Requesting Feedback - A Potential Alternate Rule Set

[Deleted member]

this would make games funner (and gheyer) but also turn games into suicide spike fests, which I personally don't mind

 

[Kal]

Fact: with this ruleset, every match will end like this.

 

[Cactuar]

If I were to push this and actually make a Rule Set, I might be willing to make:

Hax's Rule: Battlefield is the only starter.

Not having it be affected by DSR is against what I want to promote, but this is more than meeting you halfway. Players would also be allowed to use gentlemen's rule to play on any stage first round, but if an agreement can not be made on what stage will be used first round, it will always be battlefield.

 

[da K.I.D.]

what about the random falling through the battlefield ledges?

Ban Battlefield 4 random?

 

[Cactuar]

That "stage hazard" is not random at all.


@s2j: That is something that can really only happen on stages where the bottom blast zone is a significant portion of the stage. Smart stage selection can really negate suicide kill intent. All part of knowing the capabilities of your opponent and yourself, as well as what stages affect you how.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

The real solution is we should just play on hacked Melee already.

amirite guys

 

[Kal]

If it were a viable option, I would totally be down.

 

[Cactuar]

Same. If we could standardize distribution and creation of stages, I would be down for having an MBR backed hacked version with 20 neutral stages.

 

[Warhawk]

what about the random falling through the battlefield ledges?

Ban Battlefield 4 random?

Not random at all... It feels random if you don't play enough, but after awhile you can usually tell when you are going to get "battlefielded", its all an appearance thing.

Also having 20 hacked competitively viable stages would be awesome lol.

 

[Anth0ny]

Same. If we could standardize distribution and creation of stages, I would be down for having an MBR backed hacked version with 20 neutral stages.

k everyone homebrew you wii, lets get this movement started

Ultimate Melee 2.0: Arcade edition will be the new tournament standard.

 

[bossa nova ♪]

i like this a lot...


i think it should definitely be implemented in tournaments soon as a test to see what needs to be modified.


finally we can have the hype of 5..4..3..2..1..TIME without having to wait 8 minutes for stupid b****es to beat the **** out of the open air



soooooooo excited for new ideas... someone answered my prayers

 

[-ACE-]

@s2j: That is something that can really only happen on stages where the bottom blast zone is a significant portion of the stage. Smart stage selection can really negate suicide kill intent. All part of knowing the capabilities of your opponent and yourself, as well as what stages affect you how.

So it can happen (and would happen if this ruleset ever made it past being a radical proposal) on many stages? I see. It seems that you want to test players for a slightly different set of skills that aren't tested for (to the same amount) with the current ruleset and stage list. Do you actually think this would be better, or are you just looking for a change to keep things interesting?

 

[Rubyiris]

even if there's a trick for it, it's anything but easy and practical. name someone who has simultaneously played high level melee and calculated/adjusted to randall's positioning during his matches and i'll concede my argument. i have no idea where the focus for something like that would come from in a game where you're constantly forced to make 1/6th of a second reactions and even better reads. i understand that randall follows a pattern that a TAS could theoretically calculate/adjust to while still playing perfect melee, but it's the sort of thing people would rather just let luck determine because learning to track it is way too difficult.

even if if were possible to track and adjust to randall, could you imagine FoD platforms or Dreamland wind? randall would be lightwork compared to them. FoD's platforms can literally make a difference depending on the pixel they're elevated. as in, the elevation that changes 60 times per second. do you really expect a person to learn to turn this into a skill-based feature by calculating down to sixtieths of a second? similarly, Dreamland wind can push you off of a platform or not depending on the exact frame it comes out/exactly how many pixels it pushes you. calculating these two are impossible.

or how about pokemon stadium's changing terrain, which is outright random and can determine matches? the rock and fire stages not only give fox an infinite, but are worse than some non-neutral stages..

Jetfour, gamerguitarist7, tee ay eye, axe, wobbles.

Welcome to AZ smash. We got gimmics.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

yeah but ruby, we've never seen it effectively used by them in national tournament level, it happening in AZ isn't quite the same.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Thats not what hax asked. all he said was if anyone would name really good players who account for randall along with everything else when playing matches, he would drop his point.

All in all paying attention to the timer to watch for the cloud really isnt much at all to ask of someone when you consider all of the other variables that go into playing melee. Hax is just being a baby.

 

[Rubyiris]

yeah but ruby, we've never seen it effectively used by them in national tournament level, it happening in AZ isn't quite the same.

Were poor, ergo we don't get the opportunity to.

 

[-ACE-]

Randall spends 5 seconds to the left/right of the stage and 5 seconds behind the stage. What is this about a 60 second cycle?

 

[Kal]

He's on a sixty second cycle, i.e., every sixty seconds his path repeats.

 

[Rubyiris]

This reminds me that I need to focus on Randal more often. I'm probably one of the only two high-level AZ players who doesn't have him memorized.

Okami wobbles axe and jetfour have nearly every nuance of nearly every legal, and previously legal stage memorized

 

[-ACE-]

He's on a sixty second cycle, i.e., every sixty seconds his path repeats.

Doesn't it also repeat every 30 seconds?

 

[Kal]

Technically, no, since it moves to the opposite side.

 

[Wobbles]

20 seconds for each cycle.

Timer: --:XY:--

XY are the seconds.

If X is odd, and Y is at 5 seconds or less, Randall will be on the right side. If Y is higher, Randall will be inside the level.

