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I do. Like everyone else I played Melee for years but I never felt that I was getting any better. Watching all the competitive stuff online and trying to attempt some of it myself (like Wavedashing) was the final kick in the bucket for me. Melee being too hard is one of the reasons I never post in the Melee forums, that and the downright mean attitude they often have towards Brawl and Sakurai.
But you were still able to play the game, even if it was at a very low level. Not having a smooth transition between low and high level is a different problem altogether, and one that could be solved without forcing high level players to play on the same level as beginners.
And, from my experience, there are just as many Brawl fans who are rude and offensive to people who like/prefer Melee.
I think that feeling comes with the territory if your not facing people competitively. After I beat level 9's on the game easily I started to feel there was nothing left for me to learn in both games. When I saw YouTube videos I learned differently. Yeah it was harder to learn Melee advanced techniques but it gave me more of a sense of accomplishment than learning brawl ones. Nothing feels better that a well executed combo.
But you were still able to play the game, even if it was at a very low level. Not having a smooth transition between low and high level is a different problem altogether, and one that could be solved without forcing high level players to play on the same level as beginners.
And, from my experience, there are just as many Brawl fans who are rude and offensive to people who like/prefer Melee.
I'm not trying to argue anything in particular, I just have had a better experience playing competitively with Brawl than Melee. I don't feel that high level players have been forced to do anything as I still think there is a gap between low and high level play. As for fanboys, they're just plain bad in general so lets leave it at that.
Either way I can see emotions are going way to far into this, it's Christmas Eve we don't need any "Bah Humbugs" today. Let's just stop these pointless arguments, Smash 4 (if we're relating any of this stuff back to it) is going to be different than any of the previous games anyway.
There were some. You'll be surprised at some of the mistakes people could make. One reason why you have lock on edges is because it was very easy to die for facing the wrong way.
On this topic: what people forget is what is the heart of Smash. What is the soul. Smash, at heart, is not a competitive fighting game. When Sakurai made Brawl, he was fixing his mistakes with Melee. He was returning the game back too it's roots. Melee was the worst selling game of the three in Japan and it relied on US sales. I figure Sakurai saw problems in Japan.
Again, Smash fans don't want another Melee. Many people may not have been around for it, but normal Smash fans HATED Smashboards and competitive Smash. They still do, but they do say much since Sakurai made Brawl for them. In the Pre-Brawl days, there was much laughing and pointing fingers at them. There were also the tier wars. Many normal Smash Brothers players didn't like hearing that their character sucked because they didn't do well in a tournament none of them attended. This is why "teirs are for queers," came up a lot. Go look at old flash videos (Brawl taunts might have it)and you'll hear it come up. There is a huge disdain from Smash fans which is another reason Sakurai is not trying to make Smash that way. It's also why it's mutually exclusive.
That's because the Gamecube sold like rubbish in Japan, it had nothing to do with quality of the games.
The Gamecube in general sold like rubbish no thanks to the Playstation 2, but it notably sold better in America then other regions. So it makes sense why a lot of the Gamecube's games sold better in America then other regions. Super Mario Sunshine, Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker, Mario Kart: Double Dash, Star Fox: Assault, F-Zero GX, Kirby's Air Ride, Super Smash Bros. Melee to name a few all sold better in America then any other region.
That's because the Gamecube sold like rubbish in Japan, it had nothing to do with quality of the games.
The Gamecube in general sold like rubbish no thanks to the Playstation 2, but it notably sold better in America then other regions. So it makes sense why a lot of the Gamecube's games sold better in America then other regions.
But you were still able to play the game, even if it was at a very low level. Not having a smooth transition between low and high level is a different problem altogether, and one that could be solved without forcing high level players to play on the same level as beginners.
And, from my experience, there are just as many Brawl fans who are rude and offensive to people who like/prefer Melee.
Yeah, I've encountered quite a bit of Brawl Nazis myself for preferring Melee, and I'm not even one of the people who did stuff like wavedashing on a regular basis.
I have a question regarding the rooster.This'll make me feel retarted i feel........
People here hate the Idea of a new mother rep. On the 20 or 21, Shigesato Itoi came out and said he was working on a project regarding mother. Something along the lines of a rerelease. COuld this effect another char getting into the rooster if it is a rerelease of the original in america?
Keep in mind that the Wii and Gamecube are leagues apart when it comes to sales.
