Ronike's Test Subject Mafia: Game's Over: Town Wins! Nick pulls a Hando

[mentosman8]

Hmmmm... Now this is interesting. On one hand, I actually kind of believe Frozen's claim. On the other, I'm still considering the potential that we only have an SK left, which means none of those inno's would mean anything. Good to know regardless, but if we've only got an indie left it's likely that wouldn't appear as guilty to Frozen, and from the sound of that recruiter role, well, I think it's safe to say we didn't start with multiple mafia. Regardless, for right now

Unvote

 

[Nicholas1024]

Well mentos, I agree with you that Ronike seems to be trying to tell us that there are no mafia left, but a SK instead. In fact, looking back through the D1 lynch flavor, he hinted then at an independent.

Anyway, unless someone counterclaims him, I'll buy Frozen's cop claim.
As far as investigations go, I have no idea whether investigating the SK would come up as town, indie, or what. However, I do have a quick question for frozen. How did you investigate 3 people despite there only being 2 night phases so far?

Well, at this point, my main suspect would be Rockin, with Tom being in second.

Rockin I suspect because of the Marshy kill last night, and the lack of significant content. Marshy had built a case against Rockin due to his lack of content early D2, until Gheb took the spotlight. Given that there is likely a SK instead of another mafia, the fact that he was on the swords wagon doesn't matter.

As far as Tom goes, it's the same reasons everyone else is suspicious of him. He hasn't posted anything of content (aside from the one giant post D2), and has promised posts he hasn't delivered. I know that frozen got an innocent on him, but it's possible that the SK comes up innocent under investigation.

Rest of scumlist:

average suspicion:
mentos
junglefever
Riddle

below average suspicion:
KevinM

No suspicion:
frozenflame (assuming he doesn't get counterclaimed)

 

[Tom]

before i post my ****

frozenflame, which night did you investigate me?

 

[KevinM]

If this is the case I'd rather lynch Mentos, and then Nick. But who knows.

 

[Ronike]

Vote Count:
Tom(2): Kevin, Riddle
Rockin(1): Jungle
Not Voting: Tom, Frozen, Nick, mentos, rockin

Prods are soon LIES!

 

[mentosman8]

Kevin, what are your reasons for wanting to vote me off? I'd like to hear them before I respond to that statement.

 

[Tom]

frozey froze get back to me

 

[Riddle]

Frozenflame's claim is interesting. I would also like to hear the answers to the two questions posed.

How did you investigate thrice?

Why and when did you investigate everyone?

 

[Tom]

hey thanks riddle

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

I investigated Tom Night 0 (Pre-game), Marshy Night 1, and KevMo Night 2.

As for why, I investigate people who I want to be able to trust in the endgame for the purposes of building powerful voting coalitions.

 

[mentosman8]

Ya know what? I thought about things a bit, and I'm debating if I believe Frozen's claim. It was kind of out of the blue, no solid pressure on him, not a pressure situation for town, and he blatantly soft-claimed. Now, on to my main points.

If there were 2 mafia D1, and we mislynched, there would be 3 D2 with 10 total alive. Now, think about it. 7 vs 3. that is mylo.(mislynch 6v3, kill 5v3, recruit 4v4). I don't see Ronike making the game THAT tight. How is this relevant? Because if there was a N0(as Frozen claims), either town got an unfair jumpstart, or we were set for D2 mylo. Unless any other PR's claim and say there was a n0, I'm confident Frozen made a mistake claiming and tried to cover it up. Now, even if there was a n0, with the 1 kill both nights, that would mean we have at MOST 1 mafia, otherwise the game can almost entirely be decided D1. In which case lynching Frozen would give us 3 clears, likely 2 alive with 6 left.

Now, we may also have an SK and no maf. Only way that would be possible, and it has been strongly hinted that we DO have an SK, is if there was no N0 for the mafia to recruit. And, if that was the situation, a cop would be worthless anyway as indie generally appears town.