If X is even and Y is at 5 seconds or less, Randall will be on the left side. If Y is higher than 5 seconds, Randall is inside the level, moving left.

So it's a simple twenty second cycle. And I don't account for it every time I make a decision, I just make it a habit to check the clock every time somebody gets sent off the level to see if the cloud is going to be a factor. If it is, I try and get ready. If I *am* in a position where I can decide which direction to send someone, I send them in a direction where Randall won't be involved. And for recovery, I will use blind air-dodges to Randall's position because it typically gives me extra opportunities to make it back.

It's like checking a car mirror while you're driving. Make it a habit and you won't even become aware you're doing it, but you WILL know.

Also **** battlefield being the first level every set. Do you know how borderline impossible it is for some characters to deal with top platform camping on that level? There's a reason in most of my sets it's my first strike and typically my ban, ICs can't deal with that nonsense.

Oh right, I don't play a popular character. Nevermind, please continue.

 

[Teczer0]

Make every set start on fod then

=3

 

[Kal]

Wobbles, use your mod powers to strike down the dissenters.

 

[-ACE-]

Agreed wobbles, that was informative. I dunno why I said 30 secs, he just travels in a circle spending 5 seconds to the left, right, and behind the state. Def 20 lol

 

[HT F8]

Would doubles follow these rules as well? I'm very curious how 2stock teams would feel.

 

[Kal]

Man, I was totally sure it was a sixty second cycle. Oh well.

 

[Gea]

Man, I was totally sure it was a sixty second cycle. Oh well.

Look at it this way. There are four positions that it cycles through once every five seconds. As in Middle top, left, middle bottom, right.

 

[Kal]

Yeah, I got it. I just thought it was sixty seconds. Can I have a do-over for today? My brain hurts.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Timer: --:XY:--

XY are the seconds.

If X is odd, and Y is at 5 seconds or less, Randall will be on the right side. If Y is higher, Randall will be inside the level.

If X is odd and Y is at 5 seconds or less, Randall will be on the left side. If Y is higher than 5 seconds, Randall is inside the level, moving left.

So if X is odd and Y is less than five, Randall is on both the right and the left? I'm confused now.

 

[Wobbles]

I am dumb. It's been edited.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Thanks. I'm going to have to commit that pattern to memory, it seems like it'll be extremely useful.

 

[Hax]

lmao at bossa nova's sig

lmao at halving the stocks in a melee match and having most matches come down to a single pivotal moment (has anyone ever heard of variance?) being considered the holy grail of ideas while eliminating luck-based stages such as FoD and PS (i won't say yoshi's because apparently it's easy and normal to constantly calculate Randall's positioning during a match) is immediately shot down

i could argue endlessly about how yoshi's buffs fox and falco, further distancing them from the rest of the cast. or about how certain characters NEED to win the first game of a set vs certain top tiers or else they're faced with 2 absolutely terrible counterpick stages that can't both be banned. or about how luck is counterintuitive to competition. or about how FoD and PS aren't even remotely neutral. or about how battlefield nerfs fox and falco (which is what should be done to them) by making their recovery worse. or about how 0 to death chaingrabs deteriorate the game...

and not a single person would agree because hax is the bad guy

 

[bossa nova ♪]

and not a single person would agree because hax is the bad guy

unless we're talkin about eggm


/offtopic

 

[Mew2King]

Doesn't this sort of making winning the first match a LOT more important since counterpicks would be so strong now?\

not with
-best of 7 sets and
-stage bans

it simply makes melee a lot more fun for a change. People should NOT be opposed to AT LEAST TRYING this out

 

[Freestylin]

im very comfortable as it is now, dont feel like it needs changes, but respect this opinion

 

[Rubyiris]

M2k stamp of approval.

 

[Gea]

lmao at bossa nova's sig

lmao at halving the stocks in a melee match and having most matches come down to a single pivotal moment (has anyone ever heard of variance?) being considered the holy grail of ideas while eliminating luck-based stages such as FoD and PS (i won't say yoshi's because apparently it's easy and normal to constantly calculate Randall's positioning during a match) is immediately shot down

i could argue endlessly about how yoshi's buffs fox and falco, further distancing them from the rest of the cast. or about how certain characters NEED to win the first game of a set vs certain top tiers or else they're faced with 2 absolutely terrible counterpick stages that can't both be banned. or about how luck is counterintuitive to competition. or about how FoD and PS aren't even remotely neutral. or about how battlefield nerfs fox and falco (which is what should be done to them) by making their recovery worse. or about how 0 to death chaingrabs deteriorate the game...

and not a single person would agree because hax is the bad guy

Rulesets shouldn't be made to attempt to balance the roster. The idea of luck is another argument altogether, but come on now.

 

[Kal]

Counter-intuitive to competition, guys.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Excuse me if I date myself here.


Hey guys, remember back in the days where 'neutral stages' meant that each stage that didnt interfere was thought of to neutral in most matchups and first stage was simply chosen at random between all of the neutral stages?

Those were the good ole days.

And Hax, I for one, dont think you are the bad guy, I just think youre being an immature child about the situation. Because god forbid the fastest and most technical falcon player to touch a gamecube controller has to LOOK AT A CLOCK every now and then. Thats just unthinkable. Next thing you know we're gonna ask you to walk and chew gum at the same time...

Also, if youre making your decisions on stages based on whether it buffs good characters or nerfs bad ones, you need to go back to step one and re-evaluate the hell out of the thought process you are using right now.