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Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes

Sari

Editing Staff
Writing Team
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Aug 3, 2014
Messages
4,439
Location
New Jersey
NNID
Villager49
Switch FC
SW-2215-0173-2152
More third parties from series with characters already in Smash

Chance: Abstain
There are so many candidates for this that I really don't feel like giving a chance rating. In general though I don't see it happening unless its an echo like Shadow.

Want: 50%
On one hand, I'd really love to see Kyo in Smash. On the other hand, I know Kyo isn't happening and there aren't that many characters from the current third party series that'd make me go crazy. Only additional Smash third party series characters I'd like to see off the top of my head are are Kyo, Chun-Li, and Robotnik (as well as some guilty pleasure picks like Iori and Alex). All of the other ones are either from brand new third parties or are first party.

Rex chance prediction: 50.00%

Nominations:
EDIT: As the person who nominated BotW2 Zelda, I don't wanna rate her until after Nintendo's summer showcase.

So I'm gonna nominate D.Va x5 so she can beat her
 
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GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
10,169
THESE CHARACTERS ARE LOCKED DOWN, NOMINATIONS FOR THEM ARE OBSOLETE

Day 460: Rex (Xenoblade Chronicles)
Day 461: Steve (Minecraft)
Day 462: Concept: Fighter Pass Volume 2 is mostly first-party
Day 463: Louie (Pikmin)
Day 464: Concept: Pokéball Pokémon becomes playable
Day 465: The Boss (Saints Row)
Day 466: Decidueye (Pokémon)


The Boss and Decidueye swapped places the last day, but otherwise the top seven was pretty much set in stone.

The new top seven consists of Meowth, Kratos, Dr. Eggman, Zelda, Lip, and a three-way tie between D.Va, The Stretchers, and Upgraded Spirit.


Meowth x101
[Rerate] Kratos x100
Dr. Eggman x98
Zelda (BotW sequel) x95
[Rerate] Lip x95
D.Va x90
The Stretchers x90
Concept: Upgraded Spirit x90

100 - 51

Concept: Darksiders rep x80
Sackboy x80
Proto Man x75
Concept: Pokémon Mystery Dungeon content x66
Nate Adams x65
Moogle x65
Tidus x65
Red (Angry Birds) x65
Fulgore x64
Lu Bu (Dynasty Warriors) x60
Alex Mason x60
[Rerate] Frisk x55

50 - 25

Dwight Fairfield (Dead by Daylight) x50
Mii Costume: Jill Stingray x50
Concept: SNES-era Final Fantasy rep x50
Boss: Ender Dragon x49
Echo: Zeraora (41e) x45
Concept: Content from currently unreleased game (not Spirit Events) (as of May 17th 2020) x45
Shuichi Saihara x45
The Terrarian x40
Echo: Dark Bowser (14e) x39
[Rerate] Captain Toad x38
Echo: Lord Fredrik (67e) x35
Concept: A person of color x35
Gooigi x32
Concept: Second F-Zero rep x31
[Rerate] Saki Amamiya x30
Urbosa x30
Echo: Xion (Sora) x30
Stage: Bowser's Castle x30
Giygas x28
Concept: Assist Trophies added in updates x27
Rival Pokémon Trainer x25
Sakura Shinguji x25

Under 25

Concept: Returning stages x21
[Rerate] Nightmare x20
Jin Sakai x20
Zeraora x15
Black Shadow x15
[Rerate] Paper Mario x15
Concept: No Spirit promotions x15
Wolf Link x15
Diablo (Diablo) x15
Concept: Dark Souls rep x15
[Rerate] Jin Kazama x10
[Rerate] Agumon x10
[Rerate] Monokuma x10
Gran/Djeeta x10
Lora and Jin x10
Otto Matic x10
The Avatar (Ultima) x10
Neptune (Hyperdimension Neptunia) x10
Concept: Bravely Default rep x10
Concept: Rocket League rep x10
[Rerate] Neku Sakuraba x10
Concept: More ATs as one new item x10
Chell x8
[Rerate] Professor Layton x8
Magolor x7
Taranza x6
Concept: Darkstalkers rep x6
Sparky (Clash Royale) x5
Concept: Overwatch character x5
Asha (Wonder Boy) x5
Mii Costume: Hat Kid x5
Concept: Portal 2 rep x5
Breath of the Wild 2 Ganondorf x5
Tick (Brawl Stars) x5
King Graham x5
Concept: Fortnite character x5
[Rerate] Andy x5
Cooking Mama x5
[Rerate] Toxtricity x5
Jill (Drill Dozer) x5
[Rerate] Takamaru x5
Asuka (Senran Kagura) x5
Furret x5
Deku Scrub x5
Mii Costume: Edward Falcon x5
Concept: A LABO character x5
Cynthia x5
Concept: Bonus character x5
Concept: Fighter Pass Volume 2 is half Nintendo and half third party x5
John Marston x5
Austin the Butler (Gardenscapes) x5
Concept: Generic Zora x3
Three Mage Sisters x2
Concept: A Pokémon Trainer who fights x2
Concept: A fighter who uses all kicks x2
[Rerate] Metal Sonic x2
Concept: Generic Goron x2
Mii Costume: Jacket x2
Boss: Rayquaza x2
Echo: 40e x1

Sakura Shinguji reaches 25 noms.

Today's newcomer is Austin the Butler, with 5 noms.

DrifloonEmpire DrifloonEmpire Forgive the question, but why did you nominate Austin?

Metal Gear Solid - Highly unlikely due to lawsuits, probably was really damn tough to even get Snake back
As far as I'm aware of there isn't any legal controversy about who owns Metal Gear or its characters, any lawsuits that Konami's facing are for mistreating employees.
 

