Sudai
Stuff here
Why would you stale NAir on Nana when you can simply BAir/F/BThrow her off stage and then FAir gimp her?
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ROB Q&A!! Read this before asking questions...ALL OF IT!
- Thread starter Overswarm
- Start date
CJTHeroofTime
Smash Lord
Dude, that's not gimping. That's spamming Nair until it kills. That's pretty much the complete opposite of a gimp.
GwJ
Smash Hero
And ineffective.
N.A.G.A.C.E
Smash Champion
i have some questions about rob's side -B momentum cancel.
First i there a video of it.
2nd: Gwjumpman says you don't need to wave-bounce it (and i believe u but just making sure) and you just need to do a normal side-B. Is that right and if so does it matter which way you do the side B.
3: do u need to do a aerial first for this to work.
4th: how useful is this since side B is kinda slow and laggy?
I also have a question about slowing momentum with just aerials.
Q: Which aerial is robs best for slowing himself down? Is it f-air since its the fastest or is it bair or dair since they have momentum behind them. Also do u use a different aerial if you are going off the top or side.
Lastly do u always want to fast-fall the aerial you use to slow yourself down?
sorry if these have been asked before but i am not reading 265 pages to find out. Also if something i wrote is confusing (i am not a great writer) tell me and i will try to explain what i am asking again. I also want everyone to know i a not a rob noob i just stopped playing brawl for a while till about a month ago and so i missed a lot of stuff when i was not playing. Anyway these are all my questions i can think of right now thanks for your help (if you do help
)
First i there a video of it.
2nd: Gwjumpman says you don't need to wave-bounce it (and i believe u but just making sure) and you just need to do a normal side-B. Is that right and if so does it matter which way you do the side B.
3: do u need to do a aerial first for this to work.
4th: how useful is this since side B is kinda slow and laggy?
I also have a question about slowing momentum with just aerials.
Q: Which aerial is robs best for slowing himself down? Is it f-air since its the fastest or is it bair or dair since they have momentum behind them. Also do u use a different aerial if you are going off the top or side.
Lastly do u always want to fast-fall the aerial you use to slow yourself down?
sorry if these have been asked before but i am not reading 265 pages to find out. Also if something i wrote is confusing (i am not a great writer) tell me and i will try to explain what i am asking again. I also want everyone to know i a not a rob noob i just stopped playing brawl for a while till about a month ago and so i missed a lot of stuff when i was not playing. Anyway these are all my questions i can think of right now thanks for your help (if you do help
)
Tin Man
Smash Hero
I'm sorry people, but that strategy does work for me. I gimp Popo as to not rely on Nair, and I like it cause popo can't jump after ROB in the air but can chase me down offstage (in my experience).
Darth Waffles
Smash Lord
Zing!
Anyway, to Nagace,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Rqxx74MclI GwJ's unnecessarily long video... The last part is the only part worth watching
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=241753&page=9 The thread behind it. The discussion really picks up in the second half of the thread
There was also a bit in the Q&A but I don't know which posts cover it
Summary: For purely horizontal knockback, airdodge>side B is best. I haven't gotten wavebouncing it to help at all. For vertical, Dair is best/easiest for the amount that it reduces vertical knockback, but you can *just* get the same results from fair>Bair At a 45 degree angle (or close to it), fast falling an fair (instead of airdodging) and doing a regular side B is best. There are diagrams of this somewhere in the thread listed above.
Do the side B toward the stage. In extreme cases (DK's forward smash at 133) the side B doesn't cancel ALL momentum, but rather significantly reduces it so WAFFLEcoptering (sideB-ing) away from the stage wouldn't make sense.
For 3, you need to either airdodge or fair since it is ROB's fastest aerial before you can side B. If you didn't have to do this aerial, G&W's bucket braking would be even more broken.
As for #4, I don't see other ROBs using this much but it DOES work with strong knockback moves at high percents. There comes a point when you get hit so that you fly back with enough knockback to kill you even if you get an fair and 2 bairs, or an fair/upair/anything else. I like to use Link's Dair as an example. When hit with a similar attack, Dair becomes the best choice over Bair, even though Dair takes forever to end. The amount that it reduces knockback is worth the extra time because even though you can get out 3-4 bairs, you'll still die because you'll still be flying offstage, even if you DI the same way. Oddly enough, the extra time it takes to throw out a side B after an airdodge/FF'ed fair is justified by the part where side B lunges ROB forward, canceling a lot more knockback than any other option.
