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Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes

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This is the first Partner Showcase to have a game that I actually want to play now, so that's a plus. It was definitely better than the previous 2, but that really has to do with them showcasing Monster Hunter than anything else. Honestly, these Partner Showcases needed Monster Hunter way more than Monster Hunter needed it cause that's a franchise with a huge audience that appeals to pretty much a whole lot of demographics. Monster Hunter Rise should be a great game, so I'm getting it whenever I see it in stock at the Walmart I go to.

I don't really have much thoughts on the other games that were shown off, but seeing Fitness Boxing 2 is making me ironically root for Fitness Boxer in Smash.

Noms:
Lu Bu x5
 

warpenguin55

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I came expecting nothing. I was suprised I found something that look good. 3 something. Ori looks like Hollow Knight. Also a little interested in Rune Factory 5 and the 2nd Monster Hunter game they showed(I forget the name now). IDK if I'll by any of the 3 but I'm interested in seeing more

Noms: Alex Mason x5
 
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Sari

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Day over.

Rate Concept: A non-white/Asian human character.

Predict Tidus from Final Fantasy.

Megadoomer Megadoomer

-----

No music post for today since this concept is super broad. I will however address a few things:
  • I noticed a few people were getting this concept confused while doing predictions the other day. So just to clarify: we are rating the chances of a non-white/Asian human character. Non-human characters like Crash and Geno won't count.
    • If it's a weird case where they look like a human but have some sort of drawback (like they are partly a cyborg or genie), then yes they would count and can still be a part of the rating as long as they are not white/Asian.
  • Since race is still a heated subject even in the year 2020, please try to keep things civil. You want to give this concept a 0% in want because you're hoping for other characters instead? That's fine. But just use common sense when writing out your reasoning so you don't offend anyone. If there is one day to not have any arguments, it should be this one.
 

Jomosensual

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TCT~Phantom TCT~Phantom how many sentences did we decide on for bonus noms again?

For this im going to abstain. I dont really have a value to place on either score. With chance i don't think Nintendo really cares given what i know about Japanese culture(not saying they're more racist or anything, just care less about representation than the west). They've made it fairly clear with the roster as well.

For want, well, im a straight white dude. Representation isn't something that effects me personally since i see tons of people like me daily. Even setting that aside i don't care much. I just want fun and/or hype characters. If someone wants major representation in the game then sure, why not. I dont mind. I get its huge for some people. It's just not a factor in my enjoyment of things either way

Predictions
Tidus 3%

Noms:
Stretchers x10(or 5 if i didnt type enough)
 
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DanganZilla5

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A non white/Asian human character

Abstain. I want to make it crystal clear that I think this is a valid discussion to have. But I am just not comfortable or knowledgeable enough to talk about this topic and I don't want to offend anyone.

Prediction: Tidus - 5%

Noms: Arthur x5
 

TCT~Phantom

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Just as a heads up I will be watching this thread closer than usual today. We have been quite civil in general (notably on overrated and underated days as well as controversial characters) and I want to keep it that way.

Race is a very important topic to discuss in general, but it is more important to discuss it now. 2020 in particular has seen the largest civil rights movement in the US (where I assume most of you are from). COVID 19 as well has disproportionately affected POC. I will say that I was apprehensive to bringing this to head, since I worried it would lead to trolling or racists coming here, but I feel that we all are mature enough to do this right. Be warned though that any overtly racist posts will be called out and result in action.

In other news, I made a discord server. I was going to announce this yesterday, but personal circumstances got in the way. Figured we could do community nights, game nights, stuff like that.

@Jomosexual It is a paragraph. Generally 5-7 sentences is considered a paragraph, but I would lean towards 5 per score, though I would prefer more.

As for my scores

Abstain Chance

Yes, I hate to be that guy, but I have to abstain. The main reason is that this is such a broad concept that it is hard to pinpoint characters. For the fixed schedule, I chose basically every active support thread that I saw on here. We only had two characters I would feel comfortable considering calling People of Color: Shantae and Elma. I would say though that I am white, so I might not be the authority to say if someone is a person of color and if this is out of step feel free to correct me. I would say that I doubt the current climate had any effect on character though, given that the selection was finalized last year.

Abstain Want

In terms of want though, that is hard to say. I am totally on board with POC representation in Smash, at least in concept. For me though, the struggle comes from why I play smash. When I play smash, there are two things that I look for. First is moveset potential, second is character attachment. This is where I have issues rating this unfortunately. With such a broad concept, it is hard to outright say that I want any theoretical POC character. I think that having some sort of POC representation in Smash would be great. But with such a broad net it would be hard to say.

Nominating Concept: Coco as Crash's Echo x 10
 
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Cutie Gwen

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Diversity

Chance: 1% Despite being a wide ass net, BIPOC tend to be side characters meaning they'd likely miss the cut as that's an issue across the entire entertainment industry, be it video games, movies, tv shows and many more. And for the few who do seem like they'd have a chance certainly don't have it easy, hell, Barret from FF7's the only playable character in 7R to not have a plushie as just one example of how often BIPOC get shafted aside

Want: 100% Usually I'd abstain on concepts due to it being case by case but there is literally no downside to adding BIPOC as there's legitimately amazing characters to chose from, and as Smash's only non Japanese minority characters are Ganondorf being Middle Eastern coded, the Belmonts being Romani and Min Min being Chinese, Smash is quite lacking when compared to pretty much every other fighting game. You'll probably end up with some racists saying characters need more than their skin colour to stand out but when we have such fantastic characters with moves and playstyles to set them apart from other Smash characters, it's dishonest to begin with. Just some of the many possibilities include Sol Badguy, Claude von Riegan, Kat, Barret Wallace, Dudley, Rodin, Darli Dagger, K', Prince of Persia, Doc Louis, Shinobu, Leroy Smith and many, many more.

Nominations: Miriam x10
 

Perkilator

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Abstain. All I’m confortable to say is that this a totally valid discussion (just be sure to discuss it civilly) and I’d be totally okay with a PoC in Smash (I used to support Claude from Three Houses quite a bit back in November).

****ing Tidus: 45%

Noms:
Xion as Sora's Echo x3
Sakura Shinguji x2
 
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waddledeeonredyoshi

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A character that would shut Resetera up
Chance: 5%
For the record, I'm pretty much just rating African-American
type characters here. Natives and Latinos might also apply to this concept but I'm sorry to say that if you asked me to think of a significant Nintendo/gaming character belonging to those, I wouldn't be able to come up with an answer.

Now I can't read Nintendo's mind but I highly doubt they'd pick a black character just for the sake of having one. If that were the case, they had the perfect opportunity with an ARMS rep in the form of Twintelle, yet they didn't take it at the end of the day. I can thus conclude that race-representation isn't a concern to the Nintendo. Black characters won't get a free pass for being black. They'll have to rely on the things any other sort of character usually needs to get a spot on the roster. Popularity, relevancy, importance, possible dev bias, etc. I can name quite a few black characters in video games but I can't really name much that I feel have a realistic shot at this pass. I can't exactly recall a recent major Japanese release, relevant to Nintendo, that starrs a black person as the main character and I don't see characters like Marina, Barret, Mr Sandman or Other M Anthony as viable picks

Of the top of my head, the only characters I can think of that have a shot are Elma from Xenoblade Chronicles X and Urbosa from BotW, neither of whom are still all that likely. I can't imagine skin color being enough to convince Nintendo to choose Elma over Rex or Urbosa over some more popular champion.

Want: 25%
Most of my most wanted characters aren't even humanoid anyway so this really isn't a factor to me. The two characters I mentioned in particular I'd be totally okay with but if they were to lose out to the competition it wouldn't be a big deal since it that's not Nintendo making a statement. I'm all for BLM and I know many people would like a character like this happening for literal irl representation. To me tho, it would make little difference.

