Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Deleted member]

All this dampy discussions in regards to video games makes me sad.

As much as I prefer being an adult to being a child, if there's one thing I miss about my childhood, it's the entertainment I enjoyed during the late 1990s/early 2000s.

I'm sure the Wii-U will turn out to be a decent console, though I'm not sure if it's going to be as good as the Wii (say what you will, I do think the Wii was a very good system). I also think that the Wii-U will beat the SNES in sales and end somewhere between 50-75 million in it's lifespan. What really worries me is if Microsoft and Sony are going to ban used games on their platforms. It'd be a horrible idea and it shouldn't happen, but if it does, then I think the PS4 and 720 are going to fail (and if they succeed, encourage Valve (they're making a new console, right?) and Nintendo to follow the same path as well), leaving Nintendo and Valve as the only competitors.

I'd be lying if I said I wanted a Wii-U before a N64, GBA, SNES, etc. The only reason why I'm getting a Wii-U as soon as possible is because I can have one in store so I don't have to fight for one once Smash 4 is out.

Which is going to be a kick in the teeth once Nintendo realizes that relying on only the big names all the time will lead to their downfall.

There is only so much Mario we can tolerate, you know what I mean?

I feel as Nintendo will eventually suffer as well. The funny part is that for the Wii-U, the launch games I actually want are all third-parties. Which is ironic, considering how much the Wii is lambasted for third-party support (there are plenty of good third-party games on the Wii, they just didn't sell well for the most part).

It will be a relief once I get a Wii-U since that means I don't have to worry about getting another modern gaming system ever again. Now to figure out what to do with my $500 spare change...

 

[N3ON]

Honestly the only series that is looking bleak is Sin & Punishment, to which I can't remember, is it 1st or 2nd party. Nintendo owns the rights but Treasure develops it?

To be clear, I agree with the "never say never" mentality, I don't think getting another game from some of these series is impossible, just fairly unlikely, in their current state. Series like Starfy are still decently profitable (especially in the new market it broke into), so I wouldn't be surprised if/when we eventually get another Starfy game. Honestly I'm surprised we haven't seen one in the last couple years. The others (Golden Sun, Wars) I'm not holding my breath for. Xenoblade I can see getting a follow-up though.

I'd agree really the only one that I would be entirely taken aback and totally caught off-guard if it gets another sequel is Sin & Punishment, even if Saki gets in SSB4. And yeah, S&P is owned by Nintendo, but developed by Treasure (who were commissioned by Nintendo to create an IP for them - Nintendo still holds the rights).

Which is going to be a kick in the teeth once Nintendo realizes that relying on only the big names all the time will lead to their downfall.

There is only so much Mario we can tolerate, you know what I mean?

Except unlike some other publishers, Nintendo has quite a few still-profitable IPs, not just one or two, even if many of the minor ones are disappearing.

I agree that investing in some new major IPs and 3rd party exclusives would probably be in Nintendo's best interest though.

 

[Deleted member]

There's always Miyamoto's new IP that we can look forward to. He still hasn't announced that yet.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

For some reason this made me think of moving on from C-List games and waiting silently if anything happens to them. Their future seem bleak at best.

But who knows, could even be that the new IPs might take their place, unless they also fall from face of the gamers because they're not Mario or something else popular.

 

[SmashShadow]

At least they threw us a bone with Pikmin 3. Although it does seem like many of nintendo's lesser known stars are shrinking in appearance, it's really too early to tell. Wii U has only been out for a couple months. With any hope Nintendo Land shows they have some interest left in F-Zero as well.

 

[---]

Nintendo has more series than any other gaming company out there, honestly it's a miracle they're able to give them equal attention (a term that I'm using loosely). Compared to a lot of other series at other companies their futures aren't all that bleak.

The business world can be cruel, but that doesn't mean there's not hope.

Maybe it's because I'm not too involved with any of those series, but the fact that you're all acting so dim is a real downer. Just look on the bright side, there are a lot more options for C-Tier series this time around, it may not be a new entry but Smash gives all of Nintendo's IPs the love they deserve (except Startropics :/).

 

[lobotheduck21]

Kind of wish nintendo would make trading cards of their characters, people love those and it can provide some marketability

 

[Opossum]

All of Nintendo's C-Listers could use some more time in the limelight, but I suppose that's why they're C-Listers to begin with.

