(S.A.) Jan 2010 Reloaded 5: 10k cash, $90k prizes - preview

[Zero]

To quote:

SA's MKs must be the best in the world then. It seems nobody else has adapted this rule, even in America. You should release tutorial videos and and the like to show the world just how pro your MKs are so everyone adapts this rule.

SA antigay rule for Rocky

EDIT: I watched the video you linked, I laughed every second of it. Bum used to to justify ditching Brawl, and it was funny then. It can't be helped if there are two campy characters playing campy playstyles.

I'll respect your wishes, but I still find it silly how you discriminate against MK solo mains. I like how you didn't answer any questions about solo MK mains. Do they not exist in SA?

I'm out.

 

[Browny]

Typical debate vs you guys. It always ends in sarcasm. w/e just let that be the end of it

 

[SummonerAU]

Sarcasm? Legitimate argument tactic to emphasise points?

BANNED IN SOUTH AUSTRALIA.

 

[Ant1]

lol @ ur paint skills. U know there is a circle tool that makes it much easier. That's more of a rectangle than a circle lol.

 

[swordsaint]

It's a ******* rule.
Learn to fight Metaknight, nubs.
Stop crying.
*points at other states tournament results*
NSW - MARTH -D3 - NESS - FALCO - SNAKE - POKEMON TRAINER
MELBOURNE - DIDDY - SNAKE - GAME AND WATCH - METAKNIGHT
QUEENSLAND - METAKNIGHT (HOLY **** A SINGLE ****ING METAKNIGHT WINNING)
WA - ****ING TOON LINK - WARIO - FALCO
SA (according to YOUR records)
GANON - SONIC - LUCARIO -DK -FOX

Hardly needed. If you say your rule is causing these results in YOUR state, how do you account for the others? Develop an anti-Metaknight game and you won't be complaining. Metaknight may be broken, but he isn't so far broken as to be unbeatable now. If an MK starts camping, hey, WE HAVE ****ING PROJECTILES!!!!!

 

[Browny]

please stay out of our thread SS, you have no idea what youre talking about and your results are way off.
If you checked Reloaded 2009 finals, you would see it went like this
1(MK/Snake)
2(MK/Snake)
3(Fox)
4(MK)
5(G&W)
5(Falco)
7(MK)
7(DDD)

That tournament had the MK rule in place. Did it make that much of a difference? Since that time 2 of our latest better players use MK and a few others have switched to him. Majority of SA's top players use MK in tournament. thats no lie. we just dont allow him to dominate the hell out of everyone else, and since they will get CP'd with snake, they simply dont bother.

remember, not a single person has ever complained about the rule. we have about... 5 MK mains now, and many of our better players use him. If you dont like it, too bad. tell someone who cares. I dont like your stage list, theyre completely ********. are you going to change it because I said so? No, because people in nsw dont complain. people in SA dont complain about this rule. its that simple.

 

[Splice]

Yeah guys its their tournament, even if you want to help make some observations sure, but if they are happy with it and want to stand by it leave them alone, you have no right to tell them to change their rules. Especially if your going to be uninformed about it. I like how the person that came 3rd used Fox, he's the real winner.

 

[Zero]

I'm not understanding this stage rule at all, NSW doesn't have a centralised stage list, we piggyback the SBR. Depending on TO we might trial a new system, which I did (SMASHVILLE!)

How did someone in the top 8 only use MK when he could only use MK for one round? Please answer this question.

 

[Browny]

They used MK for the majority of their wins. many people counterpick here, very few go all one character. the mk that placed 4th (hybrid) Also used Marth, Falco, DDD, Samus, Snake and Diddy to get the other wins in his sets. So I believe his stats were something like, 7 MK wins, 2 MK loss, 1 marth/falco/DDD/samus/snake/diddy win. It makes more sense to say he went all MK (for keeping results simple to read). I have no idea who the other MK (Jaa) also used throughout the tournament

 

[Ant1]

The guy who came 3rd with Fox was Desert Eagle at his first tournament too.
I can't remember which states but some states have luigi's mansion, green greens and port town aero drive as counterpicks. Which is far more redicilous than having a semi-MK ban.

IIRC they had a MK banned tournament in the U.S. in which M2K placed 4th.