So, what does that mean I'm getting at? Frozen's claim is shaky claiming N0, and if we have a mafia we have 3 clears, if not Frozen is most likely useless. Better to test the suspicious player than to assume he's real when the benefit is highly likely 0.

Vote: FrozenFlame A frozen flame is just water under the bridge, and it's time you join the rest of it.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

mentos is so ****ing scum its not even funny.

I was debating who the better play was until this point, you vs. Nick. Now I'm thoroughly convinced you're our last maf.

Out of the blue? The game was dying and I specifically asked people if I should make my move before doing anything. People were of the opinion that I do it to get the ball rolling and voila, look what it has done. You're trying to misconstrue my actions as if I jumped that gun which is a horrendously scummy strawman. Furthermore, what the hell is a "soft-claim"?

For all your mathing out of the game, you fail to realize that there are numerous possible explanations for resolving the balance issues you're bringing up. Perhaps Ronike only let the town act on Night 0 specifically BECAUSE the game would be so tight? Maybe the mafia recruiter had to wait a day or two before being able to use his role. Maybe he couldn't use it unless his partner died. Who knows? Point is, trying to discredit my game by assuming things about the setup that you in reality know absolutely nothing about for certain is as scummy as it gets.

If I had to guess the game probably has 2 Maf (one of which is now dead) and an SK. I'd be willing to wager that both the recruiter and the SK had limitations though, to pevent the game from being decidedly weighted against the town.

How does trusting me have 0 benefit? Your logic is so full of holes its almost embarrassing. Sans CC, I've built just about the strongest endgame team that this game has to offer. Provided we get the last remaining maf who I'm assuming wont have investigation immunity, this game will have to end in a 2 town v 1 indy endgame AT WORST. At that point, my investigations will likely be useless, but at least we'll be able to easily reduce the number of anti towns to one player. With only one anti-town remaining, the number of days town has left will be predictable and town will have maximized the number of days it could possibly play. There's so much to gain from my claim, but of course, as scum, you wouldn't be thinking about how to create an optimal town endgame now would you?

Vote: Mentosman

The play is obvious people.

 

[mentosman8]

mentos is so ****ing scum its not even funny.

I was debating who the better play was until this point, you vs. Nick. Now I'm thoroughly convinced you're our last maf.

Out of the blue? The game was dying and I specifically asked people if I should make my move before doing anything. People were of the opinion that I do it to get the ball rolling and voila, look what it has done. You're trying to misconstrue my actions as if I jumped that gun which is a horrendously scummy strawman. Furthermore, what the hell is a "soft-claim"?

To respond, I didn't say that you claimed out of the blue. I referred to your soft claim being out of the blue. The soft claim is saying something that makes it blatantly obvious that you are a power role/a given role without actually saying it. From the time I saw your post I knew you were a cop, and that was definitely very unexpected. Especially after the doc is already dead, in a low-town-pressure situation, sparking conversation on someone by mentioning them instead of claiming is odd.

For all your mathing out of the game, you fail to realize that there are numerous possible explanations for resolving the balance issues you're bringing up. Perhaps Ronike only let the town act on Night 0 specifically BECAUSE the game would be so tight? Maybe the mafia recruiter had to wait a day or two before being able to use his role. Maybe he couldn't use it unless his partner died. Who knows? Point is, trying to discredit my game by assuming things about the setup that you in reality know absolutely nothing about for certain is as scummy as it gets.

I will definitely say that's possible, if I didn't make mention of it in my post it was my mistake. Also, I even said in my post if you had read carefully, that you having a n0 investigation meant either town getting an unfair jumpstart or my 1 mafia theory. I already addressed this point albeit briefly, so stop acting like I didn't consider it. Also, the words EVERY NIGHT weigh strongly in the amount of restrictions on the recruiter.

If I had to guess the game probably has 2 Maf (one of which is now dead) and an SK. I'd be willing to wager that both the recruiter and the SK had limitations though, to pevent the game from being decidedly weighted against the town.