Starfy especially could use it. The series is 10 years old, so before September, a sort of compilation of the Starfy games would be really nice. That way the other four can get to the United States, as well. Just a pipe dream, but I'd personally enjoy it. I haven't been able to play the first four, but loved the fifth. Way to keep me waiting, Nintendo and TOSE.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Nintendo has more series than any other gaming company out there, honestly it's a miracle they're able to give them equal attention (a term that I'm using loosely). Compared to a lot of other series at other companies their futures aren't all that bleak.

The business world can be cruel, but that doesn't mean there's not hope.

Maybe it's because I'm not too involved with any of those series, but the fact that you're all acting so dim is a real downer. Just look on the bright side, there are a lot more options for C-Tier series this time around, it may not be a new entry but Smash gives all of Nintendo's IPs the love they deserve (except Startropics :/).

I dunno, it's hard to see. Brawl was a good chance for some C-list series but they were shafted. Now things are worse with them so it's bit harder to see them being included, since I doubt Sakurai wants to add "undeserving" characters just to beef up the roster. (We dunno what series he means but we all assume speculated it's most of the series that are not Pikmin or Animal Crossing).

With all this, it's np wonder why we're feeling downed. And even if we have more options for C-list series, Sakurai had even said that he might have to opt on making some significant changes to Smash Bros in this upcoming installment because the characters being left to add is becoming scarce.

Opossum: Goshers, you should try 3rd. I think it's what I consider the pinnacle of Starfy-games. Yet have to see 4th though which adds some new upgrades (magic meter)

 

[---]

I dunno, it's hard to see. Brawl was a good chance for some C-list series but they were shafted. Now things are worse with them so it's bit harder to see them being included, since I doubt Sakurai wants to add "undeserving" characters just to beef up the roster. (We dunno what series he means but we all assume speculated it's most of the series that are not Pikmin or Animal Crossing).

With all this, we have a good reason to feel rather downed.

Not being playable isn't the end of the world.

Either way things have changed since Brawl, many series have come back or gotten more sequels. That said, one does have to take into account that not every series is right for being playable either (sales don't matter and popularity is only 1 of criteria).

Honestly I don't know why you're feeling down when there's when there's still a future, new game or Smash, for those franchises. You don't see the Mother fanbase getting this upset.

 

[lobotheduck21]

Not being playable isn't the end of the world.

Either way things have changed since Brawl, many series have come back or gotten more sequels. That said, one does have to take into account that not every series is right for being playable either (sales don't matter and popularity is only 1 of criteria).

Honestly I don't know why you're feeling down when there's when there's still a future, new game or Smash, for those franchises. You don't see the Mother fanbase getting this upset.

Kind of hard not to be worried when looking at Star Fox and F-Zero

 

[ChronoBound]

To be clear, I agree with the "never say never" mentality, I don't think getting another game from some of these series is impossible, just fairly unlikely, in their current state. Series like Starfy are still decently profitable (especially in the new market it broke into), so I wouldn't be surprised if/when we eventually get another Starfy game. Honestly I'm surprised we haven't seen one in the last couple years. The others (Golden Sun, Wars) I'm not holding my breath for. Xenoblade I can see getting a follow-up though..

Those are my predictions as well.

I have said this before, but after Smash 4, there will be a lot more major fanbase collapses than there was after Brawl was released. I don't think there will be any characters that get some requests now that won't experience a massive dropoff if they don't get into Smash 4.

The only exceptions that I can think of would be if a Mario newcomer were to get in Smash 4 (let's say its Toad), then I could still see Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, and Waluigi having a lot of requests for Smash 5. The same goes for K. Rool and Dixie Kong, if one of them gets in Smash 4 but the other does not, then the one who failed to get in will probably be within the Top 5 most wanted newcomers for Smash 5. After that, any existing characters that would still have large request fanbases after Smash 4 would probably be C-list Nintendo series protagonists who managed to get a new installment for their series after Smash 4's release.

Aside from that, it will pretty much be Mario characters (and maybe one DK character) dancing in a graveyard as far as Smash 5's newcomer pool is concerned amongst characters that already exist now.

 

[Deleted member]

Not being playable isn't the end of the world.

Either way things have changed since Brawl, many series have come back or gotten more sequels. That said, one does have to take into account that not every series is right for being playable either (sales don't matter and popularity is only 1 of criteria).

