Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Opossum]

And even then, it's close enough.

 

[Deleted member]

I think Micaiah would just make a great character choice. She is recent, played a pretty big role in her game, popular, female, a new class type (which she was the first lead character to be one of), and she is still around.

Ike may have "took the spotlight" later on in the game (I haven't got that far yet) but Micaiah was still there, important to the game. And she is the lead character that STARTS OFF THE GAME. Ike comes like halfway through. Soren may be better, although he is not the same kind of mage, but he is a side character. They normally pick lead characters, which Micaiah is one. With enough training, anyone can become good as well. Some need more work than others.

I think she is the best way to diversify the roster.

I also see Advance Wars getting a rep since it is stil around. Same as Sin & Punishment (series returned), Xenoblade (big new IP), Punchout (series returned), Golden Sun (series is still around), and Custom Robo (series is still around).

Oh, well finish the game. You'll see what I mean. Micaiah gets totally pushed aside for Ike, making her a secondary character, like Elinsia level of important.

Have you played other Fire Emblems besides 10?

What are your thoughts on Lyn? I feel she's more important that Micaiah and she can diversify the roster just as much (Kenshin-esque counter-heavy sword user).

I agree on everything else besides AW and Custom Robo being relevant enough for a rep.

I just play it safe with Pokemon and Fire Emblem...Brawl roster, and return Roy and Mewtwo. It avoids mind-numbing speculation about those series particularly.

Bleh, how boring man. Speculation or not, one can hold out hope for something more exciting.

 

[Opossum]

I know, I am boring. My favorite flavor of ice cream? Vanilla. Sometimes I get a bit crazy and make it French vanilla. It's that bad.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Vanilla ice cream can be good in it's own right; especially since it's the most diverse kind of ice cream since it lacks an overwhelming flavor.

 

[Deleted member]

I know, I am boring. My favorite flavor of ice cream? Vanilla. Sometimes I get a bit crazy and make it French vanilla. It's that bad.

Pistachio here, Vanilla

Spoiler

is...

Spoiler

ok

.

 

[Arcadenik]

Pokemon at least has the benefit of being more obvious; usually those choices are related to the popular characters in the franchise. The only one so far that averts this is Ivysaur.

I think that's because Sakurai had no choice... it was either the popular Venusaur or the even more popular Bulbasaur.... Charizard got the 3rd stage evolution... Squirtle got the 1st stage evolution... so we are stuck with Ivysaur to represent the 2nd stage evolution. It's probably because Charizard was more popular than Blastoise and Venusaur... and Squirtle was more popular than Bulbasaur (Charmander was out of the race because of Charizard) so we got Ivysaur by default.

 

[N3ON]

I think Micaiah would just make a great character choice. She is recent, played a pretty big role in her game, popular, female, a new class type (which she was the first lead character to be one of), and she is still around.

She may be a "great choice" (which is subjective), but that doesn't mean she should be treated as a "likely choice", because she's not. Any FE character not named Marth, Ike, Roy, or Chrom pretty much has close to no chance at being playable in SSB4, not because they couldn't work, but just because those four are far and away the most likely.

Ike may have "took the spotlight" later on in the game (I haven't got that far yet) but Micaiah was still there, important to the game. And she is the lead character that STARTS OFF THE GAME. Ike comes like halfway through. Soren may be better, although he is not the same kind of mage, but he is a side character. They normally pick lead characters, which Micaiah is one. With enough training, anyone can become good as well. Some need more work than others.

If the FE character was chosen to rep Radiant Dawn, there's a good chance it would be Micaiah, but the FE character will be chosen to rep FE as a whole, and at this point Micaiah has lost her chance. If timing was different, she might've been likely at one point, but at this point the most she'll get is an AT, and that's only because she is one of the more popular lords in Japan. But she won't be playable.

I also see Advance Wars getting a rep since it is stil around. Same as Sin & Punishment (series returned), Xenoblade (big new IP), Punchout (series returned), Golden Sun (series is still around), and Custom Robo (series is still around).

The sooner you stop thinking we'll be getting an AW, S&P, Xenoblade, Punch-Out, GS, and CR rep, the better. Getting half this many is pushing it, getting all is ridiculous. And don't get your hopes up for a Wars or Custom Robo character, no matter how much you think they deserve a spot.

Sorry, but not going to respond to everything as, honestly, I don't care that much.

Good deflection.
I didn't have anything more to add anyway.

It was just a bit disheartening to know that most of these characters are probably not getting in because they are second-party.

