Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[BKupa666]

Spoiler

****ing DK ain't no ****ing Mario spin off, wtf wtf wtf...

Spoiler

That awkward moment when people label Diddy a Mario character due to his -SPORTS- appearances.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Call it rage worthy if you like...

 

[TheCreator]

So mewtwo's return....imenent? Or not gonna happen?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Oh I want it to happen almost more than anything. Just, his chances got a little slimmer with Gen 6 around. And that sucks.

 

[ChronoBound]

Bowser Jr./Dixie - 50%: Both are easy Luigified clones to add, but may not take immediate priority within their own franchises.

That's about where I would put Dixie Kong's chances right now too.

You would think Dixie Kong would get a lot more support being one of the two main protagonists in two out of three games in the DKC trilogy. In the West, she is only the third most wanted female newcomer behind Palutena and Krystal (though worldwide she is probably second overall due to Japanese popularity). Behind Palutena, she is definitely the most important female character to her franchise that is not yet playable in Smash Bros.

Looking at requests and popularity for her, she is right now where K. Rool was during pre-Brawl (prior to Diddy Kong's confirmation). She will definitely have a lot more popularity and requests after K. Rool is confirmed, though how much remains to be determined.

She has the advantage of Sakurai at least knowing what her animations and some of her attacks would be doing, due to being planned to be playable at some point for Brawl, so there is a chance she could be added as a late luigi-fied "clone" for Diddy Kong like Wolf was for Brawl (Dixie Kong would have the same specials as Diddy, but completely different A-moves and throws).

However, still there is no widespread belief that DK should have four characters. Does it stem from K. Rool supporters that if Dixie Kong were supported more, Sakurai would pick her over him due to having perhaps put more thought into a playable Dixie than K. Rool?

DKC2 is the most beloved of the DKC trilogy (and Rare's DK games in general), and Dixie Kong was one of the two main stars in that. However, I feel DKC3 does not get a fair shake. I think in terms of gameplay, it is superior to DKC1, and that its attacked primarily for not being as memorable as DKC2 was, for not having a David Wise soundtrack, and for Kiddy Kong. However, its easily superior to the original DKC in terms of gameplay.

If K. Rool gets confirmed at E3 2013, I could easily see Dixie Kong ascend to becoming the most wanted female newcomer from then on out (especially if Palutena is confirmed), since she would no longer have to be in K. Rool's shadow. She would further benefit if a new DK game is announced and she has a playable role in it (such as the rumored Diddy Kong Racing Wii U, or another DK platformer).

Its possible that if K. Rool is not confirmed at E3 2013, but she does get some new playable appearances, she will enjoy an increase in requests and become the most requested female newcomer for Smash 4 (again assuming Palutena is confirmed), however, I don't think she would overtake K. Rool in requests, though it would probably be a repeat of pre-Brawl unveil scenario where most people felt that both Meta Knight and King Dedede should be added.

If K. Rool is not confirmed and she does not get any new playable appearances, she will never soar in requests until K. Rool is confirmed.

I feel that Dixie Kong deserves more requests and recognition than she currently does, but there is nothing much that can be done for her to build her support unless one of those two outside catalysts happen (an early confirmation for K. Rool, or confirmed new playable appearances for Dixie Kong).

I am curious what others think about this.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Dixie definitely needs more recognition but every time I read she would have the same specials as Diddy, I cry **** out of my eyes...

 

[BKupa666]

I think both Dixie and K. Rool already enjoy a fair deal of support, but beyond that, you already have non-DK fans (or anti-Rare people) claiming that "the series is just fine with DK and Diddy" or "K. Rool and Dixie missed their chances with Brawl." Both of which are terrible arguments for sure, but when that sentiment exists, the result is a feeling that DK humbly deserves three instead of four reps. And that's where Dixie becomes underrated, since K. Rool is almost universally agreed on as the third DK rep.

Basically, I'm expecting a repeat of Brawl with the DK franchise, with K. Rool confirmed about as far into pre-SSB4 as Diddy was pre-Brawl. Which would leave Dixie where K. Rool was post-Brawl, missing the boat. However, unlike K. Rool, Dixie is an easy last-minute addition, so there's still a very real chance she could escape that fate.

Dixie's moveset could easily parallel Diddy's, with her shooting Tiny's feathers instead of peanuts, her Monkey Flip dealing multiple hits with her hair instead of one, and even her getting some made-up pink jetpack...anything's possible when the majority of DK's own moveset is made from scratch too.