What kind of limitations on the recruiter? It was blatantly told to us the recruiter could recruit every night, so apparently no restrictions there. And, what kind of limitation on the SK would have this situation make sense that doesn't turn them into a survivor?


How does trusting me have 0 benefit? Your logic is so full of holes its almost embarrassing. Sans CC, I've built just about the strongest endgame team that this game has to offer. Provided we get the last remaining maf who I'm assuming wont have investigation immunity, this game will have to end in a 2 town v 1 indy endgame AT WORST. At that point, my investigations will likely be useless, but at least we'll be able to easily reduce the number of anti towns to one player. With only one anti-town remaining, the number of days town has left will be predictable and town will have maximized the number of days it could possibly play. There's so much to gain from my claim, but of course, as scum, you wouldn't be thinking about how to create an optimal town endgame now would you?

Pot calling the kettle black Frozen. You complain about me misconstruing your actions, which I have already pointed out was not the case, then turn around and respond to an argument that is not related to what I said at all. I said in all likelihood, since it has been made clear we have an indy who is a threat(SK), and that wouldn't make sense balance wise with another mafia, if my very educated guess on the numbers is correct. If that is the case, which I believe it is, your investigations are useless. That is why I said in all likelihood the investigations will be 0 benefit, and since I have seen you as somewhat suspicious it would be better off testing your claim, while in a non-pressure situation, instead of just flat out believing you in spite of past suspicion, when from what I can gather your investigations can very possibly catch us what we need to be after.
Vote: Mentosman

The play is obvious people.

And now to put this since all my text is in quotes and not counted for 10char limit

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

I don't see how my soft claim was odd. The way you worded your last statement, it seems to me like you prefer a claim to voicing suspicions on someone to spark discussion, but I'm assuming you didn't mean to say that and meant the opposite. In any event, I explained why I wanted to make the move I did and I believe I did it for very good reason. Furthermore, it netted fantastic results in giving our stronger players people to trust until endgame and it got you to make a risky counter gambit that's crumbling as we speak.

Why should I be expected to assume you considered other potential setups when your accusation was founded so solidly on the setup you presented. Say what you mean, don't expect others to know what you mean by what you say. I'm glad you at least admit that there is no reason to hold your speculation above any other reasonable setup. As for the "every night" thing, perhaps the limitation on the recruiter was that he couldn't recuit night 0. That makes sense considering any reasonable recruiter would invoke his ability as soon as possible so as to avoid getting killed before being able to recruit. That explains why he hadn't recuited anyone by Day 1.

As for a limitation on the SK, perhaps he can only kill every other night? Or perhaps he has to fufill some condition during the day to be able to perform a kill?

And no, I haven't misconstrued your argument at all. You accused my investigations of having no benfit, and I've shown you explicit impacts of what my claim has done for the town. Provided people don't listen to you we're geared to enter a very pro -town town vs. indy endgame.

And lastly, for anyone who still doubts my claim, read this post. I breadcrumbed it.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8559896&postcount=547

First letter of each line spells the hint.

 

[KevinM]

Yeah I'm ok with this.

Unvote: Tom
Vote: Mentos

If this happens to be the truth the our endgame team is SO strong.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Oh, before we lynch mentos, Kev and Tom, who do you guys think I should investigate tonight?

 

[Nicholas1024]

Well, after this recent turn of events, I'm going to have to Vote Mentos, simply because a cop without counter-claims is cleared. Mentos, I don't know what you were thinking.

 

[mentosman8]

Now, first of all, I told you: I said your investigations have no benefit if we have a SK as our only anti-town left. In that case, yes, yes they are.

Now, tell me this. Let's say there is a mafia left, as well as the blatantly pointed out indie threat. There has been two nights so an "every other night" SK limitation is pretty much out. Fulfilling something in the day wouldn't be too hard, and to not kill as an SK has absolutely no benefit. I just don't see an SK and maf being there and not having a night of 2 kills yet.

