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Roku-Kakuto-Geemu Results

Eddie G

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
Messages
9,123
Location
Cleveland, OH
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neohmarth216
Sov I'd like to try teaming with you semi-consistently whenever we can (after I've fulfilled my promise to team with Clowsui). I remember your ZSS being really good when we played, and I still have a pretty solid Ness from when I mained him back in the day; perhaps we could master that combination over time? I've always wanted to give it a shot after seeing Nick/Shaky do mad work.

I have MK to use as well, if necessary.
 

Tope

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 15, 2005
Messages
3,999
Location
Norfolk, VA
I used Falco too. Probably about 50/50 with Snake. It all depended on who I was playing. Against Renegade I went completely Falco, against Sorasin I went completely Snake. Against Mr Eric I mixed it up.

It was a fun tournament.

Thank you for hosting, Kiester!

Tope: Jigglypuff wins Melee tournaments

*troll face*
2 players can use jiggs and win.

How many mk players are there again? ;)
 

Sovereign

Game Reaper
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Nov 10, 2008
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Indianapolis, IN
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Sovereign90
Sov I'd like to try teaming with you semi-consistently whenever we can (after I've fulfilled my promise to team with Clowsui). I remember your ZSS being really good when we played, and I still have a pretty solid Ness from when I mained him back in the day; perhaps we could master that combination over time? I've always wanted to give it a shot after seeing Nick/Shaky do mad work.

I have MK to use as well, if necessary.
I don't use ZSS anymore, honestly, but if you want me to practice and keep her polished for teams, I'll do that. I'm all Marth now, with a mix of Sonic. And if push come to shove, I can use MK, as well, but I'm sure there are ways to beat a team with an MK on it, but duo MKs is just bull**** on fire.

Anywho, I'll be lookin' forward to it.
 

AlphaZealot

Former Smashboards Owner
Administrator
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Sovereign: sorry. Coaching wasn't banned here. So basically I told wakka to glide toss backwards. Poor marf :(
 

Sovereign

Game Reaper
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Nov 10, 2008
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2,292
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Indianapolis, IN
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Sovereign90
Sovereign: sorry. Coaching wasn't banned here. So basically I told wakka to glide toss backwards. Poor marf :(
Even then. I would rather have played Wakka to the best of his knowledge, instead of having to play Wakka with the best of AZ's knowledge.

It's in the past now, so whatever. I hope to play you, real soon.
 

DtJ Hilt

Little Lizard
Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Messages
8,531
Location
Minnow Brook
1: Blue Rogue: Good **** pulling outta here with first. Was cool seeing you again, been awhile. Stay snug.
2: AlphaZealot: How many ice teas did you end up drinking? Haha.
3: Overswarm: Was great hanging out again. We're gonna have to do board games sometime. Also that tournament you were talking about has to happen!
4: Sorasin: Good stuff at this, man. I had a feeling you'd beat me this time around, glad to see you've been progressing as much as you have. Keep it up. I wanna see more of your falco upwards in tourney results.
5: Mister Eric: HooGreat weeekend. Thanks for hauling us around, definitely enjoyed it. We've all gotta set up a weekend to just hang out sometime. Miss you guys.
5: Kel: Enjoyed playing friendlies before the tourney. You're falco's legit in all honesty, your snake as well. And it seemed like you enjoyed yourself, regardless of your main being banned. Since you guys live so close now, we should really try to plan something sometime. There's really no good reason not to. Till next time, man.
7: Hilt: X:
7: Renegade: Was cool having you around, man. Good stuff in doubles and street fighter.
9: KassandraNova: Glad you were there! Liked your peach, it seemed like you really had a good time. We're long over due for a board game night. Get with me on facebook sometime, we've gotta set something up!
9: Crash: Good stuff beating me in singles.
9: Carls493: Boo I didn't get to play this guy.
9: Wakka: Mannnnn I miss hanging out with you. Was glad you made it.
13: Karate Lincoln: WHAT A BAD *** NAME LOLLLL. Is this Baro? You were actually a blast.
13: TheKiest: The god damn best TO in the Midwest. I don't even know where to start, lol. Good **** running this. So many clever ideas. I can see how you keep getting people wanting to come back for the next one. I know I do. I had a blast. Keep up the good work.
13: Suyon: 102 Ledge Grabs lmao. Enjoyed our set.
17: Sammy: Enjoyed our mm. Keep making it to tourneys, man. Hopefully if I make it out to another, you guys will be there.
17: MetaFlair: MY MAN. So glad you made it. Car ride up there was a blast. Gonna make sure Louisville and Morehead do something sometime.
17: Luna Lang: Already said it once but congrats on winning bop it XD You were pretty cool to talk to, too. See you next time we all get together for board games!
17: Lumi: Well we got to play one game this time around at least! XD Olimar's stupid. If I make it to another tournament out that way ever, I'll be sure to help you out with the matchup more. Though I don't know when you'll ever face one again rofl.
17: Juu: Enjoyed our money match. Glad you were able to make it, man, it's been too long.
17: JT: Good stuff in our money match XD Hoping to see you guys the next time I make it out to a tourney.
25: T800: We didn't play this time around D: Was cool seeing you, though.
25: Chaz: Pokemon Trainer! Haha, had fun in our friendlies. You were messin me up with squirtle!
25: Sovreign: Good stuff in doubles. Good seeing you again, surprised me, haha.
25: KBRO: Enjoyed our set, man.
Chi: You owe me five bucks XD Enjoyed our set, though. And glad you were able to make it. I was gonna be bummed if you didn't show.

