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If you're seriously going to try to claim Sora, of all characters, has no personality, it probably means you should have abstained, because its clear you know absolutely nothing about the character.
SMH he has more personality than at theabsolute worst half the roster, if he got in he'd probably be in the Top 10 of most developed characters in the game.
Generic anime protagonist.
The difference is that Pac-Man or Donkey Kong (and many others) never tried to implement good writing in their stories. Kingdom Hearts did and it's terrible.
But there's still nothing with liking a generic anime protagonist, we all love some of them
You can only use 5 nominations a day unless you earn more through correct prediction scores. Additionally, nominations for characters that have been disconfirmed via Assist Trophies and Pokeball summons will not be counted.
With the way Square Enix handles crossovers, it leads me to believe they mainly value putting their characters in crossovers in 3 specific ways. 1 obviously being where it's their biggest icons in a huge game (Cloud and Hero in Smash), another from a recent game that is considerably successful to SE and would be easier to promote off of its current popularity (2B in Soulcalibur VI), and the other being if they happen to develop the game themselves (Black Mage, Moogle, and Cactuar in that 1 Mario basketball game for the DS). Unfortunately, Geno is not in any of those categories for SquareEnix to approve putting him in Smash as a Fighter since they don't seem to value the 1-off characters they own.
Geno having his own spirit battle in WoL would obviously be a huge indicator that he isn't going to be a fighter, let alone a DLC fighter. It was probably the best that Sakurai could do to get him into Smash in some sort of fashion.
Want: 13%
I've never played Super Mario RPG, so Geno will always be a mystery to me as to when and how he got such a vocal cult following. Was it because Sakurai once said in an interview he considered putting Geno in Brawl or did it stem back all the way to Melee? No matter what the answer actually is, it's not going to make me want him in Smash as a DLC character. I just don't see Geno as an exciting character to put in the Fighter Pass at all, and If he was ever going to be playable, he's better off as a fighter in the base game rather than being left off to be sold as DLC like a lot of other characters that are from a Nintendo game but are owned by the devs of said game (Lana and Volga from Hyrule Warriors for example). -------------------------------- Sakurai named his development team off of this guy
Chance: 1%
1 of the things I do think about when it comes to Nintendo having a say in the matter of DLC is that the current characters and franchises in the Fighter Pass look like they could be in the next Smash game(s) for years to come. While I think Joker and Banjo-Kazooie would certainly be in the next Smash game, I can't say the same for Hero currently since Square Enix owns his series and hasn't been showcased/released as of the time I'm posting this, but at least with Dragon Quest, Nintendo holds a lot of high praise to that franchise and would certainly want Sakurai to bring them back to the next Smash game if they could. I don't see Nintendo looking at Kingdom Hearts as a franchise that could potentially be in the next Smash game, and it's a potential factor to why they wouldn't want to go to both Disney and SE to bring Sora to Smash, despite the amount of fan demand there is for him.
Want: 20%
I'm pretty lukewarm on Sora, but there's no doubt in my mind that putting him in Smash would be a huge deal. With that being said, if Sora was in Ultimate, he'd easily be the first character I look at and immediately say he's going on the chopping block whenever the next Smash game comes around, and it's this uncertainty of seeing him in the next Smash game what makes me hesitant to see Sora become a Fighter. I understand that the likelihood of bringing back over 75+ characters to Smash looks rather unrealistic and impractical, but I have a huge preference for characters that look like they'll be in the next Smash game to be in the Fighter Pass. Sora just isn't 1 of them, but I will say the amount of happy people seeing Sora in Smash would be cool. -------------------------------- Predictions:
Ryu Hayabusa: 40%
Chosen Undead: 21% -------------------------------- Noms: Cooking Mama x5
Chance: 0.1%. I'm not saying this just because of his Spirit. I'm not saying this just because of Hero. I'm not just saying this because of Piranha Plant. I'm saying this because of the three combined, and the fact that the Mii Costume of Geno's from last time is all but certainly coming back. I could maybe see a second Squeenix character, but... feel like if any company is going to double dip for DLC, it's Capcom, then SEGA (if Mii Costume Theory is true, and Namco still doesn't get another character, one of these two is double dipping), then nobody. And even then, I'm still certain it won't be Geno. (And, kinda Banjo filled the niche Geno did in regards to demographics. That's not a good sign.)
