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Let's just say that nobody is guaranteed whatsoever and expectations will lead to disappointment.
I suppose you're right, saying someone is guaranteed is a rather bold statement. So considering how much you guys like ranking things and how much I like probability, I'll just put it this way:

Probability of getting in:
A:
-Palutena 97.9%
-Chrom 97.0%
-Takamaru 93.2%
-Little Mac 93.1%

B:
-Ridley 86.2%
-K.Rool 84.7%
-Gen 6 Pkmn 80.4%

Keep in mind these are just my personal guesses and the percentiles are just arbitrary numbers used to compare characters. I'm just pulling them out of my *** as this is actually impossible to accurately measure.

Btw, I just thought up a Little Mac moveset I think you guys are gonna love. I'm actually quite excited for it myself.

:phone:
 

Diddy Kong

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Out of all those characters, I would only really 'want' Chrom. I haven't played the games of all of those characters, so no way I'm an 'actual fan' of them, but just see those 4 as the most likely to make it at this point. Always did though... Before, people would just cuss me for wanting Chrom, calling me a bandwagonist and whatnot. Guess where those people are now? :rolleyes:

If I get a 3DS, Fire Emblem will be the very first thing I'll buy from it. Kid Icarus a second perhaps, after that, maybe Pokemon Y.

Expectations lead to dissapointment is a favorite quote of mine as well, if it comes to Smash speculation at least. But am keeping that in mind for characters as Mewtwo, King K.Rool, Ridley, Impa... And Blastoise. :009:

Doing % lists myself now:

1) Little Mac 90%
2) Palutena 88%
3) Takamaru 84%
4) Chrom 83%
 

ChronoBound

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Let's just say that nobody is guaranteed whatsoever and expectations will lead to disappointment.
Yeah. I especially would not throw Little Mac and especially Chrom in the guaranteed pile. Little Mac could be kept out due to a lack of move diversity and exclusive Western popularity, while there generally seems to be little interest in Chrom and to many people all over the world (both Japan and the West) he seems redundant and a retread (even worse than Zoroark was compared to Lucario).
 

Diddy Kong

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Little Mac. Really, if he doesn't make it in at this point, who will? I see him and Palutena as the most likely, by far.
 

Yomi's Biggest Fan

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If all else fails, they might as well resort to the 12 DLC pattern like Capcom, but free or cheap. I can see this as an alternative IF they fail to put Mewtwo or Roy in the main roster. I have more faith in Nintendo with this method more so than Cashcom, that's for sure.

:phone:
 

ChronoBound

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If all else fails, they might as well resort to the 12 DLC pattern like Capcom, but free or cheap. I can see this as an alternative IF they fail to put Mewtwo or Roy in the main roster. I have more faith in Nintendo with this method more so than Cashcom, that's for sure.

:phone:
When Capom throws in the DLC characters, they are usually "on-disc". Tekken Tag Tournament 2 did this too.

There are very few fighters in which the DLC characters are not already on the game's disc.
 

Dark Phazon

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Seems like Sakurai is working how on different aspects of the game. Lets just hope its diversity/movesets/psychics.

And not some huge cheesy new gimmick hes putting a lotta work into and taking a gamble hoping the public takes a massive liking in it and him thinking it will revolutionise/change the direction/thoughts of the series in a posititve way...

This is what im really scared of..

Because we all know Nintendo are all about new ideas..i just hope they know...Ughh...the thoughts are absoultly terrible...

I seriously hope that when he meant change he means.

Improved in depth story not just a cheesy movie scene drama.

more diverse movesets and better psychics.

I think he said that because when we hear ''new smash inbound'' pretty much more chars and better grapichs is given like ABC, 123. We know its gonna happen.

So he could be just saying if you think about it in a positive way that not only is the game gonna ofc have those stuff but also the stuff i mentioned above! basicly stating that ''your gonna get more this time then ths guarntee of new chars/stages''

So it depends how you view it negative or posititve we dont know nothing untill more info comes through about just what new/different stuff hes doing to this Smash compared to the others.

Above all it could make or brake the game and imo will ultimately decide its fate...its defo the most important aspect of the game.

You could have 100 new chars and stages but if the Gameplay sucks or is changed in way that sucks then its a crap game end of.