Melee sold about 7 million copies, which is a fairly impressive number in it's own right. This is even more impressive when you consider that about 20 million Gamecubes were sold over it's life time (nearly 13 million of which came from American sales). Super Smash Bros. Melee was the #1 sold title for the system, and it stayed that way for a long time.
While 10 million may sound impressive on paper, there are almost 100 million Wii's sold out there and Brawl failed to be a top seller for the console. It sold very well, but it failed to become the #1 title like it's predecessor. This is mainly contributed to the more casual focus of the system compared to the more hardcore Gamecube.
I have a question regarding the rooster.This'll make me feel retarted i feel........
People here hate the Idea of a new mother rep. On the 20 or 21, Shigesato Itoi came out and said he was working on a project regarding mother. Something along the lines of a rerelease. COuld this effect another char getting into the rooster if it is a rerelease of the original in america?
I personally don't mind another Mother rep since I love the series. But I guess I can see why many don't want another. You certainly won't see me complaining if Sakurai included another Earthbound character. But I won't really care eitherway if he doesn't include one. That's just my opinion on the matter really. ^^'
This is incorrect. THere are more casuals than hardcores, and more money in casuals.(hence nintendo being more of a casual company)
Brawl had alot more competition from great games on it's system than Melee. PLus sales wise there are games that just did better. However if you look up "Top 10 wii games" You'll always get a smash bros brawl on the list
As far as Melee being "too hard" compared to Brawl, it's kinda debatable for me. I found getting all the trophies to be more feasible in Melee for instance, despite how much of a pain Diskun was to get.
Okay I wish this won't turn into another Melee VS Brawl-debate. There's two sides between the coin on this.
So anyway, which it should be? Content over gameplay? Or Gameplay over content? KIU had balanced this with GREAT CONTENT and GREAT GAMEPLAY, which might show that it's not much of a stretch to ask for great gameplay mixed with lots of good content. And would Sakurai strive to make another Brawl technically because that's his definition of what Smash Bros should be like?
Within the top 5 Wii game sales on the Wii, 4 were Mii games(Wii Sports, Wii Play, Wii Fit, Wii Sports Resort respectively) . All of which qualify as super casual games with very little depth in gameplay.
I have a question regarding the rooster.This'll make me feel retarted i feel........
People here hate the Idea of a new mother rep. On the 20 or 21, Shigesato Itoi came out and said he was working on a project regarding mother. Something along the lines of a rerelease. COuld this effect another char getting into the rooster if it is a rerelease of the original in america?
I certainly hope so. A Mother rerelease would be awesome, and anything would do really. Personally hope for someone like Porky, who was in both EarthBound and Mother 3. But Ninten might work to.
Btw, Merry Christmas.
Jesus was born in the summer.
Also about Brawl vs Melee:
Yes, Melee was better on the competitive side, sure. It had far more options to go offensively, had a far more skill rewarding system, Mewtwo, speed, better stages, Mewtwo...
But I still like Brawl better for it's cast of characters and more playstyles. Besides, Diddy is still a very technical character so Brawl still satisfied me on that regard (not that I played Melee in tournaments). Also, I actually get people to play this game against me. NOBODY ever wanted to play Smash 64 or Melee against me cause I was "too good".
I actually suck badly and always forget ATs lolz. I'm even famous for forgetting about Diddy's bananas.
@nessokman
I'm not sure what you trying to point out here. Sales DO matter. And of the the 2 platforms Wii's were largely driven from more casual games. It defeats your point to use a non-sale driven argument because all you're showing is that the greatest games on the Wii didn't sell as well as the casual ones which is not the case on the Gamecube.
Okay I wish this won't turn into another Melee VS Brawl-debate. There's two sides between the coin on this.
So anyway, which it should be? Content over gameplay? Or Gameplay over content? KIU had balanced this with GREAT CONTENT and GREAT GAMEPLAY, which might show that it's not much of a stretch to ask for great gameplay mixed with lots of good content. And would Sakurai strive to make another Brawl technically because that's his definition of what Smash Bros should be like?
No offense but your last post that I much agreed on kinda started it.
Definitely think it should be content, but it really depends on what both sides have to offer in said game. And the last question, I'm sure he will strive to make SSB4 be most like Brawl. Long as that doesn't make it essentially just a Brawl 2.0 then I should be happy enough with it.