 

[Deleted member]

I think that's because Sakurai had no choice... it was either the popular Venusaur or the even more popular Bulbasaur.... Charizard got the 3rd stage evolution... Squirtle got the 1st stage evolution... so we are stuck with Ivysaur to represent the 2nd stage evolution. It's probably because Charizard was more popular than Blastoise and Venusaur... and Squirtle was more popular than Bulbasaur (Charmander was out of the race because of Charizard) so we got Ivysaur by default.

Well, he could have re-sized Venasaur, it's not too far-fetched:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHG-JO8gIGk

 

[Arcadenik]

I know, I am boring. My favorite flavor of ice cream? Vanilla. Sometimes I get a bit crazy and make it French vanilla. It's that bad.

When I can, I mix it up with vanilla/chocolate swirl or a Neapolitan. Or just get the cookies & cream or black cherry if either are available.

 

[SmashChu]

Big Pokemon announcement coming January 8th.

-Could be anything it seems. Maybe it's new Pokemon?

Diddy Kong Racing coming to Wii U?

Seems like a far shot, but then there is this as well. There is also the fact that there was a rumor of Nintendo negotiating with Rare for IPs. Dillon is also suppose to be in the game according to the rumor.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Don't trust 4chan or GameFAQs for anything, rumor or not.

Also Dillon Rolling Western 2: The Last Ranger has been teased in the first game, which suggests it's really real. Supposedly it involves a fire breathing monk and a gunslinger, and teases "The Last Ranger" as some sort of big secret character of sorts.

 

[Arcadenik]

Smashchu, I know we have had our disagreements in the past but I know you are better than citing GameFAQs as a source.

But GoNintendo as a source sounds good to me... Diddy Kong Racing for the Wii U, huh? I'd like to have the N64 game on Wii Virtual Console. Oh well.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I know, I am boring. My favorite flavor of ice cream? Vanilla. Sometimes I get a bit crazy and make it French vanilla. It's that bad.

My personal favorite is chocolate chip cookie dough, though vanilla is another favorite of mine.

*second party stuff*

I agree with N3ON, I don't think any second party characters have been excluded because they are second party. If that was an issue, there wouldn't have been any second party ATs either. People who think that being second party affects a characters chances are looking for patterns where none exist.

 

[Deleted member]

Big Pokemon announcement coming January 8th.

-Could be anything it seems. Maybe it's new Pokemon?

Diddy Kong Racing coming to Wii U?

Seems like a far shot, but then there is this as well. There is also the fact that there was a rumor of Nintendo negotiating with Rare for IPs. Dillon is also suppose to be in the game according to the rumor.

Gee, I wonder what that Pokemon announcement could possibly be?

Spoiler

Gen 6 on 3DS confirmed for a Summer J release and a Winter Western release

Spoiler

As if we didn't see it coming already

I wouldn't be surprised if that Diddy Kong leak was true. I've seen rumors on /v/ actually come true, and it's not unusual for developera to market/post on /v/. I have a picture somewhere of /v/ trolling the **** out of an Activision Marketeer.

That being said, take it with a grain of salt

Spoiler

make it a cup of salt to be honest.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Spoiler

Gen 6 on 3DS confirmed for a Summer J release and a Winter Western release

I dunno, they could be trolling us.

Spoiler

Black & White 3 for DS confirmed for 2013!

Or something equally ridiculous. Who knows.

 

[FlareHabanero]

The reveal is not going to be Gen 6 games, don't set yourself up for disappointment.

 

[SmashChu]

Don't trust 4chan or GameFAQs for anything, rumor or not.

Also Dillon Rolling Western 2: The Last Ranger has been teased in the first game, which suggests it's really real. Supposedly it involves a fire breathing monk and a gunslinger, and teases "The Last Ranger" as some sort of big secret character of sorts.

I have yet to beat Dillon's Rolling Western, so I would't know. I figured it will come out seeing as "The Last ranger," seems kind of obvious. Of course, I'm all for it.

Smashchu, I know we have had our disagreements in the past but I know you are better than citing GameFAQs as a source.

But GoNintendo as a source sounds good to me... Diddy Kong Racing for the Wii U, huh? I'd like to have the N64 game on Wii Virtual Console. Oh well.

The reason I see this as more likely is the number of similar rumors. Given, they could all be just similar hoaxes by similar people. However, it's strange to think that two rumors of the same game would appear on two different sites and relate to a rumor months prior. There is a lot going for this one.