Tidus: 6.15%
Deltarune content x5
 

SharkLord

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I'll have to abstain on chances due to how widely-spread the umbrella is, though personally I'd rate them fairly low because generally the candidates that are considered likely and candidates that are outside the White and/or East Asian umbrellas (I'm not fully used to or comfortable with using the term "Person of Color") seem to be of a low amount. There's also the technicalities brought on by this widely-spread net; Are we grouping white ethnic groups like Hispanics and Middle Easterners with the rest of the "white" groups (And do we count MENA ethnic groups as white or their own thing)? Are we referring to all Asians, or only those from the East Asian region? Stuff like that.
I think the low amount of dark-skinned main characters in games is a side effect of Japan's population being predominantly Japanese, and their idea of a foreigner being white. As such, the majority of characters in Japanese media tend to have fair skin.
While this isn't something I'm actively rooting for, I'd be all for it as long as the character in question can do some cool *, and if they get added in the first place, more than likely they're gonna do some cool *. Therefor, my want score is 75%.
 

fogbadge

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hmm tircky

chances: well i dont think i could say even if i didnt abstain. diversity is just not of those things that seem to be on sakurais mind so really itd be down to a case by case basis. so the question isnt would they do it so much as who is the sort of character theyd have in smash. its something i can see happening but im not sure will happen. and if it does it wont be for diversity.

want: again its a case by case basis. there's plenty of characters who are non white/asian who id be happy to have in smash. but for me its always about the characters themselves. despite being white ive never felt represented by any white character in any media. i understand that plenty of people wish to be represented across all media and we should strive for that shouldnt we? again i never felt the need to be represented in games despite there not being a whole lot of scotland in video games so i probably dont know what im talking about.

i do wish theyd atop portraying autistics as stereotypes in games mind you

nominate chibi-robo x5
 

Sari

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Concept: A non-white/Asian human character

Chance: 15%
I think the only non-white/Asian human characters that have somewhat of a shot are Shantae and Sol Badguy. Both have a fair amount of things going for them but are still outclassed by a lot more likely characters. There’s also Elma but like I said not too long ago I think Rex is the next in line when it comes to Xenoblade characters.

I don't think Nintendo cares too much about race representation in Smash so they'll just choose characters based on how popular they are or if they can be promotional picks. In terms of fan demand, the only characters for this rating that I see get talked a lot are the three I mentioned earlier. The recent civil rights push wouldn't make Nintendo more likely to add a non-white/Asian character since the pass was decided on last year and I doubt they'd scrap/replace an entire character for that.

Want: 70%
So in terms of non-white/Asian human characters with realistic chances, there's really only one specific character that I'd be willing to give a high want score to which would be Shantae. Simply put, I love her games and she is among one of my most wanted characters in general. I'd also be alright with Elma and Sol Badguy, but I haven’t played Xenoblade X and I still have yet to really get into the Guilty Gear series. It’s nothing about race or anything, it’s just that most of my most wanted are either white/Asian (Rex, Heavy, Andy, etc.) or non-human (Crash, Quote) because a lot of games primarily feature them.

Now as for pipe dream characters I'd want then there's Birdie (Street Fighter), K' (King of Fighters), Twintelle (ARMS), Demoman (TF2), Rinkah (Fire Emblem), CJ (GTA), and Lee or Clementine (Telltale's TWD Game) who I'd all give +90% scores to. But those characters have a ton of hurdles so I'm not expecting them at all.

While I usually don’t want characters just to fulfill a specific quota, I do wish we had more non-white/Asian human characters. The closest thing we have to this concept right now are a few character alts and Ganondorf. I'm white so I can't really say if that's a good enough representation for this rating, but I feel like in game with over 80 characters we should at the very least get one more non-white/Asian character. Of course I would still prefer to get characters that I personally want but I'd be down for just about any additional representation.

Tidus chance prediction: 4.50%

Nominations:
Zelda (BotW Universe) x15
 
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SharkLord

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I'm interested in the exact details of Sol's ethnicity. I've seen the idea of him being Indian because he's based on Freddie Mercury tossed around but I'm not sure if we're ever had that directly confirmed. Was that ever officially stated, or is it a headcanon? I don't intend to be rude, I'd just like to know if that was ever officially confirmed.
He's darker than a fair bit of the cast, that's for sure, but that might just be his being a Gear fricking with his biology. At the very least, the wiki has an image of him as a human. He's at least somewhat darker than Aria, but he also had blue eyes back then, and I'm not sure if that's a trait that pops up beyond Caucasian ethnic groups. Apparently he gets his last name from Freddie's real last name, so at least there's that. Biracial Sol is an option too, I think.
Yeah, I dunno. Is there anyone who can clear that up for me?
 

BowserKing

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Non White/Asian Human

Chance: 85%. There are quite a bit of characters that have a chance to appear, like Shantae and multiple characters from Street Fighter and Punch Out for instance. It would be great if those characters get to be in Smash and I support them getting in.

Want: 100%. Shantae is my most wanted Indie Rep, and I hope she makes it in the fighter’s pass. I also support Elma getting in Smash as well. There are a lot of great characters to choose from and overall, I support those fighters and more representation in Smash.

Prediction: Tidus (5%)

Noms: 5 for Stage: Bowser’s Castle
 

GoodGrief741

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I'm going to abstain from rating this concept because I really don't know how to put a number on it. Smash is a Japanese product and Nintendo is a Japanese company, so as much as their games as popular worldwide, they're going to reflect Japanese culture and expectations in their design. As we all know, Japan isn't a very ethnically diverse country, nor is it, unfortunately, very receptive towards foreigners. Aside from that, the way they depict characters in animation has a historical origin in old Western animation (Disney, Fleischer, those guys). Therefore, most Japanese media represents characters, whether they are meant to be Japanese, white, or of no particular ethnicity, in the same manner (this is known as Mukokuseki, and I'm sure a quick internet search will explain the concept better than I can). That means that characters with different origins end up looking pretty similar, despite different origins (compare Japanese Ryu with American Snake and you'll see what I mean). Smash, and especially Ultimate, having a very unified artstyle for realistic human characters means that the differences are even less.

All this to say that, for a character to be identifiable as part of an ethnic minority, they've pretty much have to be part of one that (at least, stereotypically) has visual identifiers that Japanese design usually carries into its characters, such as skin color. Otherwise, you just run into generic Mukokuseki, and that creates ambiguity (for example, is Min Min canonically Chinese, or just Chinese-coded? She's a blonde with green eyes, so we have to rely on other factors to decide, like her association with noodles, her name, language, style of fighting, and inspirations - but even then, we don't even know if China exists within the ARMS canon).

From my experience, I've seen that Japan clearly denotes characters of Black, Middle Eastern, Indian, Native American, and Latin American ethnicity as such, though I might be forgetting about some other group. I guess we'd have to get a character from one of those groups to get what this concept entails. But the problem is, with those groups lacking representation in Japan, they lack representation in Japanese media, and therefore Japanese videogames. It's gotten better recently, and the influence of Western culture, which does feature characters from those ethnicities much more prominently, certainly has helped. But still, it's pretty rare to see characters of color in lead roles, and that's what a game like Smash is going to be looking for. I can think of the likes of Elma, Sol Badguy, and... well, not much else sadly. Until Japan starts featuring more leads of color, I don't expect things to change in that regard.

There's also the added caveat of the Western market, which has produced more games starring characters of various backgrounds and origins beyond the generic white. I can think of characters like Prince of Persia, Shantae, Carl Johnson, a big chunk of the cast of Mortal Kombat, like there's more to choose from (and that's without counting Asian characters of Western creation, like Faith Connors or Jin Sakai, who clearly don't follow the Mukokuseki style). But still, it could do a lot better, and admittedly these characters (aside from maybe Shantae) aren't the Western characters seen as the most likely - and Western characters by themselves aren't looking like a certainty either.

So, the bottom line is, I guess, that I don't see it happening, but maybe one of the few strong contenders I mentioned previously could get in. While a single character naturally isn't all that could or should be included, it would still be a huge step forward.

I don't think Nintendo or Sakurai are looking at selection from a representation perspective. I don't blame them for it either; as much as their products do hold weight worldwide, they're not going to be making them through the lens of a Western problem. And I certainly agree with the notion that the best choice to represent a franchise is its main character. But I still think that lack of representation, or simply there not being as much as there could be, is an important topic and one that should be discussed. And even, why not, demanded from the makers of the media we consume. I do wish that Smash, and Smash speculation, could give more attention to deepening franchise representation rather than sticking to one fighter per series, which would mean the likes of Chun-Li, Rodin, Twintelle getting more speculation, support, and possibly a (very deserved) inclusion. Aside from that, I think the problem lies outside of Smash's control and more in the industry at large. And so I'd really like it if more (Japanese and Western, but especially Western as they have no excuse) games could feature members of underrepresented groups in lead roles (and not just as options in a character creator, that's cool and all but we need more defined characters of several ethnicities as well).

That's just my two cents on the topic.

