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Reverse + Shortened Up-b Recoveries (Video Included)

Discussion in 'Melee Discussion' started by AXE 09, Apr 28, 2010.

  1. AXE 09

    AXE 09
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    VIDEO:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9nivZx7U8c

    Note: The following applies to both grounded up-b and ariel up-b recoveries.

    REVERSE UP+B
    I'm not sure if anyone has already discovered this or not. I know that a few of you may have done it on accident but never knew how to actually do it.

    Have you ever been playing a character like Mewtwo or Sheik and found yourself somewhat under the stage (imagine Final Destinatioin or Battlefield), so the only direction you could teleport is strait up? But you're facing away from the edge, and there's no way you can turn around to grab the edge when you teleport strait up..... or is there?? Well it turns out... yes you can!

    To do this, begin your up-b. Now at the startup of your up-b (before your character starts to actually moves/vanishes), you must LIGHTLY tilt the control stick in the opposite direction you are facing. This tilt must be light enough so that you do not actually travel in that direction. The end result will be you traveling upwards and ending up facing the opposite direction.

    This works for 5 characters: Mewtwo, Pichu, Pikachu, Sheik, and Zelda.

    One interesting thing that I found was that Fox and Falco cannot perform this technique (I honestly thought it would work for them because they have somewhat similar recoveries). I know that they can turn around if they touch a wall (like the side of FD) when they up-b strait up, but unfortunately you cannot turn around using the same method as the other 5 characters.

    Note: Pikachu and Pichu can turn around during the second zip of their up-b's, as demonstrated here (also including going upwards twice)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUrKbyyJWas

    For more information about Pikachu/Pichu going upwards twice, you can visit here:
    http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=273075

    SHORTENED UP+B
    First of all, I did not discover this technique. I am not sure who was the first to discover this, but Insane Carzy Guy was the one who told me about it.

    Interestingly enough, I found that the exact same characters who can perform the reverse up-b are also the only ones who can shorten their up-b recoveries. That is: Mewtwo, Pichu, Pikachu, Sheik, and Zelda.

    To do this, first press up-b (of course). Now, in the direction of which you desire to go (left, down, any diagonal angle, etc. etc.), you must tilt the control stick in that direction instead of pressing it all the way. How short your up-b will become will depend on how lightly you tilt the control stick in that direction. Yes, there are a few different lengths of which you can shorten it. Also, if you want to go up, it's easier to just only tilt up and then press b while keeping it tilted (instead of pressing fully upwards for your up-b and then having to slide your control stick slightly downwards). This is the easiest way to go strait up (as demonstrated in the video) because you can input your tilt before pressing b, resulting in a larger window to input the directional tilt.

    Note: Pikachu and Pichu can also shorten the second zip of their up-b.

    One last thing:
    If you press up-b, then let go of the control stick so that it is in the neutral position before your character takes off/vanishes, you will travel strait up in the maximum distance possible. So in order to go the maximum distance, you can either press the control stick all the way, or you can leave the control stick in the neutral position (but of course, you can only go upwards using the second method as most people should know).

    Also, when you perform the reverse up-b, you will travel strait upwards in the maximum distance possible as well. I'm not sure if you can do a reverse up-b while shortening your recovery as well. I've tried (by using diagonally tilted angles) but could never get it.

    Well.... glad I could share with everyone =) Hope I was able to help out.
     
  2. V3ctorMan

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    axe told me to demonstrate it like 2-4times... facing each direction... so total of 4-8 times... lol.. and Axe sucks too...

    Lmao.. j/k, anyway (truthfully, I demonstrated about 3-4 times on facing each direction, to show shortened, and regular.. not exactly sure why.. but whatever.. =p)

    NOTE: Axe's Pikachu is pretty bad (against Pichu) lol try it.. you'll love your results

    and yeah there you go..lol.. hit me up for tips how to beat Axe....lol j/k j/k
     
  3. The Irish Mafia

    The Irish Mafia
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    M2K said you can just do the short one by not pressing the D stick as hard. Good informative post.
     
  4. Geist

    Geist
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    I love you Axe.
    I really do.
     
  5. justice

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    OMG, I think this is just the thing I need to take my game to the next level. Thank you so much Axe & Vectorman!!!! Can Axe beat a chainsaw?
     
  6. xbombr

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    Huh, didn't know you could shorten the UB's.
     
  7. porc

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    thanks, now sheik is even more broken :)

    just kidding, this is awesome, i didnt know about both !
     