Lyncario

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 3, 2019
Messages
926
Location
Hell
The third parties get new buddies

Chance: 1%
Seeing how not even Sonic has a new unique character, I don't thin kthat it's hapening at all, at least not in Ultimate. Which is a shame, because there's so many good options.

Want: 99%
Like I said, so many good options. Tidus, Sephiroth, Minato, Yu, Tatsuya, Geese, Kyo, Lori, Nakoruru, Shadow, Tails, Zero, Raiden, Mr Bison, and so many more, they would all be so cool.
 

warpenguin55

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 20, 2018
Messages
490
Already repped 3rd party
Chance: 31%
Lets just do a big rundown on both my chance and want. First up, which series have a chance?

Banjo-Kazooie- Gruntilda? Probably no more reps here.
Bayonetta - Jeanne comes to mind, Rodin would be cool.
Castlevania - Think Sakurai said he considered Alucard
Dragon Quest - Square series lmao
Final Fantasy - See above
Megaman - Possible, IDK enough about Megaman to say who would get the rep
Metal Gear Solid - Doubtful with the legal battle going. EDIT: nevermind guess thats over with. Raiden is possible.
Pac-Man - Ms. Pac Man probably isn't the best idea for DLC.
Persona/SMT - Probably not getting more here
Sonic - Best chance. Eggman and Tails are decent picks.
Fatal Fury - I know nothing about this.
Street Fighter - 2nd place for sure. Chun-Li

Math came out to 41% of the 3rd parties having a shot. I cut 10% off though because I thought it would be a good idea to factor in new 3rd parties and 1st parties.


Want: 33%
So for who I would want from these series:
Banjo-Kazooie: Nobody
Bayonetta: Rodin is pretty cool
Castlevania: Nobody
Dragon Quest: Nobody
Final Fantasy: Tifa
Megaman: Nobody
Metal Gear Solid: Nobody
Pac-Man: Nobody
Persona/SMT: Nobody
Sonic: Eggman
SNK: Nobody
Street Fighter: Chun-Li is cool, but not really high up on my wish list

Math gives me a 33% here.


Noms: Alex Mason x5
 
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fogbadge

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
22,676
Location
Scotland
hmm an interesting one

chances: 50% i can see this happening. plenty of them are very popular and sometimes thats all it takes, doesnt even need to be smash demand just general popularity. so really i dont think thered be much standing in their way bar other priorities.

want: well as with all these characters it depends who it is. tails for instance would be 100% others would not be so. so while the likes of eggman, amy, knuckles, cream, blaze, chaotix, roll, grunty, mumbo jumbo, cecil, terra, squal, sepiroth, cat sith would all be gladly accepted, characters like shadow, tifa, barret, yuffie, anyone from the demon hag's game, metal gear, castlevania, persona, dragon quest and snk would not be welcome. and naturally theres a lot of characters who id be indifferent to.

nominate nate adams x5
 

amageish

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 21, 2018
Messages
3,558
Second Rep for a Third Party Franchise Already Playable in Smash

Chance: 40%. Thank you to whoever was nominating this, as you made me rethink a few things about Smash speculation (which also led to me creating a new support thread)!

I was originally going to give this concept a lower rating due to two "problems," but, upon further thought, I'm not convinced either are really problems anymore.

"Problem" 1: Filling a Challenger Pack with content. Obviously a character would need to have spirits/music tracks/a stage without feeling like they are scraping the bottom of the barrel. This could be a problem for a couple franchises (some do have an abundance of content in the base game), but, overall, I feel like most third-parties are in a similar-ish position to Kirby in terms of content. They may have a lot of content in Smash already, but that content largely circles around particular eras of the game's history, so a hypothetical DLC character could come with content to represent a different era of that history. Like how people often suggest Bandana Dee can represent modern Kirby, I think Chun Li could represent modern Street Fighter without feeling like they're out of unique ideas. Then there are also the situations of Final Fantasy, which has almost nothing, and Persona, which ignores mainline MegaTen.

"Problem" 2: Popularity. Smash fans discussing third parties tend to prefer to discuss new franchises that could get in Smash then who should come in second place for an old one. So, I initially was concerned that there was a lack of fan demand to justify a double-dipping.... However, thinking about it more, most of the "shocking" reveals in Smash history are objectively-popular characters people had ignored because their popularity didn't loudly manifest within preexistent Smash fandom. The franchises already in Smash include some of the biggest video game IPs out there - plenty of whom have been super successful and topical lately - so I could see Sakurai/Nintendo deciding it's worth double-dipping to capitalize on a present franchise's expanding popularity. I don't think any individual second rep is insanely likely, but with their powers combined? I think it's pretty possible.

That said, I do think the odds go down considerably as/if the motif of "new worlds" continues throughout the DLC, as we haven't gotten any character who isn't representing a new timeline for Smash thus far...

Want: Abstain. In spite of my wall of text, this concept is broad and I'm not really invested in discussions of if the game should have more first versus third party characters. I want a group of diverse characters with fun mechanics; I don't especially care what companies own the IPs.

Noms: Moogle x5
Predictions: Rex? Man, this rating could very wildly... Really wish we knew the second character for more of a sense of the pass's direction... I'm going 50%.
 

chocolatejr9

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 30, 2018
Messages
8,385
Abstain. I feel it's too soon to properly determine this. We'll have to see how the pass goes.

Nominations: Meowth x4, Boss: Ender Dragon x1
 

GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
10,169
Some quick calcs while I wait for the PS5 presentation to start.

Ahri
14.50% Chance - 39.00% Want
Winner of predictions was amageish amageish with a precise 12.00%

Concept: Auroros, Jyk and Poppant as Assist Trophies
0.10% Chance - 37.65% Want
Winners of predictions were Sari Sari and NintenRob NintenRob with the exact score! That nets you both 15 extra noms. But additionally, waddledeeonredyoshi waddledeeonredyoshi and SKX31 SKX31 predicted within .05%, so you get 10 extra noms as well.
We're looking at the new holder of the record for least likely concept. I don't think anyone's surprised, only two of its chance scores weren't 0 and that's because they were two 1s.