 

[Zero]

Guess what? We're not the United States. Unless someone (GO TOBY) proves me otherwise, we don't have a player as beasty as M2K. M2K isn't just good with MK, he's good at SMASH. Now although you can apply this logic to this situation, it's not that simple. So I'll again pose this hypothetical to you.

Scar comes down to SA for Reloaded. Now, we all know that Scar is a MK only main, and he is very competent at playing MK to his strengths. Now, he comes and enters Reloaded singles, and in the first bracket match, he wins the first round. No biggie, Scar is a good player. What now? He CANNOT win the next two rounds because he only plays MK competitively. The advantage is unfairly skewed to a 100:0 win ratio to the opponent, simply because he cannot play anyone else to the same level as he can play MK with.

Explain to me how this is competitive.

 

[Ant1]

Well i honestly believe that u shouldn't have 1 main in this game as it isn't world of warcraft (only old wow players would understand this)
A truely good player at smash should be competent with every character, if ur not, then too bad, get better at the game and try playing one of the 38 other characters.

 

[Browny]

Well that that would simply prove that scar is not the better player. should he deserve a win? shouldnt the better player should always win? that is why we have sets out of 3 with counterpicks etc. whoever uses their counterpicks properly and can outplay their opponent twice should win, not whoever mains the most broken character. If someone can only win with MK and has a 0:100 with every other character therefore places low, I sure as hell couldnt care less. Get better at the game like every single other entrant does who manages to place well with a wide variety of characters they can CP with.

How is this NOT competitive? Is playing against an MK every single round your definition of competitive? look at reloaded 09. the finals were an MK parade. an MK on every TV. Imagine if we had to cater for kids who can only play as MK... ugh it would be horrendous how many MK's would fill up the brackets.

 

[Zero]

So you're both saying that in order to be considered good, you must main more than one character?

Goodnight SA, I'm done with you. Using your own subjective interpretations and views as objective evidence is completely and utterly wrong. Tournaments aren't about winning with the entire cast. They're about winning. If you want to play x amount of characters to increase your chances of successfully counterpicking, go right ahead. But don't you inflict restrictions on us who want to challenge ourselves with one character. Maybe not Metaknight, but I'm sure Luke and I would be pretty pissed if you banned our characters, and let me tell you, both of our characters can do pretty gay things to others.

How about, when/if you come interstate, if you win one match, you have to pick up a character you have no tournament experience with? You'd feeling pretty fucking miffed, now wouldn't you?

 

[The_Blue_Bomber]

Well that that would simply prove that scar is not the better player. should he deserve a win? shouldnt the better player should always win? that is why we have sets out of 3 with counterpicks etc. whoever uses their counterpicks properly and can outplay their opponent twice should win, not whoever mains the most broken character. If someone can only win with MK and has a 0:100 with every other character therefore places low, I sure as hell couldnt care less. Get better at the game like every single other entrant does who manages to place well with a wide variety of characters they can CP with.

How is this NOT competitive? Is playing against an MK every single round your definition of competitive? look at reloaded 09. the finals were an MK parade. an MK on every TV. Imagine if we had to cater for kids who can only play as MK... ugh it would be horrendous how many MK's would fill up the brackets.

I wouldn't say that makes Scar the lesser player. He could have put loads of time into his MK and never played the rest of the cast. Then he has to switch because of this rule which means he loses because he hasn't played the rest of the cast. You cant just say "Well you should have played other characters too". This is a fighting game, you play as what character you want, most competitive fighting game players only have one main too. And even in Brawl too.

Does M2K have a secondary? Does Ally have a secondary? Does Anther have a secondary? Does Koskinator have a secondary? No, they put all their time into one character, their character. I really don't think we should make anyone change their character without incredibly good reasoning. And so far in SA I haven't seen incredibly good reasoning. Sure we had 4 MKs in the final. DJB and Ant, we all know you guys could have got there without choosing MK. You were just being safe (which is understandable).

Unless MK becomes incredibly dominant in SA I personally don't feel this rule is needed. We should be furthering our anti-MK game not living in fear of him.

This is just my view. I know I don't have good tournament results like you guys and you know much more about the game than I do. But I figured I would throw in my view and knowledge of other competitive fighting games.