Noms: Jason and SOPHIA x5
****ing Tidus prediction: 7.93%
 

Cutie Gwen

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I'm interested in the exact details of Sol's ethnicity. I've seen the idea of him being Indian because he's based on Freddie Mercury tossed around but I'm not sure if we're ever had that directly confirmed. Was that ever officially stated, or is it a headcanon? I don't intend to be rude, I'd just like to know if that was ever officially confirmed.
He's darker than a fair bit of the cast, that's for sure, but that might just be his being a Gear fricking with his biology. At the very least, the wiki has an image of him as a human. He's at least somewhat darker than Aria, but he also had blue eyes back then, and I'm not sure if that's a trait that pops up beyond Caucasian ethnic groups. Apparently he gets his last name from Freddie's real last name, so at least there's that. Biracial Sol is an option too, I think.
Yeah, I dunno. Is there anyone who can clear that up for me?
There's nothing canon about his ethnicity but yeah, his darker skin tone compared to most of the cast and the heavy influence from Freddie Mercury from name, fighting style and official homoerotic artwork suggest he's at least partially Indian
 

SharkLord

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All this to say that, for a character to be identifiable as part of an ethnic minority, they've pretty much have to be part of one that (at least, stereotypically) has visual identifiers that Japanese design usually carries into its characters, such as skin color. Otherwise, you just run into generic Mukokuseki, and that creates ambiguity (for example, is Min Min canonically Chinese, or just Chinese-coded? She's a blonde with green eyes, so we have to rely on other factors to decide, like her association with noodles, her name, language, style of fighting, and inspirations - but even then, we don't even know if China exists within the ARMS canon).
If it helps, Min Min's hair is made of noodles, just like her ARMS. If her eyebrows are anything to go by, apparently her hair used to be green.
There's nothing canon about his ethnicity but yeah, his darker skin tone compared to most of the cast and the heavy influence from Freddie Mercury from name, fighting style and official homoerotic artwork suggest he's at least partially Indian
I...
...
...I'm not going to ask any questions.
 
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GoodGrief741

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Klonoa x235
Moogle x215
[Rerate] Prince of All Cosmos x190
[Rerate] Monster Hunter x190
Concept: Content from currently unreleased game (not Spirit Events) (as of May 17th 2020) x175
Concept: Deltarune content x166
Echo: Xion (Sora) x165

200 - 151

Sakura Shinguji x160
Alex Mason x160

150 - 101

[Rerate] Frisk x150
The Stretchers x145
Billy Hatcher x145
Lu Bu (Dynasty Warriors) x142
Zelda (BotW universe) x135
Concept: Pokémon Mystery Dungeon content x131
Amiya (Arknights) x125
D.Va x115
Red (Angry Birds) x115

100 - 51

Jason Frudnick & SOPHIA x85
Mii Costume: Alex Kidd x83
Concept: Darksiders rep x80
Sackboy x80
Riptor x80
Hades (Kid Icarus) x80
Neptune (Hyperdimension Neptunia) x80
Fulgore x79
Concept: Second F-Zero rep x79
Concept: More ATs as one new item x75
Mii Costume: Jill Stingray x74
Boss: Ender Dragon x73
[Rerate] Concept: Boss Rush x70
Concept: A Microsoft rep that isn't Steve or Master Chief x70
Concept: Rocket League rep x65
Giygas x60
Zero (Mega Man) x60
Stage: Bowser's Castle x56
Concept: SNES-era Final Fantasy rep x55
Dwight Fairfield (Dead by Daylight) x55
Concept: Fortnite character x55
Gooigi x55
Vi (Bug Fables) x55
Echo (Olimar) x51

50 - 25

Echo: Zeraora (Lucario) x50
[Rerate] Jin Kazama x50
Magolor x50
John Marston x50
Jin Sakai x50
[Rerate] Monokuma x50
Ghirahim x50
Boss: Rayquaza x50
Arthur (Ghosts 'n Goblins) x45
Concept: A Bravely Default character x40

Under 25

[Rerate] Chibi-Robo x15
Cynthia (Pokémon) x5
Yarn Yoshi x5

Concept: Deltarune content takes sixth place from Echo: Xion.
 

TCT~Phantom

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On an off topic note, I was thinking for the first Community game we should do a game of Among Us or a Jackbox night. Figure that doing a community night would be fun. Join the discord for more info.

Cutie Gwen Cutie Gwen Sol being counted as a POC surprises me but I am not an authority on that. The Freddie Mercury stuff is a surprise to be sure, but a welcome one. And yes, Guilty Gear can be pretty homoerotic at some points. But not nearly as much as Blazblue.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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On an off topic note, I was thinking for the first Community game we should do a game of Among Us or a Jackbox night. Figure that doing a community night would be fun. Join the discord for more info.

Cutie Gwen Cutie Gwen Sol being counted as a POC surprises me but I am not an authority on that. The Freddie Mercury stuff is a surprise to be sure, but a welcome one. And yes, Guilty Gear can be pretty homoerotic at some points. But not nearly as much as Blazblue.
Yeah I only realized that when discussing how ArcSys typically changes character's skin colours in palette swaps with friends and realizing Sol had the darkest skin out of all officially confirmed Strive characters at the time, Ramlethal and Nagoryuki weren't officially revealed yet then.

And as for homoeroticism, remember, Freddie Mercury's a raving bisexual and when both Sol Badguy and Frederick Bulsara are names based on the legend himself and the fighting style being surprisingly similar to how Mercury ****ed around with a mic stand, it's painfully obvious that he was a major influence on Sol
 

SharkLord

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Yeah I only realized that when discussing how ArcSys typically changes character's skin colours in palette swaps with friends and realizing Sol had the darkest skin out of all officially confirmed Strive characters at the time, Ramlethal and Nagoryuki weren't officially revealed yet then.

And as for homoeroticism, remember, Freddie Mercury's a raving bisexual and when both Sol Badguy and Frederick Bulsara are names based on the legend himself and the fighting style being surprisingly similar to how Mercury ****ed around with a mic stand, it's painfully obvious that he was a major influence on Sol
Actually, Potemkin's pretty dark-skinned in Xrd, though you'd only really see it if you do Faust's Overdrives or Instant Kill (For a certain definition of "kill," seeing as he just gives you a facelift).
 

Cutie Gwen

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Actually, Potemkin's pretty dark-skinned in Xrd, though you'd only really see it if you do Faust's Overdrives or Instant Kill (For a certain definition of "kill," seeing as he just gives you a facelift).
Nah Potemkin will always be a robot to me no way no how did I forget Pot exists
I didn't say anything new or that others hadn't said before, but with topics as delicate as this one I think it's better to write a lot and be clear rather than risk any misunderstandings.
I think he's joking about how you said quite a bit more what two cents would implu
 

warpenguin55

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Chance: Abstain
There are so many characters that fit the bill. I don't know how to do a chance score for this.

Want: Abstain again

I'm really game play focused when it comes to video games. How the character looks tends to not matter as much to me unless it causes game play issues. I do want to say(and this might be controversial) that I really don't think a character should be added to a game just because of they're of a certain race or sexuality. I really don't like the idea of diversity quotas for video game characters. A character shouldn't be summed up by them being black, white, gay, straight, transgender, etc.




If you feel a personal connection to that character because they're the same skin tone as you and that makes you love playing them, by all means, play the character and have fun. Play whatever character you like, support whatever character you like for whatever reason you want. I'll admit I don't understand it, it's very rare for me to be able to feel a personal connection with characters in games or shows. Maybe someone else can't understand why I would choose to play characters without feeling that connection with them. Maybe the fact that I care most about how that character plays is a completely alien concept for someone else. In the end, it doesn't matter. Just play whatever games and characters you like, and as long as you're not trying to ruin the game for other people, it makes no difference how you do that.




On to some cool POC characters in video games
First ones that come to mind for me are Lucian and Senna from LoL. They're a married couple that hunts demons, ghosts, and other undead creatures. Both of them are pretty popular champions(Lucian isn't as popular as he once was though.) I don't think either one would work in Smash too well due to them being Marksmen champions and those kinds of champions probably don't translate super well into a game like Smash.

I like Rodin from Bayonetta too. He's got this badass aura to him.

Back when I used to play a ton of Overwatch, 2 of my favorite characters were POC. Sombra and Lucio were 2 of my go-to picks. I also tried playing Doomfist, but I really sucked at him.

I saw someone else mention Lee and Clemintine from Telltale's Walking Dead, both of which are good characters.

There are definitely others, but I've been working on this post for a while now and I think I have a decent amount here.

Noms: Rocket League content x5
 
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Lyncario

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 3, 2019
Messages
926
Location
Hell
Before I start, I would like to say some scientific facts: our race is the human race, not "white", "black", "asian", or any of that crap. We're all humans, and so we should all treat each others as such. The fact that we have difference in term of skin colors, accents, looks, or anything else is very normal because our genes/dna makes so that there is so many billions of possibility of how we can turn out (and that's underselling it by a lot) which makes so that everyone born is most likely unique. On top of that, our differences, or as some say "abnoormalities", are what makes us. Everynoe is a human being at ther core, yet we're all different in our own way. If you discriminate against someone because of something as meaningless as skin color, or as is it called by most, "race", then you are trash as an human being, and same goes for hating someone based on anything else like gender or sexuality discriminating someone for being different when all of us are different from everyone else in many ways is not only one of the worst hypocrisy possible but also one of the worst thing you can do that isn't murder or torture. Our true value as human beings comes from both who we really are on the inside and what we can do, and denying either because of differences you cannot acept makes you trash. Racism is trash, homophobism is trash, misoginy is trash, aceptance of others is good. Now that my pep talk is done...

