Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Scar86]

Those are both Martial arts stances that don't appear to use swords, the wrist of the action figure on the left is tilted at the wrong angle for wielding a sword correctly, especially with one hand. But then again, it IS a videogame. So real life laws don't necessarily need to apply.

That being said, I remember that Sakurai uses his figurines for almost every character, so for all we know Kirby just might have some new moves!

 

[N3ON]

I don't think Issac is not likely, I know Issac is not likely. Golden Sun was not one of the franchises worth a character inclusion on the roster back in the days of Brawl, and judging by the mediocre reception of Golden Sun: Dark Dawn and how the series fell off the map, it doesn't seem to have changed much in that regard.

Keep in mind, the landscape for character inclusion looks quite different than it did for Brawl. Back then, there were still multiple big name characters to be added, such as Wario, Diddy Kong, etc. and as much as I would've liked to see them, characters from comparatively smaller series like Golden Sun, S&P, Starfy, and Custom Robo really didn't come to the level the other characters were at by and large, I agree with Sakurai in that only Pikmin and Animal Crossing did, even if it was disappointing. This time around, as there are only a handful of "heavy-hitting, A-list characters" left (like Ridley, Toad (who I could very easily see being omitted again), etc.), the bar is effectively lower, and the competition is a little easier for who could be seen as meriting a spot.

Plus, by that logic, keeping Brawl's standards of inclusion basically eliminates all series made this century not already represented, except perhaps the Wii/Mii one. If they were still held to Brawl's standards, not only would Isaac, Saki, and Starfy not have a chance (when in reality they all have chances), but neither would Shulk. His game didn't perform as well commercially as the first two GSs, it was about on-par with them critically, and at his peak Isaac was just as popular as Shulk is, even in Japan. It's possible one day Xenoblade might be "worthy" by Brawl's standards, but it's not now. You have to admit getting at least one of these four characters is probable, even if you believe two or three are horribly unlikely.

Like I said, the bar is lower, and all these characters have varying chances. I'm not trying to say they are A-list material, I'm not even trying to say their chances are good, I'm just saying they do indeed have a chance.

Or you could keep your Brawl-era mentality, but know that it also pretty effectively applies to all series made post-2000, excluding Pikmin, AC, Nintendogs, and probably Wii, not just Golden Sun.

 

[Arcadenik]

Here is a new poll I did with just the big four (Toad, Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, and Waluigi) in regards to a Mario newcomer:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-wii-u/65021647

As was the case before, it was still very close. There is no favorite in regards to a Mario newcomer, which means that there a Mario newcomer will get in on merits aside from fan-favoritism.

On a side note, I think Waluigi has the loudest fanbase of all the Mario newcomers this time. There are some people that think he is the most wanted Mario newcomer, when in actuality he is pretty much on par with other characters. Its amazing how making a lot of noise can make your character's popularity seem a lot bigger than it actually is.

You mentioned the word "merits"... so, in your opinion, when it comes to female characters (except Palutena) and Mario characters having seemingly stalemate popularity, which ones do you think has the merits to get in Smash this time around?

 

[ChronoBound]

You mentioned the word "merits"... so, in your opinion, when it comes to female characters (except Palutena) and Mario characters having seemingly stalemate popularity, which ones do you think has the merits to get in Smash this time around?

I think Toad, Bowser Jr., and Paper Mario all have merits to be playable. Toad has series seniority, iconic status (probably the only iconic Nintendo character aside from Ridley that is not yet playable), and being a playable character in the main platformer series going for him. Bowser Jr. has being a major antagonist in every Mario platformer starting with Sunshine (except 3D Land) going for him, as well as a body-similarity to another character on the roster (which would make him feasible as a last minute luigi-fied clone of Bowser). Paper Mario has being star of a popular Mario sub-series going for him.

As for female characters, the only one I think is worthy enough to be playable aside from Palutena is Dixie Kong, though Dixie being added will depend upon whether Sakurai thinks DK should have four characters. Krystal is also plausible, though unlikely. Aside from that, there are no other female characters I could see getting in.