Honestly I don't know why you're feeling down when there's when there's still a future, new game or Smash, for those franchises. You don't see the Mother fanbase getting this upset.

The difference between the Mother franchise and the Golden Sun franchise is that the Mother franchise is finished and already wrapped up it's conclusion. Golden Sun: Dark Dawn, which is supposed to be the first installment in the main story, could be Golden Sun's last installment and leave fans bitter that the franchise never got to finish.

 

[N3ON]

Honestly I don't know why you're feeling down when there's when there's still a future, new game or Smash, for those franchises. You don't see the Mother fanbase getting this upset.

The Mother series didn't stop getting games due to diminishing success of the games, and the series doesn't have an unsure future to even be optimistic or pessimistic about, because they know what the future of their series entails sequel-wise. Like SSBF also said, that series has been wrapped up, unlike some of the other series.

Plus the Mother series has multiple playable characters in Smash, which will always keep its popularity afloat.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Not being playable isn't the end of the world.

Either way things have changed since Brawl, many series have come back or gotten more sequels. That said, one does have to take into account that not every series is right for being playable either (sales don't matter and popularity is only 1 of criteria).

Honestly I don't know why you're feeling down when there's when there's still a future, new game or Smash, for those franchises. You don't see the Mother fanbase getting this upset.

Mother-series has been finished, and we have their reps in Smash, which pretty much keeps them alive despite the series' being finished.

The other series seem to leave potential for continuation and none words have said about them being finished (and like SSBF said, Golden Sun really stands in this because Dark Dawn was left in a cliffhanger)

And again, we're just fearing that these series are gonna be forgotten or be thought generally as not profiting for Nintendo, leaving them for a hiatus for long time, and see them doing more games for the A-franchises.

 

[BKupa666]

As harsh as this may sound, the extinction of some smaller franchises is inevitable, just due to how many of them exist. Maybe, in a decade or so, their stars will become the retro/WTF characters of the future?

 

[Deleted member]

Those are my predictions as well.

I have said this before, but after Smash 4, there will be a lot more major fanbase collapses than there was after Brawl was released. I don't think there will be any characters that get some requests now that won't experience a massive dropoff if they don't get into Smash 4.

The only exceptions that I can think of would be if a Mario newcomer were to get in Smash 4 (let's say its Toad), then I could still see Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, and Waluigi having a lot of requests for Smash 5. The same goes for K. Rool and Dixie Kong, if one of them gets in Smash 4 but the other does not, then the one who failed to get in will probably be within the Top 5 most wanted newcomers for Smash 5. After that, any existing characters that would still have large request fanbases after Smash 4 would probably be C-list Nintendo series protagonists who managed to get a new installment for their series after Smash 4's release.

Aside from that, it will pretty much be Mario characters (and maybe one DK character) dancing in a graveyard as far as Smash 5's newcomer pool is concerned amongst characters that already exist now.

I'd argue Mega Man could also fit into the pool if he gets a new game as well as any cut Brawl veterans (providing any are cut). Ray is one character I would say will come up as a potential candidate for Smash 5 since I do expect him to get an installment sometimes this generation (along with Starfy).

But yeah, the pool after Smash 4 is practically a graveyard. I am starting to doubt that we will see a Smash 5 because there is no way I see us getting five or less newcomers for a Smash game in a game that focuses around characters more than any other fighting series.

As harsh as this may sound, the extinction of some smaller franchises is inevitable, just due to how many of them exist. Maybe, in a decade or so, their stars will become the retro/WTF characters of the future?

I don't think any C-list characters not named Little Mac would be retro characters in the future that Sakurai would seriously consider.

 

[---]

The Mother series didn't stop getting games due to diminishing success of the games, and the series doesn't have an unsure future to even be optimistic or pessimistic about, because they know what the future of their series entails sequel-wise. Like SSBF also said, that series has been wrapped up, unlike some of the other series.

Plus the Mother series has multiple playable characters in Smash, which will always keep its popularity afloat.

The difference between the Mother franchise and the Golden Sun franchise is that the Mother franchise is finished and already wrapped up it's conclusion. Golden Sun: Dark Dawn, which is supposed to be the first installment in the main story, could be Golden Sun's last installment and leave fans bitter that the franchise never got to finish.

Mother-series has been finished, and we have their reps in Smash, which pretty much keeps them alive despite the series' being finished.