Frank West
5.66% Chance - 47.73% Want
Winner of predictions was Ninjaed Ninjaed with a precise 6.00%

Extra noms

amageish amageish 5
Artix Artix 15
Awakining Awakining 5
BowserKing BowserKing 10
DanganZilla5 DanganZilla5 5
DaUsername DaUsername 92
Delzethin Delzethin 5
NintenRob NintenRob 20
Nemuresu Nemuresu 10
Ninjaed Ninjaed 10
Perkilator Perkilator 5
Sari Sari 45
SKX31 SKX31 10
Ramen Tengoku Ramen Tengoku 10
Troykv Troykv 15
waddledeeonredyoshi waddledeeonredyoshi 10
 

Neosonic97

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 18, 2018
Messages
304
This concept is a bit broad for my liking, and I don't feel like typing up a huge paragraph explaining why I don't understand how the Sonic series hasn't gotten a second representative yet despite Sonic being the only third party franchise that's appeared in more than two Smash games (and is basically a mainstay by now). Double Abstain.

Noms: Terrarian x5.
 

Calamitas

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 17, 2018
Messages
2,689
Location
Germany
Third-parties with pals

Chance: 0%
I just don't see it. This is the third game in a row already that even features third-parties, and thus far, and the only one that has really double-dipped after its initial fighter is Street Fighter - and even that is a bit of an out there case, since Ken's an echo. Not to mention that this was for the base game. I think it's just really more likely that any future third-party character is going to be from a completely new series. And even if there were a chance, I think we can disregard all the franchises introduced in Fighter Pass 1.

Want: . . .Actually, I'm not sure. Let me go over the series we currently have in Smash before I give my rating.
  • Metal Gear - Based on what I know of the series, I think Raiden could be fun? Gonna mark that down as a series I'd want someone else for.
  • Sonic - Oh, yeah. Even if my own real participation in the Sonic fandom is many years in the past, I could still think of several characters I'd like to see, like Dr Eggman or Blaze.
  • Mega Man - Eh, never really played the series much, but I think Zero could be cool. Or another incarnation of Mega Man.
  • Pac-Man - Nah.
  • Street Fighter - Nah.
  • Final Fantasy - Don't have much familiarity with the series, but I've seen some characters that could be cool.
  • Bayonetta - I'd be down for Jeanne, be it as an echo or as a unique fighter.
  • Castlevania - Nah.
  • Persona - Big no.
  • Dragon Quest - Also big no.
  • Banjo-Kazooie - No.
  • Fatal Fury - No.
So out of twelve third-party franchises in Smash, that makes five that I'd like new characters for. Putting that into a proper percentage. . .
Want: 42%

Nominating. . . uh, let's go with Concept: A person of colour x5.

Predicting. . . urgh. . . Rex to get around 23.72%. I certainly won't rate him high, that I can already assure y'all. . .
 
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Ninjaed

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 7, 2018
Messages
468
Thank you to whoever was nominating this, as you made me rethink a few things about Smash speculation (which also led to me creating a new support thread)!
You're welcome, I wanted to spark discussion with this and cast a new light on the usual speculation.

-
Concept: fighter from an already repped 3rd party franchise

Chance: 30%
Many figured we wouldn't be getting Fire Emblem or Pokémon in FP1 because many FE/Pokémon characters already and all that. Now people are saying we wouldn't be getting a new Sonic rep (for example) because that'd be representing the same game world. From where I'm standing, this looks like a guideline, not a rule. It's impossible to fully represent a franchise with one rep, and franchises tend to span several games. Why is that important? Because FE3H was deemed to be a new game world. That means we could get a new fighter while adhering to the guideline (which may be ignored anyway if they so wish).

The possibility therefore distinctly exists. Now that this is proven, let's see the candidates (bolding the ones with an actual chance):

- Banjo & Kazooie: just got a rep as DLC, not getting another yet.
- Bayonetta: Rodin is an AT, Jeanne would likely be an echo. That aside, the series isn't big enough compared to the other 3rd party giants in smash for it to be the first one to get a 2nd playable fighter.
- Castlevania: Alucard had been considered but became an AT, Dracula became a boss. While FP2 has been said not to be originally planned, it's doubtful they'd see an upgrade in ultimate FP2... especially considering Capcom has so many options to choose from still.
- Dragon Quest: massive in Japan, but like B&K we just got a rep as DLC. Otherwise, I'd definitely consider it for one of those few lucky series to get a 2nd fighter.
- Fatal Fury: same as B&K or DQ.
- Final Fantasy: huge series, impactful in gaming history, popular and has demand for many candidates, including (but not restricted to): Sephiroth, Terra, Lightning, Noctis, Tidus, Tifa, Aerith, Black Mage, Chocobo... In fact, a new FF stage would be a great opportunity to feature marlboro, coeurls and other iconic FF critters.
- Megaman: Zero is an AT so I'd say he's seemingly out of the equation... X on the other hand would definitely be an option, and likely option #1 even if Zero was available. Megaman has made non negligible ripples in gaming history and could indeed warrant a new fighter. X is almost cheating as it could be considered a different series but I digress. Regardless, he'd rep aspects that our current man of rock doesn't... or rather can't, thus fulfilling both "new game world" and "new aspects".
- Metal Gear Solid: Raiden would probably be MGS's best bet, but I don't see it yet when titans like Eggman exist and aren't in yet.
- Pac Man: who would want Ms. Pac Man?
- Persona/SMT: same as B&K or DQ.
- Sonic: the third party franchise here. Sonic is easily top 5 most iconic video game mascots (with Mario, Pikachu... not sure Lara Croft counts). Between Tails, Knuckles, Shadow or Dr Eggman, there's no shortage of popular requests. But there's more than popularity at play in a new rep, all the more so for 3rd parties. Tails, Knuckles and Shadow are in a bad spot for more than one reason... Eggman on the other hand isn't an AT nor a mii costume. He's also the one constant other than Sonic is pretty much anything Sonic-related and would play nothing like the blue hedgehog. Sega is also one of only 4 companies that waged the console war, giving the Sonic series an edge over the others. Finally, you have classic Sonic and modern Sonic. We got modern Sonic in Smash. Eggman would be the perfect opportunity for some classic Sonic callbacks (to you all who argue "new game worlds only" as a roadblock).
- Street Fighter: no doubt the "2nd" rep we'd get from Street Fighter would be Chun-Li. Possible? Definitely, Street Fighter "invented" (through a glitch) the combo system. SF2 is also the game that gave us the HP bars at the top. Many things in fighting games are due to SF, so there shouldn't be any arguing against it getting another rep. Especially if it's the iconic and popular (and thicc) Chun-Li.