Pretty much, you're OMGUSing me right now Frozen. I voiced suspicion against you and I became your top lynch choice. Do you have any reasons that existed before this conversation? Because I know I had suspicions of you before hand. Also, you keep saying that it will make a strong town vs indy endgame with your investigations, but what if I'm right? What if there's no mafia and you just keep lynching people without results on them trying to catch that "last mafia" and end up with 3 or 4 left all with inno investigations? Now if this doesn't explain where I was coming from with the "0 benefit investigations," that's exactly why I say it. If we rely on your investigations and only have an indy left, we're ignoring people who have been scummy(like Tom), and focusing instead on those without investigations, which allows an SK to slide through un-noticed.

I can tell you right now this is the wrong lynch. I won't claim just yet, but I'll be ready to claim probably if I get another vote or two. Fact of the matter is, even if mafia couldn't recruit on N0, if there were 2 to start this game would be over by now if we hadn't lynched Swords. I really don't see Ronike going through the effort of putting in all the effort for the flavor on a game that could, potentially, be over by the start of D3. I'm not saying everyone has to join a Frozen wagon, but we should focus on who has been scummy, not who hasn't been investigated yet when we pretty much know we have an SK.

 

[mentosman8]

Well, after this recent turn of events, I'm going to have to Vote Mentos, simply because a cop without counter-claims is cleared. Mentos, I don't know what you were thinking.

Nick, no offense, but are you an idiot? This is a closed setup. No role is clear just because there are no counterclaims. Ronike could easily have built a game with no cop to encourage scum hunting. To go for a lynch because they question a claimed role in a CLOSED. SETUP. is ridiculous. It's not like we know the roles, all we know are the dead ones, so how are you positive someone who claims a role is clear? Not every game needs a cop.

Now, since I'm at L-2 I'll go ahead and claim. I am Mentosman the vanilla townie. I'm experienced, but since I don't take everything very seriously, every time I vote I have to make a joke regarding it. You can see this throughout every vote I've made, and it's also why I haven't used my vote much. I only have so many jokes I can come up with, and I don't want to use the same one every timeXD

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Urg, it seems like mentos is flip flopping alot on his thoughts and trying to be agreeable with eveyrone else but still stick with his claim on mentos

I'm okay with your lynch today buddy

vote: mentos

 

[mentosman8]

How am I flip flopping? I've made the exact same points in every post I've made about this situation. I mean, I'm a nilla and it's not really crunch time, so probly my biggest thought to leave with you guys is that the numbers strongly incline that there is only an sk left. So even if FF dies and really does flip cop, look for scumminess, not just at those who aren't investigated.

 

[Riddle]

I don't know mentos's role claim seems pretty believable to me. While I believe frozen's claim I think is role is actually most likely useless now. Indie's usually come up as town and with a mafia recruiter who (based on what Ronike said) can recruit every night the chance of another maf seems low. I think its very likely that it is just 1 indie left. Thus, Tom's lynch pool and Frozen's investigations are very likely useless. If I'm missing something feel free to tell me.

 

[mentosman8]

Thank you Riddle. The entire movement to lynch me was based solely off of me saying pretty much that same thing(in a lot more words), and adding that I would be ok with lynching someone who I found suspicious who claimed cop because looking at the numbers it seemed unlikely that investigations would be helpful anyway. This is one of the few times I've been a lynch candidate and not been able to understand the choice to lynch me>_> And, when the flavor that explained the recruiter role pretty much said "hey idiots, look for the independent," it's not like my argument was invalid or based on weak reasoning.