Non white/asian character
Chances
Sol Badguy: 20%
First of all, yes, I am doing a thing for just Sol, because he's honestly much more likely than any other possibility in that array of characters, by far. So, what does Sol have going in his favor? He's the poster boy of Guilty Gear, the series ArcSystem is most known for, and who was on Nintendo multiple times. On top of that, ArcSys is one of the biggest Japanese developers who still has to get a playable character in Smash, even if they're not on the level of Koei Tecmo, Level-5, or Falcom in term of being both influencial and loyal to Nintendo, however, ArcSys did get a Kunio-kun spirit events as additionnal content in Ultimate, which probably doesn't mean much, but does show that Nintendo is willing to let ArcSystem participate in Smash. In other words, there's no guarantee of anything execpt that there is a possibility. Also while ArcSystem did say that they don't want to do crossovers with Guilty Gear until the story is finished, t's not like what happens in Smash is canon besides small references in KIU and Bayonneta 2. Also the statement was more about crossovers in Guilty Gear rather than crossovers out of Guilty Gear, considernig how since then Code Shifter became a thing.
Others: 0.1%
And for the others, I just don't see them hapening. Sol was singled out due to his circumstances, but no other characters that fit the concept have most of what Sol has for being in Smash, the closest being that Shantae has been very present on Nintendo's systems, but otherwise, eh, especialy since there's almost no non white/asian protagonist or important enough characters from Japanese games besides him and Daisy (Sarasaland is based on Egypt). So yeah, I just don't see any of them hapening other than Sol, and it's not about ethnicity at all, just other stuff since Nintendo and Sakurai just most likely don't care about that, no matter if it's for Sol, Shantae, or CJ. And why wouldn't it be? After all, Nintendo is not doing any political stuff, and so they don't single out execptions like this, and rather treat everyone the same, expecting the same norms. Otherwise, I guess that CJ has the advantag of being by far the biggest character, but GTA4 is not the lattest GTA anymore, and it's very doubtfll that Nintendo would want a GTA character in Smash in the first place.

Want: Complete neutrality.
I'm just neutral on that point, because this concept doesn't really matter to me. Sure, it would be nice for the people of said unrepresented ethnicity to have a character representing in the biggest fighting game of all time, and I would be happy for them, but ethnicity just doesn't matter for me, though it's probably because I'm a straight white guy meaning that I don't get the need for representation others want in various medias, since straight white males are pretty much represented everywhere, and a character with a French nationality is very common in fiction. Though if we're speaking more abot individual characters, I'm mostly neutral on Shantae, CJ would be very funny not only because of the memes but he wuold also very likely be very fun to play, I would have liked it so much if Claude made it over Byleth since he is my favorite House Leader and one of my favorite FE character, I would absolutely love to have Sol in Smash as he would be sick to play as beyond belief while also bringing amazing bangers alongside him, Doomfist being in Smash would be very funny, and I have no opinions for other characters that fit this criteria, or at least none that I can think of.

Predictions: Tidus: 1.02%

Nominations: Xion as Sora echo x10 (did I get the extra nominations thing right?)
 
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DrifloonEmpire

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 2, 2019
Messages
2,230
Non-White/Asian Human Character


Want: N/A


OH BOY, HERE WE GO
Gonna do the want score first to get it out of the way.

It's extremely difficult to give a score to something like this. Score it too high and you just sound silly. Score too low and you get accused of things. Personally, I wouldn't want a character added in solely BECAUSE they're black (I don't care at all about gender/race representation in a game like this) or for the sake of a political movement. But at the same time I wouldn't want a character to be EXCLUDED because they're black either, that would be horrible reasoning to leave a character out. When it comes to characters, there's picks that quickly come to mind like Shantae (a character no doubt MANY people will flock to for their rating), but I personally wouldn't want her since she's competition for Quote, one of my most wanted (though I wouldn't be upset if she got in, I would be disappointed if an indie I have no experience with got priority over a historical indie I adore). So my reasons for not wanting her are completely unrelated to her race. As for the opposite, I have plenty of Non-White/Asian characters I'd love to see but they're unlikely for one reason or another, such as Kiawe (Sun and Moon has long passed, and Pokemon reps focus on the Pokemon themselves), Preston Garvey (Fallout's out due to Vault Boy Costume, plus my preference goes to an Elder Scrolls rep), or a Civilization series leader like Gandhi or Askia (based upon and designed to resemble real, if historical, people). I want to see them because I like the characters and they have great merits, regardless of their race! Then there's other candidates like, say Doc Louis. I think he's more than earned a spot in Smash and I'd be perfectly fine with his inclusion, but at the same time I don't care enough about Punch-Out to actively campaign for the inclusion of a second rep. Same goes for a character like Rodin. He'd be a cool addition (in fact I think he'd be much more interesting than a Jeanne echo) but I don't care enough about Bayonetta to rally for a second rep, and for assist trophy promotions I'd much rather see Waluigi.

All of that together makes it extremely difficult to give a rating to this concept, and hopefully people don't slam me over this.


And now for something special for this concept's chance score!

Before we begin, as an overall note I will mention that Japan has an almost nonexistent black population and is overall a very homogeneous country population-wise, so racial diversity isn't nearly as common as it is in Western games, and thus there aren't a lot of black characters in Japanese media outside of Pokemon (Basquach's Miyuki Ayukawa, despite having a Japanese name, is the only non-Pokemon/Punch Out/Bayonetta black character from Japanese media that I can name off of the top of my head). As a result, this automatically lowers the overall chances since there's a much smaller pool of characters to choose from. Japan loves its' dark-skinned Asians, but they're still Asians (and most of them more than likely aren't Indian) so they don't count.

Now, as for the chance score, we're going to go through many franchises, all of the ones already in Smash and many that have the potential to be, and see which applicable characters (any Non-White/Asians) they have and their chances of getting in, along with the overall score at the end. Let's do this!



Franchises already in Smash:

Mario:
Very few human characters, most of which are already in Smash. New Donk City has some black citizens as NPCs but none of them are named and I don't think they'd be chosen over someone like Pauline herself. Also all non-DK Marioverse characters in this. Wario Land/WarioWare both have more humans but none of them fit the bill.

Donkey Kong: Donkey Kong's games have no humans, so no candidates here. Banjo-Kazooie has Humba Wumba (who's more than likely Native American), but the chances of us getting a second Banjo rep are slim to none.

Legend of Zelda: Zelda has a decent amount of dark-skinned characters due to the Gerudo's existence. Nabooru is a notable choice, and we already have her superior, Ganondorf himself, already in the game. She's certainly possible but I don't see a ton of fan demand for her. There's also Urbosa, who has recency points due to being from Breath of the Wild, but all of the champions are equals so I don't think she'd get in by herself. Overall a positive but still coin toss chance!

Sonic the Hedgehog: In a way, Knuckles (dreadlocks, Adventure-era Knuckles has hip hop/rap as his theme music and classic Knuckles is heavily associated with Michael Jackson's style), but he isn't a human so he doesn't count towards the concept. Mazuri from Sonic Unleashed has black NPCs but someone like them getting in over Eggman or Tails just isn't happening.

Kirby: Very few humans, so there aren't any suitable candidates (unless I'm forgetting someone).

Star Fox: No human characters, so there are no suitable candidates.

Pokemon: Quite a large amount of candidates actually! Lenora, Grant, Kiawe, Olivia, there are plenty to choose from! Their problem, though, is that their respective generations have passed and unless it's a Gen 1 veteran there's usually no going back to previous generations when looking for Smash reps. For Gen 8 there's Raihan and Nessa, both overcoming this hurdle. But they still have to overcome the second hurdle which is the fact that Pokemon reps typically focus on the Pokemon themselves instead of the humans (though in Kiawe's case, if you wanted to base his team off his anime team he already has a Charizard, so that'd certainly save development time).

Animal Crossing: Player characters are the only humans and there's already dark-skinned alts for Villager so this won't be possible.

Splatoon: Dark-skinned inklings are already among Inkling's alts. Marina's a good candidate, but with Splatoon costumes already appearing in the pass (and the more popular Callie and Marie were already passed up), I don't see Marina as a likely choice, even with Octo Expansion existing.

Metroid: Anthony Higgs, though he faces competition from more requested characters like Sylux along with Metroid's general lack of popularity in Japan. Plus we got two new Metroid characters this game so I don't see us getting more in the second fighter's pass.