So we're left with: Final Fantasy, Megaman, Sonic and Street Fighter. Those 4 have very strong contenders, putting many speculation regulars to shame. If Nintendo were to decide to double dip for any of those series, they'd stand little to lose honestly. That said, there are only 5 slots left and I doubt ARMS will be the only 1st party rep. Then there are unrepped 3rd party franchises, many of which are iconic enough themselves. At best, I'd see 1 franchise at most getting a 2nd fighter. My money would be on Sonic for several reasons already stated and more, but this isn't a Sonic day so I'll cut it short here.

One last point though, if Nintendo were to give us such a fighter, wouldn't you agree that'd generate massive hype? If Nintendo wants to make the game live a bit longer with an FP3, that'd definitely be the way. The floodgates would be open and the next smash instalment would be hype like crazy because of all the possibilities people are currently dismissing as impossible or improbable. It's difficult to see why they'd pass on such an "easy" way to create hype (which usually requires quite some investment) while at the same time releasing a popular, requested, iconic, fun and unique character. If there are drawbacks, I don't see them.

Want: 100%
It's honestly almost impossible to go wrong with all those great choices. Chun-Li, Alucard, X, Eggman, Sephiroth... you could easily have an entire FP dedicated to 3rd party franchises getting a 2nd fighter. And many people's most wanted actually falls into that category. Some of my most wanted are in fact no exception, and I've seen it be true for many people here as well. Also like I said earlier, that'd rekindle hope for many concerning their "pipe dreams". Just like how ARMS rekindled hope for those who want spirit or AT upgrades.

Predictions: Rex - 7%
Nominations: Concept: more ATs as one new item x5
 
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Jomosensual

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 13, 2018
Messages
2,014
Looks like it's time for me to start nom Aloy back up. Mostly joking but god damn was that trailer got me excited. Takes some of the edge off waiting for Smash
 

fogbadge

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
22,676
Location
Scotland
Third-parties with pals

Chance: 0%
I just don't see it. This is the third game in a row already that even features third-parties, and thus far, and the only one that has really double-dipped after its initial fighter is Street Fighter - and even that is a bit of an out there case, since Ken's an echo. Not to mention that this was for the base game. I think it's just really more likely that any future third-party character is going to be from a completely new series. And even if there were a chance, I think we can disregard all the franchises introduced in Fighter Pass 1.

Want: . . .Actually, I'm not sure. Let me go over the series we currently have in Smash before I give my rating.
  • Metal Gear - Based on what I know of the series, I think Raiden could be fun? Gonna mark that down as a series I'd want someone else for.
  • Sonic - Oh, yeah. Even if my own real participation in the Sonic fandom is many years in the past, I could still think of several characters I'd like to see, like Dr Eggman or Blaze.
  • Mega Man - Eh, never really played the series much, but I think Zero could be cool. Or another incarnation of Mega Man.
  • Pac-Man - Nah.
  • Street Fighter - Nah.
  • Final Fantasy - Don't have much familiarity with the series, but I've seen some characters that could be cool.
  • Bayonetta - I'd be down for Jeanne, be it as an echo or as a unique fighter.
  • Castlevania - Nah.
  • Persona - Big no.
  • Dragon Quest - Also big no.
  • Banjo-Kazooie - No.
  • Fatal Fury - No.
So out of twelve third-party franchises in Smash, that makes five that I'd like new characters for. Putting that into a proper percentage. . .
Want: 42%

Nominating. . . uh, let's go with Concept: A person of colour x5.

Predicting. . . urgh. . . Rex to get around 23.72%. I certainly won't rate him high, that I can already assure y'all. . .
so becuase its never happened before its not gonna happen is that the logic?
 

GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
10,169
Castlevania: Alucard had been considered but became an AT, Dracula became a boss. While FP2 has been said not to be originally planned, it's doubtful they'd see an upgrade in ultimate FP2... especially considering Capcom has so many options to choose from still.
Castlevania's Konami...
 

SKX31

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 22, 2019
Messages
3,462
Location
Sweden
The Return of The Third Parties: Revengeance of the Reckoning 4K Blu-Ray Definite Edition DX (Starring Jim Carrey's Dr. Eggman):

Chance: 0,5 % (Ultimate) 30 % (Smash 6)

I can only see it happening with Ultimate if Ultimate goes live-service or something like that. Buuut, considering that FP2 is probably going to be the last characters... not seeing it yet. There's always the possibility of an Ultimate DX or something like on the next Nintendo console, and that could theoretically increase the chances. For now, a lot of the focus is going to be on new stuff for FP2 (going by precendence established by FP1), and characters from already existing third part franchises have to bring in additional stages, music tracks etc. Not easy.