Now, I'd like to ask town this: What about the argument I made makes you think I'm a good lynch candidate? Is it just because I suggested lynching a cop claim? Is it because you think we definitely have to look for mafia when it's both extremely unbalanced AND pretty much told to us is not the case? I'd like to hear one actual good reason(Frozen's counter-argument sucked big time, Jungle said I was flip flopping which has NOT been the case, Nicholas voted me because apparently every game ever needs to have a cop and if they aren't CC'd they're insta-clear, and Kevin pretty much gave nothing but "I'm down, not sure if Frozen is telling the truth or not, but works for me"

 

[Nicholas1024]

Mentos, cop is one of the (if not the) most common roles out there. For a mafia/SK to fabricate a cop claim would be very risky and likely lead to them being lynched tomorrow at the latest. Yes, it's possible that the SK would come up as townie and I agree that frozen was acting suspicious prior to his claim. However, I just don't see any mafia/SK doing a cop claim out of the blue, especially when it isn't lylo and a correct lynch would end the game.

 

[mentosman8]

True, cop is a common role. But, you have done NOTHING to argue that the argument I made is scummy none the less lynch worthy. You agree he has been scummy during the game. The SK coming up as town isn't just possible, it's exceedingly rare to have indies appear as anything BUT town. Now, a direct question to you:

Do you agree it is likely, based not only on Ronike's comment while describing the recruiter, but based on the fact that town would have almost no chance given the every night recruitment if there were multiple mafia at the start of D1? I do have a follow up question depending on how you answer.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Do I agree that what is likely? Multiple mafia? No, I'm fairly certain that the remaining threat is an SK.

 

[mentosman8]

Yeah, that question was hard to phrase right, you got it though. Now for my follow-up:

You agree the remaining threat is almost certainly an SK. You say you agree it's very possible that SK would appear as inno to Frozen if he's a real cop. This means investigations are pretty much worthless if both counts are correct. You agree he was scummy before he claimed. So, if you agree with pretty much every point I made, why are you jumping on my lynch solely for saying "Hey I think...etc," which you agree with, the only difference adding "and if this is the case why not test the scummy player who is very possibly of no value even if he is a real cop"?

The key point of that(I know it was oddly phrased), is that you agree with my thoughts pretty well, yet think that

 

[mentosman8]

Bleh, last line was going to be a better phrased version of the question, then I realized I couldn't think of anything that wasn't repeating the same thing, then I forgot to delete it>_>

 

[Nicholas1024]

Yes, I am 90% certain the remaining threat is an SK. As far as the investigations go, I have no idea whether an SK would appear as an innocent or not. The only game I've been in that would apply is spidey-mafia (in which case indies would appear innocent, but there would be plenty of flavor text to warn that something was up.) However, although he was scummy before he claimed, I buy his claim completely, and you were suggesting we lynch a claimed cop without counter-claims. Yes, perhaps his role is now useless. However, it still clears him, and his lynch should not be considered.

 

[mentosman8]

It does not clear him. Essentially, you are voting me because of a difference on game theory. When I see a PR claim in a closed setup, I am generally cautious, but I have no problem lynching them if they're scummy and I don't see it as heavily damaging. This is because I never assume a given role is in the game. You assume that because a cop is a common role, it must be in the game, and thus consider FF cleared. The entire reason you're voting me has nothing to do with me not making a good argument for my case, nothing to do with scummy behavior, instead you are voting me because you play the game with a different mindset than I do, which is a horrible reason to be voting someone.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Mentos, I agree that simply voting for someone based on a difference in personal gameplay style is bad. However, there are certain fundamentals of mafia that when breached, are often anti-town and are often attempted to be played off as simple difference in gameplay. Questioning the legitimacy of a cop claim in a game that provides no reason to believe that there ISN'T a cop is one of those fundamental breaches. Now, if we knew things about the setup that would suggest that their might not be a cop, then I'd be more sympathetic to your argument, however, we've already seen a traditional Doc role in this game. That SUGGESTS that there would be a cop. Another example of a circumstance in which you wouldn't necessarily believe a cop claim would be in a game with a janitor or disguiser. However, this gane doesn't seem to have those roles. Again I stress, believing in a less likely situation than the norm without circustances to suggest the exception might be true is POOR TOWN PLAY.