Me and like everyone I know found Galaxy 2 to be "meh" compared to the first one (though still a good game!). Things like that is why IGN's one of the last sites I would trust when it comes to ratings or reviews. It's all opinion anyway, whether rated or written by a so-called "professional" or not.
I think that's what starts so much conflict between the smash community. Everybody wants there favorite of the games to have their sequel. I think Smash4 will probably take more of a brawlish feeling to it regardess though.
Anybody think it's possible he might actually make a sequel to Melee or Brawl(Melee 2, Brawl 2) kinda like how Call of Duty had 2 separate versions(Modern Warfare and Black Ops). Could happen but I doubt it.
Man, I wish! Would be a really great way of pleasing both sides, doubtful as I am of it happening too. And Pokemon Black 2 & White 2 might be a better example here than Call of Duty.
How about a Smash that takes the best of both worlds? If that's even possible... Expand and improve on the stuff both games did right (or at least done well or were good ideas on paper) as well as add it's own flavor I suppose. But that's just me. I never really had that much problems with either games to be honest. sure there were a few niggles I didn't like in both games such as tripping or many clones. I still see myself playing both Brawl and Melee sometimes. :/
How about a Smash that takes the best of both worlds? If that's even possible... Expand and improve on the stuff both games did right (or at least done well or were good ideas on paper) as well as add it's own flavor I suppose. But that's just me. I never really had that much problems with either games to be honest. sure there were a few niggles I didn't like in both games such as tripping or many clones. I still see myself playing both Brawl and Melee sometimes. :/
Well, I would like that. I want them go out all since it will be 15th year anniversary for Smash series by time they are going to release game in 2014.
I like clones since they provided different style for me, since I always love Dr. Mario over Mario and Falco over Fox in Melee. Clones is not always that bad. I meant Look at Street Fighter 4, we have Ryu, Ken, Akuma, Gouken, Sakura and Dan. Many people weren't complaining about it because they could provided variable even they have simliar movesets. I'm sure that it would applied to Wolf, Falco and Fox.
Only one thing I don't want to see again is tripping mechanic. Just keep it out of future generations please.
Well, I would like that. I want them go out all since it will be 15th year anniversary for Smash series by time they are going to release game in 2014.
I like clones since they provided different style for me, since I always love Dr. Mario over Mario and Falco over Fox in Melee. Clones is not always that bad. I meant Look at Street Fighter 4, we have Ryu, Ken, Akuma, Gouken, Sakura and Dan. Many people weren't complaining about it because they could provided variable even they have simliar movesets. I'm sure that it would applied to Wolf, Falco and Fox.
Only one thing I don't want to see again is tripping mechanic. Just keep it out of future generations please.
I wouldn't mind Smash 4 being released around the end of 2004 to mark it's 15th anniversary but I would probably rather they take their time more with this one.
Well to be honest. I've put the clones and tripping thing up based on the general fans that didn't like these things for both games respectively. Dunno why I said I since they didn't bother me that much. But I would still like the number of clones to stay at a low percentage (or make them Luigified). Plus I find it more fun having more unique characters to play as. And limit the tripping for things such as banana peels and slippery places where it actually makes sense. (or remove it entirely or make it an option at the very least)
I don't dislike clones that much. After all, Toon Link is my main as well as Mewtwo.
Oh really? That's amazing. I guess Q4 2014 is pretty likely for smash. The only thing I'm worried about is that it may be a little rushed for the sake of meeting that deadline. Is roughly around 2 and a half to 3 years of development time enough for a Smash Wii U and 3DS game? :/
Tripping could remain in the game if it were used as a strategic part of the game. Like particular moves could be used to trip the opponent and then chain a combo.
For example, Aeron (Pandora's Tower) uses a chain as a weapon. If he were in smash, he could yank at the characters feet, trip them, and then proceed to smack them around.
Tripping could remain in the game if it were used as a strategic part of the game. Like particular moves could be used to trip the opponent and then chain a combo.
We have moves that do that. Like Diddy's Banana. Nobody's against this in general(that I've seen). I like this idea. It's the random tripping that isn't from items/character moves that is the problem.
For example, Aeron (Pandora's Tower) uses a chain as a weapon. If he were in smash, he could yank at the characters feet, trip them, and then proceed to smack them around.