 

[ChronoBound]

Basically, I'm expecting a repeat of Brawl with the DK franchise, with K. Rool confirmed about as far into pre-SSB4 as Diddy was pre-Brawl. Which would leave Dixie where K. Rool was post-Brawl, missing the boat. However, unlike K. Rool, Dixie is an easy last-minute addition, so there's still a very real chance she could escape that fate.

This is spot in. That is what I see as well.

 

[Diddy Kong]

C'mon BKupa... Dixie having a jetpack like Diddy? Sure, picture her doing the monkey flip and throwing bananas all you like, but there's a limit. What about a simple hair grabbing move for neutral B? Since when is THAT out of the question? Ohhh to hell with it, POSTING IT AGAIN:

B: Hair Grab. Basically think of DK's cargo grab. Dixie grabs the opponent with her hair, and is able to slam them into people. The heavier the character, the higher the damage. Though, she cannot jump and move as well carrying heavier characters like DK could.

Side B: Kong O'Nine Tails (based on the Cat O'Nine Tails enemy in DKC2). Dixie spins her hair around for a few seconds and releases an sliding hair spinning attack that can trap enemies in them and toss them around. A risky attack which does low damage (or better yet, none) but can send a foe flying far and high. Fixed knockback, but can be used as a finisher.

Up B: Hair Copter. See above animation. Combine DK's Spinning Kong with Peach's ability to float and you have a recovery rivalling Pit's. Easily.

Down B: Kinda hard to think of something but I'll just go for: Barrel Throw. A barrel or crate item appears and Dixie can use it as a projectile. Can only spawn a barrel or crate once a stock though, as it's a rather heavy attack.

General playstyle: A glass-canon character with slightly lesser offensive abilities than Diddy due to lower speed, lower strenght in general, less weight and less priority, but has a better recovery (than Diddy and than most characters in general) and quite a few tricks under her sleeve with the Barrel Throw and her Side B. She's a more grab orientated character than Diddy, and has slightly stronger throws than him as well. She has problems finishing of with her regular attacks, and doesn't have very strong Smash attacks, but her aerials are on par with Diddy's, though she doesn't have his F Air so even airbone she is a little weaker. Her aerial speed is also not as great as Diddy's, but due to her floatyness she's less likely to get combo'd than him. Her range on her moves involving her hair matches that of DK's arms though, even if her arms are still a little shorter than Diddy's. Her combo game is similar to Diddy's in style, but she may rely on grabs more for safety as even though her A attacks and aerials are fast, they don't really do too much damage on their own. She's a little bit of a trickster character, but with a few good strong points going for her as her grabs, specials and especially recovery.

To make Diddy stand out from Dixie, make some of his A moves, Smashes and aerials involve his tail. Dixie has no tail. Then, Luigify Dixie all you like.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Of course, all of the other sub-series combined outsell the main series, if only due to quantity. Nowadays the non-platformer games in total outnumber the platformer games 2-to-1 or 3-to-1 on each system. Collectively, yeah, counting every non-platformer sub-series (Kart, RPG, Sports, Party, Puzzle, etc.) they do outweight the platformer series, but I was referring to a single game-by-game sales basis, where (for the most part) the platformers are generally the highest selling. The would definitely have the highest average sales.

Quantity, maybe only that. Quality is also a factor, as they're full of that too. While the newer platformers are still great, they aren't beyond perfect as people claim. They are quite flawed(and always have been).

That, and sales aren't a perfect indication of popularity, as that doesn't include returns at all.(and people do return games all the time) It also doesn't include second hand stores either. Sales are kind of a bad way. I'd look at review averages instead from users. That's the most accurate possible.(professional reviews are a bad thing, as many do it for the sake of "hey, it's automatically good cause it's Mario".

Yeah, that's what I was saying about Fawful and Tatanga, they were the main villain once, and in their other appearances they were a supporting/minor villain. It's also kind of arbitrary to ignore the villains that have appeared more than Waluigi to declare him the "main villain" of non-platformers (and it's kind of arbitrary to ignore the platformers in general when talking about the Mario series), especially since Wario and Donkey Kong have also both been a villain more times than he has in non-"Super Mario" games. Ignoring every other sub-series that doesn't fit into your fairly arbitrary rule, (so, just Mario Party, because Mario DDR isn't really a series), and the fact that Bowser has appeared as the main villain in more MP games, Waluigi would have been the main villain in 1/11. Which is just slightly more than 9%. Sure, he's never been the "hero", but you can hardly call someone who has been a main villain 9% (a percentage which will surely get lower with future MP games) a main villain of not just that sub-series (in which he was the main villain once), but the entire Mario series as a whole.