 

[N3ON]

Big Pokemon announcement coming January 8th.

-Could be anything it seems. Maybe it's new Pokemon?

I'm guessing whatever it is, it has something to do with whoever has been "shadowed" here. I hope it's a new Pokemon, but I suppose it could be a new form for somebody or something.

Diddy Kong Racing coming to Wii U?

Seems like a far shot, but then there is this as well. There is also the fact that there was a rumor of Nintendo negotiating with Rare for IPs. Dillon is also suppose to be in the game according to the rumor.

Banjo and Conker better be in it.

Seriously though, I suppose I could see them making another, and Dillon wouldn't actually be that out of place, but I'm not going to get my hopes up just yet.

But GoNintendo as a source sounds good to me... Diddy Kong Racing for the Wii U, huh?

GoNintendo reports on most rumors that float around, it doesn't actually give any more credence or validity to this rumor, unfortunately.

 

[Arcadenik]

I agree with N3ON, I don't think any second party characters have been excluded because they are second party. If that was an issue, there wouldn't have been any second party ATs either. People who think that being second party affects a characters chances are looking for patterns where none exist.

That's the thing.... they are Assist Trophies, not playable characters. That tells me that first-party Nintendo characters are added to the roster before the second-party Nintendo characters. First-party have priority over second-party, is what the Smash games are telling me. Nintendo cares about first-party IPs more than second-party IPs and Smash fans care about playable characters more than Assist Trophies, items, stages, etc. so put two and two together and you get first-party characters who are playable characters, making both Nintendo and Smash fans happy.

 

[Deleted member]

Nah, the DS is dead now. There is no way Nintendo is gonna let them release another big game on that console.

Pokemon is a console seller, the 3DS could always use more support.

Also, we've never seen a cross-platform generation, although I wouldn't be surprised if Gen5 was the first to do it considering how many 'traditions' that Gen has already broken.

I'm sure it's a new Gen, mark my words. Though if I'm wrong, I wouldn't be too disappointed really, Pokemon has gotten stale for me really, so I don't plan on picking it up, especially since I can't

Spoiler

pirate

it.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

That's the thing.... they are Assist Trophies, not playable characters. That tells me that first-party Nintendo characters are added to the roster before the second-party Nintendo characters. First-party have priority over second-party, is what the Smash games are telling me. Nintnedo cares about first-party IPs more than second-party IPs and Smash fans care about playable characters more than Assist Trophies, items, stages, etc. so put two and two together and you get first-party characters who are playable characters, making both Nintendo and Smash fans happy.

I think the 2nd-party characters were ATs because, AT THE TIME, there were few potential 2nd party newcomers that were as important as most of the 1st party characters. Things have changed though, and there are very few remaining 1st parties who are as important as the available 2nd parties.

And the way I see it, if negotiating w/ second parties was an issue, don't you think the second parties would rather their characters be fully playable than being an AT?

 

[FlareHabanero]

There are hardly any 2nd party characters that merits an inclusion on the roster, and there is still choices out there from the 1st party side of things.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

There are hardly any 2nd party characters that merits an inclusion on the roster, and there is still choices out there from the 1st party side of things.

Only a few that are universally agreed upon, though. IMO most of the 2nd party choices are at least on par with most of the 1st party choices.

 

[Arcadenik]

I think the 2nd-party characters were ATs because, AT THE TIME, there were few potential 2nd party newcomers that were as important as most of the 1st party characters. Things have changed though, and there are very few remaining 1st parties who are as important as the available 2nd parties.

And the way I see it, if negotiating w/ second parties was an issue, don't you think the second parties would rather their characters be fully playable than being an AT?

I'm sure they would.... remember Sakurai said the Assist Trophies are characters who couldn't quite make it in as playable characters. Why couldn't they make it? Maybe it's because they don't/can't really fight or there were legal issues or LOL TIME CONSTRAINTS or the limited number of slots on the roster, I dunno. But the point is, first-party Nintendo characters seem to have priority over second-party Nintendo characters according to Sakurai's actions. Sakurai chose to add first-party characters on the roster before he thought about adding second-party characters. Hell, none of the Forbidden Seven were second-party. For all we know, Starfy might have been the sole second-party character in Brawl based on that oddly placed Starly trophy in the Fighter-Related category. Didn't Sakurai say he planned to add more characters but ran into legal issues? I distinctly remember some people saying that it was Geno that Sakurai had legal issues with.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I'm sure they would.... remember Sakurai said the Assist Trophies are characters who couldn't quite make it in as playable characters. Why couldn't they make it? Maybe it's because they don't/can't really fight or there were legal issues or LOL TIME CONSTRAINTS or the limited number of slots on the roster, I dunno. But the point is, first-party Nintendo characters had priority over second-party characters according to Sakurai's actions.