God what a terrible game.
Hahaha, amen.
 

sorasin

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 9, 2009
Messages
76
Location
Wet Dreamland

4: Sorasin: Good stuff at this, man. I had a feeling you'd be me this time around, glad to see you've been progressing as much as you have. Keep it up. I wanna see more of your falco upwards in tourney results.
Thanks man, means a lot. I won't let you down.
 

MX778

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
436
Location
Columbus, Ohio
I just realized....
Alot of people that I wanted to see showed up when I didn't come. lol

You all better come to the next one. >:/// grrrface
 

Overswarm

is laughing at you
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
21,181
My girlfriend and I also had Yoshi bead art for sale. Too bad, MX.
 

MegamanX14

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 27, 2006
Messages
194
Location
Columbus, OH (OSU)
Coaching makes both parties better at the game. There is no downside to it. It is very good for the community. I don't see why you are complaining about it so much, especially if it is allowed at the tourney.

Anyway, this tournament was pretty fun. Wish more people showed up, but it's alright. Shoutouts to Keist for being a fantastic TO and Overswarm for beating my *** on Rainbow Cruise hahaha.
 

Overswarm

is laughing at you
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
21,181
Coaching makes both parties better at the game. There is no downside to it. It is very good for the community. I don't see why you are complaining about it so much, especially if it is allowed at the tourney.
Brawl is a mental game; coaching can help determine the outcome of a match, and as such is generally frowned upon. It's about on the same level as screaming "Yeah, **** you you ****ing SUCK" at his opponent nonstop the entire game, except it has a larger effect on outcome.
 

Sovereign

Game Reaper
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Sovereign90
Coaching makes both parties better at the game. There is no downside to it. It is very good for the community. I don't see why you are complaining about it so much, especially if it is allowed at the tourney.
What?! It makes both parties better at the game?

*Walks away*
 

MegamanX14

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 27, 2006
Messages
194
Location
Columbus, OH (OSU)
No, screaming at your opponent is very unsportsmanlike, and, thus, frowned upon. Coaching should not affect anything. It's telling a friend how to overcome a problem they have against their opponent. They get better in the process. The opponent has to try to figure out how to beat his answer. They get better in the process. I have no idea what you are whining about.

Sovereign, if you could actually give me a legitimate reason why it doesn't make people better and not make a stupid response post, that'd be great. Thanks.

:phone:
 

Sovereign

Game Reaper
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Sovereign90
No, screaming at your opponent is very unsportsmanlike, and, thus, frowned upon. Coaching should not affect anything. It's telling a friend how to overcome a problem they have against their opponent. They get better in the process. The opponent has to try to figure out how to beat his answer. They get better in the process. I have no idea what you are whining about.

