Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Robert of Normandy]

(I'd prefer a Dragon Quest character though.)

Same here, since Dragon Quest is more associated with Nintendo that FF is(especially lately).

Though, like others have said, an SE rep is unlikely, since SE tends to be very anal about letting other companies use their characters.

 

[Deleted member]

Yes but Japan knows to appeal to not only Japan but to appeal to America. FF and KH is very big in America and I don't think Dragon Quest is as big here. So for the sake of us being such an important country I think they'll add them.

I doubt it, if Nintendo manages to strike a deal with SE, you can BET their not gonna pass off the chance to use DQ. If we consider Smash an all-star game of historic representations, DQ is way more deserving than any other SE franchise.

Also, I'm sure the Japanese DQ fanbase is bigger than the Western FF/KH fanbase. So if you were a company trying to reap profit what would you do?

 

[Orange Fox]

Is Dragon Quest really that good?

 

[8-peacock-8]

I personally adore Dragon Quest.

It's not my favorite JRPG series; (my favorite is Shin Megami Tensei) but its deffinately a franchise I'd recommend.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Is Dragon Quest really that good?

It's certainly influential. Keep in mind that DQ1 predates FF1. It's a massive cultural phenomenom in Japan.

 

[Deleted member]

Is Dragon Quest really that good?

Here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sglKS-HfZMw

I personally adore Dragon Quest.

It's not my favorite JRPG series; (my favorite is Shin Megami Tensei) but its deffinately a franchise I'd recommend.

>SMT

Aaaaaaand Friend Request SENT.

 

[8-peacock-8]

>SMT

Aaaaaaand Friend Request SENT.

Aaaaaand accepted.

 

[Orange Fox]

Here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sglKS-HfZMw

Problem with the link, Youtube gave an error

 

[8-peacock-8]

Problem with the link, Youtube gave an error

Refresh the page.

 

[Deleted member]

Problem with the link, Youtube gave an error

Did it?

I'm watching it now... Hmm.

Try this:
http://youtu.be/sglKS-HfZMw

If not, search for "CianOfTheGrayWolf," "Dragon Quest Retrospective," or "16-bit Gems #30 Rise of the RPG."

 

[Big-Cat]

You got to look at it internationally here. Final Fantasy has more appeal outside of Japan (I think.).

 

[Orange Fox]

Actually having problems with all Youtube videos. Maybe it's my Flash. I'll fix it and watch the video when i can.

 

[Deleted member]

Final Fantasy has more appeal outside of Japan.

I have no idea. Thanks to the current state of the FF franchise, the fanbase, and the Dissidia Series which *******ized the old FF games, I have a lot of negative bias toward FF. Don't get me wrong I love FF4 and FF6, but it's difficult for me to give you a fair opinion on that, as I couldn't care any less about the franchise and it's characters (same goes for KH).

 

[IntelliHeath1]

Oh and your RichDad sources were too biased (Read: US centric) to be a credible prediction of the future Asian Economy, not to mention your sources said nothing about Japan and its future so my point made a couple days back still stands. I'm not sure where you got your info on that, as my sources say otherwise, and I don't know WHERE you heard that Singapore of all countries is going to be an economic titan.

As it stands it is still generally agreed on that Russia, China, India, Korea, Japan, Vietnam, and Thailand will be the leaders of the East, and Brazil, Mexico and to a lesser extent Chile, Colombia and Argentina the leaders of Latin America as the future pillars of the world economy (by 2050). If you want to further discuss this I'll gladly make a thread for it in the offtopic section so we don't derail this one.

Alright, If you create new thread then please send me a link. I'm definitely interested in this kind of discussion as lurker.

 

[Arcadenik]

Dragon Quest VIII was my first Dragon Quest game. I was amazed with the graphics and the battle system and the vast in-game world and the storytelling and the characters, especially Yangus.

I still need to get the DS remakes (4, 5, 6, 9) and of course the upcoming 3DS remake (7). Just wish that they were available on Wii Virtual Console. They were on the NES and SNES.

If a Dragon Quest character gets in Smash, I am pretty sure it will be Slime.

 

[Graizen]

 

[8-peacock-8]

Problems: Too many Kid Icarus characters, Too many third parties, and thats all the obvious stuff.

I do like the choices though.

