Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Deleted member]

I have a theory about the Palutena support being quiet.

You know how characters like Krystal, Lyn, and Minda hang onto the idea of being female somehow makes them viable and anything said otherwise is worse then the apocalypse?

I dunno about anyone else, but my personal support for Lyndis is mainly because I want a counter-happy Battousai-esque character in Smash (like Haku-men + Baiken hybrid), and I've been a fan on Lyn and Ike as FE7 and 9 were my first two FE games, and thus those two are my favorite lords in the series.

Wow nice video, I think I remember playing Dragon Quest now, or a game similar to it in a DS game called Retro Game Challenge.

Glad you liked it. His videos are very informative to be honest. I've actually never played a DQ game before, but after watching his videos, I've definitely made sure to get my hands on DQ I II and III.

Alright, If you create new thread then please send me a link. I'm definitely interested in this kind of discussion as lurker.

Megaman moved more when Sonic was revealed. He was there, but he didn't really move until Sonic got announced.

Economy Thread Right here guys:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=15180778#post15180778

 

[BKupa666]

Is there any chance that Palutena's fanbase is less loud than one would expect for its size, just because she's considered some supporters aren't necessarily fans of Palutena herself? Based on my observations, many early Palutena fans migrated over to her from Medusa (who, until Uprising released, was the infallible "shoo-in"), based on her prominence in Uprising and the expectation that Kid Icarus will receive a second character. From there, her support snowballed quite a bit, though the fact that it really began out of expectation rather than want may have led some supporters to remain silent, since as far as they're concerned, she's inevitable.

 

[3Bismyname]

everyones fanbases are pretty overstated imo. like i think its funny that people believe Megaman will make it purely because he has vocal fan support, but in reality there's a lot ridding against him as well. but hey if they lead in polls than more power to em.

 

[FlareHabanero]

All fan support is technically a bandwagon at this point. Some are more blunt then others, but there are generally people that will support a character because they like him/her for the character and not for the expectations.

 

[BKupa666]

That's just it. I think Palutena may be the one notable exception to that. For all intents and purposes, her original supporters wanted "Second Kid Icarus character," whoever that ended up being between the two goddesses.

 

[ChronoBound]

Is there any chance that Palutena's fanbase is less loud than one would expect for its size, just because she's considered some supporters aren't necessarily fans of Palutena herself? Based on my observations, many early Palutena fans migrated over to her from Medusa (who, until Uprising released, was the infallible "shoo-in"), based on her prominence in Uprising and the expectation that Kid Icarus will receive a second character. From there, her support snowballed quite a bit, though the fact that it really began out of expectation rather than want may have led some supporters to remain silent, since as far as they're concerned, she's inevitable.

I am having some difficulty understanding this post. However, initially yeah, there was more support for Medusa because she was a "twofer" (female and villain), and also there was some doubts about whether Palutena could fight. There were also a lot of people who thought that Kid Icarus would even get two newcomers (Palutena and Medusa). Medusa was primarily supported for her attractiveness and the belief that she was extremely likely due to Sakurai developing Uprising.

When Uprising was released, it was found out that Medusa had a much smaller role than was thought, and it was proven that Palutena could indeed fight. Many people were also endeared with Palutena's personality in Uprising.

Basically Palutena had everything going for her in terms of being a female character:
- Physically attractive (unfortunately, this is one of the most important requirements for a female newcomer for a lot of people)
- Actual importance in her series (the series is even named after Palutena in Japan, and Palutena was basically Pit's partner in Uprising)
- Revival game developed by Sakurai, so Sakurai is very familiar with the character.
- Very likable as a character (Uprising in general had some very well-written dialogue and characters)
- Major game was very recent in respect to when Sakurai started developing Smash 4 (basically started working on Smash 4 as soon as Uprising was finished)
- From a critically and commercially successful game

There is no other female character that comes close to the resume that Palutena has going for her. The closest would probably be Dixie Kong, but even she has some issues.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Palutena is kinda like Zelda in a sense of being important enough to be mentioned in the title and having a notable presence with the protagonist (in this case, Pit), but is usually regulated to the sidelines and is a damsel in distress.