I think it will most likely just be Palutena, with a 50/50 chance Dixie Kong is added in as a last minute luigi-fied clone of Diddy Kong (similar specials and Final Smash, but different A-moves and throws) like Toon Link and Wolf were.

 

[Opossum]

People, people...it's Isaac, not Issac. Two As, not Ss. Just a bit of a pet peeve. In any case, I do feel that the bar will be lowered, but not too much.

 

[SmashChu]

Keep in mind, the landscape for character inclusion looks quite different than it did for Brawl. Back then, there were still multiple big name characters to be added, such as Wario, Diddy Kong, etc. and as much as I would've liked to see them, characters from comparatively smaller series like Golden Sun, S&P, Starfy, and Custom Robo really didn't come to the level the other characters were at by and large, I agree with Sakurai in that only Pikmin and Animal Crossing did, even if it was disappointing. This time around, as there are only a handful of "heavy-hitting, A-list characters" left (like Ridley, Toad (who I could very easily see being omitted again), etc.), the bar is effectively lower, and the competition is a little easier for who could be seen as meriting a spot.

Plus, by that logic, keeping Brawl's standards of inclusion basically eliminates all series made this century not already represented, except perhaps the Wii/Mii one. If they were still held to Brawl's standards, not only would Isaac, Saki, and Starfy not have a chance (when in reality they all have chances), but neither would Shulk. His game didn't perform as well commercially as the first two GSs, it was about on-par with them critically, and at his peak Isaac was just as popular as Shulk is, even in Japan. It's possible one day Xenoblade might be "worthy" by Brawl's standards, but it's not now. You have to admit getting at least one of these four characters is probable, even if you believe two or three are horribly unlikely.

Like I said, the bar is lower, and all these characters have varying chances. I'm not trying to say they are A-list material, I'm not even trying to say their chances are good, I'm just saying they do indeed have a chance.

Or you could keep your Brawl-era mentality, but know that it also pretty effectively applies to all series made post-2000, excluding Pikmin, AC, Nintendogs, and probably Wii, not just Golden Sun.

Your forgetting something very importaint on why those characters wont get in and why Shulk likely will.

The characters that get added all have one thing in common (save for third parties). They are all first party Nintendo titles. The furthest one from this is Pokemon, though Nintendo owns 33% of the franchise and Creature, one of their subsidiarity, owns another 33%. This makes them the majority owner. The reason you didn't see Saki, Issac and Starfy and the reason Sakurai ignored them in one of his post was because he looks at first party characters which, guess what, Shulk is.

This could change, but it's doubtful.

 

[ChronoBound]

People, people...it's Isaac, not Issac. Two As, not Ss. Just a bit of a pet peeve. In any case, I do feel that the bar will be lowered, but not too much.

Isaac's credentials for pre-Brawl were probably better than Shulk's is now. Isaac had TWO games instead of one, and both of those games had very high sales in both Japan and North America (I think in North America, one of the GS games sold close to or over a million). They were also both as critically received as Xenoblade was, and there was a lot of demand for Isaac's inclusion in both Japan and the West.

The problem that Isaac had, was as N30N pointed out, that he had to compete with some of the biggest names of Nintendo for a spot, and Sakurai's high standards for newcomer series then.

If Golden Sun: Dark Dawn had the sales and reception of the GBA titles, I think Isaac (or perhaps Matthew) would be much more likely for Smash 4. I really don't know why Camelot spent so long putting the series on hiatus, only for it to come back with an okay third installment. They pretty much will now be stuck doing Mario Golf and Tennis titles for eternity. They created a beloved new RPG IP, and instead of immediately making a follow up for the DS, they spent much of this generation just navel-gazing. Camelot lost a lot of their team during this generation, which probably is the main reason why their output was so limited compared to what they put out during previous console generations.

Even Camelot's latest Mario Tennis was basically a step down compared to their previous efforts (it was a handheld Mario Tennis, and they did not even bother to include RPG elements). Camelot may end up being another sad former Nintendo second-party story. I can't see them existing solely on making Mario Tennis and Mario Golf games.