The other series seem to leave potential for continuation and none words have said about them being finished (and like SSBF said, Golden Sun really stands in this because Dark Dawn was left in a cliffhanger)

And again, we're just fearing that these series are gonna be forgotten or be thought generally as not profiting for Nintendo, leaving them for a hiatus for long time, and see them doing more games for the A-franchises.

I was using Mother as an example, as unlike other series it doesn't have a future.

All the series that you guys have listed still have things going for them new game or even a mention (which is what it often takes to get the interest train started again), the latter they all for sure have thanks to Smash. Have some hope and patience, complaining and bring other people down with you doesn't solve anything, it's not over it till it's over. Look to the future like you are with Smash 4 and E3.

 

[ChronoBound]

No other comments on my previous comment?

I have a feeling this may also be the last Smash Bros. game that Sakurai directs. Sakurai only directed four games in the Kirby series (Kirby's Dream Land, Kirby's Adventure, Kirby Superstar, and Kirby's Air Ride), so Smash 4 might be the last time he is in the director's seat.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I presume Sakurai won't direct the next installment, but will be a supervisor instead for whoever directs the next installment.

 

[---]

No other comments on my previous comment?

I have a feeling this may also be the last Smash Bros. game that Sakurai directs. Sakurai only directed four games in the Kirby series (Kirby's Dream Land, Kirby's Adventure, Kirby Superstar, and Kirby's Air Ride), so Smash 4 might be the last time he is in the director's seat.

Yeah I agree the Mario characters will be all powerful, though I do think there'll still be a few Non-Mario characters depending on what Nintendo has plans for in the future, who makes it in this game, and of course Pokemon/Fire Emblem.

I can also see this being the last game he directs, I'm certainly going to treat it as such like I did with Brawl. I get the feeling that he wants to try some of his developing talents on some new/other series, well besides that mystery retro revival game he wants to work on after Smash 4. I can definitely see him giving advice to the new director of Smash 5 however.


@SSBF: I just realized that you've been pranked.

Spoiler

Blast someone beat me to it.

lol

 

[ChronoBound]

Yeah I agree the Mario characters will be all powerful, though I do think there'll still be a few Non-Mario characters depending on what Nintendo has plans for in the future, who makes it in this game, and of course Pokemon/Fire Emblem.

I mentioned in the post that I was talking about characters that already exist. Obviously the new flavors of the month for Pokemon and Fire Emblem will get a decent amount of requests for Smash 5.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Flavor of the Month is kinda the reason why I'm so hesitant with a lot of Pokemon for inclusion. This is because they gain support for a small while, then fall off the map completely. It happened to Victini, Meloetta, and it seems to be starting with Genesect too.

This is why I want to stay firmly with Zoroark for now, since it's the only consistent one so far when it comes to newcomers for Pokemon.

 

[SmashShadow]

I was using Mother as an example, as unlike other series it doesn't have a future.

All the series that you guys have listed still have things going for them new game or even a mention (which is what it often takes to get the interest train started again), the latter they all for sure have thanks to Smash. Have some hope and patience, complaining and bring other people down with you doesn't solve anything, it's not over it till it's over. Look to the future like you are with Smash 4 and E3.

Wasn't there supposed to be some upcoming thing for the Mother series? Regardless or not if it's just a remake or something that would still generate some interest in the series.

 

[Deleted member]

@---: Yeah I've noticed as well and was surprised that it wasn't you.

Flavor of the Month is kinda the reason why I'm so hesitant with a lot of Pokemon for inclusion. This is because they gain support for a small while, then fall off the map completely. It happened to Victini, Meloetta, and it seems to be starting with Genesect too.

This is why I want to stay firmly with Zoroark for now, since it's the only consistent one so far when it comes to newcomers for Pokemon.

I don't think Genesect is going to fall off the chart for support for awhile. There's still Genesect's movie that has to come out so I see his popularity steadily rising with it peaking shortly after the American premiere of the 13th movie (or when 6th gen is announced).

 

[SmashChu]

No other comments on my previous comment?

I have a feeling this may also be the last Smash Bros. game that Sakurai directs. Sakurai only directed four games in the Kirby series (Kirby's Dream Land, Kirby's Adventure, Kirby Superstar, and Kirby's Air Ride), so Smash 4 might be the last time he is in the director's seat.

I would likely leave after that. I don't trust the series with anyone else.

Also, I do think we are talking about Smash 5 a bit early.