But why the 60-fold increase in a future sequel (whenever Smash 6 happens - 2025 or later on, like 2030. Who knows.)? Well, that's a different ball-game precisely because "Ultimate will never be topped roster-wise" is the prevalent opinion. There's a lot of potential hype that's relatively inexpensive to develop. A second Sonic character can borrow from Sonic's design obviously and be tweaked, whether it's Knuckles, Shadow or someone else. A second Street Fighter or Fatal Fury / KOF character can likewise be included with not too much fuss.

Smash 6 is probably not going to match - let alone exceed the hype surrounding Ultimate. But a Smash 6 can still do quite a bit - especially by expanding on already repped third party series (presuming that's not a thing with FP2 for the sake of argument).

Want: Varies based on character, but overall 50 %.

My preferences may be centered around new stuff, but I won't mind additional characters from already repped third party series. I do lean towards Sonic, Metal Gear and FF characters a tad, but I'm not going to mind other series either.

Nominations: Concept: more ATs as one new item x5
(Nashville Predators) Predictions: Rex 1/8 aka. 12.5 % on the dot.
 

RileyXY1

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
7,465
so becuase its never happened before its not gonna happen is that the logic?
That's one of the reasons why they were so convinced that FP5 was going to be third party. Some people just stick too closely to fan rules.
 

BowserKing

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 16, 2019
Messages
1,919
Location
winnipeg
Rep from Third Party Franchise that also has at least one rep

Chance: 10%. Since the Fighters pass can support fighters from a franchise that already has reps, I don't see why it shouldn't have one. Thing is, we don't know what character it will be. And there are Third Parties in the game that don't have playable characters yet, so that is another thing that could be possible. But the chance of a rep from a repped third party franchise is not impossible.

Want: Depends on Franchise, but 100% for a new Sonic Rep. Given how Iconic the Sonic the Hedgehog franchise is, it would be a great idea to give this franchise a second rep, with my main choices being Shadow or Knuckles. Besides that, I would also like to see Chun Li in the game as well. Overall, there are decent choices for franchises with a rep already, but more would never hurt.

Prediction: Rex (10%)

Noms: 5 for Boss: Rayquaza, 5 for Boss: Ender Dragon and 5 for Stage: Bowser's Castle
 

RileyXY1

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
7,465
2nd Unique Rep for Third Parties

Chance: 15%
Although it hasn't happened before, it's not impossible. Several 3rd party franchises could use an extra unique rep, such as Sonic and Street Fighter.

Want: 75%
Considering that Tails is one of my biggest requests, yes please. Sonic, Street Fighter, and others are well deserving of a second unique fighter.

Noms: No AT promotions x5
 

GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
10,169
... I TOLD YOU I'D MIX THEM UP AGAIN!! I don't know why... I DON'T KNOW WHY!! DOC, WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!!
It's a normal defense mechanism, your brain is trying to pretend Konami doesn't exist. It's called pachinko syndrome and it can be lethal if not treated.
 

RouffWestie

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 27, 2013
Messages
1,239
Location
Georgia
More reps for current third-parties
Chance: 15%
There's many characters in this category I could see Nintendo including due to fan demand and overall recognizably. They're not incredibly likely, but after seeing that they went back to ARMS after apparently, "it's only worth an Assist Trophy and Spirits," I'm definitely seeing it as a possibility. If it does happen, I only realistically believe they would do it for one franchise, delegating the rest of the pass to other recent first-party titles and other guest characters.

Want: Abstain
I can't say I support the basic concept. There's some franchises I'd love to get a new character, but then there's some that I wouldn't care about. For instance, I'd be down for practically any Sonic newcomer, but I wouldn't care for any more Persona reps.

Nominations: Concept: Pokémon Mystery Dungeon content x5
 

TCT~Phantom

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3rd Parties part deux

30% Chance

Really, this is this high due to me thinking Sephiroth is a sleeper choice for DLC. I lowkey can see that happening. The only other way in my opinion we are getting anything is if we get a Sonic character or echo fighters.

I made a big post on Sephiroth being a sleeper choice, and I can see it happening. Don;t feel like digging it up but basically biggest gaming villain arguably not in smash and FF7R puts him in the spotlight.

Another Sonic Char is also something I always entertain. Eggman or Tails both would be decent unique choices if they really wanted to. But then part of me states that if they did not do it now why would they do it later ya know? It just feels like it would have happened already.

As for echoes, third party echoes would be way harder to do since there are actual negotiations. While I have a feeling that first party echoes might come, third party echoes are a bit dicier. I was a big Shadow optimist for base game, but for DLC? I think its slim to none.

60% Want

Look, I would like Sephiroth or Eggman. And I would be happy enough with Tails. And there are a lot of cool characters that would be awesome in Smash. But concepts this broad I am never a fan of. Yes there are choices that I would be happy with, but at the same time there are plenty of choices I would roll my eyes at. The only reason this is not lower is more music from most of these franchises is great.

Nominating Concept: FP2 Character comes with an echo fighter x 5
 

Ninjaed

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Another Sonic Char is also something I always entertain. Eggman or Tails both would be decent unique choices if they really wanted to. But then part of me states that if they did not do it now why would they do it later ya know? It just feels like it would have happened already.
This part is interesting to discuss I think. I've seen a few argue this and then:
so becuase its never happened before its not gonna happen is that the logic?
What fogbadge said is true. Because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it never will. You do have a point about why it's taking so long, but then again it took forever for big names like Dragon Quest to get in. Meanwhile, Bayonetta got in before Terry. It's a bit hard to know where they're getting at and there are counterarguments. I just feel like this one is "weak". ARMS especially should've destroyed such notions. We used to think spirit/AT upgrades were 100% impossible and now lo and behold, they're suddenly in the realm of possibility. In fact, ARMS made me wonder how they'd surprise us this time and it's part of how I came up with this suggestion. Still, the lack of precedents does put a dent in those hopes... but while down, they're not out! (yes I'm hyped for FP2)
 