 

[ChronoBound]

Palutena is kinda like Zelda in a sense of being important enough to be mentioned in the title and having a notable presence with the protagonist (in this case, Pit), but is usually regulated to the sidelines and is a damsel in distress.

Palutena has reminded me a lot about Zelda as well. In Smash Bros., there has been a tendency to add the sidekick/side protagonist over the main antagonist (see Luigi, Zelda/Sheik, Falco, Diddy Kong, and maybe Meta Knight).

 

[BKupa666]

That's where some people see an alleged pattern. I believe I've argued that, by the same pattern, villains are each series' third relresentative, based on Bowser, Ganondorf, arguably Mewtwo before his cut, Dedede and Wolf.

When Palutena gets in, she and Zelda will probably be quite a popular pairing, since Link and Pit were already teamed, both in the SSE and an event match.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Anyway, the bandwagon thing is kinda true when you think about it. Usually it's a justified bandwagon because of importance or general popularity, other times it's more along the lines of "flavor of the month", and sometimes it feels completely absurd like in the case of Geno or Skull Kid. It kinda depends, and sometimes it's hard to tell.

 

[Big-Cat]

Is there any chance that Palutena's fanbase is less loud than one would expect for its size, just because she's considered some supporters aren't necessarily fans of Palutena herself? Based on my observations, many early Palutena fans migrated over to her from Medusa (who, until Uprising released, was the infallible "shoo-in"), based on her prominence in Uprising and the expectation that Kid Icarus will receive a second character. From there, her support snowballed quite a bit, though the fact that it really began out of expectation rather than want may have led some supporters to remain silent, since as far as they're concerned, she's inevitable.

And it's highly likely this is why people aren't supporting this or that character either. A lot of characters like Lyn, Krystal, Geno, etc., were deemed unlikely after Brawl for a variety of reasons.

Personally, I just want Krystal since I like the character and I'd like to see a staff fighter, especially if she can be a little reminiscent of Litchi, Kilik, or Seung-Mina.

 

[ChronoBound]

Personally, I just want Krystal I'd like to see a staff fighter, especially if she can be a little reminiscent of Litchi, Kilik, or Seung-Mina.

But we are already going to get Palutena as a staff fighter.

 

[Big-Cat]

But we are already going to get Palutena as a staff fighter.

Don't be a smartass.

One, we already have six sword users so that's irrelevant. Two, a staff for "magic" (or whatever Palutena uses) and a combat staff (even with projectiles and stuff) are two entirely different things. As a melee weapon, a magic staff would be more akin to a spear or lance, but that's stretching it.

 

[ChronoBound]

As a melee weapon, a magic staff would be more akin to a spear or lance, but that's stretching it.

We already got Waddle Dee covered for a spear user. Plus, he's actually from a game that is recent, critically acclaimed, and sold very well (over 500K in Japan alone, more than Skyward Sword even), which is more than I can say for Krystal.

The last game Krystal has been in is over six years old, and there is more and more people clamoring for a reboot of the series when/if there is ever a true new installment. At this point, its more likely than not that the next installment is going to be a reboot, especially considering how long it has been since Command.

 

[Big-Cat]

Do you think I honestly care? I want the character in the game. Simple as that. I don't need to come up with a bunch of contrived reasons as to why.

 

[ChronoBound]

Do you think I honestly care? I want the character in the game. Simple as that. I don't need to come up with a bunch of contrived reasons as to why.

Then just say you want the character in because you like the character. When you use arguments like "moveset potential" its silly because Brawl basically debunked it.

 

[FlareHabanero]

On an unrelated note, I'm going to post my Smash limited roster, with only one representative per franchise and no third party characters. It's 20 characters by the way.

As for the hypothetical scrapped characters, they will converted to an assist character role and compliment each individual character. Mario's assist would be Luigi, Link's assist would be Zelda, and so on.

 

[ChronoBound]

On an unrelated note, I'm going to post my Smash limited roster, with only one representative per franchise and no third party characters. It's 20 characters by the way.