Kid Icarus: Not much in the way of suitable candidates, and someone like Medusa or Hades would more than likely take priority.

Punch-Out: Now THIS is the series to look to for this concept! A very diverse set of characters and two black characters playing major roles, second to only Little Mac himself. While it'd be impossible to use Mike Tyson (and most Punch-Out content pulls from the remake anyway) we have both Doc Louis and Mr. Sandman, Little Mac's mentor and the circuit champion respectively. The latter especially, given that he has tons of moves to pull from, serves the role of a Punch-Out antagonist, and is one of the most well-known opponents outside of Glass Joe (granted he wasn't champion in the original, but he still has legacy). And aside from them, there's plenty of other fun options like Great Tiger, who could mix magic in with boxing for something fun and unique!

There's two main issues for each that prevent me from rating them higher, though. For Doc Louis, it's his role as a master spirit. Yes, spirits no longer deconfirm, but Doc Louis' plays a very special role and even runs a facility, so I don't know if they'd want to mess with that. Sandman may have to contend with Super Macho Man if they want to represent Super Punch Out instead, and Super Macho Man was the champion in that game instead (and he has a legend spirit while Sandman only has an ace). The second is Punch-Out's general lack of popularity in Japan (some fans there even complained about Little Mac) so I don't think they'll be grabbing a second rep this game, especially as DLC.

Pikmin: No suitable candidates, the Hocotatians and Koppaites are human-like but none of them have dark skin.

F-Zero: Baba, Kate Alen, and Michael Chain are all good candidates, but none of them have spirits, so the Smash team more than likely doesn't see them as a priority. Furthermore, F-Zero is a dormant franchise, and if it did get a second rep, someone like Samurai Goroh (who's been in before as an assist trophy) or Black Shadow or Blood Falcon would take priority.

Earthbound: I've never played the games but I'm sure there's a decent amount of Black NPCs. But I don't see one of them getting priority over someone like Porky, Paula, Poo, or Jeff anyway. And Earthbound is a dormant franchise so it getting another rep at all is slim.

Retro Characters (Ice Climbers/Duck Hunt/Game and Watch/ROB): No suitable candidates. Game and Watch did have a Native American look in one of his poses but it was removed due to the negative implications of the reference.

Fire Emblem: Too many characters to really go through but I haven't seen much in the way of black characters, especially among those who'd even be likely. Plus a new rep would more than likely be a new protagonist to shill a new game anyway.

Xenoblade: Vandham has grey skin so it's difficult to tell for him, and Elma more than likely doesn't count . Any other potential candidates more than likely wouldn't make it in over someone like Rex or Melia anyway.

Wii Fit: No suitable candidates.

ARMS: Misango and Twintelle, though we JUST got an ARMS character DLC pack and in a future title they have characters like Spring Man and Ribbon Girl to contend with. I don't see Nintendo double-dipping on ARMS.

Metal Gear Solid: Has a fair amount of Black characters, though given the troubles regarding Konami and Metal Gear, along with there being bigger characters in the franchise (who WERE chosen for spirits) I don't see this happening any time soon.

Pac Man: No suitable candidates.

Mega Man: I don't know much about Mega Man subseries, but as far as I'm aware there aren't really any candidates to choose from. Block Man from Mega Man 11 has a black VA (I've met him actually!) but I don't think that counts.

Street Fighter: Another good franchise for candidates! We have characters like Balrog, Sagat, and Dhalsim who fit the bill perfectly. Though we already got Ken this game so it depends on whether or not Capcom wants to do more Street Fighter, and even then there's competition with Chun-Li (who's more iconic) and M. Bison (an extremely notable villain).

Castlevania: As far as I can tell, there aren't any major characters who fit the bill. Plus Castlevania probably won't get a DLC pack due to the amount of content it got on the base game, and next game any potential candidates have Alucard to worry about.

Bayonetta: Rodin immediately comes to mind, being a legend spirit and chosen as an assist trophy to further represent the series. Though he may have to wait until next game, since even if we get assist trophies I don't think the developers would choose him over Waluigi or Isaac. Though since Nintendo now has exclusivity over the franchise and Bayonetta 3 will more than likely be out by the time we get another Smash game, Rodin has a good chance there.


Final Fantasy: Barett Wallace and Sazh Katzroy come to mind, though they aren't requested and more than likely wouldn't be chosen over the main characters of their respective games (despite Cloud already being in, Barett has characters like Tifa and Sephiroth to contend with, and even those two are unlikely for the pass due to an inability to provide spirits). Still always a headache to get rights for and it was hard enough to get Cloud back, plus due to the lack of spirit art I don't see us getting another Final Fantasy character as DLC.

Dragon Quest: Mahabala Twins, who are Arabic, though one of them would be too risque for Smash (she's a dancer with a very revealing outfit, who'd more than likely get slammed with what happened to Mai), though Meena being a playable character in 4 definitely gives her a boost. Though considering Dragon Quest got a big DLC pack last pass, I don't think Square Enix and Nintendo would double dip.

Persona: Aside from Masao Inaba in his Revelations appearance, there aren't any suitable candidates, plus I doubt we're gonna get Persona double dipping.

Fatal Fury/King of Fighters: Heavy D! comes to mind, being part of the American Sports Team. Though with all of the content SNK's fighting games got in Terry's pack, along with competition with Iori and Kyo in a future Smash game, chances don't look huge for him.


Franchises that could get into Smash:

Franchises listed in red are deconfirmed for various reasons


Bandai Namco:

Tekken: Leroy Smith and Tiger Jackson come to mind, though Tekken's already deconfirmed with Heihachi's Mii costume, and Sakurai considered Heihachi himself to represent Tekken. Namco also uses Heihachi in all of their crossovers, and after him there's characters like Jin Kazama and more who are much more iconic, so competition is a huge issue.

Tales of: No real suitable candidates (though as a JRPG series with a lot of characters it's hard to go through everyone), but even then, competition with Lloyd and Yuri, along with the potential of Lloyd's mii costume coming back definitely make it difficult regardless.

Katamari Damacy: No suitable candidates, Lalala is tan and the only Dark-skinned cousin (who looks like she's intended to be black) is an unnamed cousin from the South-Korea exclusive Katamari Online, and Namco doesn't acknowledge any of that game's original characters.

Soul Calibur: Zasalamel, though he isn't a series staple like much of his competition, so despite Soul Calibur having an "ensemble cast" they'd more than likely choose Nightmare, being the face of the franchise.

Dark Souls: Chosen Undead can be customized to be black, though outside of a potential alt (Chosen Undead's face is covered anyway) there's no suitable candidates.

Taiko no Tatsujin: All of the human characters (the Wadas and Hana Takahashi) are Japanese.

Idolm@ster: Natalia, who's Brazilian. Unique but not a series icon like Haruka is, so her main issue is competition.


SEGA:

Super Monkey Ball:
The cast is entirely monkeys, so no suitable candidates here.

Jet Set Radio: DJ Professor K. though suffers from competition from characters like Beat, Gum, and Tab due to the latter three being playable characters.

Samba de Amigo: Linda, who kinda counts (she's a fairy) and is Hispanic, though I doubt she'd get in over Samba himself.

Puyo Puyo: No suitable candidates (feel free to correct me on this), though they more than likely wouldn't get in over Arle or Amitie anyway.

Yakuza: Mitsuo, who's half African-American. Though main character Kiryu isn't in the game so I don't see Mitsuo happening.

Streets of Rage: Adam Hunter, one of the game's playable characters. Though competition with Axel Stone is a problem, it's still even chances between them.


Capcom:

Devil May Cry:
J.D. Morrison, though with Dante himself not in yet I don't see this happening.

Resident Evil: Sheva Alomar, who's half black, though Jill Valentine, Leon Kennedy, and the Redfields are both more iconic and more significant to the franchise as a whole. Plus their franchise was deconfirmed via spirit event anyway.

Ace Attorney: Jeff Masters and Olivia Aldente, though with face of the franchise Phoenix Wright not yet in, along with other playable characters like Miles Edgeworth and Apollo Justice, things look impossible for them.


Square Enix:

Kingdom Hearts:
No suitable candidates outside of Disney. Plus they more than likely wouldn't get priority over Sora.

Tomb Raider: No suitable candidates, can't imagine them getting picked over Lara herself.

Bravely: No suitable candidates.

Gex: Most of Gex's characters are animals or cyborgs, no suitable candidates. Plus why would they get in over Gex himself?

Deus Ex: No suitable candidates, though Deus Ex itself isn't likely anyway.