As for your in game track record, just because you may have been realtively non-scummy earlier doesn't make anything you do now less scummy. Scum players can do a great job at playing townish for large portions of games. If they used the argument of "well I wasn't scummy before this" all the time and people bought it, town would see itself losing a lot of games. The combination of your questioning of my claim's usefulness as well as the fact that you even believe me to be a good play today is plenty scummy enough to warrant a vote on you. You went from being on the fence about my claim to being highly skeptical of it. You've been trying to undermine my usefulness and legitimacy in every post you've made. You've entered a mode of defense that is highly indicative of scum who choose a path of attack, met resistance, and is now struggling to regain momentum. I'm sorry, but all that along with the fact that you weren't on the Swords wagon really adds up in my mind.

 

[mentosman8]

The only momentum I'm "struggling to regain" Frozen, is getting votes off of me. Also, if you pay attention to my argument, my main point is that I believe there is only an SK left. I also believe you are scummy. Those two combined lead me to think of the situation as high potential low risk type situation. Based on my knowledge of games, and my interpretation of what we've been given to work with and the numbers involved in the game, I feel it is safe to lynch you to make sure you aren't our SK. Does that mean I entirely don't buy your claim and are arguing that you're obviously fake? No, the fact that I unvoted after your claim while I thought things through should prove that. However, I also see you as scummy enough to warrant a lynch, and the claim just doesn't logically seem useful enough to back down on those suspicions.

Also, I would like to point out that I was working toward the Swords lynch a **** good portion of D1. In fact, the only reason I wasn't on the final vote count is because, much as I did with you, I unvoted to consider the options and evaluate the claim, and was unable to make it back before the deadline. In fact, if you take a look at this vote count:

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8439789&postcount=325

I was the second person to vote Swords, and worked toward the lynch the whole time. So that argument is moot, especially since it's highly unlikely we have a mafia left.

Final bit of response for this post, you yourself said without circumstances to suggest the exception might be true referring to taking the idea that less likely is possible. Well, I consider the fact that I find you scummy to be circumstances to consider the option. Hell, if there WAS a n0 as you claim, then for all I know you could be recruited and my theory is wrong. There is circumstances to disbelieve your claim, just as there are to, more importantly, not see a massive upside to not lynching scummy players.

Now, a question for you Frozen. Are you going to be so solid on there being another mafia in the game? All the evidence points otherwise(heh, what was that about believing the less likely) and if you really are a town cop, you're going to hurt us by focusing a very, very possibly non-existent mafia. If you were to investigate say Nick, and get an inno, and Riddle is killed(assuming in this that I end up lynched today), if you don't get away from that theory, that will leave you with two non-inno's, Rockin and Jungle. Would you plan on lynching one tomorrow and one the next day? Because after tonight there are 6 of us. Lynch one of the two un"cleared" in that situation, we're at 4 the next day. Lynch the other one and find out there's no mafia and guess what, we just lost.

Honestly, the fact that you are pushing so hard that there is a mafia left is part of what has pushed my suspicion on you higher. If you were the SK, whether with a safeclaim or a lucky guess, you would have yourself a win if you pushed there must be one mafia left, lynched me today, killed an unclear/lynched one of the 2 non-investigated tomorrow, then claimed to have a mafia result the last day. It is quite clear that we only have an SK, in fact it is a much, much, much higher chance, and yet you still push that mafia should be looked for and make arguments like your one about Swords which would have absolutely NO impact looking for an indie. I wish I had a stronger reason to believe you are fake, because right now it's just the background scumminess that is pushing me to disbelieve your claim. I may not have a chance to post again tonight, but I will keep thinking about this. I encourage town to give me time to talk before they hammer me so there's something to look at tomorrow.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Mentos, you're being ridiculous. The fact that you think my claim is going to tunnelvision the town into letting the indy win is absolutely crazy.

What my claim DOES do is provide the town with two clears of potential mafiats. Even if you're right and there are no mafiats left, as the game progresses toward lylo, you simply disregard the investigations and play out lylo as a lylo situation. We aren't going to just assume any non-investigated people are the only targets in a lylo situation. That would just be plain dumb.