As for the hypothetical scrapped characters, they will converted to an assist character role and compliment each individual character. Mario's assist would be Luigi, Link's assist would be Zelda, and so on.

That is pretty good for a 1-character per franchise roster.

 

[Big-Cat]

Yeah, I say that all the time. It just so happens that I think she'd bring a lot to the table to so deal with it.

And of course, there are several different characters I want in for a number of reasons. I'm not the biggest fan of Isaac, but you'd have to be dumb to not see the potential in his playstyle just from his Move attack alone. I want Tom Nook because I like raccoons and raccoon like animals and I think the contrast in his origins would fit in an island of misfits.

 

[ChronoBound]

Yeah, I say that all the time. It just so happens that I think she'd bring a lot to the table to so deal with it.

The thing that you also need to deal with is that there is also a lot more animosity towards the character (Krystal) this time. There is a number of reasons for this.

Krystal is one of the few characters from a veteran series that could very well disappear if she fails to get into Smash 4 as a playable character, so I would expect an Isaac-like surge for the character.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Considering that Krystal is pretty loathed, there isn't going to a surge akin to Issac.

Aside from the ignorant of course.

 

[ChronoBound]

I think K. Rool is another example of a character getting an "Isaac boost". I think part of what's driving part of K. Rool's fanbase is a fear about his future in the DK series (and the rest of the Rare DK cast aside from Diddy). Any other examples anyone else can think of a character having an "Isaac boost" (that is a character getting even more support despite a lack of game appearances due to a fear about that character's future, and a belief that a playable appearance in Smash Bros. will clear the cloudy horizons for that character)?

 

[FlareHabanero]

There is the other DK character, Dixie Kong, too to consider.

Saki, Starfy, and Little Mac support follows a similar pattern to Issac, but much more subtle and less enforced.

Arguably Palutena due to the fact Kid Icarus isn't going to be continued for a long time, unless someone else comes in to say otherwise.

 

[ChronoBound]

There is the other DK character, Dixie Kong, too to consider.

Saki and Starfy support follows a similar pattern to Issac, but much more subtle.

Arguably Palutena due to the fact Kid Icarus isn't going to be continued for a long time.

Dixie Kong is pretty much in K. Rool's shadow though, so we can't really see much into what her fanbase is thinking, though I think they have the same anxiety as K. Rool's.

Saki's fanbase has basically disappeared, though I agree he is another character whom the future of his series depends on him making a playable appearance in Smash 4.

As for Starfy, its weird how he never took off as a popular choice despite having an international release that sold very well, and five games under his belt. I am even more surprised as to why a new Starfy has not been made since 2008. I think Starfy might be another C-list series whose future is in doubt, though there should be no reason for this (especially considering how well Starfy 5 did internationally, thought Starfy 5 was the lowest selling game in the series in Japan).

I don't think there is any anxiety for the Palutena fanbase, I think they are very confident that Palutena is going to get in (the same thing goes for Takamaru's fanbase).

 

[FlareHabanero]

Takamaru isn't a guarantee choice, as much as I want it to be.

Mysterious Murasame Castle is kinda like Kid Icarus in the fact it was designed as a sister game to The Legend of Zelda, but with the dormant problem amplified. Kid Icarus at least had the benefit of a global release, a sequel, appearances in comic and cartoons, and even cameos in games. Mysterious Murasame Castle failed to do that, and the series flew under the radar through the 80's and 90's even among more hardcore Nintendo fans.

What's weird is that all of the cameos for Mysterious Murasame Castle started with Pikmin 2, and has steadily made several more to the point of Takamaru himself making an appearance. While it seems that Nintendo is trying to slowly bring back the game Mysterious Murasame Castle into the lime light, I'm worried it might not be quite big enough to make the jump to Super Smash Bros. stardom. Remember that the game is still very obscure even by Super Smash Bros standards and it was only released in Japan, which might hurt the chances somewhat.

But the idea of Takamaru would be very appealing from a design standpoint, considering the Japanese aesthetic has a certain appeal that attracts people to it. I would also be fond of the idea of Takamaru and Link or Pit teaming up together.