 

[Deleted member]

@N3ON: Interesting. Seems I've underestimated ol' Layton's chances, then.

@Manly: Here: http://www.officialnintendomagazine...acter-would-ono-like-to-appear-in-smash-bros/

 

[N3ON]

[COLLAPSE="Image"]

[/COLLAPSE]

Is this a character pool, a prediction, or a wishlist?

Either way, about ~2/3 are decent choices. If it's a character pool, I would really consider dropping Magnus, Villager, Black Knight, Rayman, Agumon, Agent J, Team Rocket, Maxwell, Viridi, Bayonetta, Mona, Ray, and W101 Guy.

@N3ON: Interesting. Seems I've underestimated ol' Layton's chances, then.

I wouldn't say it greatly improves his chances or anything, it's not like Hino will definitely pursue his addition the same way Kojima did. Chances are it won't have an effect at all, I just thought it was interesting to note.

 

[Deleted member]

I feel that there could have been a private discussion about it that we don't know about.
Not that I feel Layton is now super likely, but at least he's not as unlikely as I initially thought.

 

[ChronoBound]

Here is an excerpt from some Smash Bros. DS design document I made in 2004. It deals specifically with characters (the excerpt), lol at what I wrote about Meta Knight back then:

The Roster

My idea for Super Smash Bros. DS is for it to have 14 characters in it. The reason why there is 14 characters is that I feel that a lot of new characters should be added to whenever the next Smash Bros. is made for Nintendo’s future home console. There should be only a few great newcomers added to a portable Smash Bros., it should not be the true successor to Melee (this would be more of how Mario Kart: Super Circuit was more of an analogue to Super Mario Kart than Mario Kart 64). A true and proper Smash Bros. 3, would have the entire cast from Melee, the new characters from Smash DS, as well as at least 14 new characters to the franchise.

However, despite Smash Bros. DS’s roster having roughly the same size as the original Smash Bros. for the Nintendo 64, over 1/3 of the roster will be made of new characters to the Smash Bros. series, not having been playable in Super Smash Bros. Melee.

The roster will consist of the following:
Mario
Bowser
Link
Ganondorf
Pikachu
Mewtwo
Samus
Ridley (NEW)
Kirby
Meta Knight (NEW)
Fox
Wolf (NEW)
Toad (NEW)
Wario (NEW)
Fourteen playable characters total.

As can be seen overall theme to this game will be rivalry. Half of the roster will be made up of heroes, while the other half will be of villains or antagonists. The starting roster will consist of the heroes, which are all characters that were playable in Super Smash Bros. Melee, with the exception of Toad. The villains will all be hidden characters, all but three of which, are characters entirely new to the Smash Bros. series.

New Character Reasoning

Wario, Ridley, Meta Knight, and Wolf are all extremely popular Nintendo characters. According to polls on the message boards on a multitude of different video game sites, most of the people who answered them requested that these four characters be made playable in the next Super Smash Bros. installment.

Wario:
Wario has a lot of games under his (bulging) belt. He has not only one, but TWO series (Wario Land and WarioWare). His popularity has soared to great heights thanks to the WarioWare series.

Ridley:
Since the revival of the Metroid series, Ridley’s popularity has quintupled. He has starred in five out of six games in the Metroid series. Both the developers and fans of the Metroid series consider Ridley to be Samus’s true arch-nemesis. His role in the series is leader of the Space Pirates, the main antagonist force of the series. A lot of people wanted Ridley for Melee, and even more people want Ridley playable NOW.

Meta Knight:
Meta Knight has been somewhat of a side character for the Kirby series, being a knightly rival to Kirby and antagonistic in many of his appearances. His playable appearances in Nightmare in Dream Land and Kirby’s Air Ride, has made his popularity surpass that of King Dedede, making him the favorite for a new Kirby character in Smash Bros. However, there are some Smash Bros. fans that are concerned with putting Meta Knight in because he may become a “cheap” character. For example, Meta Knight as a character has fast speed, good jumping, and a sword. They think that Meta Knight must be properly balanced before being added as a playable character.

Wolf:
A lot of people were expecting Wolf for Super Smash Bros. Melee due to his appearance in the Melee intro (the same was true for Ridley and Samurai Goroh). Instead, Falco got in. However, despite this, there is still a hunger (or rather a howl) for Fox’s rival. However, there is a worry that Wolf would be too aesthetically similar to Fox to place in or, that Wolf would be yet another clone of Fox. However, Wolf being a… wolf, means that he would fight very ferally and ferocious unlike the more honorable and disciplined Fox McCloud.