Bethesda:

The Elder Scrolls:
Not counting Elves/Argonians/Khajiit, there's multiple Redguard (African/Moorish mix, Elder Scrolls equivalent to black) major characters, from Baurus and Owyn in Oblivion to Cyrus in TES Adventures: Redguard. There's also Nazeem if you wanna be funny and Isran in Skyrim's Dawnguard questline. However, despite Cyrus being a protagonist, I doubt we'd see him over the others over someone like the Nerevarine (Morrowind), Hero of Kvatch (Oblivion), or The Last Dragonborn (Skyrim), especially the latter. One of the playable characters, though would more than likely have a Redguard alt if they decide to make the alts different races!

Fallout: Being set in the United States, Fallout has plenty of black characters. The one that comes to mind first and foremost is Preston Garvey, a major character in Fallout 4 and one of the major figures in The Minutemen. The protagonist characters can also be customized to be black, and could potentially have that as alts. Deconfirmed by Vault Boy's Mii Costume.

Doom: No suitable candidates. Deconfirmed via interview.



Activision-Blizzard:

Crash Bandicoot:
Papu Papu is clearly supposed to be kind of Papua New Guinea-esque, but despite being a notable boss I don't see him getting in over Crash himself.

Spyro the Dragon: Most of the characters are animals. No suitable candidates.

Overwatch: Lucio immidiately comes to mind, and given the game's ensamble cast he has a good shot of being chosen. He's been in the game since the beginning and has lots of unique attacks. Symmetra (Indian), Pharah (Egyptian), Sombra (Mexican) and Roadhog (Polynesian) also exist but aren't quite as popular. There's also Doomfist, who I often see presented as alternative choice to Tracer, and is very significant to the game's lore. It really depends on both Overwatch actually getting a rep (that Reddit AMA by Overwatch's director asking who they'd want to see in Smash could be a killing blow), and if so if they'd go with Tracer or view it the same way as ARMS.

Warcraft: Warcraft didn't add Black/Asian player options until recently, and given there are no specific NPCs that are Black/Asian (as far as I know) I don't see any suitable candidates. Plus Thrall exists.


2K Games:

Sid Meier's Civilization:
TONS of choices to choose from! Though Gandhi and Shaka Zulu immidiately come to mind. Gandhi, via a programming error in Civ 1, ended up coming to be essentially an unofficial mascot for the franchise and has appeared in every game. There's also Shaka Zulu, who's something of a second mascot for the series and has also appeared in every game. Plus with two main series games (Civ 1 SNES and Civ 6 Switch) along with a spinoff (Civ Rev DS) on Nintendo systems, it has more history under its' belt than most picks. The big hurdle for these two is whether or not being based on real people is a problem, given we have Dr. Kawashima among others already in the game.

Bioshock: Grace Holloway and Charles Milton Porter, though they'd have to contend with characters like Elizabeth and Booker Dewitt, who you actually play as (though if any of you have played Bioshock feel free to correct me).


Rockstar Games:

Grand Theft Auto:
Carl Johnson/CJ from San Andreas is one of the most notable playable characters (and arguably from the most famous GTA game), along with Franklin Clinton from V (got a surprisingly high score from Famitsu and another of the most successful GTA games), both make for fantastic candidates for this concept, and in the case of CJ his game has definitely stood the test of time. The main issue is Rockstar's relationship with Nintendo. They haven't been on the best terms, GTA has very little presence on Nintendo systems, and Nintendo hasn't gotten one of their games since Bully's Wii port.


Indies:

Cave Story:
Human characters are almost all Japanese, no suitable candidates. Jenka's ethnicity can't be pinpointed.

Shovel Knight: Doesn't have any suitable candidates, and most major characters are covered in armor. Would have to contend with Shovel Knight himself. Deconfirmed via Shovel Knight's assist trophy.

Undertale: Hard to tell for Frisk, only human in the game. Deconfirmed via Sans' Mii Costume.

Cuphead: King Dice is usually portrayed as black due to his theme song being performed by a black singer in a very Louis Armstrong style. Though he'd have to contend with Cuphead and Mugman themselves, the former being a Mii Costume. Deconfirmed via Cuphead Mii Costume and spirit event.


Shantae: A character no doubt people will choose. Min Min puts her back on the table and is the undisputed frontrunner for her series. Though even with Min Min putting her back on the table, Nintendo might pass her over again. She didn't really get big until Half Genie Hero in 2016.

Hollow Knight: Characters are bugs/whatever they are. No suitable candidates.

Hat in Time: Bow Kid, second in command though I don't see her getting in over Hat Kid herself.


And there we have it! with all of that taken into consideration, let's come up with a chance score...

Chance: 10% - As I mentioned earlier, there isn't a huge pool of characters to pull from. The concept's chances mainly suffer from either a lack of Non White/Asian humans in a given series, or a series that has them either being deconfirmed or having much bigger characters that would take priority (along with plenty of series with no humans at all, or series like Kirby that have just Adeleine). When it comes to getting a character, it pretty much hinges on either Shantae, a potentially third Street Fighter character, Pokemon miraculously adding another human playable character, or Punch Out potentially getting another rep. Come next game things open up a bit with possibilities like Rodin, Meena, another ARMS rep, etc. But as a whole, I just don't have much confidence in the concept. It hinges on a small amount of character choices and thus the liklihood is very small. It's a shame, but this is just the circumstances we have.

One more thing. I don't know if I can say this as I'm not on staff, but I implore you all, KEEP THINGS CIVIL

I've already seen enough leakage from the (honestly pretty scary) political threads this site has, from a bit of soapboxing in the Geno thread when discussing Nintendo as a corporation to literal Soviet imagry in someone's signature in the General Newcomer Speculation thread. This isn't a place for politics. Please keep the discussion focused on the CHARACTERS, not the politics that led to this concept's nomination. The characters and their chances are what is most important here. It was bad enough with what happened on Lara Croft's last rating day, let's not repeat that.

And so far everyone's been very civil, let's keep that up!


Nominations:
[Rerate] Prince of All Cosmos x10
 
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chocolatejr9

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 30, 2018
Messages
8,382
Abstain. I honestly don't feel comfortable rating this, due to how broad it it. That being said, I'm perfectly fine with more diversity.

Nominations: Billy Hatcher x5
 

BlueEyedGrimmbat

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 9, 2019
Messages
116
Abstaining. Race diversity in Smash isn't something I care about. Diversity for the sake of it is a no for me, but if we get good characters out of it then I'm all for it.

Noms: Amiya x5
 

GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
10,169
I haven't done these since August, holy ****. Thankfully the number of calcs to do was still pretty low because we had the Mario Direct, the last Partner Showcase, and day 500 in that period.

Tails
10.74% Chance - 70.00% Want
Last time we rated him he got 9.52% chance and 56.93% want. Since then, he got a Mii Costume, but lingering doubt over when the second Pass was defined balanced it out positively for him. And look at that want score! Since there haven't been any new Sonic games since then, I can only assume it's the movie that's driving support.
Winner of predictions was waddledeeonredyoshi waddledeeonredyoshi with 10.33%
Tails is now the third most wanted third party character.

Eggman
17.40% Chance - 76.28% Want
Winner of predictions was Jomosensual Jomosensual with a precise 18.00%
Eggman is now the third most wanted character overall, and the number one for third parties (sorry Phoenix!)

Andy
5.56% Chance - 67.81% Want
Last time we rated him he got 1.48% chance and 59.96% want. Clearly Spirits no longer being a death sentence has helped the young officer.
Winner of predictions was Lyncario Lyncario with 5.30%

Ayumi Tachibana
5.14% Chance - 69.55% Want
Winner of predictions were BowserKing BowserKing and NintenRob NintenRob with a precise 5.00%

Professor Layton
33.68% Chance - 68.44% Want
First time we rated him he got 32.96% chance and 67.19% want. Last time we rated him he got 32.56% chance and 55.36% want. Nothing's changed for Layton throughout DLC speculation aside from ports and the anime, no new games and no leaks, so it's logical that the chance score stays the same. Dunno what happened for the want to dip in that second rating, but it's since surged back up to its original heights.
Winner of predictions was DanganZilla5 DanganZilla5 with a precise 35.00%

Steve
33.19% Chance - 58.44% Want
We rerated Steve pretty recently so I'll just list all its scores
First rating: 55.69% chance - 23.89% want
Second rating: 3.04% chance - 38.17% want
Third rating: 33.94% chance - 41.17% want
Fourth rating: 44.40% chance - 51.86% want
Winner of predictions was NintenRob NintenRob with a precise 33.00%

Rex
56.96% Chance - 59.00% Want
Like Steve, Rex had a rating just before the fixed schedule, so I'll skip the write-up
First rating: 5.95% chance - 38.08% want
Second rating: 17.52% chance - 50.95% want
Third rating: 56.35% chance - 63.54% want
Winners of predictions were DanganZilla5 DanganZilla5 and Blankiturayman Blankiturayman with a precise 55.00%
Rex gets to keep his crown as the single most likely character.