Want: Not really anymore. I can only see ONE possible double dip, only if Mii Theory is true. He'd still be an amazing inclusion, but now I'm greedy and am going all in on Arle, so, sorry Geno. 60%. But his game is good. At least we have Legacy XP to fall back on (that moveset is literally perfect).
Get up on the hydra's back!
Chance: I'm gonna say it. I've had this feeling for some time. It's an outright 0%. This has nothing to do with Hero (well part of it does), and everything to do with one infamous Mouse that is the reason I believe he will never get in. I cannot, literally cannot see a world where Disney lets Sakurai put in Sora without going "hey, instead of that relative no-name Sora, why not go for Mickey Mouse, one of the most popular characters ever?" Sak says "すみません、できません..." or something to that effect, and that's that. Beyond that, though, there is Hero, there is the possibility of a Sora Mii Costume on the way. And he has competition, unbeatable competition, with Lara Croft, who has the legacy of casual gamers, the love of hardcore gamers, and would be nowhere near as much of a rights hassle. Sora is one of those characters who I'll believe it when I see it, but for now... I'm sorry, I just don't see it.
Want: Eating my words wouldn't be half bad here, but I don't particularly care for Kingdom Hearts. It's more of a case of, "people around the world will be going OH MY GOD! SORA! I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS FOR YEARS! OH MY GOD!" and I'd love to see that happen. 40%, for much of the same reasons as Geno, though my lack of care of Kingdom Hearts outweighs the fact that Sora would be introduced to a Smash engine for the fir-oh, wait, isn't he in SSF2? Second time.
Sunflower x 5, Ryu will have a good chance at around 13.50% while Chosen Undead will be poorly treated for not being Tales and Tekken. 9.28%.
Chance 0 - He's done. He's a 3rd party spirit that feels a lot like just throwing his fans a bone for being loyal and wanting him in the game for so long. But it's pretty clear he's not getting in now. Really, I think Geno only getting a spirit means he's not just getting left out here, but his chances for future games aren't great either. I'll talk about that more when it's time though. Right now though he's a spirit in a game where a different SE character is already DLC. It's done
Want 50 - Very neutral on him since I have no history with Super Mario RPG even though I think he deserves a spot based on how his game was kinda the inspiration for Paper Mario(Or I think, can't remember where I heard that). Really though Nintendo, if you're not going to put him in Smash at least stick him in Mario Party, Mario Kart, or any of the Mario Sports games. While it's not Smash it seems like Geno fans would still really enjoy that(and Captain Falcon for Mario Kart too, but once again thats a completely different story)
Sora
Chance 0 - Yeah, even though this would be really cool I don't see it happening. We already know how hard SE is to work with so really don't think that we're going to see 2 characters from them in this DLC. I feel like there's a lot of reasons as to why he could or should be included, but SE getting 2 characters feels unlikely.
Want 80 - Never played a Kingdom Hearts game, but Sora would feel like a huge deal, and that's the type of characters I want in as DLC.
He's a spirit, we already have a Mario DLC character, and we already have a Squeenix DLC character, with Geno most likely coming as a Mii Costume when Hero releases soon. (Probably in a couple of days thanks to maintenance schedule leaks.) After his chances got buried a while ago, I was initially supporting him, but jumped off the hype train after November. Hoping he still gets in though, as he seems interesting.
Sora the Explorer
Chance: 0.5%
Want: 50%
The thing that killed his chances is Hero taking the Squeenix slot. Combined with the fact that he's also owned by Disney didn't help him in the first place, as rights and licensing would be a living hell. The question of whether or not Mickey and friends would appear in his moveset remains unanswered, but it makes more sense to leave them out, since this is for video game characters only. NORMALLY I would've given Sora a 60-70% for being an interesting and highly requested character within the Smash community, but recently my score was lowered for something that wasn't Sora or his fans' fault. It's Disney. I've lost some respect for the company due to recent events. (Because this is Smashboards, I won't go into detail for one example due to people being over sensitive and potentially flaming me for it.) One example that I will mention however is Disney denying the wishes of a grieving father to put Spider-Man on his dead son's tombstone. They left a pretty poor defense which showed they cared a lot more about money. It was pretty sad. It is unrelated and kind of stupid, but the lowered want score for Sora is most likely temporary as long as Disney stops being scummy. I think he is a cool character, with a lot of moveset potential and a devoted fanbase. If he did get in despite the recent events, I would still be happy for his fans.
