Scar on the Melee vs Brawl debate: What does competitive really mean?

[thumbswayup]

I wish I knew how to quit you.

It's nobody's business but ours.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

No No No No No.



We Will Not Have Brokeback Mountain In This Thread!!!

 

[-Wolfy-]

+10 homosexual points for this thread.

 

[Fletch]

Brawl isn't going to change. What you see now in the competitive scene will pretty much go unchanged (while more than likely getting gayer) and will eventually die and everyone will go back to Melee and live happily ever after. The End.

Fixed

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Once again, lol fletch.

 

[LavisFiend]

I am still pissed that they locked my thread about how Smash 4 mechanics need to change.

They told me to post it in the official ssb4 thread.

It would be pointless to do it then, because not many people would see it.

Sometimes I fear for this board.

 

[-Wolfy-]

It intrigues me that you actually came in contact with a mod. The only mod I've seen or talked to at all has been Cashed and ALTF4Warrior and only because we're part of team smashboards.

Smash boards is lawless these days.

 

[LavisFiend]

It just seems completely rude to do that.

I mean ****, the normal content alone in general brawl discussion is repeats of older material.

I truly think they are just trying to censor me. =(

 

[-Wolfy-]

LOL they finally got rid of the wavecheeting thread. i cant believe i didnt get slapped with infractions for that one.

 

[LOL_Master]

infractions=scrubs

 

[-Wolfy-]

I got one from Azua a while back. Easily the sexiest infraction I have.

 

[starL33T]

Pretty much, “competitive” pretty much means that.
1- you think you are pro and u wanna be, so u turn off items, and still play like a n00b, and dance around each other, not actually attacking.

2- Never actually recovering properly, but always going for the edge, its so stupid because everyone does it when the opponent is right next to the edge anyway, so they get edge hogged due to the “hugging” technique.

3- Thinking your better than everyone who doesn’t play “competitively, well your wrong.

4- And competitive really only means you want to win, or you try really hard to become better at the game, there shouldn’t, and isn’t a definitive way of stating what someone is.

5- It also means your gonna be obsessed with trying to find stupid techniques, make a name for them after yourself and call it something Stupid, even though its not a special technique at all , but merely a part of the game which was meant to be implemented.

6- it also means that you only play on final destination, and cant cope with anything else, and are just boring.

7- you always want to create or update some dodgy as hell tier list.

A few tips, play with items, Don’t always play on final destination, have a go on warioware or someplace like that with a fun environment, DON’T try and find techniques and call them after your self, and actually attack when playing the game, and don’t always go for the edge when recovering.

Wow that felt good.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

A few tips, play with items, Don’t always play on final destination, have a go on warioware or someplace like that with a fun environment, DON’T try and find techniques and call them after your self, and actually attack when playing the game, and don’t always go for the edge when recovering.

Wow that felt good.

It's too late in the evening for this.

Somebody please give this man an STFU uppercut.

Learn to read the OP, man. Seriously.

Smooth Criminal

 

[starL33T]

It's too late in the evening for this.

Somebody please give this man an STFU uppercut.

Learn to read the OP, man. Seriously.

Smooth Criminal

your annoyed coz I'm right, not all “competitive" people are like this, but if I generalise, which I obviously I have done, take my point, that all you do!!!

eg, sunwalking, techchasing, and all that crap that is made up. samuraipanda says that tier lists shouldn't be made for at least a year, and I agree, But how many do I see rightafter eforall, well if 1 is too many, then why were there any? and play with items, they were put in the game for a reason.

end of points, shutup.

 

[Plairnkk]

you are stupid

 

[thumbswayup]

It's too ****ing late to deal with this ****. I'll bash you later scrub.

 

[starL33T]

I'll admit defeat only once there is an intelligent counter argument, not with everyone saying, "your stupid"

 

[Brownpack]

well, i think both games are equally competitive. It just depends on how you define competitive. People say Melee is more because it has more advanced techniques that aren't used by the average player. But the word compete is used to describe when people go against each other. The way i see it, competition is not really in the skill of players, but more in the race to discover more techniques and use them in the game. Kinda like having more weapons at your disposal. Still, as it was said many times, this game is still new, and when it gets as old as melee is now, we'll be able to truly decide

 

[Smooth Criminal]

your annoyed coz I'm right, not all “competitive" people are like this, but if I generalise, which I obviously I have done, take my point, that all you do!!!

eg, sunwalking, techchasing, and all that crap that is made up. samuraipanda says that tier lists shouldn't be made for at least a year, and I agree, But how many do I see rightafter eforall, well if 1 is too many, then why were there any? and play with items, they were put in the game for a reason.

end of points, shutup.

Blah, blah, blah, blah.

I'm annoyed because you didn't READ THE OP AND COMPREHEND IT. It's okay that you play with items or do whatever the hell it is you do. Nobody really cares. That's not the point of this thread.

Take your bull**** elsewhere if you're not going to contribute to the topic at hand.

Smooth Criminal

 

[thumbswayup]

Good stuff Smooth.

Let's all ignore the noob and get some sleep.