 

[Dub24M]

I would like to see knuckles and shadow to back up sonic megaman would be a great addition since capcom is a part of the mix now too skull kid would be cool too though

 

[8-peacock-8]

Wasn't there supposed to be some upcoming thing for the Mother series? Regardless or not if it's just a remake or something that would still generate some interest in the series.

http://mushroomtomatoes.com/2012/12/a-earthboundmother-re-release-is-in-production/

 

[3Bismyname]

I would like to see knuckles and shadow to back up sonic megaman would be a great addition since capcom is a part of the mix now too skull kid would be cool too though

unless Sega becomes a second party developer or something before Smash 4 comes out, I dont ever want to see any other Sonic characters make it.(Even then i would rather another Sega IP like Alex Kidd or Billy Hatcher) especially someone like Shadow who is easy clone bait (I am aware that Shadow has differences but his basic skills are still remnant of Sonic). and Capcom hasn't confirmed in any way shape or form to be involved in smash as of yet.

 

[MasterMushroom]

So 17 hours ago, Sakurai recently made a reference of him forming specific frames for un-named characters for the new Smash bros; however he was really vague about it. He lightly touched upon it, then started talking about how rare the figures are considering they're officially out of print (and how delicate he had to take the picture)

Any idea who these would be?

Spoiler

Don't you dare say a Smash bros veteran, try to think of a newcomer

I don't know who that stylish girl would be on the right, neither the classy guy on the left

Any ideas

Spoiler

Micromen are free game for speculation; so don't throw the whole red card on the recent article

 

[Robert of Normandy]

The guy looks like he might be in a boxing stance. Little Mac maybe? nvm,just noticed the open palm.

Looks like he might be firing some kind of energy blast or spell. Isaac or Ryu maybe? Though Ryu doesn't angle his Hadoukens.

No idea about the lady to me. I know you said no vets, but she looks a bit like Sheik or ZSS.

Edit: Could you post a link to when he said this(was it in a tweet?)? And could someone give a direct translation?

 

[FlareHabanero]

Keep in mind that the figures are not always 100% accurate when it comes to positioning and shape.
For example, the one one on the left could be someone like Takamaru or it could be something like Ridley.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Keep in mind that the figures are not always 100% accurate when it comes to positioning and shape.
For example, the one one on the left could be someone like Takamaru or it could be something like Ridley.

Hm, yeah, that clenched fist could be him holding his sword. Though I don't know about the open palm, and I think he'd keep both hands on his sword, but maybe not.

 

[3Bismyname]

Looks like he might be firing some kind of energy blast or spell. Isaac or Ryu maybe? Though Ryu doesn't angle his Hadoukens.

He does when he's jumping. but idk i kind of see the one on the left being a new stance for maybe ZSS or maybe Sheik myself. the one on the left idk about.

 

[MasterMushroom]

Could you post a link to when he said this(was it in a tweet?)?

https://twitter.com/Sora_Sakurai/status/284249058929946624
https://twitter.com/Sora_Sakurai/status/284250206617337856

Both of them have a lot of retweets and favorites, especially the second one

 

[Robert of Normandy]

He does when he's jumping. but idk i kind of see the one on the left being a new stance for maybe ZSS or maybe Sheik myself. the one on the left idk about.

Ho, he always fires his Hadoukens straight forward, even in the air. The only Shoto who angles their fireballs down is Gouki/Akuma. Ryu also doesn't whoot his one handed, either.

Actually, you know who fires their fireballs one-handed and fires them downward in midair? Ryo Sakazaki, the main character of the Art of Fighting series. Though I doubt it's him.

 

[Deleted member]

Didn't Sakurai state not to overspeculate? I don't think these figurine means anything.

 

[3Bismyname]

your right i was totally thinking of Akuma my bad

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Didn't Sakurai state not to overspeculate? I don't think these figurine means anything.

But I think it's fun. Also, didn't he indicate it was Sm4sh related? 'Course, I don't understand Japanese, so I could be wrong.

 

[Deleted member]

I can verify that the 2nd link posted does indeed mention the figures being used for Smash reference by Google Translate.
"Take a picture posing in a "movable element assembly Microman" Most people kind-type, skill of "Smash Bros." are instructed to specify frame. But whether the body has been crushed with what is around the time of "X", so valuable out of print, but now it is using one of the photo carefully the body."