Waluigi
22.68% Chance - 54.23% Want
First time we rated him he got 14.81% chance and 69.17% want. This was during a hypothetical "imagine Assist Trophies don't matter" day, but still, it's notable that his chance has gone up since. Last time we rated him he got 19.81% chance and 60.75% want. This was during the furor of the ARMS waiting game, with many expecting Spring Man to break the AT barrier. What's incredible to me is that, despite the ARMS character ultimately being Min Min, Waluigi is now seen as likelier. This, to me, is evidence that, with Min Min being a Spirit and Sakurai never mentioning Springo's AT status, consensus has it that Assist Trophies aren't a disconfirmation anymore. Huh. Did not see that one coming.
Winner of predictions was waddledeeonredyoshi waddledeeonredyoshi with 22.88%

Rex and Waluigi's day saw a surprising amount of haters show up. Just mentioning that as the explanation to the lower want scores.

Concept: A non-videogame character gets a Mii Costume
2.48% Chance - 45.00% Want
Winner of predictions were waddledeeonredyoshi waddledeeonredyoshi with 2.12% and GoodGrief741 GoodGrief741 with 2.84%

I also tallied the underrated/overrated, here are the results

Geno25
Shantae14
SwSh Pokemon14
Waluigi13
Doomguy10
Master Chief9
Bandana Dee8
KOS-MOS8
Crash Bandicoot7
2B6
Dixie Kong6
Rex6
Rillaboom6
Steve6
Dante5
Isaac5
Rayman5
Urshifu5
Lloyd4
Reimu4
Ryu Hayabusa4
BotW2 rep3
Paper Mario3
Phoenix Wright3
Porky3
Sakura3
Elma2
Heavy2
Pokémon rep2
Ryza2
BotW Zelda1
Danganronpa rep1
Gordon Freeman1
Lara Croft1
Master Hand1
Minecraft rep1
Monokuma1
Monster Hunter1
Next Fire Emblem protagonist1
Quote1
Recency bias1
Shill picks1
Sora1
Spring Man1
Tails1
Tracer1
Travis Touchdown1
Zelda rep1

Lara Croft16
Reimu Hakurei10
Monster Hunter9
Chosen Undead8
Isaac8
Neku7
Dragonborn6
Adol Christin5
Elma5
Estelle Bright5
Kazuma Kiryu5
Professor Layton5
Sol Badguy5
KOS-MOS4
League of Legends rep4
Quote4
Sakura Shinguji4
Sephiroth4
Bomberman3
Dark Souls rep3
Dr. Eggman3
Ezio3
Farmer3
Nightmare3
Rayman3
Saber3
Sora3
Waluigi3
Agumon2
Akira Howard2
Amaterasu2
Any Square Enix rep2
Bill Rizer2
Bravely rep2
Chell2
Contra rep2
Demi-fiend2
Dragapult2
Euden2
Falcom rep2
Gordon Freeman2
Hornet2
Level-5 rep2
Monokuma2
Paper Mario2
Prince of Persia2
Rean Schwarzer2
Ring Fit Trainee2
Ryu Hayabusa2
Second Sonic rep2
Tifa Lockhart2
Toad2
Ubisoft rep 2
Yo-kai Watch rep2
2B1
2K Games rep1
A new Fire Emblem rep1
Adam Jensen1
Aerith1
Agnès1
Amiya1
Animal Crossing reps1
Arc System Works rep1
Arle Nadja1
Arthur1
Assist Trophies1
Axel Stone1
BioShock rep1
Black Mage1
Black Shadow1
BotW rep1
BotW Zelda1
Bub & Bob1
Captain Toad1
Chibi-Robo1
Cinderace1
Civilization rep1
Crono1
Danganronpa rep1
Dig Dug1
Dixie Kong1
Dynasty Warriors rep 1
Eevee1
Far Cry rep1
First party characters1
Flynn1
Frank West1
Frogger1
Gen 8 Pokémon1
Gex1
Gunvolt1
Haze1
Heavy1
Hollow Knight1
Impa1
Jibanyan1
Kasumi1
Kid Icarus Uprising reps1
Killer Instinct rep1
Konami rep1
LEGO rep1
Lora and Jin1
Lu Bu1
Mach Rider1
Master Chief1
Maxwell1
NES/SNES Online promotion1
Non-Gen 8 Pokémon1
Non-promotional first party reps1
Octoling1
Phoenix Wright1
Pokéball Pokémon promotion1
Porky1
Prince of All Cosmos1
Qbby1
Randi1
Ratchet & Clank1
Ray1
Ryza1
Sakura Amamiya1
Scorbunny1
Shantae1
Shin Megami Tensei rep1
Shirou Emiya1
Shovel Knight1
Spirits1
Splatoon reps1
Spyro1
Steve1
Tekken rep1
Terra Branford1
Tetra1
Third party reps from existing franchises1
Toadette1
Tom Nook1
Urshifu1
Valve rep1
Vivi1
Yu Narukami1
Zero1

Oh yeah extra noms list

3BitSaurus 3BitSaurus 5
Artix Artix 15
Awakining Awakining 5
Blankiturayman Blankiturayman 10
BowserKing BowserKing 5
DanganZilla5 DanganZilla5 10
DaUsername DaUsername 97
Delzethin Delzethin 5
GoodGrief741 GoodGrief741 45
Icedragonadam Icedragonadam 5
Jomosensual Jomosensual 15
Lyncario Lyncario 5
NintenRob NintenRob 50
Nemuresu Nemuresu 10
Ninjaed Ninjaed 20
Perkilator Perkilator 5
Ridrool64 Ridrool64 15
Sari Sari 5
SKX31 SKX31 5
Troykv Troykv 15
waddledeeonredyoshi waddledeeonredyoshi 40
WeirdChillFever WeirdChillFever 5
Wunderwaft Wunderwaft 5
 
Last edited:

Lionfranky

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 4, 2019
Messages
1,037
Non-White/Asian Human Character

Chance: 10%
From what I've seen most of likely candidates are not in this category. Shantae and Elma come to mind, but I'm not that knowledgeable on either of them. Still, it's fact that majority of most likely candidates are not ethnicity outside of those two. There's Spartan Locke from Halo 5 if Microsoft is still on the table, but we all know that there is no way he's getting in before Master Chief. I also don't see using customizable characters as mean to get around this. Avatar characters are not distinct, set characters. So, I would hardly call them standard characters for specific ethnicity.

Want: 50%
I'm pretty neutral on this. It's good if newcomers happen to be in this category. If not, I won't have hard feeling because this is not break point for me. I just hope they are not chosen for sake of ethnic diversity. I have seen harm that PC culture brought to so many franchises. I'm confident that Nintendo is free of toxic culture for now. While I advocate for diversity in franchises and genres, this is far from kind of diversity I actively advocate for.

Nom: Neptune from Neptunia x 10
 

SharkLord

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 20, 2020
Messages
7,675
Location
Pangaea, 250 MYA
I haven't done these since August, holy ****. Thankfully the number of calcs to do was still pretty low because we had the Mario Direct, the last Partner Showcase, and day 500 in that period.

Tails
10.74% Chance - 70.00% Want
Last time we rated him he got 9.52% chance and 56.93% want. Since then, he got a Mii Costume, but lingering doubt over when the second Pass was defined balanced it out positively for him. And look at that want score! Since there haven't been any new Sonic games since then, I can only assume it's the movie that's driving support.
Winner of predictions was waddledeeonredyoshi waddledeeonredyoshi with 10.33%
Tails is now the third most wanted third party character.

Eggman
17.40% Chance - 76.28% Want
Winner of predictions was Jomosensual Jomosensual with a precise 18.00%
Eggman is now the third most wanted character overall, and the number one for third parties (sorry Phoenix!)

Andy
5.56% Chance - 67.81% Want
Last time we rated him he got 1.48% chance and 59.96% want. Clearly Spirits no longer being a death sentence has helped the young officer.
Winner of predictions was Lyncario Lyncario with 5.30%

Ayumi Tachibana
5.14% Chance - 69.55% Want
Winner of predictions were BowserKing BowserKing and NintenRob NintenRob with a precise 5.00%

Professor Layton
33.68% Chance - 68.44% Want
First time we rated him he got 32.96% chance and 67.19% want. Last time we rated him he got 32.56% chance and 55.36% want. Nothing's changed for Layton throughout DLC speculation aside from ports and the anime, no new games and no leaks, so it's logical that the chance score stays the same. Dunno what happened for the want to dip in that second rating, but it's since surged back up to its original heights.
Winner of predictions was DanganZilla5 DanganZilla5 with a precise 35.00%

Steve
33.19% Chance - 58.44% Want
We rerated Steve pretty recently so I'll just list all its scores
First rating: 55.69% chance - 23.89% want
Second rating: 3.04% chance - 38.17% want
Third rating: 33.94% chance - 41.17% want
Fourth rating: 44.40% chance - 51.86% want
Winner of predictions was NintenRob NintenRob with a precise 33.00%

Rex
56.96% Chance - 59.00% Want
Like Steve, Rex had a rating just before the fixed schedule, so I'll skip the write-up
First rating: 5.95% chance - 38.08% want
Second rating: 17.52% chance - 50.95% want
Third rating: 56.35% chance - 63.54% want
Winners of predictions were DanganZilla5 DanganZilla5 and Blankiturayman Blankiturayman with a precise 55.00%
Rex gets to keep his crown as the single most likely character.

