_marth1_
Smash Lord
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Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]
- Thread starter Scar
- Start date
I suggest Fox, but Falco or Jiggs or ICs might also do the trick, who knows!?
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Puff is the best for beating Sheik in terms of homosexuality and effort to learn the matchup.
You only really need to duck, Bair, B-throw --> edgehog/Bair/ledgehop Fair, and Rest mistakes/onstage poof lag. And randomly toss out Uairs if she's above you. CC F-smash/Rest her tilts and grab. Shield and WD back sometimes, or aerial out of shield if she attacks your shield with tilts/D-smash.
You only really need to duck, Bair, B-throw --> edgehog/Bair/ledgehop Fair, and Rest mistakes/onstage poof lag. And randomly toss out Uairs if she's above you. CC F-smash/Rest her tilts and grab. Shield and WD back sometimes, or aerial out of shield if she attacks your shield with tilts/D-smash.
GamerGuitarist7
Smash Champion
Roneblaster
Smash Hero
its been done. I dont remember the name of the vid, but i think it was tomacawk who posted it like 20 pages back in this thread.
his post went something like...
"You know you have bad habits when...
<link goes here>"
its on FoD, and the falcon is gentlemanning whoever it is out of every roll.
Juggleguy
Smash Grimer
I can't think of a single situation where you could up-B or usmash OoS to punish against Falco.
You can still do the Mango surprise up-B while they're sitting in their shield on a platform. Works ~99% of the time.
You can still do the Mango surprise up-B while they're sitting in their shield on a platform. Works ~99% of the time.
Can Falcon's down air be DI'd when you hit 'em on the ground? I know that depending on what part of the hitbox connects, they go straight up or off to the side. I've had a few friends claim they can but I think it's nonsense.
Proverbs
Smash Lord
^Yes you can. [Was in reference to ORLY] And yeah, until high levels of play, people don't really DI out of stomp, which probably gets them KO'ed way earlier than they need to be.
On the same note, does anyone besides me use stomp to d-smash versus fastfallers? It works pretty well starting at around 40%. I really only use it against Falco to get him off the stage, but if they miss the DI (and often even when they get the DI), you can just charge a downsmash until they're in range, and the hitbox for it is HUGE. It's nothing super-revolutionary, but just something I've never seen any Falcons incorporate, and something I think is pretty useful at times.
On the same note, does anyone besides me use stomp to d-smash versus fastfallers? It works pretty well starting at around 40%. I really only use it against Falco to get him off the stage, but if they miss the DI (and often even when they get the DI), you can just charge a downsmash until they're in range, and the hitbox for it is HUGE. It's nothing super-revolutionary, but just something I've never seen any Falcons incorporate, and something I think is pretty useful at times.
TheManaLord
Smash Hero
Dsmash has awesome knockback. I use uthrow and dair to dsmash alot
also dthrow near ledge to charge dsmash. But every1 knows that one
also dthrow near ledge to charge dsmash. But every1 knows that one
jetfour
Smash Journeyman
Dsmash is a lazy move when you don't feel like aiming a stomp or a knee. It's an acceptable option if your tech skill is rusty at the moment, but I don't find it as efficient.
My favorite use for it though is to face away from the edge when Marth is grabbing the edge. Stand far away enough so that he can't aerial you as he is getting on to the stage. if he tries to waveland or hop on, the deceptively large hitbox will knock him back off. Since your back is already to the edge, if he tries recovering higher you can bair him.
On another note, I think bair is Falcon's most underused moved. Hax uses it well, Isai was the master of bair I think. Other Falcons generally try to turn around for the knee which isn't always the best choice.
inb4 the knee is always the best choice
My favorite use for it though is to face away from the edge when Marth is grabbing the edge. Stand far away enough so that he can't aerial you as he is getting on to the stage. if he tries to waveland or hop on, the deceptively large hitbox will knock him back off. Since your back is already to the edge, if he tries recovering higher you can bair him.
On another note, I think bair is Falcon's most underused moved. Hax uses it well, Isai was the master of bair I think. Other Falcons generally try to turn around for the knee which isn't always the best choice.
inb4 the knee is always the best choice
GamerGuitarist7
Smash Champion
The knee is always the best choice.