 

[starL33T]

thankyou, now thats a counter point, "wrong thread"

So I put it in the wrong thread, I'm still correct because thats all "competitive" players do.

and bugger off everyone who just said I was stupid, beucase you couldnt think if anything to positive, or infromative so say. just a bunch of whining 13 yrs here I see, not willing to take another's point, but ***** and whine once they find the oppourtunity. so to "thumbswayup" and "plairnkk" open up your mind, and STFU.

 

[KosukeKGA]

thankyou, now thats a counter point, "wrong thread"

So I put it in the wrong thread, I'm still correct because thats all "competitive" players do.

and bugger off everyone who just said I was stupid, beucase you couldnt think if anything to positive, or infromative so say. just a bunch of whining 13 yrs here I see, not willing to take another's point, but ***** and whine once they find the oppourtunity. so to "thumbswayup" and "plairnkk" open up your mind, and STFU.

 

[globiumz]

starL33T, you're a scrub, and a wrong one at that. Deal with it!

 

[Winston]

Why the hell do you want "intelligent counter-arguments" to a bunch of bull**** that you pulled out of your ***?

How are we supposed to refute extremely ignorant and baseless assertions?

Like the crap about "dancing around each other, not actually attacking"... "being stupid while recovering"...

these are just random and incorrect assumptions. YOU just think you're better than the players who are actually good, such as plairnkk.

You are so, incredibly, stupid.

 

[starL33T]

starL33T, you're a scrub, and a wrong one at that. Deal with it!

and exactly how an I a scrub?

 

[thumbswayup]

He is a troll, ignore him.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

.......****



Must......Resist......Urge.......To.......use........Shoryuken......on......noob's......chin......

 

[DarkDragoon]

and exactly how an I a scrub?

*Points at Roy Avatar*
Because you use the best person in Melee!
-DD

 

[tarmacker]

Pretty much, “competitive” pretty much means that.
1- you think you are pro and u wanna be, so u turn off items, and still play like a n00b, and dance around each other, not actually attacking.

2- Never actually recovering properly, but always going for the edge, its so stupid because everyone does it when the opponent is right next to the edge anyway, so they get edge hogged due to the “hugging” technique.

3- Thinking your better than everyone who doesn’t play “competitively, well your wrong.

4- And competitive really only means you want to win, or you try really hard to become better at the game, there shouldn’t, and isn’t a definitive way of stating what someone is.

5- It also means your gonna be obsessed with trying to find stupid techniques, make a name for them after yourself and call it something Stupid, even though its not a special technique at all , but merely a part of the game which was meant to be implemented.

6- it also means that you only play on final destination, and cant cope with anything else, and are just boring.

7- you always want to create or update some dodgy as hell tier list.

A few tips, play with items, Don’t always play on final destination, have a go on warioware or someplace like that with a fun environment, DON’T try and find techniques and call them after your self, and actually attack when playing the game, and don’t always go for the edge when recovering.

Wow that felt good.

Since I have a couple of hours before I have to go to work with nothing else to do, I'll intelligently refute all of your points.

1. You're correct in that I would like to be a "pro" because who wouldn't want to get paid to play video games, but in no way do I think I'm a pro. Because of Brawls mechanics it is more advantageous to "dance around each other, not actually attacking" because you have the upper hand while playing defensively.

2. If grabbing the edge isn't the proper way to recover what is going straight to the stage? A competent player will be able to punish you for it much easier then if you grabbed on to the edge. Also edge hogging hardly exists anymore except to those with tether recoveries since the game is so lenient in where you can grab the edge from.

3. I've never met anyone at a tournament that looks down on people who play the game they want without tournament standards, its only the other way around.

4. This dosen't even make sense. I want to win because that would increase my chances of winning the tournament, I want to get better because it would also increase my chances. Is that really all that terrible?

5. Most advanced techs are found on accident in tournament and free play and then taken somewhere else to be truly figured out/ perfected. Nobody sits at home in training mode and endlessly tries to find an advanced tech.

6. There are actually 6 "neutral stages" which are selected at random for the first match of the set, and around 15 counter picks. So tournament goers play on just about half the stages. (This is in Brawl of course, I don't remember for Melee its been to long )

7. Very few people are trying to make a tier list, the ones right now are based almost entirely (or maybe entirely, I haven't been paying attention) on tournament results. There is much more information that need to be accounted until there is a "true" tier list.

There you have it some intelligently refuted points as you wished

 

[Aesir]

Dear Smashers.

So this leet guy is basically some 4chan ****** or something right? I think so at least.

few points.

Read the OP, because judging from the quality of your post I can tell you didn't can't stress it enough how important it is to read the opening post.

First off you're being called a scrub because your arguments are just bull**** really, just attack? Why would I do that? when I can space and camp and ensure I win. As opposed to just attacking where it can go either way.

Items are bull**** they just create imbalances, we play on more stages then FD stop being dumb.

It's funny how you try to over simplify competitive gamers habits yet no ones ever heard of you, why don't we hear about you winning tourneys? Funny I mean if our habits are so simple and bad then someone of your caliber should have no problem dealing with it right? Show us up, or shut up.