:phone:
 

TheCreator

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Im expecting another punch-out game to come out in 2014, depending on wether or not its before smash, really doesnt matter whatsoever. lol I beleive mac is a shoe in.
Ridley too, the only clear choice for another metroid rep which is so clearly deserved.
King K. Rool.....eeehh.....the only thing with him is. Its been a while. Itd be a stretch.
Takamaru...nobodys given me a firm reason why he is to be considered certain yet. But I do see him likely.
Paper mario seems pretty likely to me. A non mario mario character has been planned for every smash past 64, except its been dr. mario.
Now tell me, why include dr. mario, when hes outdated and paper mario continues to make new games?
I wonder wtf retro studios is working on.


Earthbound won't get another rep.
 

Diddy Kong

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Mother will get a new game, or remake, or so I've read.

And I actually have my doubts about K.Rool to... He's my #1 most wanted, shared with Mewtwo, but I find K.Rool more likely than Ridley.

:phone:
 

ChronoBound

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I remember just as recently as 2010 people were thinking a second playable F-Zero character was a guarantee. I guess as the GBA/GCN F-Zero games slip from memory (we are less than a year away from F-Zero GX being 10 years old), the case for a new F-Zero character becomes more difficult.

As for Dr. Mario, he is not outdated. He had two new games released since Brawl (Dr. Mario Online RX and Dr. Mario Express). They both sold well on WiiWare and DSiWare.
 

TheCreator

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Mother will get a new game, or remake, or so I've read.

And I actually have my doubts about K.Rool to... He's my #1 most wanted, shared with Mewtwo, but I find K.Rool more likely than Ridley.

:phone:
Well whereas metroid has a bunch of games out with Ridley in them with tons of sales brought in, and Ridley is the only possible metroid rep, and metroid highly needs a rep, and it all makes sense and so on and so on.....King K. Rool hasnt been in a game since about two systems ago. While it doesnt hurt his chances alot, I'd say ridley is pretty shoe in while k. rool is just likely.
 

TheCreator

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I remember just as recently as 2010 people were thinking a second playable F-Zero character was a guarantee. I guess as the GBA/GCN F-Zero games slip from memory (we are less than a year away from F-Zero GX being 10 years old), the case for a new F-Zero character becomes more difficult.

As for Dr. Mario, he is not outdated. He had two new games released since Brawl (Dr. Mario Online RX and Dr. Mario Express). They both sold well on WiiWare and DSiWare.
They were ware games. And I didn't even know they existed. Whats that say to paper mario's sales and popularity?
 

ChronoBound

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Well whereas metroid has a bunch of games out with Ridley in them with tons of sales brought in, and Ridley is the only possible metroid rep, and metroid highly needs a rep, and it all makes sense and so on and so on.....King K. Rool hasnt been in a game since about two systems ago. While it doesnt hurt his chances alot, I'd say ridley is pretty shoe in while k. rool is just likely.
K. Rool's last appearance in a game was Mario Super Sluggers (released a few months after Brawl). His last appearance in a DK game though was in 2007. So he did not disappear two generations ago, however, we are closing in on a half decade since his last game appearance.
 

TheCreator

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K. Rool's last appearance in a game was Mario Super Sluggers (released a few months after Brawl). His last appearance in a DK game though was in 2007. So he did not disappear two generations ago, however, we are closing in on a half decade since his last game appearance.
Oh Yeah!! I forgot about super sluggers. If only DKC:R would have starred K. Rool, this would be a whole lot easier.
 

ChronoBound

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I personally think it would be nice if doc came back in sm4sh but im pretty sure it probably wont happen:c
Well, people were expecting Dr. Mario to be cut, but it turned out that Sakurai was considering him as the fifth Mario character for Brawl over anyone else.

I think Dr. Mario, although he is not popularly requested to return, at least has the legacy of being a playable character in Melee, which could be enough to bring him back if Sakurai is feeling "why not bring everyone back?". I mean if he were to bring back Mewtwo, Roy, and Pichu, it would be odd to leave Dr. Mario as the only character out.

However, I think Dr. Mario will happen as either a costume or a DLC character (Doc would be very feasible as DLC character since no new voice files would have to be made for him).
 

TheCreator

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Well, people were expecting Dr. Mario to be cut, but it turned out that Sakurai was considering him as the fifth Mario character for Brawl over anyone else.