Toad:
Toad will be a “pleasant surprise” character. For example, most people were not expecting Mr. Game & Watch to be a playable character in Super Smash Bros. Melee, but were happy to see that he had made the list. Even the original Smash Bros. added an oddity in the name of Jigglypuff, so adding a stranger, less notable new character is within the history of the Smash Bros. series. Toad also seems like the most appropriate rival for Wario. Toad had to fight Wario’s minions in the classic puzzle game Wario’s Woods for the NES and SNES (Wario’s Woods for the NES was also a playable game in Animal Crossing). Toad will also have the unique ability to run up walls like he did in Wario’s Woods.

 

[Deleted member]

However, there are some Smash Bros. fans that are concerned with putting Meta Knight in because he may become a “cheap” character. For example, Meta Knight as a character has fast speed, good jumping, and a sword.

Well, they weren't wrong, were they?

 

[lobotheduck21]

Ya the only way to get a SE character is to let them develop the game, and I'd much rather have namco then SE on a fighting game

 

[Deleted member]

It's really interesting to see your thoughts on pre-Brawl stuff before E3 '06. I will admit, a Smash Bros. DS would have been neat and I would have kept mine if one had been released.

 

[ChronoBound]

It's really interesting to see your thoughts on pre-Brawl stuff before E3 '06. I will admit, a Smash Bros. DS would have been neat and I would have kept mine if one had been released.

Wario and Meta Knight were definitely Top 5 characters before Brawl's unveil. Other characters that were really high up before Brawl's unveil were Ridley, Diddy Kong, King Dedede, Pit, and Wolf.

It was really after Brawl's unveil that you saw a large change in character request dynamics.

I think we will see something similar when Smash 4 is unveiled, though far more veterans from the pre-Brawl days means that a lot of craziness will be contained (though probably only on SmashBoards).

 

[Orange Fox]

Wow nice video, I think I remember playing Dragon Quest now, or a game similar to it in a DS game called Retro Game Challenge.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Also after the release of Brawl, many things happened to change the character request dynamic.

-Shulk was introduced via the critically acclaimed Xenoblade.
-Takamaru got a boost in interest thanks to Captain Rainbow, Samurai Warriors 3, Nintendo Land, and game designer Hideki Kamiya's interest in a Mysterious Murasame Castle revival.
-Palutena in Kid Icarus: Uprising obtaining popularity.
-King K. Rool and Dixie Kong receiving large boosts in requests, arguably because of the absence in Donkey Kong Country Returns and Diddy Kong no longer stealing the spotlight.
-Toad increased in interest thanks to the New Super Mario Bros. games.
-Namco Bandai's involvement caused an increased interest in Pac-man, Tekken, and Tales characters.
-General paranoid feelings causing increased requests in varies characters like Issac and Starfy.
-New Fire Emblem and Pokemon characters causing mass hysteria over inclusion.
-The forbidden 7 characters, notably Roy and Mewtwo.
-A notable decrease in requests with varies characters like Lyn, Krystal, Geno, Tom Nook, and Dark Samus.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Habanero: By paranoid you mean they support these characters with lower chances than they think? I don't want to feel like that.

 

[FlareHabanero]

No, paranoid because of the ambiguous fate of the franchises in question.

For example, people want Issac because they don't want Golden Sun to be dead after the underwhelming reception of Golden Sun: Dark Dawn.

 

[lobotheduck21]

Not to mention the complete collapse of f zero and star fox

 

[ChronoBound]

Also after the release of Brawl, many things happened to change the character request dynamic.

-Shulk was introduced via the critically acclaimed Xenoblade.
-Takamaru got a boost in interest thanks to Captain Rainbow, Samurai Warriors 3, Nintendo Land, and game designer Hideki Kamiya's interest in a Mysterious Murasame Castle revival.
-Palutena in Kid Icarus: Uprising obtaining popularity.
-King K. Rool and Dixie Kong receiving large boosts in requests, arguably because of the absence in Donkey Kong Country Returns and Diddy Kong no longer stealing the spotlight.
-Toad increased in interest thanks to the New Super Mario Bros. games.
-Namco Bandai's involvement caused an increased interest in Pac-man, Tekken, and Tales characters.
-General paranoid feelings causing increased requests in varies characters like Issac and Starfy.
-New Fire Emblem and Pokemon characters causing mass hysteria over inclusion.
-The forbidden 7 characters, notably Roy and Mewtwo.
-A notable decrease in requests with varies characters like Lyn, Krystal, Geno, Tom Nook, and Dark Samus.