NOISE is pretty much another second-party studio that may be on the way out too. Their last game was released in 2009 for Namco on the DS. They can't not be making any games for so long and expect to survive. They don't have the team or manpower to make a Wii U Custom Robo, but maybe if they re-tool their GCN Custom Robo engine, they could make a 3DS one. Custom Robo has been on hiatus for almost as long as from the period of time from the first Custom Robo (1999) to the last one (2006). I think a 3DS Custom Robo would pretty much be their last chance to make people interested in the franchise again.

TOSE is fine. They develop a ton of games (they are not a second-party to Nintendo). Its really strange they did not make a Starfy 6 yet though.

 

[SmashChu]

I disagree that Issac was popular in japan. His popularity was always centered in the west. Shulk's advantage is he is very popular in Japan and popular in the west. He's more well rounded of a character. He's also first party which tend to get in (BTW, I'm all for Golden Sun in the next game).

I didn't notice the figures before. The first one looks liken he's jumping. His foot isn't flat, so this is likely the case. He is also holding a weapon, likely it's going over his other shoulder. It could be Takamaru. Any character with a weapon is fair game. The second is a lot harder. It could be female, but it's really hard to tell, so I say don't focus on that as much. I guess it's doing an attack, but it could really be anything. I don't have a guess. It might be more clear if I knew what the animation was for. Maybe running or a dodge.

I would rather he show off the game then do crap like this. It's teasing. No different then eating a big burger in front of your dog. The only thing is I can hope we will see the game soon.

 

[ChronoBound]

I disagree that Issac was popular in japan. His popularity was always centered in the west.

Isaac had plenty of requests in Japan during pre-Brawl, at least more than any other new series character not named Olimar. Both Golden Sun games also sold more than 300K in Japan, whereas Xenoblade did not even break 200K.

 

[Opossum]

Isaac's credentials for pre-Brawl were probably better than Shulk's is now. Isaac had TWO games instead of one, and both of those games had very high sales in both Japan and North America (I think in North America, one of the GS games sold close to or over a million). They were also both as critically received as Xenoblade was, and there was a lot of demand for Isaac's inclusion in both Japan and the West.

The problem that Isaac had, was as N30N pointed out, that he had to compete with some of the biggest names of Nintendo for a spot, and Sakurai's high standards for newcomer series then.

If Golden Sun: Dark Dawn had the sales and reception of the GBA titles, I think Isaac (or perhaps Matthew) would be much more likely for Smash 4. I really don't know why Camelot spent so long putting the series on hiatus, only for it to come back with an okay third installment. They pretty much will now be stuck doing Mario Golf and Tennis titles for eternity. They created a beloved new RPG IP, and instead of immediately making a follow up for the DS, they spent much of this generation just navel-gazing. Camelot lost a lot of their team during this generation, which probably is the main reason why their output was so limited compared to what they put out during previous console generations.

Even Camelot's latest Mario Tennis was basically a step down compared to their previous efforts (it was a handheld Mario Tennis, and they did not even bother to include RPG elements). Camelot may end up being another sad former Nintendo second-party story. I can't see them existing solely on making Mario Tennis and Mario Golf games.

NOISE is pretty much another second-party studio that may be on the way out too. Their last game was released in 2009 for Namco on the DS. They can't not be making any games for so long and expect to survive. They don't have the team or manpower to make a Wii U Custom Robo, but maybe if they re-tool their GCN Custom Robo engine, they could make a 3DS one. Custom Robo has been on hiatus for almost as long as from the period of time from the first Custom Robo (1999) to the last one (2006). I think a 3DS Custom Robo would pretty much be their last chance to make people interested in the franchise again.

TOSE is fine. They develop a ton of games (they are not a second-party to Nintendo). Its really strange they did not make a Starfy 6 yet though.

I know Isaac's chances aren't the best right now. I was just saying that I think the bar is slightly lowered, mainly due to the fact that there aren't a lot of big names left. I mean, as far as "Big" Nintendo characters, we really only have Ridley, Toad, K. Rool, and the re-addition of Mewtwo. Maybe stretch it to Little Mac as well.

But yeah. The lack of a new Starfy is odd, but I don't think it means anything bad. TOSE makes a lot of stuff. I would be surprised if there's not one in the works being kept on the down-low.