I think Dr. Mario, although he is not popularly requested to return, at least has the legacy of being a playable character in Melee, which could be enough to bring him back if Sakurai is feeling "why not bring everyone back?". I mean if he were to bring back Mewtwo, Roy, and Pichu, it would be odd to leave Dr. Mario as the only character out.

However, I think Dr. Mario will happen as either a costume or a DLC character (Doc would be very feasible as DLC character since no new voice files would have to be made for him).
You didn't mention Young Link. Because young link was replaced by toon link, a newer version of link with more games, right?
Well im sure dr. mario will succumb to paper mario for this reason.
 

ChronoBound

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You didn't mention Young Link. Because young link was replaced by toon link, a newer version of link with more games, right?
Well im sure dr. mario will succumb to paper mario for this reason.
Toon Link played similar to Young Link. Paper Mario and Dr. Mario would be radically different. One would definitely be an unique character, while the other would most likely come back as simply a luigi-fied version of Mario at best.
 

ChronoBound

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I would find Doc a bland addition if he's kept as a clone like before.
Dr. Mario at best would only be luigi-fied. However, even still, I think he would be one of the most likely characters to happen if DLC characters for Smash 4 happened. A costume (whether like overalls Wario or a character that simply shares the same slot as Mario) is also a likely possibility for Dr. Mario as well.
 

TheCreator

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Toon Link played similar to Young Link. Paper Mario and Dr. Mario would be radically different. One would definitely be an unique character, while the other would most likely come back as simply a luigi-fied version of Mario at best.
Do you beleive that sakurai will include two versions of mario?
 

ChronoBound

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Do you beleive that sakurai will include two versions of mario?
Its certainly possible. Paper Mario is one of the three most likely contenders for a Mario newcomer. Dr. Mario is also possible though much less likely (though as I said, he would be likely if DLC characters for Smash 4 happen, or he would technically get in as a costume for Mario).
 
D

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Toon Link was a younger Link that represented a split timeline as compared to the older TP Link.
THAT is why he replaced Young Link.

Paper Mario is just Mario in a different paper artstyle. Dr. Mario was an alter-ego altogether from a series that had little to do with the rest of the series other than having Mario himself (and Peach in artwork).
Also, Doc has more games.
Dr. Mario (NES)
Dr. Mario (GB)
Vs. Dr. Mario (a remake of the NES game for the arcade designed for two-player split-screen play)
Tetris & Dr. Mario (was a remake of the NES game, but had a special mode where you could Mix and Match between the two games for a challenge)
Dr. Mario 64 (Released in Japan as part of the Nintendo Puzzle Collection for Gamecube)
Dr. Mario & Puzzle League
Dr. Mario Online Rx
Dr. Mario Express

Being selected like Wario's overalls would be fine though, as long as he either retains his differences between him and regular Mario from Melee or is revamped to be Luigified (which is actually not that difficult). Same goes for Pichu.
 

TheCreator

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Toon Link was a younger Link that represented a split timeline as compared to the older TP Link.
THAT is why he replaced Young Link.

Paper Mario is just Mario in a different paper artstyle. Dr. Mario was an alter-ego altogether from a series that had little to do with the rest of the series other than having Mario himself (and Peach in artwork).
Also, Doc has more games.
Dr. Mario (NES)
Dr. Mario (GB)
Vs. Dr. Mario (a remake of the NES game for the arcade designed for two-player split-screen play)
Tetris & Dr. Mario (was a remake of the NES game, but had a special mode where you could Mix and Match between the two games for a challenge)
Dr. Mario 64 (Released in Japan as part of the Nintendo Puzzle Collection for Gamecube)
Dr. Mario & Puzzle League
Dr. Mario Online Rx
Dr. Mario Express

Being selected like Wario's overalls would be fine though, as long as he either retains his differences between him and regular Mario from Melee or is revamped to be Luigified (which is actually not that difficult). Same goes for Pichu.
Dr. Mario had more games. Paper Mario brought in more profit. And while dr. mario mak be a different alter ego, he's still mario. And I doubt theyd be in the game together.
And young link still represented a different space on the timeline, in theory he COULD have stayed. But he was replaced by Toon Link instead.
 
D

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Profit does not matter.
If it did, we would not have Ike, given that his games are among the worst selling FE titles. Aside from that, your argument was that since Paper Mario had more games (which he did not), he would likely take Doc's place. You are backpeddling and it is somewhat humorous.
Also, given that they HAVE been in the game together before and were going to be in the game together again, it isn't unreasonable to believe it will happen again.