 

[SummonerAU]

Doesn't the problem still stand though? If picking MK will get you an 'easy' win, wouldn't people still feel the pressure to pick MK? If people play smartly, the sets are just reduced to one match essentially. The one where neither of them play MK. If so, why not just outright ban him? What I'm trying to say is that the rule seems be trying to strike the middle and fails miserably. Sure, it forces other people to pick up different characters, but unless you've also altered the counterpicking system in respect to this rule, it also forces people to pick MK to get the 'easy' win. Either ban him or don't. Don't have a silly rule that only impedes players. I'm sure if the MK mains don't mind giving up one match, they wouldn't mind giving up the character. They're being forced to pick up another character anyway.

The Fox coming 3rd is a prime example that skill will overcome matchups. So, if the reason is MK is too good, get better. If it's to generate character diversity, outright ban him if it's that much of a problem. Don't have a silly halfway measure which doesn't accomplish the intentions.

It just appears you don't want MK but you don't want the stigma attached with banning a character.

 

[Browny]

ugh Zero youre hopeless. twisting words and sarcasm is so weak.
no one ever talked about being good. but If you want to place well, you better be able to use more than METAKNIGHT. I love it how you conviniently overlook the fact that MK still dominated reloaded with the rule in place. Why should we allow MK to be used freely, when hes already doing that. As far as I know, no results in australia history have had a top8 with 4 MK's. Lets just let everyone use MK all day and have 6 of top 8 be MK... fun for all. Im sure everyone going to genesis is about to find out how fun it will be.

Summoner youre missing the point completely...
"it also forces people to pick MK to get the 'easy' win"
Not putting the rule in place forces people to use MK to get the easy WINS, as in plural.
we have the option of giving the player either 1 easy win, or 2.

This isnt the case in other states where very few top players use MK. having 4/top8 use him suddenly begins to get out of hand and the only way to win is to be better, or pick MK. what do you think people are going to do. Instead of every single match being an MK bracket stop, at least it forces character diversity.

Outright banning him is out of the question as its completely unfair to people who main him. Everyone who does main him is fine with the rule. remember you can still use him twice per set if u lose the first. If we dont impose this soft-ban on him, I bet reloaded 2010 is going to look a lot like some of these NJ results you see with every second match involving MK's

 

[The_Blue_Bomber]

And... My post is ignored... =/

I wouldn't say that makes Scar the lesser player. He could have put loads of time into his MK and never played the rest of the cast. Then he has to switch because of this rule which means he loses because he hasn't played the rest of the cast. You cant just say "Well you should have played other characters too". This is a fighting game, you play as what character you want, most competitive fighting game players only have one main too. And even in Brawl too.

Does M2K have a secondary? Does Ally have a secondary? Does Anther have a secondary? Does Koskinator have a secondary? No, they put all their time into one character, their character. I really don't think we should make anyone change their character without incredibly good reasoning. And so far in SA I haven't seen incredibly good reasoning. Sure we had 4 MKs in the final. DJB and Ant, we all know you guys could have got there without choosing MK. You were just being safe (which is understandable).

Unless MK becomes incredibly dominant in SA I personally don't feel this rule is needed. We should be furthering our anti-MK game not living in fear of him.

This is just my view. I know I don't have good tournament results like you guys and you know much more about the game than I do. But I figured I would throw in my view and knowledge of other competitive fighting games.

 

[Zero]

Why shouldn't we allow MK to be used freely?

There is not a drop of sarcasm in my posts.

A truely good player at smash should be competent with every character, if ur not, then too bad, get better at the game and try playing one of the 38 other characters.

whoever uses their counterpicks properly and can outplay their opponent twice should win, not whoever mains the most broken character.

If someone can only win with MK and has a 0:100 with every other character therefore places low, I sure as hell couldnt care less. Get better at the game like every single other entrant does who manages to place well with a wide variety of characters they can CP with.

Is playing against an MK every single round your definition of competitive? look at reloaded 09. the finals were an MK parade. an MK on every TV. Imagine if we had to cater for kids who can only play as MK... ugh it would be horrendous how many MK's would fill up the brackets.