I'd say nearly 10% is REALLY good considering there's tons of one-off villains. He's already in the top set of major ones.(Tatanga, Wart, Bowser(Baby Bowser), Bowser Jr., Donkey Kong(he technically has been one), Fawful, Cackletta). To clarify, outside of the rpg's, which have direct and important villains, and not counting when the platformer villains take over, how many others were there? I think only Mario Party had a slew of villains... Also, the Koopalings as a whole technically are higher. More appearances as villains.

For the moment, I'll use the incorrect terminology, but discounting rpg's, Waluigi is the biggest spin-off villain so far. Alternatively, not counting rpg's and platformers, he's the biggest villain so far.

This may be why he got a somewhat notable appearance in Smash before a lot bigger guys.(Tatanga, Daisy, Fawful).

 

[Deleted member]

So I was actually very excited to write this, Little Mac was a character I never gave much thought to, aside from a couple moves here and there, however, I suddenly had a flash of inspiration that built this character in a way that is just fantastic and simply proves how much potential he has.

Now, I've heard several times that Mac suffers from not having much variety in regard to movesets as he's very limited in what he can do, after all he can only throw punches. However, I disagree. As a Martial Artist, I understand just how profound the art of Boxing really it, sure, on the surface it just looks like dudes throwing punches at each other, but underneath that simplicity lies possibly on of the most complex Martial Arts there is, and I hope to express that when making this character.

We can see other Boxers in fighting games with characters such as Balrog and Dudley, and you can see a lot of diversity in they style, despite the fact that they only throw punches. So with that, on to Mac's moves.

Little Mac's Moveset:



[COLLAPSE="POW Meter"]
First and foremost, his "gimmick" so this actually dawned on me today, and it's really what makes his moveset all in all.

Little Mac has a POW Meter right above his Icon on the bottom, this activates whenever he uses his specials. Essentially, by holding down his specials you activate the meter which makes a bar quickly fluctuate between full power and weak. When releasing the button, Little Mac will do that move with the amount of power indicated on the bar. There are 3 levels of power, 3 being very powerful and very satisfying. However, let me specify, that landing a Level 3 special is no easy task, it takes precise timing as the Bar only stays on POW for a very short time. Chances are you'll be landing Level 2s most of the time.

In short, it behaves a lot like Makoto's Drive "Impact" for those who have played BlazBlue, here's a video where you can see it in action in case you haven't.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWOS0o91Kr8[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="B=Ultimate Boxing Technique: Dempsey Roll!!"]
Tap B, and Little Mac will quickly dodge as you see him do in his games:

Now, if you repeatedly tap B, Little Mac will weave back and forth dodging hits and building momentum. during this, his upper-body is invulnerable (he can still get hit with sweeps though), once you stop pressing B, Little Mac will unleash a Mean Hook Punch, followed by a flurry of consecutive Hook Punches. Now the punches, even the first one, have great hitstun, but NO knockback (only the final one does knockback). Doing the first phase longer will allow Mac to build more momentum and thus allow him to hit with more strikes when he unleashes the technique. In addition, the meter above Mac's icon activates when "charging" this move, unleashing it at full meter not only increases the damage of the punches, but also makes Mac unleash a final Uppercut at the end of the flurry, this is a Killing move at full POW. This move is very close range, as they're hook punches, you must be right in your opponent's face to execute it properly.

If you've ever read Hajime no Ippo, you've seen this move, if you haven't here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5sdJSPL1Vs
Now, contrary to what you may think, this move didn't actually debut in this manga, it is in fact a real Boxing Technique first used by Legendary Boxing Champion Jack Dempsey, you can see him use it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmaPxa-eZss

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE= "Side B=CROSS-COUNTER!!"]
Really, I mean how could I NOT have this in here, this is a classic Boxing move and a great one for Mac. Now this is the only move Mac cannot charge, as it IS a reactive move after all. This move is a counter, without the Parry. Essentially when you use this, Mac will quickstep right up to his opponent (it doesn't have much range so you better be real close), and deliver a cross punch (the arm in back), now here's the catch, if Mac gets hit when using this move, his Cross Punch will hit his opponent with 2x the damage and knockback he was hit with. Now, Mac will still take the damage and knockback from this move, so it's not a true counter. However, when hit, his knockback will be cut by 25%, giving him a slight edge in just who might die first during critical situations. The move has slight delay at the beginning signalling Mac's about to use it, on a whiff (if you miss-predict) , Mac's will still attack, as it's not a true counter, but he will only do around 5% damage and 0 knockback leaving you wide open to counter-attack. Oh, and obviously this move is useless against Long Range attacks, as he still gets hit. Another Dangerous Killing move.

