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ROB Q&A!! Read this before asking questions...ALL OF IT!
- Thread starter Overswarm
- Start date
Sudai
Stuff here
I thought so for a while as well, but now I'm thinking it's more neutral, if not slightly in ROB's favor. Can't really camp as well as normal, but you can still do it if you do it right. Glide toss while throwing gyro down = too good.
Oh, my favorite thing about the Zelda fight (that I learned yesterday). If the Zelda is by a ledge, stand at max FTilt range and just poke at her. She has no moves fast enough or with enough range to punish you. If she rolls towards the ledge, step forward and repeat. If she rolls to you, he roll end literally right in front of ROB. lol. So ****. Her only options are to jump or drop to the ledge.
Oh, my favorite thing about the Zelda fight (that I learned yesterday). If the Zelda is by a ledge, stand at max FTilt range and just poke at her. She has no moves fast enough or with enough range to punish you. If she rolls towards the ledge, step forward and repeat. If she rolls to you, he roll end literally right in front of ROB. lol. So ****. Her only options are to jump or drop to the ledge.
Sudai
Stuff here
Din's and UAir are too easy to avoid. The only thing I regularly get hit with of the three is the toe. The toe is a -*****-. : (
JJR.O.B.
Smash Ace
I have no trouble at all with Zeldas
they are just easy meat for my R.O.B.
they are just easy meat for my R.O.B.
toasty
Smash Hero
that's because you're trying for the dair >_> that basically means you're asking for it. not insulting you, just letting you know it's a bad idea against Zelda. You should only try the dair in certain situations because it's SUCH a slow move. Only do it if you know it will hit [like if Zelda has to use her upB]...it's not always the best course of action, but that's one application.
but there are two points to note:
general note against Zelda: do NOT stay above her in the air unless you have low damage and a downward attack/defense that will outrange/trade hits with Zelda's upair...but really it's usually not worth it unless you're Marth and it's over the edge and you can get a spike...
general note as ROB: he has a huge blindspot underneath him. Anything that can hit below him [nair/dair] are too slow to consider a defense from below.
Overswarm
is laughing at you
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
- Messages
- 21,181
There are two ways to predict your opponent.
The first is to simply observe what your opponent does, and then counter it AS he is doing it the next time that situation occurs.
For example, take a 0% backthrow off the edge. The opponent is obviously in danger and wants to get out of it. He has many options, but the main two are jump immediately or wait and jump to the ledge after falling a bit. You can counter teh immediate jump by jumping yourself and fairing, the other by running off and fairing.
After watching your opponent jump, you can safely assume next time he will jump again unless he suspects trickery. At this point, you can capitalize on his mistake by jumping out and fairing immediately, destroying their second jump and hopefully gimping them.
This can be done with anything. Does someone always spot dodge when you jump in with an aerial? Do they always roll behind you? What do they do?
To get better at observing your opponent, make a deliberate effort to note what they are doing at all times. I had a conversation with a smasher once who literally ONLY thought about what happens when he throws them off the edge, and it was ONLY about jumping or not jumping. That was it. He very literally followed the examples I give.
Just think in your head... what am I doing? You do the same things repeatedly in every game; your opponent will find something to do that works. Are you approaching with a short hop fair? Say in your head "I'm short hop fairing... and he is.... SHIELD GRABBING ME."
You now know the next time you short hop towards him, he will expect a fair and shield. Instead, wait and land and grab, or wait and back-air.
This creates a mix-up game very quickly. You'll notice at high level play that every approach is essentially a very advanced and developed rock-paper-scissors match; at low level play, there is often one better player doing the same approaches over and over again because he doesn't need to change it up. Without some sort of catalyst (i.e., opponent's reacting properly) there is no reason to change. Who cares if you could be doing something better and 3 stocking them if you're winning every match with 2 stock high % anyway?
The other way to predict your opponent is to know their options in advance and know what the best option is at that time.
Take Fox vs. ROB as an example. If ROB has a gyro, the Fox will expect it to be thrown or to have a glide toss. ROB, knowing this, knows that Fox's best option at long distance is to wait for ROB to start the animation and then hold out his shine. Because ROB knows this, he can glide toss towards him while throwing the gyro up or down and then attacking Fox out of the shine, which is now harmless.
If Snake up+bs and ROB up+bs to follow, as Snake falls it is in his best interest to air dodge as ROB could easily nair him to kill him at low % from that height. ROB, knowing this, can then wait and nair slightly later than normal and hit him after the air dodge.