That was random and off topic, but whatever. We're all allowed to have petty reasons to lower a want score every now and then.
Ryu Hayabusa: 46.83%
Chosen Undead: 12.37% (Better choice than Solaire)
Chance: 1%
He originates from a video game. That's his one benefit.
His shortcomings? Beign a major playable character in only 1 game, with the only other non-mii appereance beign a Superstar cameo (which wasn't even carried over to the remake i might add) he appears as a spirit (a death sentence in my eyes, ESPECIALLY if you are third party) owned by Square Enix, and unlike Cloud, Hero and the guy below it's questionable if they would bother to do all this negotiations for a character whose sole reason for inclusion would be because a passionate yet niche group demanding him. Yes, that was the case with K.Rool, Mega Man, Banjo & Kazooie, Ridley and Little Mac, but all of those characters have far more merit of their own once you put their fan demand aside, something that Geno does not have.
Even if we take the closest analogue, K.Rool (a character who fell into irrelevance after Sluggers) he was the main bad guy of basically every pre-Returns game aside from Jungle Beat, and had far less competition when it came to other DKC choices when it came to fan demand or beign an important character within' the series (only Dixie was a notable candidate, and even she suffered from lower demand and bad timing) even if we lived in a world where Square Enix kept making sequels for Mario RPG, it's possible Geno would have been a one-off (after all his arc concluded pretty nicely in SMRPG) and like most other JRPGs, a new cast of original characters would have accompanied Mario, Peach and Bowser (Paper Mario introduces different parthners for each new installment, for example) not only that, but Geno has feral competition with Waluigi (whose demand is NOT slowing down) Captain Toad/Toad (Toad is seen as many as the most glaring omission from Smash, and the Captain is seen as a viable representation seeing how he actually starred in his own game that was ported to the Switch) and Paper Mario (Paper Jam fully established him as his own quirky counterpart of the vanilla Mario, plus the series is still going, even if it unfortunately has abandoned the formular that made the series memorable)
Really fan demand is all he has going for. Sakurai saying he liked him doesn't mean much, seeing how he dind't bother to get him for Brawl (understandable) Smash 4 base and DLC (Cloud took prioirity) or Base Ultimate. Ultimate's DLC was the final nail with the Fighter's Pass with Hero. Not only is it looking more and more unlikely for already-represented franchises to be part of the FP (unless they do a Super Smash Bros X Super Mario RPG specifcally, but even that is unlikely) and if the Mii Costumes with Joker are any indication, we will likely see the return of the Geno Mii Costume alongside Hero.
It sucks to see him go from a decent candidate for Smash Switch, only for him to face the reality of the situation as the game approached the release day, and now we will see the final result.
Want: 35%
If im honest, with everything i said about him, it should sound as if i hate the little guy. Truth is...............i don't. I played SMRPG, great game, fun and charming, and Geno is a pretty fun and interesing character that is outisde of the usual Mario tropes you see every day. However he is not prioirity for me. Waluigi is my top choice for the next Mario character, and if it wasn't by the current state of the PM series i would gladly take Paper Mario over him.
The reason i would be okay with him is because he is one of the never-ever characters of Smash Speculation. After Ridley and K.Rool and Banjo, someone like Geno feels like it would already happened, but once i described his status it dawned on me why he's not in.
He's not priority for me, and im surprised that he has survived this long. He likely will for god knows how long, but i don't think im gonna lose my breath if he never shows up. If im honest i was shocked to see Sakurai even considered him and gave him a Mii Costume, but as Dixie (beign considered but scrapped) and Ashley (beign demanded but rejected) have shown, it may not mean much in the end. Sorry fella.
Is Kairi single?
Chance: 3%
Like Diddy Kong was seen as a Rare character before the Rare Buyout, Sora is in Spirit (heh) a Square character. He has all the hallmarks of one, and as such i don't see him as likely after Hero got in as the Major Square DLC ambassador. However, he is actually owned by Disney. That.......actually makes things worse.