Even so, I highly doubt that they were given lower priority because of them being second party.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Only three are arguably at least on par with the 1st party stuff: Issac, Saki, and Starfy. However, Issac is out of desperation and Saki is for the hell of it.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

and Saki is purely supported for the hell of it.

And there's a problem with that?

I don't get why people use the low sales of S&P2 against Saki. Treasure is a niche company, there games aren't exactly known for being mega hits. And even if the sales were better, I doubt the franchise would have continued, as Treasure doesn't usually make sequels.

 

[Arcadenik]

Only three are arguably at least on par with the 1st party stuff: Issac, Saki, and Starfy. However, Issac is out of desperation and Saki is for the hell of it.

And what of Starfy?

 

[FlareHabanero]

And what of Starfy?

Starfy is more like a dark horse character. He doesn't come up a lot, but still has a cult status with the group of people that are at least familiar with The Legendary Starfy games.

 

[Arcadenik]

Oh okay... and now that you mentioned Saki... I suspect much of his Western support comes from the Dojo and I quote "He rivals just about any main character. There were many requests from users for his inclusion, and he IS pretty cool, so I did what I could to include him." So, are they supporting Saki because Sakurai likes him or are they supporting Saki because they like him? Sometimes I wonder if some people support Mach Rider because Sakurai likes him or they support Mach Rider because they actually liked the Mach Rider game itself?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I support Saki because he is awesome. I was introduced to him through SSB, but I kept supporting him because he's awesome and unique.

 

[N3ON]

That's the thing.... they are Assist Trophies, not playable characters. That tells me that first-party Nintendo characters are added to the roster before the second-party Nintendo characters. First-party have priority over second-party, is what the Smash games are telling me. Nintendo cares about first-party IPs more than second-party IPs and Smash fans care about playable characters more than Assist Trophies, items, stages, etc. so put two and two together and you get first-party characters who are playable characters, making both Nintendo and Smash fans happy.

Which comparatively more deserving new-series 2nd-party character being omitted for less deserving non-retro first-parties led you to this conclusion?

It's a pattern we have no proof on, and won't have proof on until we get an incredibly deserving 2nd party, more deserving than most of the remaining first-parties, which we still don't have. Deciding this supposed bias is a rule at this point is a huge assumption.

I'm sure they would.... remember Sakurai said the Assist Trophies are characters who couldn't quite make it in as playable characters. Why couldn't they make it? Maybe it's because they don't/can't really fight or there were legal issues or LOL TIME CONSTRAINTS or the limited number of slots on the roster, I dunno. But the point is, first-party Nintendo characters seem to have priority over second-party Nintendo characters according to Sakurai's actions. Sakurai chose to add first-party characters on the roster before he thought about adding second-party characters. Hell, none of the Forbidden Seven were second-party. For all we know, Starfy might have been the sole second-party character in Brawl based on that oddly placed Starly trophy in the Fighter-Related category. Didn't Sakurai say he planned to add more characters but ran into legal issues? I distinctly remember some people saying that it was Geno that Sakurai had legal issues with.

The amount of random assumption and guessing here is ridiculous. Sakurai's actions seem to dictate that he adds characters based on the prominence of their series. The series he had added at the time of Brawl were, not counting AC and Nintendogs, Nintendo's largest and most popular. He didn't omit 2nd parties because they were 2nd parties, he omitted them because they weren't as prevalent, prominent, or popular as the ones included. He's not going to add a random less popular series over one that clearly deserves it more. Other than Pokemon, Nintendo's first-parties are larger than its second parties, which is why they were included first. There has been no concrete proof second-parties are viewed as "lesser" by Sakurai yet.

None of the Forbidden 7 were from a new series in general, first or second party. This is just speculation, but it's likely because of how much more effort including a new series is (no matter what type of party) when compared to a character from an existing series. These characters were the ones on the chopping block - no matter if they made it or didn't, Sakurai wouldn't have had to adjust stages, trophies, stickers, music, etc to a major extent, like he would for a new series.

The Starfy stuff is pure guessing, it shouldn't be treated as anything more than a theory.