To get better at this, well, it just takes experience. I frequently visit the other character specific forums and see what people think is just soooo broken or sooo bad about their character, then use it against them. I also like to see what they think is super amazing; I learned long ago that Metaknight likes to up+b from the ledge. Jokes on metaknight; it trades hits with ROB's bair, and it can also be spot dodged easily. That sets MK up for a laser or a bair. Go ROB. :D
That's my brief little lesson on that.
The second way takes knowledge, the first way takes attentive observation and thought to your opponent's actions in each individual game.
Overswarm
is laughing at you
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
- Messages
- 21,181
There are two ways to predict your opponent.
The first is to simply observe what your opponent does, and then counter it AS he is doing it the next time that situation occurs.
For example, take a 0% backthrow off the edge. The opponent is obviously in danger and wants to get out of it. He has many options, but the main two are jump immediately or wait and jump to the ledge after falling a bit. You can counter teh immediate jump by jumping yourself and fairing, the other by running off and fairing.
After watching your opponent jump, you can safely assume next time he will jump again unless he suspects trickery. At this point, you can capitalize on his mistake by jumping out and fairing immediately, destroying their second jump and hopefully gimping them.
This can be done with anything. Does someone always spot dodge when you jump in with an aerial? Do they always roll behind you? What do they do?
To get better at observing your opponent, make a deliberate effort to note what they are doing at all times. I had a conversation with a smasher once who literally ONLY thought about what happens when he throws them off the edge, and it was ONLY about jumping or not jumping. That was it. He very literally followed the examples I give.
Just think in your head... what am I doing? You do the same things repeatedly in every game; your opponent will find something to do that works. Are you approaching with a short hop fair? Say in your head "I'm short hop fairing... and he is.... SHIELD GRABBING ME."
You now know the next time you short hop towards him, he will expect a fair and shield. Instead, wait and land and grab, or wait and back-air.
This creates a mix-up game very quickly. You'll notice at high level play that every approach is essentially a very advanced and developed rock-paper-scissors match; at low level play, there is often one better player doing the same approaches over and over again because he doesn't need to change it up. Without some sort of catalyst (i.e., opponent's reacting properly) there is no reason to change. Who cares if you could be doing something better and 3 stocking them if you're winning every match with 2 stock high % anyway?
The other way to predict your opponent is to know their options in advance and know what the best option is at that time.
Take Fox vs. ROB as an example. If ROB has a gyro, the Fox will expect it to be thrown or to have a glide toss. ROB, knowing this, knows that Fox's best option at long distance is to wait for ROB to start the animation and then hold out his shine. Because ROB knows this, he can glide toss towards him while throwing the gyro up or down and then attacking Fox out of the shine, which is now harmless.
If Snake up+bs and ROB up+bs to follow, as Snake falls it is in his best interest to air dodge as ROB could easily nair him to kill him at low % from that height. ROB, knowing this, can then wait and nair slightly later than normal and hit him after the air dodge.
To get better at this, well, it just takes experience. I frequently visit the other character specific forums and see what people think is just soooo broken or sooo bad about their character, then use it against them. I also like to see what they think is super amazing; I learned long ago that Metaknight likes to up+b from the ledge. Jokes on metaknight; it trades hits with ROB's bair, and it can also be spot dodged easily. That sets MK up for a laser or a bair. Go ROB. :D
That's my brief little lesson on that.
The second way takes knowledge, the first way takes attentive observation and thought to your opponent's actions in each individual game.
Overswarm
is laughing at you
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
- Messages
- 21,181
There are two ways to predict your opponent.
The first is to simply observe what your opponent does, and then counter it AS he is doing it the next time that situation occurs.
For example, take a 0% backthrow off the edge. The opponent is obviously in danger and wants to get out of it. He has many options, but the main two are jump immediately or wait and jump to the ledge after falling a bit. You can counter teh immediate jump by jumping yourself and fairing, the other by running off and fairing.
After watching your opponent jump, you can safely assume next time he will jump again unless he suspects trickery. At this point, you can capitalize on his mistake by jumping out and fairing immediately, destroying their second jump and hopefully gimping them.
This can be done with anything. Does someone always spot dodge when you jump in with an aerial? Do they always roll behind you? What do they do?
To get better at observing your opponent, make a deliberate effort to note what they are doing at all times. I had a conversation with a smasher once who literally ONLY thought about what happens when he throws them off the edge, and it was ONLY about jumping or not jumping. That was it. He very literally followed the examples I give.
Just think in your head... what am I doing? You do the same things repeatedly in every game; your opponent will find something to do that works. Are you approaching with a short hop fair? Say in your head "I'm short hop fairing... and he is.... SHIELD GRABBING ME."
You now know the next time you short hop towards him, he will expect a fair and shield. Instead, wait and land and grab, or wait and back-air.