Look, Sakurai has dealt with Square Enix (TWICE) and Konami, but we are not talking about Disney Interactive here (R.I.P) we are talking about The Walt Disney Company, a large powerful entity and one of the largest media companies on the planet (if companies had a tier list, Disney MUST be nerfed immediately) so i don't see Disney beign as friendly to Sakurai as Capcom, Konami, Sega, Square or even potential collaborators like Activision, Bathesda, Koei Tecmo and Level 5 because those are gaming companies that understand the power, influence, legacy and honor Nintendo and Masahiro Sakurai hold in their hands. Disney however, may see them as "beneath them", and therefore may not take them as seriously.
......then again Disney had no issue with Thanos Default Dancing in Fortnite and those Mickey Mouse games on the Genesis Mini (you know? Mickey Mouse? their most protected character?) so maybe they may be willing to play ball. Of course if FF and DQ are any indication, KH's representation will be limited, so no Mickey, Donald, Goody, Pluto, hell maybe not even Riku, Kairi (awwww.....) Roxas, Namine (godammit) ect, as spirits. Then there's the possibility of Haley Joel Osment not represing Sora due to him possibly beign a union voice actor, so we may have to stick to Sora beign full weeb on this one.
This is either a "multiple companies have to come to a mutual agreement" situation, or a "a large company that is VERY hard to deal with" situation.
Want: 25%
I enjoy Kindom Hearts......well the one 3DS game that i actually played and beat. I do not enjoy the convoluted plot (IS THERE ANY OTHER XEHANORT I SHOULD KNOW ABOUT?!) that hinders the characters and game for the most part, but it reminds of a time when i saw Disney as this company full of charming animated movies like Emperor's New Groove and the Sword and the Stone and cartoons like Duck Tales and Recess as opposed to beign this massive pc entity that is nothing but the Killer Queen of companies (destroys any franchise that it touches but im not gonna go into detail because that is its own massive can of worms) full of morons and asshats that make ****ty Live Action adaptations and at the rate they are going there are gonna be more ****ty Live Actions than there are Xehanorts, but im getting off track here.
However, while i do prefer Sora to some of the other potential 3rd Parties (inlcudin those already in Smash like Bayo and Joker) im not full into him to be hyped. He would be like Cloud, where the fact that he is in the game is more hype than the attatchement i have towards the character.
Plus, im weary of Dinsey even apporaching Smash in any form or capacity. Sora is the ONLY thing i would be okay coming from Disney.
The other part of the reason as to why this rating is so low is because after FF and presumably DQ, i would not be excited for KH in Smash if they are gonna be so thin in terms of content. Like i know Shimomura is a Ult Composer, but Uematsu composed Brawl's theme and yet they could not bother to at least give us One Winged Angel, so im not im expecting a lot of music from KH should it come to Smash. At least with Geno all i care is about the playable character, while for Sora it would be dissapointed if they cheaped out in all the other areas.
I would rather have a character who i have more of a personal attachtment with, and one whose representation would be allowed to be much larger (as in, Mega Man or Castlevania levels of large, that would be sweet as ****)
Noms: Concept: A character outside of the Fighter's Pass X5
I'm pretty certain that Spirits deconfirm. At least for this round of DLC. And there's already a character on the way from the company that owns him. And even if we were to get another Square-Enix character, he'd be facing major competition. I think he is one of the least likely popular choices (within the hardcore Smash fanbase) to be honest.
Want: 1%
I'd be really happy for his fans, any left have waited a long time. But I personally think Geno is a rather poor choice. I mean no ill will toward his fans, but the difference in Geno's prominence compared to the third-party icons already in Smash is just absolutely massive. Night and day.
While Bayonetta or Banjo & Kazooie may not be as famous as Sonic or Pac-Man, they are at least the undisputed main characters of their own games. Geno is an important character in SMRPG but ultimately, if a player wanted to, they could choose to barely even use him.
=====
Sora
Chances: Abstain
I honestly don't know if Square-Enix being the developers for Kingdom Hearts impacts Sora's chances in the Fighter's Pass the same way it might for a character who is actually owned by SE. My gut tells me that it honestly doesn't but I just can't commit to a guess.
Want: 75%
I've yet to play a game in the series after KH2, but I have very fond memories of playing KH1&2.
Sora himself is rather obnoxious, but those first two games are damn good fun. (and maybe the third too, haven't played it)
I also want to add that I think the idea of Sora potentially "opening up the floodgates" to non-videogame characters is just silly.