This also kind of answered your other questions but fastfalling Fair is best for horizontal because it is the fastest and Bair, despite its animation, doesn't actually help you more even though it's slower and it looks like it should. Dair (I use C stick and then immediately jam down on the Control stick, practically out of habit now) is best for purely vertical knockback but you can also get the same results if you perfectly time an fair and then Bair, perfectly fastfalling
Anyway, to Nagace,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Rqxx74MclI GwJ's unnecessarily long video... The last part is the only part worth watching
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=241753&page=9 The thread behind it. The discussion really picks up in the second half of the thread
There was also a bit in the Q&A but I don't know which posts cover it
Summary: For purely horizontal knockback, airdodge>side B is best. I haven't gotten wavebouncing it to help at all. For vertical, Dair is best/easiest for the amount that it reduces vertical knockback, but you can *just* get the same results from fair>Bair At a 45 degree angle (or close to it), fast falling an fair (instead of airdodging) and doing a regular side B is best. There are diagrams of this somewhere in the thread listed above.
Do the side B toward the stage. In extreme cases (DK's forward smash at 133) the side B doesn't cancel ALL momentum, but rather significantly reduces it so WAFFLEcoptering (sideB-ing) away from the stage wouldn't make sense.
For 3, you need to either airdodge or fair since it is ROB's fastest aerial before you can side B. If you didn't have to do this aerial, G&W's bucket braking would be even more broken.
As for #4, I don't see other ROBs using this much but it DOES work with strong knockback moves at high percents. There comes a point when you get hit so that you fly back with enough knockback to kill you even if you get an fair and 2 bairs, or an fair/upair/anything else. I like to use Link's Dair as an example. When hit with a similar attack, Dair becomes the best choice over Bair, even though Dair takes forever to end. The amount that it reduces knockback is worth the extra time because even though you can get out 3-4 bairs, you'll still die because you'll still be flying offstage, even if you DI the same way. Oddly enough, the extra time it takes to throw out a side B after an airdodge/FF'ed fair is justified by the part where side B lunges ROB forward, canceling a lot more knockback than any other option.
This also kind of answered your other questions but fastfalling Fair is best for horizontal because it is the fastest and Bair, despite its animation, doesn't actually help you more even though it's slower and it looks like it should. Dair (I use C stick and then immediately jam down on the Control stick, practically out of habit now) is best for purely vertical knockback but you can also get the same results if you perfectly time an fair and then Bair, perfectly fastfalling
GwJ
Smash Hero
I've actually incorporated it as a habitual part of my game and I live rather long. ROB lives long in the first place, that extra percent that let you live is enough to get 20 or so percent of damage or whatever; it helps.
N.A.G.A.C.E
Smash Champion
Thanks for he info its good to know. Wave-bouncing a side-B was a ***** for me so its good to know i don't have to.
Also thanks for what aerial to use and in which direction.(Kinda weird dair is better then bair for vertical since bair puts you parallel to the death boundary.)
recently my rob's gotten a lot better and now with this info it will get better still. (once i get use to doing these things)
Also thanks for what aerial to use and in which direction.(Kinda weird dair is better then bair for vertical since bair puts you parallel to the death boundary.)
recently my rob's gotten a lot better and now with this info it will get better still. (once i get use to doing these things)
Syde7
The Sultan of Smut
Hey guys, I need some help on ROB vs wolf matchup. I got my **** wrecked in the last tourney I attended. I've been having trouble how to deal with wolf's spaced bairs. To simply put it, once wolf got inside my spacing I would spotdodge/shield grab only to end up getting punished. Could I trade ROB's fair with wolf's bair? Also, how do you guys deal with his shine when he uses it up close?
Also, I've had trouble gimping this wolf. I've been eating wolf's side b in the face every time I went for the gimp.
Also, I've had trouble gimping this wolf. I've been eating wolf's side b in the face every time I went for the gimp.
SnackAttack
Smash Champion
So, what CAN we do Out-of-shield?
any char that likes to space/poke with high priority non-disjoint aerial attacks (wolf, kirby, pit to an extent, jigglypuff), just charge up your fsmash and angle it up
for OOS options, we have nothing like martha's up-b or bowsers fortress, I usually stick with grab/dodge/stay-shielded/(jab/ftilt but I don't know if they count as true OOS options) and that is enough options to deal with most scenarios... our OOS game isn't the greatest -- edit: if you're trying to punish a really laggy move with KO potential, sh-fair
for OOS options, we have nothing like martha's up-b or bowsers fortress, I usually stick with grab/dodge/stay-shielded/(jab/ftilt but I don't know if they count as true OOS options) and that is enough options to deal with most scenarios... our OOS game isn't the greatest -- edit: if you're trying to punish a really laggy move with KO potential, sh-fair
Do not spotdodge OoS. You can use Dsmash, Ftilt, Shield Grab, Dtilt, Usmash(sometimes) and Fsmash(sometimes).