Your arguments are COMPLETELY subjective. You "couldn't care less" about someone not winning with their main because they couldn't play with a character they don't even play. Competition isn't about winning with the highest array of characters. It's about winning. Full stop.

Why do you have to play more than Metaknight? You've pretty much imposed this on your state because of your own opinions of competition. You yourself are the cause of this mentality. Not the people who don't want to learn. Not the people who abuse MK. You say that this helps develop a more healthy casual-oriented scene. I say that that' scomplete ********. Who said learning two characters is a casual option. Learning two is an option a sizeable majority of HARDCORE players reject.

If you think I was twisting words, then you should read your own posts again.

All in all, I think you should just outright ban MK, for all of the reasons Summoner pointed out.

EDIT: So you think that completely banning MK, thus disallowing all use of MK, is more unfair to MK mains than only allowing them to use him for one match of a set of (definite) three? There is a massive hole on your logic.

@BlueBomber: You were bottom paged, just quote it back to the fresh page and it'll get a response. I'll edit it in when I read it.

I totally agree with you. It's not up to the TO to decide whether or not you second someone, unless they have a certain character banned. Which they evidently don't.

 

[EverAlert]

Well i honestly believe that u shouldn't have 1 main ... A truely good player at smash should be competent with every character

Well that that would simply prove that scar is not the better player. ... Get better at the game like every single other entrant does who manages to place well with a wide variety of characters ... How is this NOT competitive? Is playing against an MK every single round your definition of competitive? ... Imagine if we had to cater for kids who can only play as MK...

You seem to be ignoring (or writing off, which is worse) the fact that there is a whole other layer of strategy to competition than just what happens within the game. The counterpicking system exists in order to compliment that layer; banning MK does not assist the CP system, it ****s on it for prejudice against players of a particular character. Because you ban/limit MK, you turn counterpicking into a mindless selection of characters designed to stack against the MK player. And your justification is that people should learn more than one character? Stop forcing your own personal philosophies onto others.

How IS that competitive? You're banning/limiting a character specifically because you don't like fighting that character/seeing that character, that is the most complete bull **** I have ever heard. The better player is not the one who plays more characters or whatever, but the one who does WHAT IS NEEDED IN ORDER TO WIN.

The reason USA hasn't banned him is because he is not that broken. All I hear in this thread is

WAH WAH WAH, I DON'T LIKE FIGHTING META KNIGHT SO I'M GONNA BAN HIM.

Learn some real competitivity, scrubs.

 

[Browny]

Blue the mk rule indeed isnt needed for the SG tournaments but i really dont want what happened at reloaded 09 to happen again. Now with Jamie switching to MK, apollo and W150 have pulled him out in tourney and a few other players using him I can just imagine that when money is on the line, its going to get bad.

It can probably go for now but I really dont want our major for 2010 for everyone else to be non stop MK after MK after MK. the rate at which people are beginning to use him is increasing.

@ E-alert have you ever faced brackets that go
MK
MK
MK
MK

thats what happened to some people at reloaded 09. its easy to say WAHHH when it hasnt happened to you.

also for the record i am not the TO for this state and i didnt come up with this rule lol. I just dont want people to come here oos and have to put up with MK gayness all day @ hate the tournament

 

[SummonerAU]

Summoner youre missing the point completely...
"it also forces people to pick MK to get the 'easy' win"
Not putting the rule in place forces people to use MK to get the easy WINS, as in plural.
we have the option of giving the player either 1 easy win, or 2.

Outright banning him is out of the question as its completely unfair to people who main him. remember you can still use him twice per set if u lose the first. If we dont impose this soft-ban on him, I bet reloaded 2010 is going to look a lot like some of these NJ results you see.

completely unfair to people who main him
You're already doing that now with the current rule. Let's put another hypothetical situation in which has the current rule in place.

A MK wins the first match. Goes to his secondary and wins the next. This shall be called situation A.

A MK wins the first match. Goes to his secondary and loses. He then counterpicks and wins with his secondary. Situation B

A MK loses the first match. Wins the second with MK. Loses the third without MK. Situation C.

Situation A: Being able to play MK would NOT have changed the outcome as the player wins with the secondary on a COUNTERPICKED level.