Waluigi
22.68% Chance - 54.23% Want
First time we rated him he got 14.81% chance and 69.17% want. This was during a hypothetical "imagine Assist Trophies don't matter" day, but still, it's notable that his chance has gone up since. Last time we rated him he got 19.81% chance and 60.75% want. This was during the furor of the ARMS waiting game, with many expecting Spring Man to break the AT barrier. What's incredible to me is that, despite the ARMS character ultimately being Min Min, Waluigi is now seen as likelier. This, to me, is evidence that, with Min Min being a Spirit and Sakurai never mentioning Springo's AT status, consensus has it that Assist Trophies aren't a disconfirmation anymore. Huh. Did not see that one coming.
Winner of predictions was waddledeeonredyoshi waddledeeonredyoshi with 22.88%

Rex and Waluigi's day saw a surprising amount of haters show up. Just mentioning that as the explanation to the lower want scores.

Concept: A non-videogame character gets a Mii Costume
2.48% Chance - 45.00% Want
Winner of predictions were waddledeeonredyoshi waddledeeonredyoshi with 2.12% and GoodGrief741 GoodGrief741 with 2.84%

I also tallied the underrated/overrated, here are the results

Geno25
Shantae14
SwSh Pokemon14
Waluigi13
Doomguy10
Master Chief9
Bandana Dee8
KOS-MOS8
Crash Bandicoot7
2B6
Dixie Kong6
Rex6
Rillaboom6
Steve6
Dante5
Isaac5
Rayman5
Urshifu5
Lloyd4
Reimu4
Ryu Hayabusa4
BotW2 rep3
Paper Mario3
Phoenix Wright3
Porky3
Sakura3
Elma2
Heavy2
Pokémon rep2
Ryza2
BotW Zelda1
Danganronpa rep1
Gordon Freeman1
Lara Croft1
Master Hand1
Minecraft rep1
Monokuma1
Monster Hunter1
Next Fire Emblem protagonist1
Quote1
Recency bias1
Shill picks1
Sora1
Spring Man1
Tails1
Tracer1
Travis Touchdown1
Zelda rep1

Lara Croft16
Reimu Hakurei10
Monster Hunter9
Chosen Undead8
Isaac8
Neku7
Dragonborn6
Adol Christin5
Elma5
Estelle Bright5
Kazuma Kiryu5
Professor Layton5
Sol Badguy5
KOS-MOS4
League of Legends rep4
Quote4
Sakura Shinguji4
Sephiroth4
Bomberman3
Dark Souls rep3
Dr. Eggman3
Ezio3
Farmer3
Nightmare3
Rayman3
Saber3
Sora3
Waluigi3
Agumon2
Akira Howard2
Amaterasu2
Any Square Enix rep2
Bill Rizer2
Bravely rep2
Chell2
Contra rep2
Demi-fiend2
Dragapult2
Euden2
Falcom rep2
Gordon Freeman2
Hornet2
Level-5 rep2
Monokuma2
Paper Mario2
Prince of Persia2
Rean Schwarzer2
Ring Fit Trainee2
Ryu Hayabusa2
Second Sonic rep2
Tifa Lockhart2
Toad2
Ubisoft rep 2
Yo-kai Watch rep2
2B1
2K Games rep1
A new Fire Emblem rep1
Adam Jensen1
Aerith1
Agnès1
Amiya1
Animal Crossing reps1
Arc System Works rep1
Arle Nadja1
Arthur1
Assist Trophies1
Axel Stone1
BioShock rep1
Black Mage1
Black Shadow1
BotW rep1
BotW Zelda1
Bub & Bob1
Captain Toad1
Chibi-Robo1
Cinderace1
Civilization rep1
Crono1
Danganronpa rep1
Dig Dug1
Dixie Kong1
Dynasty Warriors rep 1
Eevee1
Far Cry rep1
First party characters1
Flynn1
Frank West1
Frogger1
Gen 8 Pokémon1
Gex1
Gunvolt1
Haze1
Heavy1
Hollow Knight1
Impa1
Jibanyan1
Kasumi1
Kid Icarus Uprising reps1
Killer Instinct rep1
Konami rep1
LEGO rep1
Lora and Jin1
Lu Bu1
Mach Rider1
Master Chief1
Maxwell1
NES/SNES Online promotion1
Non-Gen 8 Pokémon1
Non-promotional first party reps1
Octoling1
Phoenix Wright1
Pokéball Pokémon promotion1
Porky1
Prince of All Cosmos1
Qbby1
Randi1
Ratchet & Clank1
Ray1
Ryza1
Sakura Amamiya1
Scorbunny1
Shantae1
Shin Megami Tensei rep1
Shirou Emiya1
Shovel Knight1
Spirits1
Splatoon reps1
Spyro1
Steve1
Tekken rep1
Terra Branford1
Tetra1
Third party reps from existing franchises1
Toadette1
Tom Nook1
Urshifu1
Valve rep1
Vivi1
Yu Narukami1
Zero1

Oh yeah extra noms list

3BitSaurus 3BitSaurus 5
Artix Artix 15
Awakining Awakining 5
Blankiturayman Blankiturayman 10
BowserKing BowserKing 5
DanganZilla5 DanganZilla5 10
DaUsername DaUsername 97
Delzethin Delzethin 5
GoodGrief741 GoodGrief741 45
Icedragonadam Icedragonadam 5
Jomosensual Jomosensual 15
Lyncario Lyncario 5
NintenRob NintenRob 50
Nemuresu Nemuresu 10
Ninjaed Ninjaed 20
Perkilator Perkilator 5
Ridrool64 Ridrool64 15
Sari Sari 5
SKX31 SKX31 5
Troykv Troykv 15
waddledeeonredyoshi waddledeeonredyoshi 40
WeirdChillFever WeirdChillFever 5
Wunderwaft Wunderwaft 5
I'm honestly kinda surprised Reimu was considered more underrated than Chosen Undead and Monster Hunter. Maybe it's because she had a couple people declaring her to be overrated as well, but also being the runner-up and one of the only two to break into the double digits? That's honestly pretty impressive.

Also, the most overrated and most underrated characters are both owned by Square Enix. What are the odds?
 

Cutie Gwen

Lovely warrior
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
63,833
Location
Somewhere out there on this big blue marble
Honestly I'm disappointed that so many people are saying Japan's a very homogenous country when the reality is that just like here in the west, white skin is seen as 'pure' and people with darker skin don't get to be represented very well due to heavy discrimination. This is the best example I can think of after having just woken up.
unnamed.jpg

Tobei Tachibana is the most iconic mentor character in the Kamen Rider series and as you can see, the woman's face is partially exposed, showing that his skin is quite a bit darker as Tackle's wearing leggings. This shouldn't change scores but I feel people should know that Japan isn't homogenous but also has racism issues. People just assume Japan's completely apolitical because of trashy anime and their own lack of reading comprehension
 

amageish

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 21, 2018
Messages
3,558
Human Character Racialized as Non-White/Non-Asian

Chance: Abstain. Broad category is broad. I do feel like the chances go down he more focus the DLC has on first-parties though, as the list of Nintendo characters that would fit this concept is... rather small and they would all be curveball choices one way or another (and an uncomfortable amount of them are villains, liars, or otherwise suspicious people). Like, I'm fairly certain Nessa got a more positive reception then the games she is from themselves, but I don't think that she has great odds of getting in as a Gen 8 Pokemon rep...

Want: 100%. More (or, depending on how we're counting it, any) representation would be nice... Smash is only as diverse as the Japanese gaming industry is (i.e., it isn't very diverse), but I certainly would appreciate that changing over time. I also obviously want any new characters to be fun to play as my #1 concern, but I kind of assume "Sakurai doesn't suddenly forget how to do his job well" is an assumption we always make when doing want scores...

Noms: Moogle x 5
Prediction: ****ing Tidus? He gets 4% and too many references to laughing memes.
 
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