Not. Dsmash covers Missed tech, tech in place, and tech behind all at once. Do that with a knee please.
You can't.
Dsmash is not a lazy option, it is a surefire option when you want a sure hit instead of taking a guess. Guessing with a random knee is often a wasted opportunity. If Falco is at 100, I would love to hear a better, more solid option out of a grab.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Falco's techroll is longer than normal so that down-smash usually won't cover all the options you listed
not in all cases though
down-smash covers fox pretty good
----
what i learned is that wavedash in after down-throw is the n00b way to techchase
not in all cases though
down-smash covers fox pretty good
----
what i learned is that wavedash in after down-throw is the n00b way to techchase
Roneblaster
Smash Hero
JPOBS
Smash Hero
speaking of underrated falcon moves, upair.
seriously, you can never have enough upair.
in friendlies i often forgo hitting people with knees just to upair them because i like that move better. and upairing missed techs never gets old.
and technically, knee covers even more options than dsmash because should they tech in place/no tech they get hit, and then should they tech forward/behind, you just l-cancel and grab them on reaction.
seriously, you can never have enough upair.
in friendlies i often forgo hitting people with knees just to upair them because i like that move better. and upairing missed techs never gets old.
and technically, knee covers even more options than dsmash because should they tech in place/no tech they get hit, and then should they tech forward/behind, you just l-cancel and grab them on reaction.
TheManaLord
Smash Hero
uair is not underrated. ppl love it and use the heck out of it =)
m2k loves uair. has said before how good uair is.
falcons aerials and smashes all have application, its just for a long time people were so focused on the knee nothing else really stood out. but the real matchwinner is uair. endless streams of uairs.
m2k loves uair. has said before how good uair is.
falcons aerials and smashes all have application, its just for a long time people were so focused on the knee nothing else really stood out. but the real matchwinner is uair. endless streams of uairs.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
tru, i didnt mean upair combos though. i meant more uncoventional stuff.
like upairing missed techs
or upair spiking spacies recovery ganon-style.
or instead of knee edgeguarding, weak knee->upair because its more lolz.
like upairing missed techs
or upair spiking spacies recovery ganon-style.
or instead of knee edgeguarding, weak knee->upair because its more lolz.
Falco's techroll is very slightly longer. It's mostly mental.
It will always cover all of those options if you learn the distance you must be from them. Mathematically, it has to work out. Usually, when you dthrow a spacie or falcon, they will land a bit too far away, so you will have to walk just a little bit while they are in the air, then cstick down right as they touch the ground. In order for it to work, they need to be imbetween his calf and a few inches past his foot. If they are there, and you cstick down at the right time, all 3 options will always be covered.
https://lameschool.com/.i/891144Oi8...XMvaW1nNjg3LzgxMTMvZmFsY29kc21hc2hscS5naWY_3D
This is for ganon, but falcon's dsmash is similar enough to have very minor differences that you can adjust to.
TheManaLord
Smash Hero
the clod zero is the most epic edgeugard ever <3
LOLL if this was true everyone would do it and nothing else because it would be basically unbeatable.
You are right in saying that you can sometimes get the grab on reaction, but in actuality, you weren't covering all options. You can space the knee to be able to get either tech towards or away, but not both.
However, you can cover both techrolls if you knee early for the missed tech, but then you won't be able to cover the tech in place.
D
Deleted member
Guest
I suppose although I use it on a pokemon stadium like platform so i get a guaranteed payoff or the edge
I'd rather do an option though that allows me to stay somewhat aggressive if I miss with a tech in place knee like follow them with a n-air
if they like to up-tilt after the tech away or inside then next time that happens i'll wait for the up-tilt and do something
---
you can sort of do the knee in place run after grab but it works best on fox
if you want to try it on falco his slightly longer tech roll lets him spotdodge, roll away, up-tilt shine
if you go for the run after the knee in place and they tech away the #1 thing i check for is if the opponent is a nub spot dodger and i knee in place as i run up to him. If he likes to up-tilt you can space a tiny bit and still hit him with a knee. If you space correctly, your only "bad" payoff is you hit his shield and if you space that knee and fast-fall l-cancel perfectly and nobody gets hurt
and still then you can gentlemen his shield and that still requires good spacing so he doesn't shield grab or shine out of shield
if a falcon gentlemens a shield and is too close, there is absolutely nothing he can do to avoid a shield grab
if you think he might shield grab then you should rapid jab or simply not do the gentlemen at all. Some people wait for the gentlemen to get that grab
Dynamism?