 

[N3ON]

Your forgetting something very importaint on why those characters wont get in and why Shulk likely will.

The characters that get added all have one thing in common (save for third parties). They are all first party Nintendo titles. The furthest one from this is Pokemon, though Nintendo owns 33% of the franchise and Creature, one of their subsidiarity, owns another 33%. This makes them the majority owner. The reason you didn't see Saki, Issac and Starfy and the reason Sakurai ignored them in one of his post was because he looks at first party characters which, guess what, Shulk is.

This could change, but it's doubtful.

Just because a character is first party and easier to include doesn't necessarily mean they merit inclusion more than a second party character. Sure Shulk is legally easier to add, but that doesn't mean Sakurai would've hypothetically added him if he existed pre-Brawl, his series is still around the same sub-par-by-Brawl-standards that the 2nd party IPs are, which is all I was trying to convey in my post. I didn't mention each character's individual chances (I don't think all four have the same likelihood - far from it), just the fact they were all similar in the Brawl-standards regard.

Plus, as there is no evidence that specifically states Sakurai gives extra points for first-parties (or takes away points for second-parties), it just seems to be another apparent pattern that in reality means very little. Nintendo doesn't have any 2nd party IPs, other than Pokemon, that match the level of the series already in Smash, it's not like we know Sakurai prioritizes first-parties above second-parties, and excludes deserving second-parties, first parties are just a lot more prominent. We really won't know if first-parties are in fact prioritized higher until we reach a point where the 2nd-party IPs outclass the remaining unrepresented 1st-party IPs, yet the 1st-parties were the ones included. Then I would concede that being first-party indeed improves chances.

Inferring that Sakurai only looks at first-parties by the fact that he only mentioned Pikmin, AC, and Nintendogs merited inclusion at the time is reading too much into it. All it means is supposedly Sakurai thought at the time no other series were important enough for inclusion (including 1st party IPs as well), not that 2nd-parties are to be eternally excluded.

 

[---]

The first two Golden Sun games being such a success is what makes me think that the series will come back someday, but only if fans are able to show their support to Nintendo.

I'd think Custom Robo has another game in it before it possibly bites the dust, but if only due to NOISE needing something to put them to work, or someone realizing that the series is a great fit for the 3DS/Wii U.

Of course I doubt we'll be getting any of these games announced at E3, at least until Nintendo is able to get the Wii U situation under control and gain back some of their loses. At this point I'm only predicting new releases for the Big 5 + Smash & Retro, FE13 DLC news, 3rd parties at E3.

 

[SmashChu]

Just because a character is first party and easier to include doesn't necessarily mean they merit inclusion more than a second party character. Sure Shulk is legally easier to add, but that doesn't mean Sakurai would've hypothetically added him if he existed pre-Brawl, his series is still around the same sub-par-by-Brawl-standards that the 2nd party IPs are, which is all I was trying to convey in my post. I didn't mention each character's individual chances (I don't think all four have the same likelihood - far from it), just the fact they were all similar in the Brawl-standards regard.

Plus, as there is no evidence that specifically states Sakurai gives extra points for first-parties, it just seems to be another apparent pattern that in reality means very little. Nintendo doesn't have any 2nd party IPs, other than Pokemon, that match the level of the series already in Smash, it's not like we know Sakurai prioritizes first-parties above second-parties, and excludes deserving second-parties, first parties are just a lot more prominent. We really won't know if first-parties are in fact prioritized higher until we reach a point where the 2nd-party IPs outclass the remaining unrepresented 1st-party IPs, yet the 1st-parties were the ones included. Then I would concede that being first-party indeed improves chances.

Inferring that Sakurai only looks at first-parties by the fact that he only mentioned Pikmin, AC, and Nintendogs merited inclusion at the time is reading too much into it. All it means is supposedly Sakurai thought at the time no other series were important enough for inclusion (including 1st party IPs as well), not that 2nd-parties are to be eternally excluded.

Pokemon, as far as I know, isn't 2nd party and Nintendo owns 66% of the series. Gamer Freak is a second party developer as Nintendo doesn't own them. But they can go and develop games for other systems. Up until now, only first party titles were considered for playable characters.