Tripping could remain in the game if it were used as a strategic part of the game. Like particular moves could be used to trip the opponent and then chain a combo.
For example, Aeron (Pandora's Tower) uses a chain as a weapon. If he were in smash, he could yank at the characters feet, trip them, and then proceed to smack them around.
I'm fine with this. It's the random tripping that immediately eliminates all skill in the game. Someone could lose a major tournament finals match because they tripped. As soon as this happens, the game becomes luck based. It's bad news. But if an item or move auses it, I'm fine with that.
The chain idea is awesome. a down tilt sort of thing?
I'm fine with this. It's the random tripping that immediately eliminates all skill in the game. Someone could lose a major tournament finals match because they tripped. As soon as this happens, the game becomes luck based. It's bad news. But if an item or move auses it, I'm fine with that.
The chain idea is awesome. a down tilt sort of thing?
Or even a down special. Whatever would make it a better move to begin a combo. More moves like that would add a bit more strategic depth to the game.
Another example could be Mario's F.L.U.D.D. Say Mario sprays the ground in front of him, and someone charges him. They hit the water and slip, making them a sitting duck for a smash attack. This same exact mechanic could work with Game & Watch's oil spill. It would be the same as always, but it would just also cause them to trip.
Come to think of it, because i would doubt Aeron's inclusion (as I have never played Pandora's Tower and feel Shulk would murder him in popularity), Sheik might be able to do the same if they modified the chain special.
I see ideas like this as an opportunity to add in actual strategy based on different movesets. But this is mostly just off the top of my head.
They could even leave a gaseous cloud after Wario rips one, and it would do minor cumulative damage the longer you stand in it
I wouldn't mind Smash 4 being released around the end of 2004 to mark it's 15th anniversary but I would probably rather they take their time more with this one.
Well to be honest. I've put the clones and tripping thing up based on the general fans that didn't like these things for both games respectively. Dunno why I said I since they didn't bother me that much. But I would still like the number of clones to stay at a low percentage (or make them Luigified). Plus I find it more fun having more unique characters to play as. And limit the tripping for things such as banana peels and slippery places where it actually makes sense. (or remove it entirely or make it an option at the very least)
I don't dislike clones that much. After all, Toon Link is my main as well as Mewtwo.
I think it took Sakurai a year to complete Melee from what I remembered, and it ended up pretty good. So I think 2014 is just right for SSB4. Sakurai and Namco Bandai can complete the game in two years, so it should be done in 2014. From what I remembered, Namco-Bandai actually make quality fighting games under two years or so. For example, I think they made Tekken Tag Tournament 2 in a year.
I just hope that they would announce SSB4 at E3 2013 then they would open Dojo during Sept. It would be so perfect for our hype and needs.
Tekken Tag 2 probably took longer than a year to make. Even then, they were basically taking the Tekken 6 engine, add tag mechanics, and made balancing changes save for some characters who were revamped (Jun, Dr. B) or were changed greatly (Jaycee). It also helps that they pretty much retain motion capture from previous games (I think) to speed up the process.
Tripping could remain in the game if it were used as a strategic part of the game. Like particular moves could be used to trip the opponent and then chain a combo.
For example, Aeron (Pandora's Tower) uses a chain as a weapon. If he were in smash, he could yank at the characters feet, trip them, and then proceed to smack them around.
I'd love this, but this reminds me how things like tripping, bounds, wall bounces, etc. need to be limited to x amount of this and that per combo to prevent infinites or from anyone being too powerful.
I think move induced tripping, based on how tripping is now, would function like the low parries in Tekken in that they take away your bound for your combo. Still, that reminds me. Should there be hard knockdowns like Street Fighter's sweeps?
I dont know if im for a ton of moves that trip but i am for some characters getting hitstun from certain moves to combo into moves that could be considered useless, so basically very small combos.
Tekken Tag 2 probably took longer than a year to make. Even then, they were basically taking the Tekken 6 engine, add tag mechanics, and made balancing changes save for some characters who were revamped (Jun, Dr. B) or were changed greatly (Jaycee). It also helps that they pretty much retain motion capture from previous games (I think) to speed up the process.
Well, They said that they are using Brawl's engine to start to work on SSB4, and they can use their models and model frames. It is basically same thing as you said Tekken 6 > Tekken TT2.
I'm talking about Tekken Tag 2 Tournament for Arcade, so it took them an other year to release the games on console.