Smash Champion
Why not just aim for a missed tech with Uair and grab the tech in place?
Or just Uair everything, no grabbing.
UAIR!
Or just Uair everything, no grabbing.
UAIR!
tubes
Smash Ace
I demand Isai vids!
JPOBS
Smash Hero
ya i usually knee early for the miss tech and then DD so that if they tech'd away/behind then you can get them 100% with a running jc grab.
A good thing to do vs tech in place is instead of trying to punish it directly, you can DD right in their face and most spacies will either shine or spotdodge in fear of being grabbed, and you just do one extra DD and then **** their nuts.
so its like
1) knee early to get the no tech
2a) DD -> run grab if they tech'd in a direction
2b)DD -> extra DD to fake them into gut reaction spotdodge -> ****
not fool-proof but its works a lot
falcon is fun.
edit: s2j ninja'd the hell outta me
seriously, playing friendlies using only upair is like the funniest thing ever, try it
ETWIST51294
Smash Hero
Just got un-banned. :D Yay
Shiz was in WC? Isai is actually trying to get back into Melee? I thought he would quit after his second tourny. Glad he didn't. =D
Shiz was in WC? Isai is actually trying to get back into Melee? I thought he would quit after his second tourny. Glad he didn't. =D
shiz was there because of the good player fund.
ETWIST51294
Smash Hero
Ahhhh, I haven't been keepin up with that.
Roneblaster
Smash Hero
quit getting banned, scrub
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Come back to MD and play me!!
jetfour
Smash Journeyman
I mostly agree with s2j's post. I'd go more in-depth but I'm going to sleep.
P.S. If you scream Isai before you do a set, you'll do twice as good. Try it.
P.S. If you scream Isai before you do a set, you'll do twice as good. Try it.
How loud of a scream are we talking about here?
like a decent shout? or top of the lungs status?
either way, thanks for the tip, jet4. im definitely trying that %@#& out! =D
can you guys go over recovery options from the ledge? (let's say on FD)
iono, but lately, ive been playing average skilled foxes/falcos/sheiks and as soon as I get knocked off and DJ onto the ledge, what the other guy will do is they'll immediately start spamming SH/FJ/DJ Bair (fox/falco) dair(falco) and fair (sheik) just outside my ledgehop uair range, or at most it'll be a trade if it connects.
Even though it's hard to exploit, This strat strikes me as a bit ******** cause, imo, it's dumb to ever do something in a manner that advertises what youre going to do to your opponent (i.e, when fox/falco just sits there with their backs facing you, making it obvious theyre looking to time an utilt'ing; although, that tactic is a lot easier to exploit).
Is what theyre doing as bad as I think it is?
What I end up doing most of the time is rolling on (if <100)or just wavelanding in place right on the edge.
Am I not timing my ledgehop uairs correctly? Either to hit them or to retain my invincibility frames?
Is there a better option?
like a decent shout? or top of the lungs status?
either way, thanks for the tip, jet4. im definitely trying that %@#& out! =D
can you guys go over recovery options from the ledge? (let's say on FD)
iono, but lately, ive been playing average skilled foxes/falcos/sheiks and as soon as I get knocked off and DJ onto the ledge, what the other guy will do is they'll immediately start spamming SH/FJ/DJ Bair (fox/falco) dair(falco) and fair (sheik) just outside my ledgehop uair range, or at most it'll be a trade if it connects.
Even though it's hard to exploit, This strat strikes me as a bit ******** cause, imo, it's dumb to ever do something in a manner that advertises what youre going to do to your opponent (i.e, when fox/falco just sits there with their backs facing you, making it obvious theyre looking to time an utilt'ing; although, that tactic is a lot easier to exploit).
Is what theyre doing as bad as I think it is?
What I end up doing most of the time is rolling on (if <100)or just wavelanding in place right on the edge.