This creates a mix-up game very quickly. You'll notice at high level play that every approach is essentially a very advanced and developed rock-paper-scissors match; at low level play, there is often one better player doing the same approaches over and over again because he doesn't need to change it up. Without some sort of catalyst (i.e., opponent's reacting properly) there is no reason to change. Who cares if you could be doing something better and 3 stocking them if you're winning every match with 2 stock high % anyway?
The other way to predict your opponent is to know their options in advance and know what the best option is at that time.
Take Fox vs. ROB as an example. If ROB has a gyro, the Fox will expect it to be thrown or to have a glide toss. ROB, knowing this, knows that Fox's best option at long distance is to wait for ROB to start the animation and then hold out his shine. Because ROB knows this, he can glide toss towards him while throwing the gyro up or down and then attacking Fox out of the shine, which is now harmless.
If Snake up+bs and ROB up+bs to follow, as Snake falls it is in his best interest to air dodge as ROB could easily nair him to kill him at low % from that height. ROB, knowing this, can then wait and nair slightly later than normal and hit him after the air dodge.
To get better at this, well, it just takes experience. I frequently visit the other character specific forums and see what people think is just soooo broken or sooo bad about their character, then use it against them. I also like to see what they think is super amazing; I learned long ago that Metaknight likes to up+b from the ledge. Jokes on metaknight; it trades hits with ROB's bair, and it can also be spot dodged easily. That sets MK up for a laser or a bair. Go ROB. :D
That's my brief little lesson on that.
The second way takes knowledge, the first way takes attentive observation and thought to your opponent's actions in each individual game.
MookieRah
Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
I FINALLY got a chance to play yesterday, ironic since I started posting I haven't played Brawl up till yesterday due to not having my wiimote, and I was playing some local friends of mine and I could see the potential of a few matchups being relatively rough.
OS, what is your take on dealing with Marth's? Is it me, or is the spacing for the tip of ROB's ftilt virtually the same as Marth's tipper? That makes for a pretty scary spacing game O_o.
Lastly, what are some good ways to gimp Diddy? I know it has to be possible, but it's pretty hard to land dair spikes with any consistency.
OS, what is your take on dealing with Marth's? Is it me, or is the spacing for the tip of ROB's ftilt virtually the same as Marth's tipper? That makes for a pretty scary spacing game O_o.
Lastly, what are some good ways to gimp Diddy? I know it has to be possible, but it's pretty hard to land dair spikes with any consistency.
JJR.O.B.
Smash Ace
Good News guys, R.O.B. moved up on the character ranking list by Ankoku he is now 5th behind D3
he used to be 7th place
he used to be 7th place
maXXXpower
Smash Champion
ROB is too good.
toasty
Smash Hero
maxxx! I know it's like...not even 2 weeks notice...but you should come to Critical Hit 3 in Maryland ^_^ July 5th!!! Just...go to Cali and get in DSF's suitcase haha
As for those ROBs who ARE attending CH3, we gotta step our **** up...we can't be settling for 17th, 13th, 7th, 5th, or even 4th!!! Yeah those placings were at pretty big tourneys, but no bull**** like NJ/MD/VA Metaknights should ever be the reason we don't take top spots [I think Nackers, JCaesar, Karn, and I were all knocked out by them >_>] No Johns...the **** can be done.
As for those ROBs who ARE attending CH3, we gotta step our **** up...we can't be settling for 17th, 13th, 7th, 5th, or even 4th!!! Yeah those placings were at pretty big tourneys, but no bull**** like NJ/MD/VA Metaknights should ever be the reason we don't take top spots [I think Nackers, JCaesar, Karn, and I were all knocked out by them >_>] No Johns...the **** can be done.
Just don't lose to Plank >_<
Sudai
Stuff here
ROBs should take 1st through 8th at least. That's like..18 points for ROB in Ankoku's list.
toasty
Smash Hero
daaamn good **** =D and XD...we'll see about you winning any big EC tourneys >_>
I don't know when the next C3 is [the most recent was yesterday so I'm assuming the date for the next one is TBA] but you should definitely come through for the next one ^_^ Just keep a look out for the date I guess?
I don't know when the next C3 is [the most recent was yesterday so I'm assuming the date for the next one is TBA] but you should definitely come through for the next one ^_^ Just keep a look out for the date I guess?
Kyas
Smash Journeyman
Do you use a custom control scheme for R.O.B.?
JCaesar
Smash Hero
Bair ***** diddy's recovery. Diddy's like to use their f-B, and it's real easy to plant a bair at the end of it. It'll also stop his up-B pretty easily if you drop off the edge and bair at the right time. It's a lot easier than spiking him anyway.
Also just gotta say, MD/VA has too many daamn MKs. I've only lost to MKs for the last 3 or 4 tourneys. Bleh.