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TCT~Phantom

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This part is interesting to discuss I think. I've seen a few argue this and then:

What fogbadge said is true. Because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it never will. You do have a point about why it's taking so long, but then again it took forever for big names like Dragon Quest to get in. Meanwhile, Bayonetta got in before Terry. It's a bit hard to know where they're getting at and there are counterarguments. I just feel like this one is "weak". ARMS especially should've destroyed such notions. We used to think spirit/AT upgrades were 100% impossible and now lo and behold, they're suddenly in the realm of possibility. In fact, ARMS made me wonder how they'd surprise us this time and it's part of how I came up with this suggestion. Still, the lack of precedents does put a dent in those hopes... but while down, they're not out! (yes I'm hyped for FP2)
Just because it can be different does not mean that it will be. Yes rules are broken, but this rule as of now still stands unlike other rules that ARMS is gonna break. We have had two smash games in which there were opportunities to add a second Sonic character, and had a whole game and DLC pass where they could have added another character from another franchise. As of now, what I say still stands. Just because ARMS breaks some rules we have does not mean that this rule is not broken. ARMS getting in is a blessing for discussion since it means that we actually can discuss a lot of things avoiding fan made rules. This is not one of the rules that it breaks.

My rating was essentially a Sephiroth rating, still see him as a sleeper pick, and likely the only third party who would join an existing franchise.
 

Ninjaed

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Just because it can be different does not mean that it will be. Yes rules are broken, but this rule as of now still stands unlike other rules that ARMS is gonna break. We have had two smash games in which there were opportunities to add a second Sonic character, and had a whole game and DLC pass where they could have added another character from another franchise. As of now, what I say still stands. Just because ARMS breaks some rules we have does not mean that this rule is not broken. ARMS getting in is a blessing for discussion since it means that we actually can discuss a lot of things avoiding fan made rules. This is not one of the rules that it breaks.

My rating was essentially a Sephiroth rating, still see him as a sleeper pick, and likely the only third party who would join an existing franchise.
I don't actually disagree, that's why I said it's "weak" and not wrong. So far the rule has held fast like you said, so it's completely fair that you rate with that in mind. I just found it an interesting point to discuss because who knows how they'll surprise us next.
 

Sari

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Day over.

Rate Rex from the Xenoblade series.

Predict Steve from Minecraft.

Day will probably end Sunday morning.

Megadoomer Megadoomer

-----

Some songs to get into the salvaging mood:

 

Perkilator

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Captain Rex, Execute Order 66

Chance: 60%
Depending on who gets picked for ARMS, Spirits and Mii Costumes might be in a good spot. Not guaranteed, but still somewhat likely.

Want: 50%
I wouldn't mind. In fact, I've been meaning to properly sink my teeth into the series for some time now.

Steve: 20%

Noms:
Xion as Sora's Echo Fighter ×2
Sakura Shinguji ×3
 

amageish

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Rex

Chance: Abstain. I can't think of a number here that wouldn't fluctuate wildly depending on what the philosophy behind picking an ARMS character was... So I'm giving up and abstaining! Huzzah!

Want: 80%. I really want to like Rex more then I do, but I'm XBC2 is definitely a game where the secondary characters are more interesting to me then the protagonist... I know Lora wouldn't get in over Rex, but still...

Steve: 30%.

Noms: Moogle x 10.
 

warpenguin55

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Rex:
Chance: 25%
OK. I was really hoping that we'd get the ARMS rep before this rerate. If we actually can get spirit upgrades in this pass, Rex's chances shoot up. I might try to rerate him in a month or 2.

Want: 95%
I like Rex. XB2 was fun. Would be happy to see him in Smash. Probably my most wanted 1st party character

Noms: Alex Mason x5
 

Jomosensual

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Rex

Abstaining because I feel like it's kinda pointless to type a thing up for him when the upcoming Arms reveal will likely impact him a lot

Predictions:
Steve - 30%

Noms
Stretchers x5
 

RouffWestie

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DanganZilla5

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I've got nothing clever this time

Chance: 50%

I wish we had waited a little more time before this rating but whatever. As it stands, the fact that ARMS, a game from 2017, the same year that Xenoblade Chronicles 2 came out, is getting a rep is a good sign. The fact that Sakurai also apologized for Rex missing out on the base roster is definitely something to note and I can totally see Rex now being included due to his fan demand and Xenoblade having ever-growing popularity.

Some people will bring up the couple Xenoblade 2 tracks and his Mii costume. As for the music, really? I've seen some people bring this up as a reason for Rex to not be included, but it's just a few tracks. There is plenty that is missing and they can easily fill a challenger pack, same with spirits. As for the Mii costume, I usually view these as a death sentence but with Rex he's a special case where he was an incentive to purchase the first fighters pass and you couldn't pay for him individually. I'm not completely sure if that would help him but it's certainly a very interesting spot to be in. But if I had to bet on a Mii costume upgrade, it would definitely be Rex.

It just comes down to who the ARMS rep is. Rex is also a spirit and while I strongly believe base game spirits don't deconfirm, if they intentionally dodged any of the spirit characters, that is a bad sign. Overall, Rex to me is in a complicated spot and it's easy to see why he would or wouldn't be included. So yeah I agree with rerating him in a month or two.

Want: 70%

Even after all this time I still haven't given the Xenoblade games much of a chance. That doesn't take away the fact that Res just makes a lot of sense to be a playable character and I would be hyped for him. Xenoblade definitely deserves a second rep and just think of the stage and music choices. I honestly think he got gypped of a roster slot and I want to see this man get the recognition he deserves because god dammit he is a good character and Xenoblade 2 is a beautiful game with lots to offer for Smash.