@Brutos: Don't get hit by Bair. You're big and Bair ****s you. Take Wolf off-stage, we can have some amazing gimps on him. Spotdodge to Dsmash >>> Wolf's Fsmash. In short, try to punish ROB while taking him off-stage.
@Dull: he's back!
@Brutos: Don't get hit by Bair. You're big and Bair ****s you. Take Wolf off-stage, we can have some amazing gimps on him. Spotdodge to Dsmash >>> Wolf's Fsmash. In short, try to punish ROB while taking him off-stage.
@Dull: he's back!
Mr.E
Smash Lord
Wolf will just keep lasering you in the face if you wait for him to jump in with BAir. :/ He also falls much more quickly than Kirby and friends, where FSmash works a lot better as anti-air because they're floaty and can't jump over it as quickly.
lol he asked specifically for a move which counters bair, and I ave it as for overall wolf strategy, of course standing there charging fsmash isn't going to win...
as for dodging OoS... I kind of think of that option like the rofl-copter, only a bit better... usually a bad idea, but against agro char's who like to shield poke (mario/luigi/mk) sometimes it really is the right option
as for overall wolf strategy, of course standing there charging fsmash isn't going to win...as for dodging OoS... I kind of think of that option like the rofl-copter, only a bit better... usually a bad idea, but against agro char's who like to shield poke (mario/luigi/mk) sometimes it really is the right option
It can be good, but not right option. IMO there're better options than Spotdodge OoS, such as Dsmash(probably what you're going to use after spot dodging) and Ftilt.
Sudai
Stuff here
My favorite is still Taunt OoS.
edit: ^^ epic win
smash/ftilt both don't hit above me, and utilt doesn't come out quick enough/enough priority/hit properly approaching people... a perfect (non mk) example would be luigi -- his sh->double attack will often shield poke (nair), the only options are to jump->fair or attempt to dodge the second attack... jump->fair is the better option, but once he's expecting it he can change the way he moves to guarantee trade with you, and his nair has KO potential and does more damage -- not a good trade for rob
smash/ftilt both don't hit above me, and utilt doesn't come out quick enough/enough priority/hit properly approaching people... a perfect (non mk) example would be luigi -- his sh->double attack will often shield poke (nair), the only options are to jump->fair or attempt to dodge the second attack... jump->fair is the better option, but once he's expecting it he can change the way he moves to guarantee trade with you, and his nair has KO potential and does more damage -- not a good trade for rob
I'd rather continuing shielding nair and then shield grab/dsmash. Also, we have to perfectly spotdodge, one second missed, you get hit, especially from that ****ing nair that luigi has.
Ok, I'll try that. I think my problem fighting wolf is when I miss a gimp while Wolf is offstage trying to recover. Roles reverse and I find myself eating ledgedrop shines/bairs till I run out of gas which should not even happen to a ROB. Thx Mike.
Also, does an angled Ftilt outrange marth's fair?
Sudai
Stuff here
Brutos, either recover high or stall under the stage and wait for him to drop and do something.
As for Marth's FAir, I wouldn't try it. They're about the same speed and his is more disjointed.
As for Marth's FAir, I wouldn't try it. They're about the same speed and his is more disjointed.
CJTHeroofTime
Smash Lord
Oh wow you're back to Brawl now?
N.A.G.A.C.E
Smash Champion
? are you referencing me posting on brawl+ or are you referencing me not going to a tourney for 6 months or so?
If you are talking about brawl+ then yes i am still into brawl and i also play brawl+
If you are talking about how i have not gone to a tourney for a long time then yes i am back into brawl and my rob is better then ever, and i can't wait to take him to a tourney sadly there don't seem to be any coming up. i heard about one on nov 7th but i will be out of state on the weekend.
edit: yea i kinda remember you (no offense i am bad at remembering names and stuff.) yea back and better then ever
Mr.E
Smash Lord
FTilt outranges Marth's FAir enough that I am comfortable brickwalling his brick wall with it.
GwJ
Smash Hero
Do you angle it upwards?