The difference is ownership. Nintendo has full control over Xenoblade. It's their series. They don't have the same control over Golden Sun. They have publishing rights (and more), but they don't have ultimate say on it.

I say Shulk is more likely because first parties are the only ones who have gotten in up until this point. I think Brawl made a good case for that. During the GBA/Cube days, Nintendo had a TON of second party titles come out with Golden Sun, Starfy, Drill Dozer, and Sin and Punishment not to long ago. Golden Sun has even performed just as well as Pikmin has. However, all of these titles got passed up. Heck, even magical Starsign, a first party title, had 3 trophies (or a series that didn't even get character).

Again, I say this because it has been consistent. It could change, but we'll have to wait for it to actually happen.

 

[Graizen]

 

[FlareHabanero]

While it's true that there are only a few "big" names out there from Nintendo left, that's not to say there would be a limit for solely them.

In Super Smash Bros., we got the fluff you'd expect from a Nintendo crossover like Mario, Link, Samus and Kirby. But then there are Ness and Captain Falcon, two characters that kinda stick out more then the others for being unexpected.

In Super Smash Bros. Melee, we got Bowser, Mewtwo, Zelda, and Marth, but we also got Dr. Mario, Ice Climbers, and Mr. Game & Watch.

In Super Smash Bros. Brawl, we got Diddy Kong, Wario, King Dedede, and Pit, but then we had Lucas, R.O.B., and Pokemon Trainer.

Super Smash Bros. 4 is probably going to continue the tradition of mixing the expected with the unexpected.

 

[ChronoBound]

The first two Golden Sun games being such a success is what makes me think that the series will come back someday, but only if fans are able to show their support to Nintendo.

I'd think Custom Robo has another game in it before it possibly bites the dust, but if only due to NOISE needing something to put them to work, or someone realizing that the series is a great fit for the 3DS/Wii U.

Of course I doubt we'll be getting any of these games announced at E3, at least until Nintendo is able to get the Wii U situation under control and gain back some of their loses. At this point I'm only predicting new releases for the Big 5 + Smash & Retro, FE13 DLC news, 3rd parties at E3.

I think the first two Golden Sun games being a large success was the reason why Dark Dawn even happened despite the long hiatus (nearly eight years if going by Japanese dates). I don't think it would be possible for them to take another eight years off again from GS3 to GS4.

As for Custom Robo, I strongly doubt a Wii U Custom Robo would happen considering how small NOISE is. I am surprised that a Wii one did not happen despite them already having a perfectly good engine to use for one (the GCN Custom Robo's engine). I think if another Custom Robo ever does happen, it will be for the 3DS. The sales and reviews for this possible 3DS Custom Robo will pretty much determine what will happen with the series from that point. If NOISE is not currently existing as skeleton-crew they are probably working on a 3DS Custom Robo or trying to pitch one to Nintendo.

As for C-list series announcements, the only two I can see happening this year are Starfy (which is long overdue) and maybe Custom Robo.

Also, I doubt FE13 DLC would be major news for E3. I think by the time E3 rolls around, most of the FE13 DLC will have already been released for the West anyway.

 

[Opossum]

So wait...is this a roster or a newcomer pool? I still didn't get an answer.

 

[ChronoBound]

In Super Smash Bros. Brawl, we got Diddy Kong, Wario, King Dedede, and Pit, but then we had Lucas, R.O.B., and Pokemon Trainer.

Lucas was basically another Marth. The character seems obscure and nonsensical to us, but made sense to the Japanese fanbase. Pokemon Trainer (and his three Pokemon) made have been unexpected, but as a character he is very iconic (as well as Squirtle, Ivysaur, and especially Charizard).

 

[Graizen]

So wait...is this a roster or a newcomer pool? I still didn't get an answer.

Is a wish list xD

 

[Opossum]

Ah, okay. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[---]

As for Custom Robo, I strongly doubt a Wii U Custom Robo would happen considering how small NOISE is. I am surprised that a Wii one did not happen despite them already having a perfectly good engine to use for one (the GCN Custom Robo's engine). I think if another Custom Robo ever does happen, it will be for the 3DS. The sales and reviews for this possible 3DS Custom Robo will pretty much determine what will happen with the series from that point. If NOISE is not currently existing as skeleton-crew they are probably working on a 3DS Custom Robo or trying to pitch one to Nintendo.