Sovereign, if you could actually give me a legitimate reason why it doesn't make people better and not make a stupid response post, that'd be great. Thanks.

:phone:
So, now this about why it doesn't make people better, instead of why it shouldn't be allowed? If you could give me a legitimate topic to stay on, I might waste more of my time on answering you.

In fact, how about the next tournament you go to, you let me know, and I'll show up, play you with Ganon, against, whoever you want, and give me a coach. I guarantee you'll lose.
 

Eddie G

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
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Cleveland, OH
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neohmarth216
No, screaming at your opponent is very unsportsmanlike, and, thus, frowned upon. Coaching should not affect anything. It's telling a friend how to overcome a problem they have against their opponent. They get better in the process. The opponent has to try to figure out how to beat his answer. They get better in the process. I have no idea what you are whining about.

Sovereign, if you could actually give me a legitimate reason why it doesn't make people better and not make a stupid response post, that'd be great. Thanks.

:phone:
You'll never improve that way, at least for anything long term. In fact, it's basically accepting someone to hold your hand throughout your entire developmental process as a player, which will most likely leave you vulnerable and unable to think for yourself as well when you're playing on your own.

I get where you're coming from, but I absolutely cannot condone it.

:phone:
 

Overswarm

is laughing at you
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
21,181
Awww. Are you serious? xD
Are you guys gonna' be at the next one?
Yup, with even more Bead art stuff. The yoshi's we have from Yoshi's Island are pretty big, so we're sellin' them for $7 each. They look kinda like this:



Feel free to tell me if you want a specific color. :B

No, screaming at your opponent is very unsportsmanlike, and, thus, frowned upon. Coaching should not affect anything. It's telling a friend how to overcome a problem they have against their opponent. They get better in the process. The opponent has to try to figure out how to beat his answer. They get better in the process. I have no idea what you are whining about.

Sovereign, if you could actually give me a legitimate reason why it doesn't make people better and not make a stupid response post, that'd be great. Thanks.

:phone:
Standing behind a player and telling them what to do is also very unsportsmanlike. Try going into a chess tournament and telling people what to do, and they'll flip. Brawl is also a mental game; it takes a lot of time, study, and effort to get good. When someone uses the time THEY spent studying to launch someone else forward in the middle of a match, it is no longer about the two players playing against each other. Neither player actually "gets better". It's a momentary boost, otherwise people would just read to get better if it was so permanent. The advice given is always something incredibly specific to that player, something that people need to figure out on their own.

Fact of the matter is, coaching someone in the middle of an important match just shows your disrespect for them as a player, and disrespect for their opponent as a competitor. A tournament match is when you pit one brain against another to try to figure it out. Had I played you in Melee back when I actually played, I would have destroyed you easily; now I had trouble remembering things like l-canceling and grab combos. I had to literally re-learn everything all at once. How ridiculous would it have been if Vidjo had come along and said "Hey buddy! Dude, do X Y and Z" and reminded me? Would it have made me "better"? Of course not! It would have been Vidjo's brain, not mine, playing the match. People can improve on their own accord.
 

Sovereign

Game Reaper
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Sovereign90
I want that Black Yoshi. Save it for me. It's too legit.

Both of you guys pretty much hit he nail on the head.
 

Sovereign

Game Reaper
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Nov 10, 2008
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Indianapolis, IN
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Sovereign90
My girlfriend and I make them, so we can make multiple copies. :B
Make one with "Sov" somewhere on it, please, and I'll buy if/when I next see you guys. SiiS6 is the next tournament I'm going to, but not participating in, due to having drill that weekend.
 