There's nothing to lose and everything to gain by believing me. The potential absence of benefit when coupled with potential benefit is much better than acting in a manner that is likely to remove a more or less guaranteed benefit. Basically, lynching me by objective standards is a near guaranteed loss for the town. Keeping me around and placing some confidence in my investigations will at the very least protect us from any potential mafia.

 

[Riddle]

Frozenflame, Swords could recruit every single day. In a small game like this don't you think that maybe in a small game like this there would be only one mafia? The flavor text also points to a indie. Indies in my experience almost always turn up innocent. You seem to think you are building a strong endgame team of Kevin, Marshy, you, and Tom, but your innocent reports most likely seem nothing. Of course you should keep investigating because if you gt a guilty it could give you some info, but you should realize that all an inno report is likely telling you is that this person is not the miller (if there is one).

This belief that you are building an endgame team could be towns downfall if play continues like this. I honestly think that Tom or Kevin might be very weill indie and you are giving them a free pass to Lylo which it seems they are more than capable of getting through.

I think Tom and Kevin are scummy (suggesting indie rather than scum obv) for several reasons. His quickness to accept the endgame team you guys built up without questioning. Kevin's opposition of indie hunting (which is probably a null-tell but is something to note). Tom's inactiveness and promised posts. Kevin's support of only lynching people on the recruiter wagon (Tom too but he acually wasn't on). I honestly think that Kevin is our play right now.

Unvote, Vote: Kevin

 

[KevinM]

The reason I'm so adamant about the recruiter wagon is because just as FF said, if there was a night 0 there is another member of the mafia, and if there is, they would NOT have lynched their recruiter D1 with an equally scummy Karthik vote available.

 

[Riddle]

With such a powerful role I don't really think Ronike would allow the mafia to recruit Night 0. I don't know though. You bring up a good point.

 

[KevinM]

Guys, can we lynch Nick, I feel he's the play.

Unvote
Vote Nick

Just after rereading, I feel that it's the right thing to do.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Unvote

Not sure what to do at this point. I was purposely pushing Mentos hard in the debate to see how he responded. His head is in the right place as far as his logic is concerned. Still the fact the there did exist some doubt about my legitimacy and the vote against me makes we still quite suspicious of Mentos. For now though, I'm starting to get more of a town read from him.

What Riddle mentioned was something I've been considering. Kevin's willingness to "ride me to endgame" theoritically speaking is a little offsetting. It's tough to tell who genuine Tom and Kev are about their enthusiasm about my coalition building.

I REALLY want to hear from Tom at this point. I'm curious about what providing my investigation order helped him figure out and general thoughts about Nick, Mentos and KevMo.

 

[Ronike]

Really sorry about somewhat ignoring my own game, as many of you know, **** went down in FFVII, so that's my reason. Apologies, and Ill update today.

 

[Tom]

I asked you what night you investigated me because I wanted to see if you were a night investigator or not. You had 3 night action results and there had only been 2 nights (night 1 and night 2) so if you weren't going to claim there was a n0, I might have caught you in something. However, Riddle immediately chimed in with his little two cent piece as well, asking you further questions like"how did you investigate thrice?," which utterly RUINED my trap/plan. Obviously, Riddle, if you were trying to find out if he had messed up his count, asking him that question only legitimizes his answer. You would have to coax him into ****ing up, not blatantly give him your intentions.

Regardless, I want to believe Frozenflame's claim. Especially because there is no more doctor. I would want to vote for KevinM today, because he is jumping from person to person with his vote, seemingly seriously, but without reason at all. However, Frozen cleared Kevin and myself. Also, he was solidly on SwordsRbroken.

I dont understand post 616 by frozenflame. Why would you lynch me or Kev?

Why do people think there is no more mafia?

Mentos, who do you think is the play? Frozenflame, still?

More as I get these questions answered.