Here you can see good Ol' Dudley use this move:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76MNVXkzHSg

[/COLLAPSE]


[COLLAPSE="Up B= Let's See Ya Grit Those Teeth: FINISHING UPPERCUT!!"]
This is Ryu's Shoryuken by the Book, I mean there's no way around it, this is meant to be an anti-air by and large. Now this is how it works:

This technique comes up real fast, thus why it's an anti-air, opponent's will be hit back in a similar fashion as in SF, now it can also be used on ground opponents, and this is where the move changes. It has two hitboxes, one at the beginning and one at the end. Against aerial opponents, it's just a good AA, and will deal decent damage and knockback, but won't really earn you a KO, unless they're at very high damage. However, when hitting a grounded opponent, this move rocks! Here's the thing though, like Mac's other specials, this move is also delayable, holding down B will allow you to once again activate Mac's POW meter, giving you three levels of power and range, two of which correspond with Ryu's 3 different Shoryukens (Weak and Medium), however, if you get a level 3 Finishing Uppercut, well... I guess you know what happens then. Each successive level gives Mac increased range as well as power, meaning really much coordinate your timing to achieve what you want. This applies to recover as well, as Level 3 has the best range.
[/COLLAPSE]


[COLLAPSE="Down B= Grand Slam: Knock Out PUNCH!!"]
Little Mac's ultimate technique. It functions differently in Air than it does on the Ground. Once again, this move is also delay-able and POWable. Each one giving you more Power. In this move, the range stays the same. Mac will simply glide across the ground (a set range, about half of Fox's illusion) very quickly and hit his opponent with a Powerful Punch. The higher the level the stronger the Punch, Level 3 being very painful (as powerful as the Falcon Punch). In mid-air, Mac doesn't dash at all, he stays in place and delivers a downward Hook Punch, one that hits his opponents downward at a diagonal angle, making for a very good Spike Move if used at highest level.

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Final Smash= I'll Never Give Up: The Underdog's Comeback!!"]

This is Mac's comeback move, basically his final gambit, he puts it all one the line putting all his power into his moves. His Power and Speed go up when he uses this increasing all his properties, and his body gets redder as it begins to emit steam. This is his "Kaio-Ken" if you will (really, I would compare it more to Luffy's Gear 2nd http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzEWSxPEPMo). Basically what this does is it makes it so that Mac's POW meter is always at Level 3 when using this, making all of his specials brutal. The power of his neutrals and aerials increase, and his speed increases slightly. However, when using this, Mac's damage begins to rack up (2% every second for the first 10 seconds, and 5% afterwards, as well as 10% damage for each hit he lands). It goes away once he's KO'd.
[/COLLAPSE]

As an avid manga fan, to me Mac represents the typical Shounen Battle Manga Hero. The tough guy who never gives up, the underdog that surprises opponents with his hidden potential, his POW meter is a representation of that, showing that Mac can surprise opponents with his moves by tapping into himself. It also makes it so that Mac players have to learn to use him, they have to tap that feeling of KNOWING when to use his moves and let them go, thus creating a fine connection or synchronization if you will between the player and his avatar. In addition, his Specials are a great representation of Boxing Classics, earning him the titles of a TRUE Boxing Champion.

His general playstyle is a Beatdown character like C.Falcon. Very powerful, and fast. However, since he's just a normal guy (and somewhat short) Mac's air game is near garbage and his jumps are rather shallow as well. However, his ground game DOMINATES, making him a truly interesting character. He's a bit lighter than Falcon, however, he's much more resilient to taking hits than he appears and by no means a "Lightweight." Obviously, his weaknesses lie in ranged characters and Aerial characters.

Anyway, tell me what you think. I plan on drawing up some gesture for this as well like I did with Lyn and also working on his Neutrals and Smash attacks.