Situation B: Playing MK MIGHT have altered the outcome. It doesn't matter as the player wins with a counterpick

Situation C: Opponent has a huge advantage going into the second match. Not only do they get the counterpick, they also play the person's secondary. This is completely UNFAIR to the MK main.

Out of all of these situations, nothing changes with or without MK. Therefore, banning MK would be the most logical outcome as it promotes more 'character diversity'.

While is can be argued that this would stop SA developing antiMK skills, wouldn't this be better improved without the MK rule?

 

[Zero]

I don't think it'll happen at Reloaded 2010, my projected list is full of Marth, Wolf, Snake, IC, Diddy, Jigglypuff, Wario and Falco. gg OoS

@dJB: In all honesty, bring the MK's on. I'm confident that we all feel this way. If we get knocked out early, gg, but that's the way of the game.

 

[Browny]

Yeah and ive played vs many of those people when I went to melb for stigma, and considering I lose to the MK's here, im quite sure our MK's (and Olimar... **** Metanova is too good) can take them no problems. Also your results are skewed because of how few people main MK over there.. if there were a lot more, people would CP MK with MK more often. Id like to see if they would stay as those characters if repeatedly faced with MK after MK.

summoner youre right,
"Out of all of these situations, nothing changes with or without MK."
Except we allow the MK mainer to play their favourite character in tournament instead of banning them... a big difference. If you lose situation C with MK, then maybe you dont deserve to progress through that bracket?

The mk rule may not be required for the monthlies but I still think it will be needed for the big ones, lest what happened at 09 happen again on a worse scale

 

[Zero]

Answer my question please.

PS: Olmiar will get 4th on the tier list when ZSS gets S tier.

PPS: Who are you to say they don't deserve it when you stop them from using their main? ffs

never

 

[EverAlert]

@ E-alert have you ever faced brackets that go
MK
MK
MK
MK

thats what happened to some people at reloaded 09. its easy to say WAHHH when it hasnt happened to you.

also for the record i am not the TO for this state and i didnt come up with this rule lol. I just dont want people to come here oos and have to put up with MK gayness all day @ hate the tournament

Yes I have faced brackets that go like that, I've even seen a top 8 that had 7 MKs and an Olimar. If you'd kindly stop making assumptions about people, you'd realise we're FAR more experienced than you think, and probably a helluva lot more experienced than you to begin with. Yes, I can easily say WAHHH when it has happened to me, you judgemental prick.

And just an FYI, you are the only state who even gives a **** about this MK business, you are not going to please any OOSers with this ridiculous rule.

 

[Ant1]

I think we should just remove the semi-mk ban. Let the baby have his bottle as they say.

If you'd kindly stop making assumptions about people, you'd realise we're FAR more experienced than you think, and probably a helluva lot more experienced than you to begin with. Yes, I can easily say WAHHH when it has happened to me, you judgemental prick.

So u tell him to stop making assumptions and then go and make a huge one yourself?

 

[Browny]

Answer my question please.

Do you mean 'why shouldnt we allow mk to be used freely?'
Because I dont want Reloaded to do what it did this year. Having people lose one match and then go straight to MK is very annoying, Ive done it to people myself too. But when that decision extends beyond the single MK win and you lose a set to it its infuriating. I really wouldnt want Oos people to come here only to get repeated MK's in the brackets. sure you might still beat them but its not longer a good experience. whe i went to melb it was fun coz it was like link, marth, fox, falco, fox, diddy, marth marth. Reloaded went like MK, G&W, MK, MK for some people. Should mk still be used freely when people get brackets like that? way to make people hate brawl.

PS: Olmiar will get 4th on the tier list when ZSS gets S tier.

Olimar 4th? I called it first!
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=7778123#post7778123

PPS: Who are you to say they don't deserve it when you stop them from using their main? ffs

Play in a bracket where it goes MK, MK, MK then tell me what you think

 

[Zero]

No, this question, or rather, logic paradox, that you've happily ignored for three pages.

So you think that completely banning MK, thus disallowing all use of MK, is more unfair to MK mains than only allowing them to use him for one match of a set of (definite) three?

 

[Browny]

Um yes... and like ive also said, there are about 5 MK mains here. All of them are fine with the rule and they say its fair and better than an outright ban.