Where is a good place to counterpick MK? I've been trying out a bunch of different good ROB levels, but they all fail me. Luigi's Mansion is especially bad, thanks Plank for teaching me that one!
ehhh I like luigi's mansion or jungle japes when theyre not banned. Jungles japes allows for massive camping and luigi's mansion allows for crazy dthrow dsmash etc. combos off the celing of the bottom floor. It also really cuts down mk air game especially if they are unfarmiliar with the stage.
CT Chia
Smash Obsessed
ROBs are gonna step it up this tourney, I know it. Me, u, Nacker, Chozen... any other ROBs? Yea and DSF is going, and I'm housing him lol. DSF practice for like 3 days before the tourney? I think I'm gonna do good lol
Overswarm
is laughing at you
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
- Messages
- 21,181
Seriously? You guys are too good at being TOs :\
I can't even find a venue that doesn't charge $3k a night.
Luigi's mansion is only good if you're adept at dealing with the tornado....
I would suggest taking Metaknight to any stage you are comfortable wtih that he might not normally play. MK has very few "bad stages", so this works in your favor. The worst thing for MK is to be unable to KO, so large stages like jungle japes could be a good decision if you play well on it.
JCaesar
Smash Hero
Chozen quit ROB cause I ***** him too hard in our ditto. That's what I heard anyway, he hasn't been to a tourney in a long time.
I'm gonna try Jungle Japes against MK next time. I'd also like to try Rainbow Cruise but I don't see it working that well.
toasty
Smash Hero
I've already told you this JCaez [hah, saw someone say that in the EC group, it stuck.] but I'll say my best levels against MK as a counterpick have been Halberd and Rainbow Cruise. I would add Battlefield but maxxxPower and I seem to be some of the very few ROBs who like that level
EDIT: Jungle Japes is good times. Beware Klaptraps
...and Luigi's Mansion depends on how good you are camping and dealing with tornado
EDIT: Jungle Japes is good times. Beware Klaptraps
...and Luigi's Mansion depends on how good you are camping and dealing with tornadoJJR.O.B.
Smash Ace
Im with you on Battle field it is an awesome R.O.B. stage
Kyas
Smash Journeyman
toasty
Smash Hero
MK's mask is really just a giant pacifier with giant rubber **** instead of a nipple.
lolll, wow 0-90? that's rough See you in a couple weeks Plank! I gotta get you back for those friendlies ^_^
lolll, wow 0-90? that's rough
See you in a couple weeks Plank! I gotta get you back for those friendlies ^_^toasty
Smash Hero
edit: how'd that happen >_>
Overswarm
is laughing at you
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
- Messages
- 21,181
Are you able to drag his ROB with the tornado so you can keep doing it? I always smash DI the first hit towards the edge and attempt to walltech off the little ledge, but a few MKs have told me that won't work because they can always control where the ROB is going... I don't know if I believe it, since SDIing then teching only gets you hit for a measly 5% or so.
JCaesar
Smash Hero
ugh, MK is nigh unapproachable on mansion, and I'm not big on camping, not sure it would've worked anyway. Our first match was pretty close though plank, I just need anti-gay practice, and to not pick bad counterpicks. I'll get you back at crit hit.
yeah, to be honest i prefer wario vs ROB, lol, i just knew you hate MK so i figured hell, why not? =D
OS u might be able to do some crazy smash DI depending on ur situation, but rob does get carried REALLY easily by MKs tornadoes, so i dont know. i just kept him towards the middle. it might depend where u get hit by the first tornado
OS u might be able to do some crazy smash DI depending on ur situation, but rob does get carried REALLY easily by MKs tornadoes, so i dont know. i just kept him towards the middle. it might depend where u get hit by the first tornado
toasty
Smash Hero
I've SDIed out of the tornado (from the side toward the middle/bottom of the tornado) and I think I did it by SDIing away and down from it immediately [obviously]
but that's kind of hard to do all the time...it's usually really easy to get carried. the solution is to get good at ground teching in that specific situation [the speed at which you fly between the ceiling and floor in the mansion makes things a little difficult] and tech roll away...otherwise you just keep getting carried, tornado after lagless tornado
but that's kind of hard to do all the time...it's usually really easy to get carried. the solution is to get good at ground teching in that specific situation [the speed at which you fly between the ceiling and floor in the mansion makes things a little difficult] and tech roll away...otherwise you just keep getting carried, tornado after lagless tornado
bajisci
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2007
- Messages
- 558
in my experiences that doesnt work at all, in a tourny i 2 stocked (him suiciding counts) dmbrandon's mk on FD then he 2 stocked me on rainbow cruise, ive only beaten an mk once on rainbow cruise><