You about summed it up. I would also add in that Little Mac got a boost from Punch-Out Wii.

Ridley and Mega Man are the only two characters that remained constant (though Mega Man moved up a lot too from where he was during pre-Brawl).

 

[SmashChu]

Ridley and Mega Man are the only two characters that remained constant (though Mega Man moved up a lot too from where he was during pre-Brawl).

Megaman moved more when Sonic was revealed. He was there, but he didn't really move until Sonic got announced.

 

[ChronoBound]

Megaman moved more when Sonic was revealed. He was there, but he didn't really move until Sonic got announced.

Mega Man was in the Top 10 most wanted newcomers during pre-Brawl (after Brawl's unveil). He was not a Top 5 character though (though he may have been after Diddy Kong, Sonic, and King Dedede were confirmed).

 

[FlareHabanero]

I think Mega Man getting a boost in requests was also because of Sakurai's statement regarding Capcom characters. Also kinda helps that Capcom would be perfectly okay with the inclusion and the general popularity of the Mega Man franchise.

For me, Mega Man would probably be a very welcome addition, arguably more so then even Sonic.

 

[Big-Cat]

-A notable decrease in requests with varies characters like Lyn, Krystal, Geno, Tom Nook, and Dark Samus.

I still feel this is grossly misinterpreted. Characters like Palutena and Shulk have vocal requests, mostly because they're the "in" characters. The ones you mentioned were very vocal pre-Brawl, but not so much now. This could be because some don't want to have to deal with dumb arguments (Krystal thread), everything's been said and done, or simply have other things to worry about while still wanting these characters.

 

[Graizen]

Is this a character pool, a prediction, or a wishlist?

Either way, about ~2/3 are decent choices. If it's a character pool, I would really consider dropping Magnus, Villager, Black Knight, Rayman, Agumon, Agent J, Team Rocket, Maxwell, Viridi, Bayonetta, Mona, Ray, and W101 Guy.



I wouldn't say it greatly improves his chances or anything, it's not like Hino will definitely pursue his addition the same way Kojima did. Chances are it won't have an effect at all, I just thought it was interesting to note.

Its the most wanted until now i think!

 

[Opossum]

By you or in general?

 

[ChronoBound]

I still feel this is grossly misinterpreted. Characters like Palutena and Shulk have vocal requests, mostly because they're the "in" characters. The ones you mentioned were very vocal pre-Brawl, but not so much now. This could be because some don't want to have to deal with dumb arguments (Krystal thread), everything's been said and done, or simply have other things to worry about while still wanting these characters.

Palutena has one of the most quiet fanbases around. There has been quite a few discussion as to why Palutena has such a quiet fanbase despite being the most wanted female newcomer for Smash 4 and why most female characters had such loud, obnoxious fanbases.

Characters such as Geno, Krystal, Dark Samus, Midna, and Lyn had very large drop-offs in requests after Brawl was released. There is a multitude of reasons for each character's large drop-off.

For Krystal, the reason you gave are not one of them. For one, the points brought up by people in the Krystal thread, are actually legitimate concerns about the character.

 

[Opossum]

I still stand by the opinion that most Palutena supporters are just confident that she'll make it, seeing as there really is no other strong fanbase for a Kid Icarus character anymore.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I have a theory about the Palutena support being quiet.

You know how characters like Krystal, Lyn, and Minda hang onto the idea of being female somehow makes them viable and anything said otherwise is worse then the apocalypse? Palutena doesn't seem to do that, mainly because there are far more justifications for inclusion. She is not loathed like Krystal, she is not minor like Minda, and it's not lopsided when it comes to regional support like Lyn. As such there is very few complaints and everyone is generally happy with the inclusion.

It kinda helps that Kid Icarus: Uprising gave her abilities and character, which prior to that made Palutena a mysterious figure who usually made cameos at best.