Am I not timing my ledgehop uairs correctly? Either to hit them or to retain my invincibility frames?
Is there a better option?
D
Deleted member
Guest
There is no "best" option but always attacking from the edge will lead to trouble
thats almost every falcon mains, including mine's, bad habit but hitting a super late up-air from the edge or a n-air is too good
a good mixup is clodzero---> waveland--> buffer roll
thats almost every falcon mains, including mine's, bad habit but hitting a super late up-air from the edge or a n-air is too good
a good mixup is clodzero---> waveland--> buffer roll
MarsFool!
Smash Lord
Dont try to trade with higher tiers, C falcon is the best I dont have anything broken character in the game. If they are spamming one move, you should first learn to bait the response, then a technical answer.
You may want to consider how long it takes you to come back up with an aerial, U air is cool and Imma let you finish but Nair is a way better idea especially since it hits twice (usually high and low if spaced right).
Dropping down then jumping up again against foxes that are slow to shine spike helps run their patience down, sheik will probably dsmash (so will peach if she thinks youll get hit with it) or fair so be sure to drop pretty quickly and jump quickly, falco you have to waveland into him if he lasers and if he dairs, just roll on move your shield up and roll behind him then take off running just watch out for lasers to the back of the head, if he shines immediately after the dair just keep your shield up and roll behind run.
>100 I recommend trying the method I mention below + air dodging in a horizontal direction onto stages like FD, but lets say FoD Id try to go in an upward slanted angle onto the closest corner of a platform.
You can also try letting go of the ledge by hitting back, jumping backwards then immediately holding the control stick forwards so you still move forward.
Also if you get them to whiff You can always try some crazy stuff like ledge hop reverse knee/regular knee/stomp combo @_@
*Last Edit* If you get the waveland, jab if they are close enough.
nice ideas
I will definitely try to WL buffer roll and the airdoge in (airdoge diagonally for FoD sounds amazing)
one mor thing, you say to drop back and jump forwards
is that JUST to bait an attack? or is it better to do than dropping fast and quickly hitting X/Y to jump/sweetspot?
I will definitely try to WL buffer roll and the airdoge in (airdoge diagonally for FoD sounds amazing)
one mor thing, you say to drop back and jump forwards
is that JUST to bait an attack? or is it better to do than dropping fast and quickly hitting X/Y to jump/sweetspot?
MarsFool!
Smash Lord
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBDeFphtW6E for nair use
You want to let go> jump +backwards on stick, right at the beginning of the flip hit forward so you do a backflip going forward
I know how to reset
just not the purpose of that particular method, or the benefit it gets over FF'ing n jumping for a sweet spot. . . .
it seems a lot slower
edit: watched that vid again, and yeah, nair is too good! thanks for the link
I usually have problems ledgehopping that high in the moment to be able to get that far with it though. . .
and most of the time I tend to always start with a reset and I guess that gives my opponent time to get situated to start spamming bairs, so I'll need to stop doing that all the time
never the less, things to work on
just not the purpose of that particular method, or the benefit it gets over FF'ing n jumping for a sweet spot. . . .
it seems a lot slower
edit: watched that vid again, and yeah, nair is too good! thanks for the link
I usually have problems ledgehopping that high in the moment to be able to get that far with it though. . .
and most of the time I tend to always start with a reset and I guess that gives my opponent time to get situated to start spamming bairs, so I'll need to stop doing that all the time
never the less, things to work on
jetfour
Smash Journeyman
I played like 3 hours of of Falcon dittos with GG7 yesterday, that **** never gets old. Until he switched to spacies. You guys should all give him **** for not staying loyal to Douglas.
Getting up from the edge mixup: edge hop and upB right into them if they're over 80% ish. It's good if they are shieldgrabbers. If they're below that they'll recover in time to edgeguard you though :/
Getting up from the edge mixup: edge hop and upB right into them if they're over 80% ish. It's good if they are shieldgrabbers. If they're below that they'll recover in time to edgeguard you though :/
MarsFool!
Smash Lord
Whoops meant to say try the backwards jump thing against dair happy falcos and shine happy foxes. Its 9/10 waiting for them to let up the pressure or just plain miss.