As for C-list series announcements, the only two I can see happening this year are Starfy (which is long overdue) and maybe Custom Robo.

Also, I doubt FE13 DLC would be major news for E3. I think by the time E3 rolls around, most of the FE13 DLC will have already been released for the West anyway.

Either or with Custom Robo, it has potential on both systems. As a side thought, it could maybe work as an eShop title?

Who knows about FE13, it still took them months to release it all in Japan even with weekly releases. It wouldn't be major news, but it's something I can see them mentioning, if not then in a Nintendo Direct.

 

[lobotheduck21]

A custom robo game with a spore-like creature creator would be epic

 

[N3ON]

Pokemon, as far as I know, isn't 2nd party and Nintendo owns 66% of the series. Gamer Freak is a second party developer as Nintendo doesn't own them. But they can go and develop games for other systems. Up until now, only first party titles were considered for playable characters.

The difference is ownership. Nintendo has full control over Xenoblade. It's their series. They don't have the same control over Golden Sun. They have publishing rights (and more), but they don't have ultimate say on it.

It's pretty undeniable that Pokemon is a second party IP. Nintendo clearly doesn't have full control over it, which is evident by the recent release of it on the iOS. They might have more control over it than they do Golden Sun, but they do not have complete control over it, and they are not the sole owner of the rights to the IP. That makes it 2nd party. Even some first-parties are sole owners of some of their IPs, such as HAL with Adventure of Lolo and Eggerland.

I say Shulk is more likely because first parties are the only ones who have gotten in up until this point. I think Brawl made a good case for that. During the GBA/Cube days, Nintendo had a TON of second party titles come out with Golden Sun, Starfy, Drill Dozer, and Sin and Punishment not to long ago. Golden Sun has even performed just as well as Pikmin has. However, all of these titles got passed up. Heck, even magical Starsign, a first party title, had 3 trophies (or a series that didn't even get character).

Look at the new, non-retro, non-third-party series that made it into Brawl. Pikmin and Wario. There weren't any 2nd party IPs that were as big or important as these two (Pikmin was bigger than GS, more popular, and had Miyamoto power - which is different than first-party bias), it's not like an equally deserving 2nd-party was overlooked, these two IPs were legitimately bigger and more important than the competition, which is why they got in.

And trophies mean very little character-chance-wise. There were also many 2nd-party trophies in Brawl, including three Custom Robo and Chosoju Mecha MG trophies each, both second party IPs. And an Electroplankton stage, also a second party IP.

Again, I say this because it has been consistent. It could change, but we'll have to wait for it to actually happen.

Right, so far first-party series have made up the majority of the roster because the most prominent Nintendo series, other than Pokemon (which will continue to be a second party until Nintendo straight up buys either the entire IP or Game Freak), are made up of some of Nintendo's first parties, not because they are given priority or an unequal advantage over second-party, so far they have just been more important and more deserving. Once the 2nd party IPs become among the biggest and most deserving unrepresented series left, we will see if they are still excluded, because then, and only then (or if Sakurai comes out and says something directly on this matter), your point would have some proven truth to it.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Lucas was basically another Marth. The character seems obscure and nonsensical to us, but made sense to the Japanese fanbase.

I refereed to Lucas specifically because of Mother 3 not being localized and Lucas's appearance in Super Smash Bros. adding insult to injury.

Which kinda reminds me of the infamous "Ness is being replaced by Lucas" rumor that circulated during Brawl's speculation.

 

[N3ON]

I refereed to Lucas specifically because of Mother 3 not being localized and Lucas's appearance in Super Smash Bros. adding insult to injury.

I think it could be entirely possible that Lucas was added without Sakurai knowing what the future would entail for Mother 3, localization-wise. I mean, he was added to the roster before his game even came out. Just a theory, Lucas clearly was added for the Japanese audience first and foremost anyway.