  8. TheLifeRuiner

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    why samus whyyyyyyyyy

    no matter samus rapes anyways :)
     
  9. INSANE CARZY GUY

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    Ohhh :( "goes back to playing as another doesn't **** tier" why does everyone esle **** :(

    All finding came from the pikachu nerd wars about up-B.
     
  10. Charlesz

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    Good post. This can really help my sheik game recovery.
     
  11. AXE 09

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    Lol no problem everyone :) Just wanted to share information with everyone lol (thanks Vman).

    I edited the origional post a little bit with a few more specific details.
    D stick?
     
  12. V3ctorMan

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    ...Yeah, yeah, your pikachu still blows........<3 <3
     
  13. AXE 09

    AXE 09
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    Heh, not as badly as your video editing skills OHHHHHHHHHHHH BURN!!! XD
     
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  14. INSANE CARZY GUY

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    Hey axe why didn't you post about our great nerd wars of up-Bness
     
  15. V3ctorMan

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    HOW DARE YOU!!!........No Axe Effect II for you! GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
     
  16. RockCrock

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    I recall phanna telling me that Samus can change the direction of her Screw Attack up until the 3rd frame. This doesn't relate to her, but great discovery.
     
  17. Bones0

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    Is the up-b length at all related to jumping right before? Also, have you tested to see if the lengths are different horizontally or is it just vertical?
     
  18. AXE 09

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    I tried explaining it in the origional post, but I guess I'm not exactly that great at it lol.

    The length of your up-b has nothing to do with you being in the air or on the ground (except for sheik and Zelda because their startup animations move them before they actually vanish, but I'm referring to the length of their vanishes/teleports, not their startup animations). Your distanced covered will always be the same whether you jump first or not.

    And yes, you can shorten your up-b in any direction, including all horizontal, vertical, and any diagonal angle (and anything inbetween that). Only upwards recoveries were shown in the video because they are the easiest to do. But yes, you can shorten your up-b in any direction.


    EDIT:
    And thank you, RockCrock (and Phanna) for the Samus info. I'll go ahead and delete that from the origional post.
     
  19. TheLake

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    This info is booooss

    Axe is so **** with low tiers he has enough **** to spread to the rest of us

    <3 mega homo
     
  20. Bones0

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    Whoops, my post is misleading. What I was thinking about was whether or not tap jumping was what was making you go further (essentially a jc'd up-b), but obviously if you can shorten horizontal up-bs that is not the case. Thanks.
     
  21. AXE 09

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    Hahahaha thanks man :)

    <3 ultra homo
    Ohhhh I see. My bad, I understand now lol. You already answered your own question but I'll say it again anyways. Jump Canceling has nothing to do with this technique. You could essentially hold up (for like 10 seconds if you wanted to), then press B, and you could still travel the maximum distance if you were holding all the way up.

    This technique is different from just smashing or tilting, because you could technically slowly tilt all the way upwards, then press B, and you will still go the maximum distance (even though if you were to press A, you would perform an uptilt instead of an upsmash).

    The distance literally depends on the position of your control stick before your character teleports. If the control stick is pressed in a direction all the way, your character will travel the maximum distance in that direction. If your control stick is tilted somewhere between the neutral position and all the way left, then your character will teleport left, but it will be shortened depending on what extreme you tilted it.

    Again: this has nothing to do with Jump Canceling, starting from the ground, or starting while airborne.
     
  22. victra♥

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    crystal skies

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    ICG getting off

    as usual
     
  23. AlcyoNite

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    Subscribed to mark my place in amazing smash history

    ty axe and co.

    melee just keeps getting better

    the hopeless feeling of beeing on the wall after a shine spike shall haunt me no more!
     
  24. INSANE CARZY GUY

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    OMG you have no idea how wrong that is what you just said. WOW I would get banned.

    But Really I discover a better way of double up-B as pichu first(and sadly only).

    I have been doing a lot lately and i'm about to go try some ideas I have for retarded edge gaurd.
     
  25. victra♥

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    your pichu up-b tricks are actually pretty legit. I've been trying to incorporate them into my game, its hard though
     
  26. INSANE CARZY GUY

    INSANE CARZY GUY
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    You just just to believe and everything will work out uunless your fighting m2k's sheik. My best advice is just to laugh when he chain throws.
     
  27. AlcyoNite

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    did u watch axe vs m2k?

    he will just laugh right back
     
  28. INSANE CARZY GUY

    INSANE CARZY GUY
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    Banned (6 Points)

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    Work on your laugh I swear it will help with the pain
     
  29. TheCrimsonBlur

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    Wow. This is really useful, especially for Pikachu and Mewtwo. Lots of platform cancelling tricksies can be performed at different angles with this.