Overswarm

is laughing at you
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
21,181
Make one with "Sov" somewhere on it, please, and I'll buy if/when I next see you guys. SiiS6 is the next tournament I'm going to, but not participating in, due to having drill that weekend.
Haha, I'll let her take that challenge. :)
 

MegamanX14

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 27, 2006
Messages
194
Location
Columbus, OH (OSU)
I am still not understand how both players don't get better. The one being coached figures out a line of attack/defense that is good against their opponent. He will use this information in the future to not lose to a similar strategy. Likewise, his opponent must figure out how to react to the counter-attack. He also figures out different lines of attack/defense, and this will help him in the long term as well. What's the point of any competitive game? To be the best? How do you become the best? You familiarize yourself with as many different situations as possible and learn how to overcome these situations. You want to be able to succeed in any environment. Coaching helps short-term, but I would argue that it's more beneficial to the long-term. This whole thing is just simple theory for competitive gaming; I honestly can't believe nobody sees my point (except for KB, but even then he doesn't really agree).

Sovereign, I'm not a brawl player (melee/mvc3 player), so I doubt I could beat you in brawl. Even then, your coaching argument is incorrect there as well. You would likely win based off of your own talent alone (although you did get 25th, kind of a tempting offer . . .), and coaching would more than likely have nothing to do with it.

Basically, your initial assessment of "I lost because the other person was coached" is a very incorrect statement. You lost because of your own fault. You weren't familiar with a different line of attack that your opponent may have had, and that is your own fault. You are always the one responsible for your losses, not another person. You're the one that controls how well you do and how you will react to your different opponents. Of course, this is all theory-based. You cannot blame your losses on other people.
 

Overswarm

is laughing at you
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May 4, 2005
Messages
21,181
I am still not understand how both players don't get better. The one being coached figures out a line of attack/defense that is good against their opponent. He will use this information in the future to not lose to a similar strategy. Likewise, his opponent must figure out how to react to the counter-attack. He also figures out different lines of attack/defense, and this will help him in the long term as well. What's the point of any competitive game? To be the best? How do you become the best? You familiarize yourself with as many different situations as possible and learn how to overcome these situations. You want to be able to succeed in any environment. Coaching helps short-term, but I would argue that it's more beneficial to the long-term. This whole thing is just simple theory for competitive gaming; I honestly can't believe nobody sees my point (except for KB, but even then he doesn't really agree).

Sovereign, I'm not a brawl player (melee/mvc3 player), so I doubt I could beat you in brawl. Even then, your coaching argument is incorrect there as well. You would likely win based off of your own talent alone (although you did get 25th, kind of a tempting offer . . .), and coaching would more than likely have nothing to do with it.

Basically, your initial assessment of "I lost because the other person was coached" is a very incorrect statement. You lost because of your own fault. You weren't familiar with a different line of attack that your opponent may have had, and that is your own fault. You are always the one responsible for your losses, not another person. You're the one that controls how well you do and how you will react to your different opponents. Of course, this is all theory-based. You cannot blame your losses on other people.
I can blame my losses on other people all the time. If I'm owning some Snake main because he always air dodges back to the stage and I catch him, then some guy says "he's reading your air dodge every time" and then he beats me, that guy is responsible. :p

Tournaments are where you go to test what yo'uve learned, not to learn. Learning is a side effect at tournaments.
 

Sovereign

Game Reaper
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Sovereign90
Sovereign, I'm not a brawl player (melee/mvc3 player), so I doubt I could beat you in brawl. Even then, your coaching argument is incorrect there as well. You would likely win based off of your own talent alone (although you did get 25th, kind of a tempting offer . . .), and coaching would more than likely have nothing to do with it.
How unfortunate... Tell me what game you do play, and I'll pick it up, play you, and have an appropriate player coach me. If it's Street Fighter, I'll have Renegade coach me, and you'll be done for. Instead of talking, I'd rather physically prove my point to you, so that you understand why it shouldn't be allowed during a game.
 

What's The Point

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
3,830
Location
Plymouth, MI
Coaching is not going to make some one win a game they should or could not win. It can give them to advantage to win a more even game, but an average player isn't going to beat a good player even with a great coach.


I'm sad that I didn't go to this, but I couldn't do a three hour drive by myself. Damn your $5 entrants, despite being overall better than $10, Lain wouldn't wake up for $5.
 