Prediction: Steve - 50% (Here we go again)

Noms: Ezio x5
 

jamesster445

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Can we all admit that you want this guy because of his waifu swords and not him as an individual yet?

Chance: 80%
Want: 60%
While it's easy to say that a new Xenoblade character is imminent and the only thing holding Rex back much like ARMS was timing. Unlike ARMS, Xenoblade 2 actually did get a fair amount of content, but theres certainly more to have between X, 2, DE and Torna which is absolutely welcome. Rex himself doesn't interest me in the slightest. I'll be up front in saying that I thought he was the worst part of XB2 and his fighting style isnt that interesting and his Aegis blade is a little too similar to the Monado if you ask me. And while I do think there is potential on Blade/Driver mechanics, Every character in that game can utilize these same mechanics while also sporting vastly more interesting weapons. But I am starved for more Xenoblade content so I'm not opposed to this, anymore.

Nominations: Diablo x5
 

Sari

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The archenemy of Calamitas Calamitas and Cutie Gwen Cutie Gwen

Chance: 80%
Yeah I think Rex is really likely. We rated him back in early March (before the ARMS announcement) so I'll paste the main points I wrote back then:
  • Sakurai greatly enjoyed Xenoblade 2 and even considered it to be a considerable achievement.
  • Rex is a very popular Smash request especially in Japan even while being stuck as just a Mii costume.
  • Sakurai is aware of Rex's Smash popularity as he apologized to fans that he couldn't be playable when Rex's Mii costume was revealed.
  • Sakurai later stated that he most likely would've added Rex had Xenoblade 2 released earlier.
  • Sakurai has stated that he's not thinking about any future Smash game at the moment which makes me think he'll go all in with fan requests like Rex and not bother holding off on them for later.
  • The Xenoblade series as a whole has also been becoming more and more popular each year, so there's a chance even Nintendo could shill for it further by adding the protagonist of their most recent game. Yes Xenoblade 2 is a few years old but we still got Byleth months after Three Houses released.
The biggest thing that has changed since the previous Rex rating is that ARMS is now getting a character. Like Xenoblade 2, ARMS is a game that Sakurai said would've been in the base game had it not been for bad timing. Regardless of who the ARMS character turns out to be, the fact that they're adding an ARMS character now (which already has spirits/Mii costumes in the base game) really makes me think that we'll get some more Xenoblade 2 content. With him being a popular character that missed his original chance for a variety of issues, Rex is really shaping up to be Chrom 2.0.

As for his downsides, he has to compete with other Xenoblade characters such as Elma as well as various Xenoblade 1 characters because of the DE. Considering Rex's popularity in Japan and the DE releasing just last month however, I think he'd have priority over all of them. Of course there's also the fact that we already have a (very small) amount of Xenoblade 2 content in Smash right now, but the ARMS character mostly negates that (even moreso if the ARMS rep turns out to be either Spring Man or Ribbon Girl). Also there are only 3 songs from Xenoblade 2 currently in Smash so there is always more room for more of the game's amazing tracks.

Want: 100%
It's crazy looking back on my experience with Xenoblade 2. At first I didn't really like it since I wasn't a fan of the battle system and the writing was cringeworthy at times. But after getting used to the combat and doing a bunch of sidequests, it became one of my favorite Switch games.

I'd be lying if I said Rex was some deep and complex character. For starters he's the textbook example of a Stock Shōnen Hero not to mention most of his English screams legit made me laugh when I first heard them. While my dream Xenoblade 2 pick would be Morag/Brighid (because flaming whip swords are a new level of cool), Rex would still be an amazing fighter thanks to his blade combos and of course Pyra (and possibly Mythra) being a part of his moveset.

Oh and Xenoblade 2's OST is phenomenal. If it hadn't been for my usual three song limit for the music posts, I totally would've posted the themes of Gormott and Uraya. The Mor Ardain theme (second track I posted in today's Rex music post) is also one of my most wanted music tracks for Ultimate. Not to mention if the Torna DLC is counted then we've got a ton of other amazing tracks available for Smash as well.

(Yes I know this is the same want score reasoning as last time, but its the perfect way to summarize my thoughts on Rex/XB2 + nothing's changed since then).


Steve chance prediction: 25.00%

Nominations:
Quote x5
 

GoodGrief741

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King and Fire

Chance: 100%
Oh yeah, I'm going there. If there's one character I'm completely confident we're getting, it's Rex & Pyra. It doesn't matter to me who the ARMS rep is, the sole fact that Sakurai and Nintendo chose to include a character from it, to me, indicates the intent of going back to fix what couldn't be done for the base roster. Now, that doesn't mean that the whole Pass will consist of "sorry they weren't in the first time around" picks, but if there's a singular character that benefits from that it's Rex.

He's massively popular, from the highest selling game in a growing series that Nintendo wants to push, and we even got an apology for him not being included. How many characters can you say that about? You don't have to think hard about content, there's plenty of characters that aren't Spirits yet, very few music in-game, and obviously no stage from XC2. And he's got weak competition. Cross, Elma, and anyone from Xenoblade X grow more irrelevant each day and, with little demand and the future of the X subseries looking kinda grim, it looks like the train has left the station. Some have said that another character from the first Xenoblade could get in to promote the Definitive Edition, but I don't see it - it's a remake, it doesn't warrant the promotional treatment. Even if it did, it's the game with the most content already in Smash, with its main character playable, a stage, an AT, songs and Spirits galore.

Want: 100%
Rex is a generic, cheery anime goober and Pyra is complete waifu-bait, so why I like them so much is a mystery to me. I guess there's a charm in such unabashed anime-ness that loops back around. But regardless, I like the characters, I like their designs, I dig how I envision them playing. And, most of all, they were freaking robbed of a slot and I like justice.