 

[TheCreator]

Why didn't you give him Giga Mac as his Final Smash?

 

[Deleted member]

Why didn't you give him Giga Mac as his Final Smash?

Because I've never played Punch Out, and to be honest, it sounds kinda lame, and it's rather uncreative... It's just a bigger Mac, and it would simply last for a time limit like Super Sonic, Giga Bowser, etc... Maybe if Smash 4 goes the Multiple FSs route then this could be an alternative. But I prefer my Kaio-Ken move.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I always saw Mac as a short ranged character, with good linking moves, not so much knockback - yet good hitstun. He'd be able to follow up his regular attacks into Smash attacks nicely, but would still have slight problems finishing opponents off. Agree with his specials though. But think he should be a light weight around Marth's weight, maybe a point or so lighter. He should be a good all rounded fighter, but specialise in his ground game of coarse, and have some nice tricks with his B moves. He'd be a pretty straight forward character, but nowhere near boring. Good for novice players and experienced players a like.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I'm afraid your reasoning is heavily flawed.
Let's see, where do I begin...

-All Mario games, unless stated otherwise, are within the same canon as each other, as the series is noted by Miyamoto himself to NOT HAVE A SET CANON.
How he describes it is that the games are essentially performances by a cast of actors that have different roles depending on the performance, explaining how the likes of Mario and Bowser could be at odds with each other in one game and go-kart buddies in the next.

-Paper Mario has made mention of other non-Paper games, quelling any ideas that it is "seperate" from the rest of the series.
Exhibit A: Luigi's Diary

Exhibit B: Goombario's Tattle on Goombas


-Sakurai has never mentioned anything about "including only important versions of characters". This is clearly a case of grasping at straws for an argument. Especially if that was the case, we would not have had Dr. Mario to begin with, nor Zero Suit Samus, as the Zero Suit was very unimportant to the Metroid series at the time of inclusion, serving as only a weakened state of Samus for an extra mission for the original Metroid's remake (Zero Mission) that takes place after the events of the original game.

-Sakurai's reasoning in that a child Link is just as important to include as an older one does not mean anything in Mario's case, so again, grasping at straws. If it did, this would apply to Baby Mario, given that he is prevalent in the Yoshi's Island series and is quite important overall to the point that he appears alongside his grown-up counterpart on more than one occasion.

These are all good points Golden, I agree with you for the most part. However, while Paper Mario is Mario, Dr. Mario is just Mario as well. Quite honestly, in my opinion anyway, Paper Mario has quite a bit more potential to be different from the original Mario than the Doctor does.

If we are to bring relevancy into question , Paper Mario is still bringing in new games, while Dr. Mario isn't keeping up, so there isn't much of an argument there.

Also, the Link/Toon Link can really only apply to having a second version, not the reasoning behind it. If Sakurai decided he wanted another version of Mario in the game, then it would make sense. But as you said, it isn't anything like the Zelda situation.

Really, I think it would be best if they gave Mario an alternate costume for the Doctor as DLC, and changed the fireballs to megavitamins, and the cape to a sheet.

 

[Deleted member]

I always saw Mac as a short ranged character, with good linking moves, not so much knockback - yet good hitstun. He'd be able to follow up his regular attacks into Smash attacks nicely, but would still have slight problems finishing opponents off. Agree with his specials though. But think he should be a light weight around Marth's weight, maybe a point or so lighter. He should be a good all rounded fighter, but specialise in his ground game of coarse, and have some nice tricks with his B moves. He'd be a pretty straight forward character, but nowhere near boring. Good for novice players and experienced players a like.

Well, he is a well-rounded fighter. Despite his low jumps he does have pretty decent recover, he's also fast and very strong doing plenty of damage with his hits. I agree on the Neutrals as well, it's the same things I had in mind. I disagree on the weight thing though. He may be known as "Little" but Boxer are trained to have very good resistance to hits and to be very resilient. Making him light will simple make him a "Glass Cannon" and weaken his ground game. Boxing is about being able to take hits, just as much as being able to dish them out. I feel that being a smidge lighter than Falcon is perfect for him. Likewise with having difficulty to finsh off opponents, he's not much of a Momentum character, Boxing is about Power, most Momentum characters like Marth and such are about being combo heavy, Boxing is more about having strong hits and knowing when to land them.