 

[SmashChu]

It's pretty undeniable that Pokemon is a second party IP. Nintendo clearly doesn't have full control over it, which is evident by the recent release of it on the iOS. They might have more control over it than they do Golden Sun, but they do not have complete control over it, and they are not the sole owner of the rights to the IP. That makes it 2nd party. Even some first-parties are sole owners of some of their IPs, such as HAL with Adventure of Lolo and Eggerland.

This is true, but your missing the forest for the trees.

The idea is ownership and rights. Nintendo owns Pokemon. Nintendo does not own Golden Sun. Or at least, not enough of it. Nintendo just publishes it. However, I did some research on the matter. Every source I came up with for Pokemon said Nintendo wholly owns the series. With Golden Sun, it's a little tricky. Nintendo has ownership as they publish it, however, Camelot is the developer. I'm not sure how all the inner workings work, but Camelot would have a lot more say in the matter. The two companies are second party in relation to Nintendo, however, the deal are much different. Camelot is likely in a contract with Nintendo. If their relationship expires (either by the end of the contract or Camelot just leaves) Camelot walks away. If Gsme Freak leave, Nintendo still owns most of Pokemon and can buy out the rest. Because they own 66%, they can have someone else make the games. There is a huge functional difference.

The reason I say this is not because it seems cool. It's a pattern. Nintendo added in many first party titles over second party titles.

Look at the new, non-retro, non-third-party series that made it into Brawl. Pikmin and Wario. There weren't any 2nd party IPs that were as big or important as these two (Pikmin was bigger than GS, more popular, and had Miyamoto power - which is different than first-party bias), it's not like an equally deserving 2nd-party was overlooked, these two IPs were legitimately bigger and more important than the competition, which is why they got in.

Golden Sun was just as big as Pikmin. The Golden Sun games outsold Pikmin by a hair and were very popular games. As Chrono mentioned, it's a reason we got a third game. There were also only 4 Nintendo series in Brawl, so Golden Sun would have not been out of the question. However, the only thing from the games was an assist trophy and a song. Pikmin got a lot more for being a series that was far and beyond comparable to Golden Sun.

Right, so far first-party series have made up the majority of the roster because the most prominent Nintendo series, other than Pokemon (which will continue to be a second party until Nintendo straight up buys either the entire IP or Game Freak), are made up of some of Nintendo's first parties, not because they are given priority or an unequal advantage over second-party, so far they have just been more important and more deserving. Once the 2nd party IPs become among the biggest and most deserving unrepresented series left, we will see if they are still excluded, because then, and only then (or if Sakurai comes out and says something directly on this matter), your point would have some proven truth to it.

The truth is in the results. Nintendo owns all the series that got in. Pokemon is still controlled by Nintendo and most sources say that it is owned by Nintendo (see below). The reason Sakurai ignoring these series on the DOJO is important is because during that time there were tons of second party series coming out. All of them were added as assist trophies, not characters. Golden Sun is an important case because it was bigger than Nintendo's own first party series. That same series got more music, a stage and a whole character. When I mentioned the trophies for Magical Starsign, I mean they get more of a focus. I'm waiting for my theory to be proven wrong, though I doubt it will. If you don't see a second party character in the next one, then I'd say it's true.

Pokémon (ポケモン Pokemon?, pronunciation: /ˈpoʊkeɪmɒn/ poh-kay-mon[1][2]) is a media franchise published and owned by Japanese video game company Nintendo and created by Satoshi Tajiri in 1996.

Golden Sun, released in Japan as Ōgon no Taiyō: Hirakareshi Fūin (黄金の太陽 開かれし封印?), is the first installment in a series of fantasy role-playing video games developed by Camelot Software Planning and published by Nintendo.

 

[kikaru]

Mind pointing out who the guy to the right of Shulk is, the girl between Max and Starfy, and the guy below Waluigi? I'm curious as to who they are.

 

[Opossum]

Pikmin got a lot more for being a series that was far and beyond comparable to Pikmin.

...

Pikmin got more for being like Pikmin? Am I missing something here?

 

[Gene]

Mind pointing out who the guy to the right of Shulk is, the girl between Max and Starfy, and the guy below Waluigi? I'm curious as to who they are.