Noms: ****ing Tidus x5
Steve prediction: ugh not againnn
Let's go with a 10%
 

GoodGrief741

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This noms update comes with a strong recommendation to watch Da 5 Bloods. If you got Netflix, you should definitely give it a watch.

Meowth x105
Dr. Eggman x103
[Rerate] Kratos x100
Zelda (BotW sequel) x95
[Rerate] Lip x95
D.Va x95
The Stretchers x95

100 - 51

Concept: Upgraded Spirit x90
Concept: Darksiders rep x80
Sackboy x80
Concept: Pokémon Mystery Dungeon content x76
Proto Man x75
Nate Adams x70
Moogle x70
Tidus x70
Red (Angry Birds) x70
Alex Mason x65
Fulgore x64
Lu Bu (Dynasty Warriors) x60
[Rerate] Frisk x55
Boss: Ender Dragon x55

50 - 25

Dwight Fairfield (Dead by Daylight) x50
Mii Costume: Jill Stingray x50
Concept: SNES-era Final Fantasy rep x50
Shuichi Saihara x50
Echo: Zeraora (Lucario) x45
Concept: Content from currently unreleased game (not Spirit Events) (as of May 17th 2020) x45
The Terrarian x45
Concept: A person of color x45
Echo: Dark Bowser (Bowser) x39
[Rerate] Captain Toad x38
Echo: Lord Fredrik (King K. Rool) x35
Stage: Bowser's Castle x35
Echo: Xion (Sora) x33
Gooigi x32
Concept: Second F-Zero rep x31
[Rerate] Saki Amamiya x30
Urbosa x30
Giygas x28
Concept: Assist Trophies added in updates x27
Sakura Shinguji x27
Rival Pokémon Trainer x25

Under 25

Concept: Returning stages x21
[Rerate] Nightmare x20
Jin Sakai x20
Concept: More ATs as one new item x20
Zeraora x15
Black Shadow x15
[Rerate] Paper Mario x15
Concept: No Spirit promotions x15
Wolf Link x15
Diablo (Diablo) x15
Concept: Dark Souls rep x15
[Rerate] Jin Kazama x10
[Rerate] Agumon x10
[Rerate] Monokuma x10
Gran/Djeeta x10
Lora and Jin x10
Otto Matic x10
The Avatar (Ultima) x10
Neptune (Hyperdimension Neptunia) x10
Concept: Bravely Default rep x10
Concept: Rocket League rep x10
[Rerate] Neku Sakuraba x10
[Rerate] Ezio x10
Chell x8
[Rerate] Professor Layton x8
Magolor x7
Boss: Rayquaza x7
Taranza x6
Concept: Darkstalkers rep x6
Sparky (Clash Royale) x5
Concept: Overwatch character x5
Asha (Wonder Boy) x5
Mii Costume: Hat Kid x5
Concept: Portal 2 rep x5
Breath of the Wild 2 Ganondorf x5
Tick (Brawl Stars) x5
King Graham x5
Concept: Fortnite character x5
[Rerate] Andy x5
Cooking Mama x5
[Rerate] Toxtricity x5
Jill (Drill Dozer) x5
[Rerate] Takamaru x5
Asuka (Senran Kagura) x5
Furret x5
Deku Scrub x5
Mii Costume: Edward Falcon x5
Concept: A LABO character x5
Cynthia x5
Concept: Bonus character x5
Concept: Fighter Pass Volume 2 is half Nintendo and half third party x5
John Marston x5
Austin the Butler (Gardenscapes) x5
Concept: No AT promotions x5
Concept: FP2 character comes with an Echo Fighter x5
Concept: Generic Zora x3
Three Mage Sisters x2
Concept: A Pokémon Trainer who fights x2
Concept: A fighter who uses all kicks x2
[Rerate] Metal Sonic x2
Concept: Generic Goron x2
Mii Costume: Jacket x2
Echo (Olimar) x1

Dr. Eggman flies past Kratos and lands on second place. D.Va and The Stretchers continue to duke it out, but Concept: Upgraded Spirit falls behind and out of the top seven. The two that remain are now tied with Zelda and Lip in a four-way battle for fourth place.

Boss: Ender Dragon flies past 50 noms.

Today's newcomers are a rerate of Ezio, with 10 noms, and the concepts No AT promotions and FP2 character comes with an Echo Fighter, each with 5.
 

Swamp Sensei

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I'M GONNA DO IT!



I'll go ahead and seriously rate stuff here for the first time in... how long?

Point being.

Diver boy and the split personality waifu!


Chance: 70%

I feel pretty good about Rex's chances for two main reasons. The first reason is that Sakurai expressed interest in the character as someone he would have included if there were more time. I know Sakurai's not picking the characters anymore, but it definitely proves that Rex is a character that has the credentials to be in Smash. Now that we have an ARMS character, who Sakurai also expressed an interest in, I feel things may be lining up for Rex. Xenoblade as a franchise is also one that Nintendo would love to promote, its getting a lot of attention recently and the new game that was made exclusively for Switch is so far the best selling entry in the series. I can easily see Nintendo putting Rex in for advertising purposes.

The second reason is that Rex, unlike a lot of other characters, has seen steady and constant popularity in requests. In the west, he's pretty popular and in the east he's among the most requested first party characters in general. As controversial as he is among certain members here, he's a popular character from a popular game.

Anime will probably get win, boys and girls!

Want: 90%

I really liked Xenoblade 2. I think its an excellent game and there's a lot to love about its characters. Is it perfect? No. But I gladly put at least 100 hours into it. I find the criticisms of Rex to be mostly exaggeration or misunderstandings of the character, even if I do think his diving suit looks a tad dumb. He'd be super fun to play and I am frothing at the possibilities of his moveset.

Basically I'm game! Put him in already.

Steve Chance Prediction: 27%

Nominate Half First Party / Half Third Party Pass x 5
 
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