One more thing, he's not difficult to use at all, in BlazBlue, Makoto Nanaya, the character I based the POW meter off of, tends to be a common pic among novices, just because his Lvl. 3 attacks are really strong doesn't mean Lvl. 2 is weak by any stretch.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Falcon is a tad on the heavy side however. And he's the same weight as Link. Think that's going a bit too far, but I think about Mario's weight would be reasonable at least. Preferably, I'd see him even a little lighter than that (Mario's weight is '100', I'd wanna see Mac at about '97~93'). The fact that he's lighter shouldn't make him less effective, cause I could see his fast linking moves as pretty hard to break through in most cases, unless you'd outrange / out prioritice / spam projectiles badly. So him being lighter wouldn't be so bad.

Considering he's also really counter-heavy, making Little Mac a semi-heavy weight would be asking for serious balance issues. He'd have plenty defence in his game already, no need to be heavy, unless you plan for his recovery to be really bad, much like Yoshi's?

 

[Deleted member]

Falcon is a tad on the heavy side however. And he's the same weight as Link. Think that's going a bit too far, but I think about Mario's weight would be reasonable at least. Preferably, I'd see him even a little lighter than that (Mario's weight is '100', I'd wanna see Mac at about '97~93'). The fact that he's lighter shouldn't make him less effective, cause I could see his fast linking moves as pretty hard to break through in most cases, unless you'd outrange / out prioritice / spam projectiles badly. So him being lighter wouldn't be so bad.

How heavy is Falcon actually? Do you have some chart that compares all weights? A tad ligther than Falcon should be around Mario's weight. He's no heavyweight after all, but, neither is Falcon.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yes. I'll dig it up.

Found it. Falcon's weight is 104, and so is Link's. Here's a link to all weight vallues in each version of Smash:

http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Weight

 

[peeup]

Been reading a lil bit of this lately, can someone explain a lil about Dillon's Rolling Western? I'm seriously digging his character model and he seems like some fresh blood that would work pretty well in Smash. That said though I really don't know anything about him.

 

[Deleted member]

Yes. I'll dig it up.

Found it. Falcon's weight is 104, and so is Link's. Here's a link to all weight vallues in each version of Smash:

http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Weight

Samus is heavier than Ganondorf in Melee? Really? She dies a bit too quickly for that to be true...

Anyway, a smidge heavier than Falcon is around Mario's weight. Marth is down at 87, which is much too light, I'd say between 98 and 102. As his recovery is is rather poor, much worse than Falcon's that's for sure.

Also, on the meter. I suppose you think I made him counter heavy because if that. His "Cross Counter" is really an offensive move, despite being reflexive. The POW meter also moves very fast, the bar goes from null to POW and back down to null in about a second. The meter is more about Timing the moves than charging them. Check the video I posted with the POW Meter description. You'll notice that Makoto, despite having the same concept is a very offensive character and can even use fully charged variations of her moves during combos.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Samus lives quite long actually, but more through her 'hax recovery' than anything else. Always found that she and Ganondorf died at about the same time though. It probably has to do with her floatyness, which also makes you die easier. Especially in Melee, and especially from a Star KO. Look at Melee Fox's weight, he's very light, but he's still a ***** to kill if it isn't for cheap edgeguarding. Medium weight is ok for Little Mac though, but would ague 102 is still heavier than I expect him.

Recovery also has a LOT to do with how long a character lives as well. Snake and King Dedede for example easily live about 30% longer in general than Bowser does.

 

[Deleted member]

Samus lives quite long actually, but more through her 'hax recovery' than anything else. Always found that she and Ganondorf died at about the same time though. It probably has to do with her floatyness, which also makes you die easier. Especially in Melee, and especially from a Star KO. Look at Melee Fox's weight, he's very light, but he's still a ***** to kill if it isn't for cheap edgeguarding. Medium weight is ok for Little Mac though, but would ague 102 is still heavier than I expect him.

Recovery also has a LOT to do with how long a character lives as well. Snake and King Dedede for example easily live about 30% longer in general than Bowser does.

Hmm, I suppose you're right, well this really all goes down into balancing. The only way to perfect this is by playing them.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Mario is pretty much in the same boat as how you envision Little Mac though. Mario also has really, really, ****ty recovery. Play as him a little, and see if his survivability is the same as you envision Little Mac having.

 

[Deleted member]

Mario is pretty much in the same boat as how you envision Little Mac though. Mario also has really, really, ****ty recovery. Play as him a little, and see if his survivability is the same as you envision Little Mac having.