 

[FlareHabanero]

The main problem with Saki being supported is that it feels like more of a secondary thought more then true passion, which kinda feels shallow in general. At least with Issac there was a feeling of caring since people were concerned with the franchise being in a dormant state.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Oh, well finish the game. You'll see what I mean. Micaiah gets totally pushed aside for Ike, making her a secondary character, like Elinsia level of important.

Have you played other Fire Emblems besides 10?

What are your thoughts on Lyn? I feel she's more important that Micaiah and she can diversify the roster just as much (Kenshin-esque counter-heavy sword user).

I agree on everything else besides AW and Custom Robo being relevant enough for a rep.



Bleh, how boring man. Speculation or not, one can hold out hope for something more exciting.

Actually I think of it as more Micaiah and Ike were duo main characters. I may not have finished yet, but I have seen a part where they work together. So they do become co leaders and whatnot.

Micaiah has a chance regardless, I think she is one of the top choices.

I even see that she is more likely than Lyn. Micaiah was in a game during the Wii and DS generation, Lyn was not. She is only still around being DLC in Awakening. Since we would only get one Awakening character most likely, why use it on a DLC? Why not a character from the actual story? Like Chrom?

And besides being more recent, I would believe Micaiah is more popular now. Lyn has pretty much lost popularity since her game and missed her shot with Brawl, which was based off of Gamecube and GBA mainly. The latter where her game was. She was thrown to the AT side when they were actually looking at her game, what is so different now that she is DLC? Being DLC should make her DLC while character choices like Micaiah and Chrom get on the roster.

It is more of believing that Fire Emblem should have a totally different class to diversify it, and not another type of sword user. More sword users can be in Smash Bros but no more than Chrom for Fire Emblem. Leaving room for Micaiah. I would rather have sword users like Isa (Gun-Sword), Matthew (Sword User with Psyenergy and Djinn), Shulk (Monado), Ghirahim (Magic Sworduser), Takamaru (Samurai Sword) and Travis Touchdown (Beam Katana w/ Wrestling Moves). Ones you know can be totally different and rep other necessary franchises.

I have played other Fire Emblem games. The only one I have beaten has been Path of Radiance though. I am getting back to those sooner or later. It is just I am playing other games now.

I am holding out for exciting and diverse characters. I posted most wanted, realistic, characters and choices here. A lot of them would have different movesets. Making them unique. That is how I am speculating for the game. Something with more new franchises repped. More with diverse character movesets.

 

[---]

The main problem with Saki being supported is that it feels like more of a secondary thought more then true passion, which kinda feels shallow in general. At least with Issac there was a feeling of caring since people were concerned with the series.

Really? I personally haven't gotten that vibe yet, unlike the Mario/Pokemon/FE series and the Black Shadow fanbase.

Personally I like S&P (even though I have yet to finish it), and I agree with Sakurai in that Saki has a lot to offer Smash gameplay wise and would fit in nicely. He also seems like another ROB/Mr. G&W/Roy in that he's obscure but people will like him once they have a chance playing as him.

 

[Arcadenik]

IMO, the only deserving second-party series at the time of Brawl was Golden Sun (2 games) and Legendary Starfy (4 games). Golden Sun was very popular in the West while Legendary Starfy was very popular in Japan. I would have liked Isaac and Starfy in Brawl.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I never did see the appeal of Golden Sun that much compared to pretty much everything else; Golden Sun felt kinda generic in general. Then again it's probably my gluttonous appetite for RPG's speaking to me, which probably tainted my vision of Golden Sun being anything notable.

 

[ChronoBound]

That Diddy Kong Racing Wii U rumor is interesting. It says that it will only have three DK characters in it (Diddy and two others). Dixie was a playable character in Diddy Kong Racing DS. Assuming this game is real, and assuming Dixie shows up in it, then Dixie Kong will have actually made an appearance since 2008, unlike K. Rool.

If Dixie Kong experiences a surge in popularity, I expect the K. Rool fanbase to return to having a much colder attitude toward her.

 

[Arcadenik]

That Diddy Kong Racing Wii U rumor is interesting. It says that it will only have three DK characters in it (Diddy and two others). Dixie was a playable character in Diddy Kong Racing DS. Assuming this game is real, and assuming Dixie shows up in it, then Dixie Kong will have actually made an appearance since 2008, unlike K. Rool.

If Dixie Kong experiences a surge in popularity, I expect the K. Rool fanbase to return to having a much colder attitude toward her.

Tiny Kong confirmed.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Again, bull rumors shouldn't be trusted when it came from 4chan and GameFAQs.