Firstly, he's a videogame character, there is no disputing this. Secondly, it's a classic slippery slope fallacy. Even if Donald and Goofy were to be present in his Final Smash or something, (and I'd imagine they wouldn't due to $$$) it would clearly be a special case like ROB or Dr. Kawashima.
I just find the whole train of thought to be completely unrealistic. Sora wouldn't lead to Shrek or Goku.
Sora
Chance: 25%
While it is true that Kishimoto denied any future plans with Sora in that way, there is still a chance that he was lying because he was under NDA. And after what happened with Banjo (with the composer denying any knowledge of Banjo's inclusion up until the reveal) along with the fact that he was asked the question in person, the argument now has some weight to it. It's still his word over my speculation however. There is another theory I've got on my mind which increases Sora's chances to 25% as far as I'm concerned, but I don't have the time to write it now so I'll post it in edit.
==EDIT==
So, my theory.
Now that we have 3 DLC characters, we can now seriously find a link that connects them together. With Nintendo choosing the characters this time around, I believe that a sure fire way to predict who will be joining next is by looking at companies who have recently partnered up or released (or plan to release) games exclusively to the Switch. Examples being Atlus and their newest SMT game being exclusive to the Switch, as well as the re-release/ port of TMS #FE. Square Enix and their timed exclusive of Octopath traveler, the DQ 11 definitive edition, and multiple Final Fantasy releases on the Switch. And last but not least, Microsoft, who have allowed Cuphead and the Minecraft: Bedrock edition on the Switch (neither of which are on the PS4 mind you) and allows cross play between Switch owners and Xbox owners. Needless to say, these character inclusions seem to be added as an act of good will towards the companies they plan to do business with. What does this have to do with Sora's chances you ask? Well the reason is very obvious: Disney has met these criteria as well. For starters, Disney has partnered up with Nintendo for this project: https://amp.businessinsider.com/nintendo-disney-switch-show-2018-6
Has released Disney Tsun-Tsun exclusively to the Switch, AND is releasing Marvel Ultimate Alliance exclusively to the Switch as well. The signs are all there for Disney to have a character included into Smash bros., and the clearest choice here is Sora. And I can say with confidence that they would choose Sora over characters like Mickey thanks to Banjo being chosen over characters like Mastercheif and Minecraft Steve. Now this theory isn't fully developed since I'm still looking into other companies who fit this criteria as well, but it's still something that I think shows promise for Sora's chances.
==Edit over==
Want: 100%
My absolute #1 pick.
Geno:
Chance: 1%
Yeah, Hero all but killed his chances.
Want: 50%
I'm rooting for his fanbase more then I am the character. I feel like they deserve the inclusion at this point.
I really don't like putting a number attached to the likelihood of a character when I have no idea if they will happen or not as numbers and percentages are supposed to be more of a finite and grounded thing, but I'm beating my Bergs aside and addressing this as percentages of personal probability rather than actual probability.
Geno Grants Your Wish!
Chance: 100%
So I have the opinion that any character who was originally designed for a video game and has a moderate amount of support has a chance. This is because Sakurai can pretty much get whoever he wants in the game and he has been forced to listen more and more to fan demand over the years. That said, let me get into the reasons specifically for Geno.
Welp, there is a big ass list here~
Sakurai recognized the fanbase in an interview and pointed out how requested he was.
Sakurai mentioned wanting to make him a character because of how unique he was in terms of design.
Nintendo and other big events have been bringing up Geno and SMRPG recently when it was silent since 2003.
So far the Fighter's Pass has been all third-party, and Geno is the most first-party of third-party.
Spirits have never been officially announced to disconfirm characters: this is just another fan-rule, and fan-rules are made to be broken.
Geno has ranked high on previous official Nintendo polls and got enough votes to be recognized by Sakurai with a Mii Costume.
Geno has massive fan demand, being the most active newcomer subthread on this site and placing high on unofficial polls
Geno is one of the few characters left from the Brawl days that isn't an AT or playable, the only others being Rayman and Lloyd.
Ultimate has been hyper-focused on heavily-demanded character, both base and through DLC thus far.
Geno would please both Western and Eastern audiences, as he is beloved by both the US and Japan.
SMRPG was one of the few games to be put on the SNES Classic, which means Nintendo values the game.