    Great find. <3
     
  30. ajp_anton

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    Up+B frame data I've collected:

    "Aim" means those are the frames where you can alter the direction of the up+B. If there are more than one such frame, the first frame where you make a full horizontal tilt is used. If there is no full horizontal tilt, the last tilt is used (one that actually counts as a tilt).

    "Turn" means those are the frames where you have the option to turn around. Can only be done once if there are more than one such frame.

    The up+B is done on frame 1.

    drmario:
    2-3: aim
    4: turn

    mario
    2-6: aim
    7: turn

    luigi
    9: turn

    peach
    2-5: aim
    6: turn

    yoshi
    18: aim

    cfalcon
    13: turn

    ganondorf
    13: turn

    falco
    42: aim

    fox
    42: aim

    IC
    12: turn

    kirby
    2-15: turn

    samus
    2-9: turn (air)
    2-11: turn (ground)

    zelda
    33: aim, short, turn

    sheik
    35: aim, short, turn

    pichu
    13: aim, short, turn
    29: aim, short (can't be same direction? didn't try this much)

    pikachu
    13: aim, short, turn
    26: aim, short (can't be same direction? didn't try this much)

    mewtwo
    7: aim, short, turn

    g&w
    2-7: turn

    marth
    2-5: aim
    6: turn

    roy
    2-9: aim
    10: turn
     
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  31. AXE 09

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    My goodness o.O How did you get that data?

    Ok so lemme make sure I understand this....

    Turn means that the character is able to turn around during their up-b (like G&W for example).

    Aim means that the character is able to change their direction slightly (like Marth or Roy)

    I assume that Short means that they're able to shorten their up-b?


    As far as I know, Pikachu and Pichu can only go the same direction twice if they go upwards. I don't think they can do it in any other direction. But they cannot shorten the second zip if they go up twice, only turn around.

    Although, apprently Pichu can go other directions twice? I always assumed that since Pichu can go twice the angles that Pikachu can go, he's able to do 2 directions that are almost the same so it might look like he's going the same direction twice. But according to ICG I'm wrong. Is there any information to back this up?

    So with the 5 characters listed in the OP in this thread, it makes sense that they can both AIM and TURN (while characters like Fox and Falco can only Aim). And of course, they can Shorten too. I hope I understand your information correctly.
     
  32. ajp_anton

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    With Pichu you can make it look like it's twice the same direction, because they are so close.
    I tried playing around a little with the control stick, but wasn't able to get the same direction (up) twice.

    For those 5 chars, there is only one frame that matters. During that frame, a tilt in any direction makes you go in that direction, and how much you tilt gives you different lengths. If you tilt too little, it will be ignored, except if this *small* tilt is backwards, then you go up (tilt ignored) but turn around.
     
  33. AXE 09

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    About Pichu/Pikachu going up twice, I don't know EXACTLY how to do it, but I've figured about as much as I possibly can without AR. All the info I found is here:

    http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=273075

    If you have AR, and if it's not too much trouble, could you look into it a little more to find out exactly how it works?

    Ok so I think I understand. During the frames of which you input your horizontal direction, only your furthest tilt will be counted. I think I understand now. Thank you so much for all that info.
     
  34. ajp_anton

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    I have to sleep now, will look into the double up+B later...


    About that horizontal tilt I mentioned, where there are multiple aim frames...

    Take Mario as an example. His aim-frames are 2-6, so 5 frames total.
    The tilts can range from -100% to +100%, so you get a list of 5 numbers from -100 to 100. Let's call this list "x". The tilt/aim actually used by the up+B is determined by:

    if( max(abs(x)) == 100)
    {
    first maximum tilt (-100 or 100) is used
    }
    else
    {
    last non-zero tilt is used
    }
     
  35. joeplicate

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    i swear you can do something like this with fox!!!

    it would be so useful to know



    or people could just start using shine to turn around before they up b
    but that's no fun :mad:
     
  36. KAOSTAR

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    Its not hard to grab the ledge with fox from facing the wrong direction.

    Or do you mean make sure that you turn around so that you can fall and grab the ledge?
     
  37. AXE 09

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    Sadly this doesn't work with Fox or Falco.

    I do know that they can turn around by touching a wall or something though
     
  38. AlcyoNite

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    i KNOW that you did not just say that it is SAD for a SPACIE not to have a new game-changing technique...
     
  39. AXE 09

    AXE 09
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    What's REALLY sad is that SHEIK can do this, and I'm a Pikachu main lol
     
  40. AlcyoNite

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    lmao *recalls u vs m2k*

    im sorry
     

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