And Toon Link had more merit than keeping Young Link, given that he didn't just "represent a different space on the timeline", he was part of a whole seperate branch, and is an iconic version of Link that is as equally as well known as the older Link style used for OoT, TP, and now SS.
 

TheCreator

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Look at Paper mario like this.

In the Kingdom Hearts games, winnie the poohs world was a book that sora could enter. Now think, in mushroom kingdom somehwere, there is a book that tells paper mario's story. He IS a different version of mario, and sakurai likes to include versions of characters that are important to the series. The only reason the paper mario series is not important to the mario series, is because indeed they are two different series. But given sakurai has the reason he had for adding young link, and THAT applies to paper mario, he also has had a different and less popular version of mario that was supposed to be playable ANYWAY. These are just my reasons for believing that he's so likely
 

N3ON

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I pretty much disagree. Unless you can show proof, the spin-offs(as in not-platformers) combined do pretty much outweigh the platformers overall in power. Sheer number does this more or less.
Of course, all of the other sub-series combined outsell the main series, if only due to quantity. Nowadays the non-platformer games in total outnumber the platformer games 2-to-1 or 3-to-1 on each system. Collectively, yeah, counting every non-platformer sub-series (Kart, RPG, Sports, Party, Puzzle, etc.) they do outweight the platformer series, but I was referring to a single game-by-game sales basis, where (for the most part) the platformers are generally the highest selling. The would definitely have the highest average sales.

Fawful is the main one in one, and an ordinary bad guy in another. As for Tatanga, he may have had more(I never really went through the SML games). But Waluigi is up there among the most appeared "as a villain". In fact, in the non-platformers, he's the king of villains. In the platformers, he's far outweighed... and you know, not there.

Nobody has more villain appearances(that didn't already from the platformer series) in the Party/Karty/etc. (save rpg) games than Waluigi, so he outweighs all of them by default. So 1% would be different if you removed the Platformers and games where Bowser/Bowser Jr./Kamek are taken out. Considering all the rest of the villains in the non-platformers show up ONCE, well.... it's obvious who the main villain of the non-platformers is. Waluigi by default. He's still presented as a bad guy throughout most of the games, still.(not pure evil, but nor is Bowser every time, except Waluigi is never shown in any heroic light, heh)
Yeah, that's what I was saying about Fawful and Tatanga, they were the main villain once, and in their other appearances they were a supporting/minor villain. It's also kind of arbitrary to ignore the villains that have appeared more than Waluigi to declare him the "main villain" of non-platformers (and it's kind of arbitrary to ignore the platformers in general when talking about the Mario series), especially since Wario and Donkey Kong have also both been a villain more times than he has in non-"Super Mario" games. Ignoring every other sub-series that doesn't fit into your fairly arbitrary rule, (so, just Mario Party, because Mario DDR isn't really a series), and the fact that Bowser has appeared as the main villain in more MP games, Waluigi would have been the main villain in 1/11. Which is just slightly more than 9%. Sure, he's never been the "hero", but you can hardly call someone who has been a main villain 9% (a percentage which will surely get lower with future MP games) a main villain of not just that sub-series (in which he was the main villain once), but the entire Mario series as a whole.

@N3ON

Likewise, on both accounts actually. Btw, I loved that picture of Banjo. Where did you find it? You got any more? Good Banjo pictures outside the official art are rather hard to come by.
Yeah, Banjo would definitely be awesome. Oh well. :(
Here's a bigger version of the picture, and no, I sadly don't have any more non-official art of Banjo like that.
 

Moon Monkey

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777 Already!? Jackpot! It seems it was just last week i was hesitating to make a new post at 665. Lol!

You guys gotta stop with the banjo- kazooie stuff your making me depressed
 

Gamingboy

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I still can't wait to see what crazy things Sakurai pulls out for us. I mean, every SSB has had at least one WTF selection that nobody was anticipating.
 
D

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Look at Paper mario like this.

In the Kingdom Hearts games, winnie the poohs world was a book that sora could enter. Now think, in mushroom kingdom somehwere, there is a book that tells paper mario's story. He IS a different version of mario, and sakurai likes to include versions of characters that are important to the series. The only reason the paper mario series is not important to the mario series, is because indeed they are two different series. But given sakurai has the reason he had for adding young link, and THAT applies to paper mario, he also has had a different and less popular version of mario that was supposed to be playable ANYWAY. These are just my reasons for believing that he's so likely
I'm afraid your reasoning is heavily flawed.
Let's see, where do I begin...