Square has been on a roll with recent ports and remakes and new games, and they are bringing both old and new titles to the Switch, mainly within the JRPG genre. Guess what game is both an old IP, is a JRPG, and has Nintendo characters in it? Guess what game would also be awesome to have a sequel or remake of?
Ultimate came out early in the Switch's lifespan, and to think that Nintendo wouldn't give us more DLC for it at some point would be crazy. The money is there to be had and it doesn't matter what Sakurai thinks: if Nintendo wants that money, they will have it.
Square also likes there money, and would have no issue having even more of there characters in the game for them to make profit from. Now that both Cloud and The DQ Crew are in Smash, the only big names they would have are Sora, Geno, and maybe Crono as the other franchises have been represented.
There are probably more things to put on this list, but I think this is good enough.
Want:
You can call me crazy. You can call me a mega-fan or a super-fan. You can call me unrealistic and say I'm dreaming and that I should just give up and go home.
BUT THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN STOP ME! NO ONE CAN TAKE AWAY MY HYPE AND MY SPIRIT!
I played SMRPG when I was young and dumb and I loved the game for as far as I could get (Return to Bowser's Keep, which has a mix of trivia, Survival Mode levels of multiple fights, and puzzles that was just too much for me then). SMRPG was a game I treasured and got to enjoy as a young kid since I didn't have a N64 right when they came out. I loved Geno and Mallow and Booster and all the wacky zany characters in the game, even the bosses had personality! Time passed and it became a distant memory but I was able to play it again when I visited my mom for summer vacation. She kept the SNES all those years because she loves playing 'old-school Mario.' So at night I would play SMRPG until the crack of dawn and I fell in love with the game all over again. It dawned on me that no one ever talked about this game and I was baffled as to why because it was amazing! I was so moved that I even used a VHS to record moments in the game I thought were important (Yoshi Race, all the Special Moves of characters, Toadofsky, etc.) because at the time YouTube had just begun to exist. I was determined to show that tape to people so they would understand how awesome SMRPG was, and I was able to show it to some friends before the tape fell into the void somewhere.
I remember all the Brawl talk, and how I wanted Geno to make it into Brawl. God, I remember the Smash Bros Dojo and looking up the website in school to make sure I didn't miss a single announcement for a character. I remember the old renders people made that tricked us when we were younger, and I remember seeing Sonic and thinking that Geno could totally happen now!
But he didn't.
Then I remember the WiiU/3DS phase in which I paid attention to YT to see all the announcements and stuff but I never really chatted on forums about it much anymore. I remember being the only person who was against the Gematsu Leak because "it's not official until Nintendo reveals it", a motto I still stick to today. I remember thinking Duck Hunt Dog and a blonde kid nobody knew had no chance, and it still happened. So much time had passed that by the time the Ballot showed up, Geno was a distant memory in my head. There were so many characters like Sora and Waluigi and Shovel Knight that I wasn't sure who to vote for, but I settled on Waluigi. I'll never forget that moment when I was about to submit my vote and I stopped because I felt like I was forgetting something...no, someone. It hit me like a Timed-Hit Geno Whirl, and I quickly changed my vote to be for Geno, almost as fast as Geno himself!
I remember when the Mii Costume happened. So many people were angry, and yet I was so happy they just acknowledged Geno's existence after roughly 12 years.
But he still wasn't playable.
I remember when tensions were high in early 2018. There was talk about Smash, as there always is, but people couldn't decide on whether we would get a new game this fast or not. Then at the end of the March Direct we were all blown the **** back when Inkling got intimidated by the entity that is "Flash Mothers" and everyone lost their collective ****. I remember how Ridley defied all the odds after all these years, and how right behind him was "King Club" himself. Simon Belmont happened. Daisy happened. Chrom happened. Everyone was getting who they had asked for for so long, Geno would totally be there too! I remember the Grinch Leak and how everyone was so sure it was real and I was on the side that it was likely fake but, once again, Nintendo's say was all that mattered. I remember being torn apart and harassed and insulted in PapaGeno's Discord over not believing the leak while inside I really wanted it to be true because of how happy it would make not only myself but so many others...and then I remember all the hate Nintendo got because people fooled themselves. I remember thinking Mario on screen and walking up to PP was going to be for Geno, but when it wasn't I could do nothing but laugh. "That's our Sakurai!" I sputtered out between gasps of laughter. I remember when everyone else thought Smash would have nothing to show at the game awards and I was sure we would get the first DLC teaser, and then Joker came out and stole the show.