 

[IntelliHeath1]

Takamaru isn't a guarantee choice, as much as I want it to be.

Mysterious Murasame Castle is kinda like Kid Icarus in the fact it was designed as a sister game to The Legend of Zelda, but with the dormant problem amplified. Kid Icarus at least had the benefit of a global release, a sequel, appearances in comic and cartoons, and even cameos in games. Mysterious Murasame Castle failed to do that, and the series flew under the radar through the 80's and 90's even among more hardcore Nintendo fans.

What's weird is that all of the cameos for Mysterious Murasame Castle started with Pikmin 2, and has steadily made several more to the point of Takamaru himself making an appearance. While it seems that Nintendo is trying to slowly bring back the game Mysterious Murasame Castle into the lime light, I'm worried it might not be quite big enough to make the jump to Super Smash Bros. stardom. Remember that the game is still very obscure even by Super Smash Bros standards and it was only released in Japan, which might hurt the chances somewhat.

But the idea of Takamaru would be very appealing from a design standpoint, considering the Japanese aesthetic has a certain appeal that attracts people to it. I would also be fond of the idea of Takamaru and Link or Pit teaming up together.

Pretty much. I really agreed with you. I have been Takamaru supporter ever since Brawl era, and I'm not going to give up on him. Not Yet!

 

[ChronoBound]

I am looking at a Smash 4 roster I made in 2008 (or maybe 2009). Looking back on it, it seems to be something that Young Horsetail would probably think of as a dream come true.

My 2008/2009 Smash 4 roster was:
- Everyone from Brawl returns.
- Mewtwo and Roy return (with new movesets)
- Ganondorf has a new moveset

Newcomers:
Toad
K. Rool
Tingle
Ridley
Black Shadow (takes Ganondorf's Melee/Brawl moveset)
Little Mac
Isaac
Ray (Custom Robo)
Starfy
Lip
Diskun
Mega Man

53 total playable characters

I made my own movesets for all the newcomers on the roster (even wrote out the new movesets for Mewtwo, Roy, and Ganondorf).

Its really interesting looking back on this roster for 2008/2009, since a lot of those characters I have as newcomers are no longer seen as likely for Smash 4.

 

[MarioNPinkie]

True Ogre for Sm4sh.

true ogre as a final smash and ogre as a playable character

 

[ChronoBound]

I would share my movesets if there is some interest in them. I know I already posted my decloned Dr. Mario moveset in the Dr. Mario support topic, so that should give you an idea on what to expect for my movesets that I made back in 2008/2009.

 

[N3ON]

I am looking at a Smash 4 roster I made in 2008 (or maybe 2009). Looking back on it, it seems to be something that Young Horsetail would probably think of as a dream come true.

I also recently stumbled across my oldest SSB4 roster (at least the oldest I can remember making) from around 2009 IIRC.

- Everybody, minus Lucario, returns from Brawl
- Mewtwo was re-added

Newcomers:
Bowser Jr.
King K. Rool
Tingle
Ridley
Samurai Goroh
Krystal
Isaac
Starfy
Little Mac
Balloon Fighter
Sukapon
Mega Man

Because I knew the game wasn't coming out any time soon, at that time I also left three gaps in the roster which would be filled in the future: one for new Pokemon character (Zoroark), one for a new FE character (which I actually filled with Roy after considering both him and Chrom), and one for a future IP (Shulk).

50 slots/54 characters

Overall, a few things that now look pretty unlikely (namely Sukapon), but overall I'd say it isn't terrible (for 2009), which is pretty good for a first draft. Since then I've removed Tingle, Goroh, Krystal, Starfy, Balloon Fighter, and Sukapon, and added Palutena, Takamaru, Mii, and Lucario again, in addition to the three already mentioned.

I would share my movesets if there is some interest in them. I know I already posted my decloned Dr. Mario moveset in the Dr. Mario support topic, so that should give you an idea on what to expect for my movesets that I made back in 2008/2009.