1. Magnus from Kid Icarus: Uprising

2. Viridi from KI: Uprising

3. The hero character from the Wonderful 101 game for the Wii U. I don't emember his name.

 

[8-peacock-8]

...

Pikmin got more for being like Pikmin? Am I missing something here?

Pikmin 2 got more for being like Pikmin 1.

 

[SmashChu]

...

Pikmin got more for being like Pikmin? Am I missing something here?

I fixed it. Should have been Golden Sun.

Surprised you guys aren't talking about the Micromen more.

 

[lobotheduck21]

at one point in the series you will have to add a second party character

 

[Deleted member]

Microman confirmed for Smash.

 

[SmashShadow]

Isn't it kinda obvious though that Pikmin would get more content because of Olimar being playable or am I missing something?

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think legal issues are as big of a deal in regards to second-party characters as people think.

Sakurai has shown that he's fine with including many Pokémon characters in Smash, despite noting how hard it is to add Pokémon characters in Smash and has also included third-parties in Brawl despite how incredibly difficult it is to get them in the first place and then to fit them in Smash. If Sakurai finds a second-party character worthy of inclusion, he will go out of his way to include one (or even two) despite the legal issues involved. Not to mention we already got plenty of second-party franchises as Assist Trophies. While being an Assist Trophy doesn't necessarily help a character's odd, the fact that Isaac, Saki, Starfy, and Ray were Assist Trophies shows that Sakurai had to go through legal issues to include them at all.

I don't think legal issues is what will prevent a second-party character from being playable. What will ultimately decide if one gets in is if Sakurai thinks one merits a spot.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Ninka's roster Version 1.0
Excuse the Japenese names for certain characters, as I got the art all from one site (minus 3rd party characters)

I'll write up a description for these choices at some point.

imo It was all going perfect untill i saw your bottom row...

Also little thing if F-Zero gets another rep it will defo be Goroh.

 

[yani]

Either or with Custom Robo, it has potential on both systems. As a side thought, it could maybe work as an eShop title?

Brilliant.

 

[lobotheduck21]

looks like there localizing a new pokemon mystery dungeon game,

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon_Mystery_Dungeon:_Gates_to_Infinity

edit: guess they talked about at e3 according to wikipedia

 

[Arcadenik]

I don't think legal issues are as big of a deal in regards to second-party characters as people think.

Sakurai has shown that he's fine with including many Pokémon characters in Smash, despite noting how hard it is to add Pokémon characters in Smash and has also included third-parties in Brawl despite how incredibly difficult it is to get them in the first place and then to fit them in Smash. If Sakurai finds a second-party character worthy of inclusion, he will go out of his way to include one (or even two) despite the legal issues involved. Not to mention we already got plenty of second-party franchises as Assist Trophies. While being an Assist Trophy doesn't necessarily help a character's odd, the fact that Isaac, Saki, Starfy, and Ray were Assist Trophies shows that Sakurai had to go through legal issues to include them at all.

I don't think legal issues is what will prevent a second-party character from being playable. What will ultimately decide if one gets in is if Sakurai thinks one merits a spot.

I suspect that legal issues can potentially drag the development process of the game. There's a reason Sakurai said that adding Pokemon characters are very difficult and he seems to be hesistant about adding third-party characters. Imagine how difficult it would be if half of the newcomers required him to sort through legal issues. And imagine the butthurt cries of the fans when these second-party characters are cut from SSB5 because Sakurai doesn't want to go through the legal issues again.

 

[dezeray112]

So 17 hours ago, Sakurai recently made a reference of him forming specific frames for un-named characters for the new Smash bros; however he was really vague about it. He lightly touched upon it, then started talking about how rare the figures are considering they're officially out of print (and how delicate he had to take the picture)

Any idea who these would be?

Spoiler

Don't you dare say a Smash bros veteran, try to think of a newcomer

I don't know who that stylish girl would be on the right, neither the classy guy on the left

Any ideas

Spoiler

Micromen are free game for speculation; so don't throw the whole red card on the recent article

Not much of an idea who they are, but if I were to have a guess, the left looked almost like
Isaac and I'm not too sure about the right.