But Geno still wasn't playable.
AND YET I STILL HOLD MY FAITH IN SAKURAI!
Ultimate has been nothing short of fulfilling fan demand in nearly every step that has been taken and I am positive Geno will finally make his debut in Smash Ultimate! It may not be in the FP, and it may not even be soon, but I have every ounce of confidence that Sakurai can and will make it happen, Captain, and nothing anyone says will take that away from me. I don't care if his costume gets shown with Hero's gameplay reveal, I STILL won't give up!
I will root for our Blue Puppet Boi until the day I no longer draw breathe or the day he returns home from Star Road, whichever comes first! I want to blast people away with Geno Beam in Smash; I want an continuation his story and more into his backstory in either a new SMRPG or a deepened remake; I want to smash up against other drivers while I speed ahead with a Golden Shroom and hit a jump to have Geno look back and nod with crossed arms at his dust-eating competition in Mario Kart; I want to Geno Blast the enemy side of the court in Mario Tennis, or swiftly maneuver past the competition get a sick puppet dunk in a new Mario Hoops/Mario Sports Mix, or Geno Whirl crit the goalie to score a goal in Mario Strikers, or use Geno's amazing speed to blitz is foes and win gold in all forms in Mario & Sonic Olympics, or roll the dice and have a good time with my puppet boi and my friends in Mario Party.
Sure, call me delusional, but it ain't gonna stop me! Geno isn't some meme: he is an obscure and lovable puppet boi who is brash, cocky, loyal, determined, dedicated, and just a tad silly. He is proof of the miracles that happen when Square Enix and Nintendo work together on a game. He is the Warrior of the Star Road, and he is my only true pick for Smash Ultimate.
Thank for being here for my Ted Talk, XD.
Sora Unlocks a Path To Smash!
Chance: 100%
As I said before, I think any character birthed in a video game and that has a following has a chance to be in Smash. Sora is no exception, and frankly as a Geno fan, Sora scares me in the sense that he often times feels like another roadblock. Smash has Cloud and the DQ Crew, but Sora is a pretty big deal and I feel like he might get in before Geno would based off how big Kingdom Hearts is.
As for his points~
Sora is a big name and has a lot of public wish for his inclusion.
Kingdom Hearts 3 sold massively well and has DLC in the pipeline, so Square is aware that Sora is hot stuff at the moment.
He has a lot of skills and powers and magic to pull from, and his fighting style of being light and acrobatic with lots of aerial movement yet still combo-heavy but also very light and floaty himself could offer a really unique playstyle and moveset in Smash.
Nomura and Sakurai are good friends. Remember how Snake got in Brawl? Yeah.
While Nintendo/Sora Ltd would have to speak with Disney, it's mainly how Nomura feels that matters.
Disney is very lenient when it comes to the video game market as they are not as heavily invested in it. Also, Nintendo is in the power role here: since Disney doesn't have a good record in the gaming sphere (MvCI was a thing) Nintendo has more power over what they can and can't agree to. Nintendo is still a powerhouse of a company and having it be known that Sora didn't get into Smash because you wouldn't play ball? Oof.
I know there has been talk around interviews and stuff, but we need to remember that Square is a company who has lied before, other persons involved with Ultimate have either lied or concealed the truth already, and that only Nomura really matters in terms of Sora being in or not.
Want: Eh, like I said before, I'm not keen on numbers but...I guess 50% is the most honest answer I can give.
I also grew up with Kingdom Hearts, and it was a game that really impacted my life. I also grew up with Disney movies, and being able to fight alongside the Disney characters I grew to know and love was a crazy concept that dragged me in. Kingdom Hearts 2 is still probably up there for time I've spent into a game, either second or third as even though I beat the game I would jump in just to explore more areas and kill more heartless and be flashy while doing it. I even had self-challenge runs that I did for KH2 because of how much I enjoyed just playing through the game. I'm like the only one I know who likes the card battle system in Chain of Memories/RE: Chain. I fell in love with Roxas, Xion and Axel through 358/2 Days and cried at the end multiple times because of how unfair it was for them.