-All Mario games, unless stated otherwise, are within the same canon as each other, as the series is noted by Miyamoto himself to NOT HAVE A SET CANON.
How he describes it is that the games are essentially performances by a cast of actors that have different roles depending on the performance, explaining how the likes of Mario and Bowser could be at odds with each other in one game and go-kart buddies in the next.

-Paper Mario has made mention of other non-Paper games, quelling any ideas that it is "seperate" from the rest of the series.
Exhibit A: Luigi's Diary
Luigi's Diary said:
Page 1: Once again, my brother went on an exciting journey. Once again, he went alone. It's so unfair! I remember the carefree days when we played Golf and Tennis and had Parties. I remodeled the house and made a secret basement my brother has no idea! It's the perfect place to write in you, my secret diary.
Exhibit B: Goombario's Tattle on Goombas
Goombario said:
This is a Goomba. Goombas are what you'd call "small fries." Actually, they're pretty much the smallest fries. ...Hey, wait! I'm one of 'em! You can jump on them or whack 'em with the Hammer. These guys are old school. They've been around since you were in Super Mario Bros.!
-Sakurai has never mentioned anything about "including only important versions of characters". This is clearly a case of grasping at straws for an argument. Especially if that was the case, we would not have had Dr. Mario to begin with, nor Zero Suit Samus, as the Zero Suit was very unimportant to the Metroid series at the time of inclusion, serving as only a weakened state of Samus for an extra mission for the original Metroid's remake (Zero Mission) that takes place after the events of the original game.

-Sakurai's reasoning in that a child Link is just as important to include as an older one does not mean anything in Mario's case, so again, grasping at straws. If it did, this would apply to Baby Mario, given that he is prevalent in the Yoshi's Island series and is quite important overall to the point that he appears alongside his grown-up counterpart on more than one occasion.
 

BKupa666

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My character chances:

Ridley/K. Rool/Little Mac - 99.9%: All are among the last few Nintendo All-Stars remaining, with the previous two far and away being the most important characters left from existing series, while the latter has priority among new franchises due to his revival and popularity.

Mewtwo/Roy - 95%: Are intensely popular, and barring advertisement characters receiving priority, they'll get in.

Palutena - 85%: A popular request, primarily in Japan. Sakurai's modesty was seen in Melee but certainly not in Brawl, so that's a toss-up in my eyes. Her fanbase is also less solidified than any of the above characters, but she is SSB4's number one female anyways.

Megaman - 75%: Far and away the most likely third party character.

Takamaru - 75%: Retro spots are difficult to predict, though he easily has the credentials needed to earn his place.

Bowser Jr./Dixie - 50%: Both are easy Luigified clones to add, but may not take immediate priority within their own franchises.

Toad - 50%: Has recency and seniority in his favor, but faces fierce competition and is not requested -as a character- in Japan.

Advertisement Pokemon/New Lord: Very dependent on the requests of their companies and Sakurai's inclination to add new characters, since no advertisement matches the cut veterans' popularity.

I believe those characters have the best chances, followed probably by Krystal, an F-Zero character, Bandana Dee or a Zelda one-off. Oh, and probably one or two blonde-haired swordsmen, all of whom are extremely difficult to analyze, due to their latest games flopping, competition from each other, from their own sons, or being from a single niche game.

:phone:
 

TheCreator

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Im not saying to include only important versions of a character. Im saying he likely wont include Dr. Mario AND Paper Mario.
And no matter what is mentioned or confirmed or whatever, Paper Mario is NOT mario. He is Paper Mario. He is made out of paper. Mario is not. He is a different character than mario. And while the same could be said for Dr. Mario, and it is, Dr. Mario is not per se less important, but thats what i'd say, he hasnt had a console retail release since he was in Melee actually.
 

Diddy Kong

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I don't want Dr.Mario to return. Toad is a good Mario character people, why should he be ignored for a clone? Paper Mario and Bowser Jr. should come next in line.

And since some of y'all can't be educated on the mather... Call King K.Rool a ****ing Mario newcomer already if you must. :glare:

****ing DK ain't no ****ing Mario spin off, wtf wtf wtf...

:phone:
 
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