Sort of... Mario's Cape and Magnet Hands give him better recovery than expected, especially in Melee. Tornado>Jump>Cape>Cape>Cape>SJP.

I gave Mac, mediocre jumps with a Shoryuken that needs good timing to get max range.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah in Melee, but not so much in Brawl.

Am actually really pissed I just saw a Mewtwo lose so badly in Melee. http://nl.twitch.tv/epsilon933/b/352222040?t=5h54m45s Match starts at 6:04:somewhere. I raged from the inside...

 

[lobotheduck21]

Yoshi is weigh to heavy (see what I did there )

Thanks diddy, I was looking for a weight chart for my preztail move set

 

[Diddy Kong]

Given how Yoshi works, he'd still be too light even if he where the heaviest in the game... Yoshi will probably never be good in a Smash game because of this.

 

[Deleted member]

Given how Yoshi works, he'd still be too light even if he where the heaviest in the game... Yoshi will probably never be good in a Smash game because of this.

That's a good point... How do you 'fix' Yoshi? There's so much wrong with the poor thing...

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'd WANNA say, to hell with the Egg Roll, and make the Egg Throw his Side B (which makes much more sence). Thus in actuality give him a propper Up B. But I doubt they gonna do that. Would love it if they did that though. Other than that: decide if you wanna make him a fast, combo based character like in Brawl, or slower but quite strong as in Melee. Added range to the grab and neutral B would also be cool. And make his U Air a better killer move, and also bring back his Melee Down Smash. Then, I think he would be pretty viable.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Maybe also give Yoshi better shielding options, since the delay of hatching out of it prevents retaliation of any sorts.

 

[Dark Phazon]

I think both Dixie and K. Rool already enjoy a fair deal of support, but beyond that, you already have non-DK fans (or anti-Rare people) claiming that "the series is just fine with DK and Diddy" or "K. Rool and Dixie missed their chances with Brawl." Both of which are terrible arguments for sure, but when that sentiment exists, the result is a feeling that DK humbly deserves three instead of four reps. And that's where Dixie becomes underrated, since K. Rool is almost universally agreed on as the third DK rep.

Basically, I'm expecting a repeat of Brawl with the DK franchise, with K. Rool confirmed about as far into pre-SSB4 as Diddy was pre-Brawl. Which would leave Dixie where K. Rool was post-Brawl, missing the boat. However, unlike K. Rool, Dixie is an easy last-minute addition, so there's still a very real chance she could escape that fate.

Dixie's moveset could easily parallel Diddy's, with her shooting Tiny's feathers instead of peanuts, her Monkey Flip dealing multiple hits with her hair instead of one, and even her getting some made-up pink jetpack...anything's possible when the majority of DK's own moveset is made from scratch too.

When you say ''K.Rool missed the boat for brawl''

Was he actuallt considered by nintendo or had development?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Nope, none at all. But on the other hand, they probably didn't note K.Rool support so much due to massive fan demand for Diddy. Who imo should've been in from the first installment but whatever.

 

[BKupa666]

Nope, none at all. But on the other hand, they probably didn't note K.Rool support so much due to massive fan demand for Diddy. Who imo should've been in from the first installment but whatever.

Not that it matters now, but the fact that Dedede, Wolf and Pit were allegedly planned for the original SSB but not Diddy makes me seethe a bit.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Dedede and Pit, ok. Bowser? Ok. Mewtwo, yeah awesome. It gets insulting when Peach, Wolf and Meowth being considered above him though... At least Melee had the whole Rare buyout excuse :/

 

[Moon Monkey]

Given how Yoshi works, he'd still be too light even if he where the heaviest in the game... Yoshi will probably never be good in a Smash game because of this.

Fight Me.

LOL! I hope Yoshi gets his egg throw buffed to how it was in Melee. i hate per-determined egg throw routes

 

[Dark Phazon]

Fight Me.

LOL

Lol Hurrr Ahhh....5 months...

 

[Moon Monkey]

Lol Hurrr Ahhh....5 months...

I really hope the do the online right. I'm holding my breath for voice chat.

 

[Dark Phazon]

I really hope the do the online right. I'm holding my breath for voice chat.

Your gonna suffocaite...

 

[Diddy Kong]

Remembers me of the time I challenged this board to shut me up about Impa lol. Conditions where: beat me with Sheik while I play as Diddy. Nobody won so far, but had a lot of fun matches.