Yes I have faced brackets that go like that, I've even seen a top 8 that had 7 MKs and an Olimar.

Always great

According to shayas results, Only 3 tournaments in aussie history have had 4 MK's used in the top 8. Being may stigma-b, reloaded 09 and a perth tournament. none have ever had 5 or more.

Man I really should have used MK in singles when I went to melb lol. I didnt want to make Shaya hate me though

 

[EverAlert]

So u tell him to stop making assumptions and then go and make a huge one yourself?

If that is all you can complain about, then I am satisfied. btw, it is hardly an assumption, it is a well-established fact that east coast states have a massive lead on experience than the rest of Australia. But whatever, I'm done.

According to shayas results, Only 3 tournaments in aussie history have had 4 MK's used in the top 8. Being may stigma-b, reloaded 09 and a perth tournament. none have ever had 5 or more

If you actually read the thread he quite clearly states that the rankings are from a certain point onward, it is by no means all Australian tournaments. Anyone who went to Revolution can verify what I said; that tournament in general was overtaken by MK players.

 

[Browny]

tournaments pre-august were when people didnt even know what approach stuffing or planking was

PLEASE be done i cant be here all night arguing. ima just get this closed for now... reloaded is a mile away. And this argument really does not belong in this thread, its for the SG website.

 

[EverAlert]

To be fair, back then MK was considered to be even more broken than he is now.

Also, verification is nice:

(li)[ŚнΆύи](F) says:
*"Yes I have faced brackets that go like that, I've even seen a top 8 that had 7 MKs and an Olimar." ?
EA says:
*revolution. >.>
*at least to the best of my memory
*there was certainly more than 4, anyway
(li)[ŚнΆύи](F) says:
*jaz placed with sonic/kirby
*youre wrong :D
*it was like 6mks though

So, slightly mistaken (it WAS a long *** time ago), but the point still remains.

Anyway, yes, I really am done; I'm not exactly free to argue this all night myself.

 

[The_Wookie]

Hi guys,

Im the Head Administator and Founder of Reloaded. I apologise for the errors of the past Reloadeds.
We dont treat the smash community with contempt. If we didnt care, I wouldnt chase experienced smash admins to run the competition with rules and stuff, we'd just let it go free for all.

The total cash prize pool for this year is $10,000 - $650 of which will go directly to smash ($150 in the 1v1, and $500 for the 2v2). Im hoping to bring that total up to $1000 people. CSS gets nearly 40 teams at Reloaded (almost 200 players) which is why it has always had more cash available to it. The Halo communityturns up in droves.

No comps this year will be run after 2am, and none will start after 1am.

Rules for this years Smash competitions at Reloaded have not been finalised, indeed the admin team for the event has not been finalised yet. You can discuss any of these issues either here (ill bookmark it for future reference) or preferably on the Reloaded forums (www.reloadedlan.org).

 

[Ant1]

How did wookie find out about this site i wonder.
Man i had a perfect cell quote and everything... when will i ever get to use it
Oh and thanks fo ruining my thread guys.

 

[Browny]

jesus ch**st no one reply to that **** ffs i gotta kick his ***

If I cant get ant banned for stupidity can everyone please just put him on the ignore list. it will save soooo many flame wars and all sorts of cr*p on these forums.

 

[The_Wookie]

How did wookie find out about this site i wonder.
Man i had a perfect cell quote and everything... when will i ever get to use it
Oh and thanks fo ruining my thread guys.

When i run out of other stuff to do i take a look around the internet for stuff being said about my events. I saw the concerns expressed earlier in the thread, and thought Id take the time to respond. Im not here for flame wars, just the facts that i can give to try to assuage the legitimate concerns expressed earlier on.

Thanks

 

[Jamage]

completely unfair to people who main him

Thats totally wrong its people who main MK who are completely unfair to the rest of us.

Holy **** 11 pages and im not reading them all. Ill be there running or helping run the brawl comps. Should be awesome.

 

[Browny]

O lol... I do not condone the above comment

 

[swordsaint]

By semi-banning Metaknight, aren't you telling everyone to go seconary Snake? Way to give Snake uses the edge on everyone else.