Mr.E
Smash Lord
What's this nonsense about Luigi? He moves at the speed of molasses, ROB can camp him all day and night even without projectiles.
Obviously. A straight FTilt doesn't have a whole lot of vertical reach, tilted it can hit most any large character out of a short hop.
If I'm not mistaken, last 6 frames from the Spotdodge, ROB isn't invencible anymore. Which means that if you Spotdodge at the wrong time, you'll get hit. IMO other things OoS are safer than Spotdodging.
Tin Man
Smash Hero
Tilt the sheild up against luigi. Then attack OoS.
Mr.E, do u tilt the Ftilt upwards on marth? Also it seems that marth has more priority and therefore it is futile to hit Marth while he is hitting you, you have to hit between his attacks.
Mr.E, do u tilt the Ftilt upwards on marth? Also it seems that marth has more priority and therefore it is futile to hit Marth while he is hitting you, you have to hit between his attacks.
Darth Waffles
Smash Lord
Yes, tilt it up. Also, since I couldn't resist bringing this from the other thread
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=238461
Then again, consider this
I can't find the original "glide toss-up b????" thread for some reason but I did find some lulzy threads along the way.
Yeah. We're kind of famous for that actually
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=238461
Then again, consider this
lol <3. Yay really old threads. I have yet to use Snake in a tournament but I have been practicing him specifically for the MK matchup. I've got two tournaments over the next two weekends so we'll see how that goes. It's up to you as to how far you want to, or more importantly, how far you can actually go with ROB. I live in a MK-infested region and I'm tired of playing at a clear character disadvantage, even on a counterpick. For every other character though, I'm determined to stay ROB.
I can't find the original "glide toss-up b????" thread for some reason but I did find some lulzy threads along the way.
the MK MU isn't so hard(yes, it's hard, but not that much as some people say). However, it's our worst one IMO. You need to be attentive to every single movement of your opponent and try to avoid/punish it.
It's difficult, but not impossible/very difficult.
/hope
It's difficult, but not impossible/very difficult.
/hope
Mr.E
Smash Lord
I'm not sure it's our worst one (ZSS?) but it's one of ROB's toughest match-ups by default simply because ROB doesn't have a whole lot of "bad" match-ups.
Zamus wins in the air. MK wins more than Zamus in the air. Oh wow, MK wins every where =0 I really thing that MK is our worst one, and I don't mind Zamus' infinite too much because it's just too dificult to perform, especially in a tense match.
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Tornado > ROB
/jk
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Tornado > ROB
/jk
N.A.G.A.C.E
Smash Champion
i would say mk is rob's worst MU but it is doable. (I have never played a good zss before so i might be wrong). Still my own worst Mu is olimar i would much rather fight mk then oli ay day.
Also it seems i was posting on the wrong thread before since everyone on it seemed greatly against rob having a chance vs mk, while here on this thread everyone is willing to say it can be done.
And Darth: Let me explain what my post u quoted was about. I was pointing out how so many people on the rob boards wont even entertain the idea of the mk MU being winnable and i was saying it seems like one day someone came and said can't be done and everyone agreed. Anyway i do like that there really was a thread were someone wrote it can't be done kinda funny.
Also it seems i was posting on the wrong thread before since everyone on it seemed greatly against rob having a chance vs mk, while here on this thread everyone is willing to say it can be done.
And Darth: Let me explain what my post u quoted was about. I was pointing out how so many people on the rob boards wont even entertain the idea of the mk MU being winnable and i was saying it seems like one day someone came and said can't be done and everyone agreed. Anyway i do like that there really was a thread were someone wrote it can't be done kinda funny.
Sudai
Stuff here
The MU -is- winnable, just not against someone that's on an even skill level as you. There's a big difference.
N.A.G.A.C.E
Smash Champion
in fact i think it is winnable against someone of equal skill. This does not leave the rob boards but the mk i get to play against a lot is just about as even skill wise with me as u can get. I will ever admit it to him and just keep saying he does well using a cheap character or in the past the cheap ic's inf grab but in truth he and i are about even and guess what my rob can beat him.
Silhouette
Smash Lord
We can at least out range her and shes not super fast like MK, and she needs to land a Dsmash to start the infinite which is actually easy to avoid, not that bad a MU IMO.
In friendlies or in tournament? how gay is he willing to be with nado/gimping? I find that when MK isn't playing the pressure>nado>pressure>nado till your off the stage to be gimped its a much easier matchup to handle.
Tin Man
Smash Hero
All of Rob's matchups are doable, some are very difficult, and one of them are MK