Eddie G

Smash Hero
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neohmarth216
Even so, an average player will forever remain an average player if they continue to rely on coaching like that. An average player's main focus should be on his/her own improvement above all else, and one would think that the player would reject help that would slow them down in the long run.
 

MegamanX14

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 27, 2006
Messages
194
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Columbus, OH (OSU)
If you're not going to tournaments to learn, then I don't know what to tell you. Tournaments are always about gaining experience and learning from your mistakes. After all, you are trying to be optimal, correct? Winning is nice, of course, but I feel like tournaments are more of trying to become the best you possibly can.

And yeah I'm done arguing with you sovereign. You're obviously an idiot. You are horrible at arguing and your stance of "lemme beat your face in so I can show you you're wrong" just further proves that you're completely missing my point (or, rather, not even trying to comprehend what I'm saying).

KB: I disagree with that. I feel like if you actually want to learn and try to succeed, then coaching is great. It teaches you how to overcome a problem you have, and you will use that information down the road to better yourself as a player. Relying on coaching is different, but just coaching and giving an outside perspective on your game can make a very large difference.
 

Eddie G

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neohmarth216
Megaman, there's nothing wrong with learning from other players during a tournament (I ask questions all the time, especially when I'm out of state in a better region)...but there is simply a time and a place for it. Coaching insults the integrity of a 1 vs 1 tournament match if given while it is in progress, and I don't advise getting used to the idea, since this was one of the rare occurrences where it's even allowed.
 

Sovereign

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And yeah I'm done arguing with you sovereign. You're obviously an idiot. You are horrible at arguing and your stance of "lemme beat your face in so I can show you you're wrong" just further proves that you're completely missing my point (or, rather, not even trying to comprehend what I'm saying).
Disrespect isn't tolerated my way, so I would kindly suggest you not do it. You're simply misinterpreting my chosen method to make it clear that coaching is tilted, and that it negates what tournaments, especially in Brawl's case, are about, since you've had more than one person defend the point that it shouldn't be allowed. You say it should be allowed because, somehow, both players learn. I say it shouldn't be allowed because the one on one aspect of singles tournaments are destroyed by the simple fact that two heads are greater than one.
 

Overswarm

is laughing at you
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May 4, 2005
Messages
21,181
If you're not going to tournaments to learn, then I don't know what to tell you. Tournaments are always about gaining experience and learning from your mistakes. After all, you are trying to be optimal, correct? Winning is nice, of course, but I feel like tournaments are more of trying to become the best you possibly can.

And yeah I'm done arguing with you sovereign. You're obviously an idiot. You are horrible at arguing and your stance of "lemme beat your face in so I can show you you're wrong" just further proves that you're completely missing my point (or, rather, not even trying to comprehend what I'm saying).

KB: I disagree with that. I feel like if you actually want to learn and try to succeed, then coaching is great. It teaches you how to overcome a problem you have, and you will use that information down the road to better yourself as a player. Relying on coaching is different, but just coaching and giving an outside perspective on your game can make a very large difference.
Not to burst your bubble, but tournaments aren't smashfests. You learn at tournaments, but you don't go to tournaments with the predisposition that it was created for you to learn. It was created for a competition. We make friends at tournaments too, but splitting is discouraged despite its connection with friendship. Yes, you can learn, but you can't justify hurting someone else's set to further your own goals. Competition first.
 

AlphaZealot

Former Smashboards Owner
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Here is the only problem I have with coaching:
Often it is 2 v 1. When I coached Wakka (barely might I add) it was 2 minds versus 1, Sov had a massive disadvantage.

Now, you could say 2 v 2 coaching would be okay. For that I semi-agree. The problem though is the good players coach people they know, and the newer players get screwed because they don't know anyone, and even if they do, they may not be good.
 

KassandraNova

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OS is right. Also you're making yourself look like an ******* by calling Sov an idiot because he's passionate about proving his point. Sounds to me like you're afraid of playing him with someone coaching him, because either:
1. you're terrible 2. you're afraid of being wrong/losing

So stop disrespecting Sov, and put up or shut up. ^_^
 
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