I'd definitely be interested in how you envisioned some characters, like the veterans, Lip, and especially Diskun. And Ridley, because I figure you've been thinking about how he would play the longest.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I am looking at a Smash 4 roster I made in 2008 (or maybe 2009). Looking back on it, it seems to be something that Young Horsetail would probably think of as a dream come true.

My 2008/2009 Smash 4 roster was:
- Everyone from Brawl returns.
- Mewtwo and Roy return (with new movesets)
- Ganondorf has a new moveset

Newcomers:
Toad
K. Rool
Tingle
Ridley
Black Shadow (takes Ganondorf's Melee/Brawl moveset)
Little Mac
Isaac
Ray (Custom Robo)
Starfy
Lip
Diskun
Mega Man

53 total playable characters

I made my own movesets for all the newcomers on the roster (even wrote out the new movesets for Mewtwo, Roy, and Ganondorf).

Its really interesting looking back on this roster for 2008/2009, since a lot of those characters I have as newcomers are no longer seen as likely for Smash 4.

Ya weren't kidding when saying this would be a roster I'd die for.

But do post your movesets. If anything, you could put the in the General Moveset Thread.

Anyway, looked at GameFAQs for a long time and dear God, the amount of people bashing Lloyd for not being "Pac-Man" is beyond ridiculous. They say he's not as well-known, seems to just appeal at Tales-fans, is more generic compared to him and Pac-Man has more history with Nintendo than him. But foremost thing being "People know Pac-Man more than Lloyd".

Have they even played (or alternatively read or watched) Tales Of Symphonia? I didn't and after playing it to half-way, I can see why it's deserving for a cult status in history of GCN-age. Not to mention the followup was solely on Wii (though some slam it as inferior to the first one).

But nonetheless, it's stupid to see how people bash Lloyd because he's not Pac-Man. Reminds me of that R.O.B-pic Star posted showing ROB having Ridley's mask and asking "Do you like me now?".

 

[FlareHabanero]

People knowing Pac-man more the Lloyd is not exactly a false statement considering Pac-man is a iconic figure for the video game industry on par with characters like Mario and Sonic. You'd be lying if you didn't know who Pac-man was.

I guess another reason for people being hesitant with Lloyd is because of diversity reasons. Takamaru, Shulk, and Chrom are on the horizon and third party slots are limited, so naturally people would be more interested with something else.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Well yeah, I acknowledge all this. But it still upsets me to hear him getting bashed because "he's not Pac-Man".

 

[Diddy Kong]

Mewtwo doesn't even need a new moveset I feel. Just buffs. Major buffs. And Roy would do fine with some Luigified moveset, and honestly, that's the best I can expect from him...

 

[FlareHabanero]

But it still upsets me to hear him getting bashed because "he's not Pac-Man".

Well of course Lloyd is not Pac-man. Lloyd isn't a walking yellow head that wears red shoes and gloves with a big creepy smile 24/7.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Well of course Lloyd is not Pac-man. Lloyd isn't a walking yellow head that wears red shoes and gloves with a big creepy smile 24/7.

That's the point. This is like Ike (or to them in GFS, Isaac) getting bashed because he's not a fat mustached plumber who jumps on things and has wondrous adventures.

But in any case, I'll keep on supporting Lloyd. It's good to see he's been wanted on a Smash-games due SSF2 and even a custom PSA model character for Brawl. Have to yet see Pac-Man getting this kind of dedication.

 

[Opossum]

Personally, I'd like to see what you did for Diskun, Chrono.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Appearing in Super Smash Bros. Flash 2 is hardly honorable considering the bull of including anime characters out of pure fanboyism and (earlier) "original character donut steel" characters.

 

[Deleted member]

But in any case, I'll keep on supporting Lloyd. It's good to see he's been wanted on a Smash-games due SSF2 and even a custom PSA model character for Brawl. Have to yet see Pac-Man getting this kind of dedication.

By all means, Naruto and Goku should be supported as such as well.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

By all means, Naruto and Goku should be supported as such as well.

Appearing in Super Smash Bros. Flash 2 is hardly honorable considering the bull of including anime characters out of pure fanboyism and (earlier) "original character donut steel" characters.

So Lloyd's support isn't real. I see.