A few tips, play with items, Don’t always play on final destination, have a go on warioware or someplace like that with a fun environment, DON’T try and find techniques and call them after your self, and actually attack when playing the game, and don’t always go for the edge when recovering.

 

[Zankoku]

You asked for it, starL33T.

Pretty much, “competitive” pretty much means that.
1- you think you are pro and u wanna be, so u turn off items, and still play like a n00b, and dance around each other, not actually attacking.

I hate items, but I'm usually chasing the other guy down. This is a really stupid generalization, because I'm also quite aware that I'm not a very good player right now.

2- Never actually recovering properly, but always going for the edge, its so stupid because everyone does it when the opponent is right next to the edge anyway, so they get edge hogged due to the “hugging” technique.

Actually, this is what an idiot does for recovery. Not a competitive player (though idiotic competitive players will do it too.)

3- Thinking your better than everyone who doesn’t play “competitively, well your wrong.

And you think you're better than everyone who does? Get over yourself.

4- And competitive really only means you want to win, or you try really hard to become better at the game, there shouldn’t, and isn’t a definitive way of stating what someone is.

I just want to do awesome stuff. If you find it fun to not know what you're doing and sometimes win just because the game decided you should, have fun. I strongly recommend picking up Mario Party, as well.

5- It also means your gonna be obsessed with trying to find stupid techniques, make a name for them after yourself and call it something Stupid, even though its not a special technique at all , but merely a part of the game which was meant to be implemented.

Scrubs, not competitive players. We play the game, while idiots looking for attention try to name "techniques" after themselves. Go away.

6- it also means that you only play on final destination, and cant cope with anything else, and are just boring.

Final Destination is my least favorite stage. Do you live on 4chan?

7- you always want to create or update some dodgy as hell tier list.

I like working with data and statistics. I have no idea why you wouldn't like people who do this.

A few tips, play with items, Don’t always play on final destination, have a go on warioware or someplace like that with a fun environment, DON’T try and find techniques and call them after your self, and actually attack when playing the game, and don’t always go for the edge when recovering.

Wow that felt good.

I have some advice for you.

Play the game and stop complaining about bad players.

 

[Corigames]

All I saw in all of that is competitive generalizations, misspellings, horrible grammar, and lack of experience.

Now, I haven't actually looked yet. But I'm going to assume that that person joined in 08. Remember, I haven't look yet, so I'm going to edit my post afterward to see if I was right.

Edit:
HEY, I must by psychic:
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 20

 

[DarkDragoon]

>_> I still like my response better than aesir's.
-DD

 

[Corigames]

>_> I still like my response better than aesir's.
-DD

Just so you know:

On a more serious note, I think this should be an example set forth for other newcomers to the boards. Take the time to read the OP, make sure the "knowledge" you posses is that and not yours or someone else' opinions, and don't try to bring up new, startling conversations, because, chances are, it's already been done over a thousand times.

 

[Samochan]

I'm enjoying the show here, keep it coming ^_^

 

[-Wolfy-]

I saw sunwalking and wanted to punch this kid in the face.

No more 4channers please.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

That man was a disgrace to 08 posters everywhere -_-

 

[Corigames]

That man was a disgrace to 08 posters everywhere -_-

Let me fix that:

08 posters are a disgrace everywhere -_-

 

[-Wolfy-]

08 posters are fine. I do wish they would at least do a little research before they run their mouthes off though.

When everyone assumes 08 posters are going to post unintelligently the worst thing they can do is open their mouthes and prove us right.

 

[Dream Chaser]

Competitive vs Competition

If you look it up in a dictionary, you will find a very different definition. Sometimes the dictionary is not the place to go. Words are clumsy tools we use to try to convey thoughts. We must define the word on our own.

The definition of competitive that has received the most support is the innate property of a game allowing better players to win consistently. This yields my mantra, that which I repeat over and over to prove my point.

Those who should win will win.

In response to the opening post, if you are going to compare Melee and Brawl, dont use the word competitive in the way that you are using it. It is misleading when you take into account that the word competitive makes sense in the context that you use it for, only it has a different meaning.

COMPETITIVE a. of, by, offers for, involving, competition

COMPETITION n. act of competing, by examination, in trade, ecology etc; event by which one competes

Meanings found in the concise oxford dictionary (1987).

This means that anything that involves competition is competitive. As such a game with more competitors has more competition and hence, more competitive.
So in this sense, Brawl is more competitive.

However, that is not the meaning you want. You should perhaps, make a new word for it.
Because Brawl relies on (or so I hear) less technical ability than melee. It would be adequate to simply accept that brawl is less technical in nature and leave it at that.

If you were to go further and say that one game is better than another, you have to be aware that you are moving into the territory of the opinion (which we dont seem to like, eg starL33T).

Anyway, my point is that the word competitive makes sense in the same context, but has a different meaning to the one you seem to be using. I think that either a new word should be made/used or that you simply refer to Brawl as less "technical" (which doesnt determine which is a better game).