Then Nomura went off the deep end.
My first sign was Birth By Sleep, which I didn't get to play until this January. When it first came out I was excited until I heard it was on PSP. A combination of not having my own money, still being young, and having intensive Christian parents who thought video games were the devil. I saw a younger friend play it and he was trying to beat the optional boss who was absolutely insane. I didn't understand all the mechanic changes and it looked so different from the game I grew up with. Plus, another game that didn't focus on Sora? What the heck man?! Where is Kingdom Hearts 3?
Then late into the game I tried to play Dream Drop Distance, and I couldn't get past it's horrible game design. I got up to the Fantasia world and I just couldn't push through it anymore: the forced switching between characters was so jarring and being able to dance around with flowmotion and just body everything without really getting involved outside of bosses was just so boring for me. I really tried playing through it again since I have both collections on PS4 and I couldn't get past La Cite des Cloches because of the horrible mechanics. I was also really put off by how over-the-top the story was getting: Heartless and Nobodies, Hearts and Darkness was all good. Suddenly we have time-travel and dream travel and multiple Xehanorts? Jesus man, really? And still not the Sora we are used to...sigh.
Then I heard that the next game went even further back in the lore and I didn't even care to play: I just read up on what I thought was important on a wiki and moved on. Even so, I still had high hopes for KH3.
But as it turns out, that was a hot mess of a game. Horrible pacing, pointless worlds, clunky and slow dialogue, the potential of worlds left in the dust, uninspired boss battles, all the story shoved into the end of the game with barely enough to cover it all and important moments rushed for the sake of ending the game. There are so many others things wrong with that game but I don't want to get into it here. Essentially, my love for the series was destroyed the day I beat KH3. My love for the series lies in the early titles when the games took themselves less seriously and Nomura wasn't trying to master-craft a story in a room full of yes-men telling him every idea he had was good and things were still relatively simple.
...Even so though, during the Square Enix E3 Show, when they showed the DLC I still got hype on instinct, completely forgetting for a moment how ****ty of a game KH3 was and how it was nowhere near worth the wait. Somewhere deep inside me there must be a love for KH that will never go out...puke.
That and the combination of Sora likely having a cool playstyle and that other people really want him locks me at a 50%. I kinda want him...sort of, and others really want him, so that makes me want him a bit more. Like with Joker, Banjo-Kazooie, even the DQ Crew and all the other characters people root for.
I guess I give five recommendations to Goemon from Mystical Ninja.
MY BOI
Chance:50%: Okay, a bit high, but I am pretty sure we will get him as DLC. Honestly ForsakenM
has covered most of my bases here, but honestly, Square already gave Sakurai Geno's rights. I honestly think that the character is not that much of a stretch. Especially as a bonus character for the fans. This just makes WAY too much sense.
Want: OVER 9000!
This character is awesome. I supported him even before I played SMRPG because he looked like a Mario character that was an awesome badass. I mean he literally CAN TURN INTO A CANNON! How is this not badass? and he has so much moves at potential. and after playing the Mario RPG's, anyone at Nintendo actually acknowledging them as games and not as cashgrabs would be wonderful. I just want these games to get some love, and Geno is the best way to start. Also gun arm.
abstaining on Sora. because I literally have NO idea what his chances are.
Nominations:
Blaze x3, Specter Knight x2
Gotta say this discussion is interesting. Not going to rate but will post my thoughts on it.
Geno, the one with an unpronounceable name.
Geno is an interesting character... mostly due to its legal status and popularity. He was one of the og characters created for SMRPG, a major collaboration between Squaresoft (now Square Enix) and Nintendo. The game was the first Mario title that's an RPG and is one of the first playable appearances of Bowser. Moveset-wise he really doesn't has any issues as he would be a long-range character with a lot of gun/arm cannon/beam options. As his spirit appearance implies, he is a Mario character although owned by a different company. This is a double-bladed sword for two reasons:
On a positive note, he belongs to the best-selling videogame franchise in the world, the Mario franchise, which is pretty much the Mickey Mouse of videogames which is something that helped create awareness of him
On a negative note, he belongs to a series with loads and loads of iconic characters and mooks (if you like them or not that is not the question). So there's little to no incentive for Nintendo to try and get him outside occasional cameos
While I cannot speak for how he became so popular with the fandom, this allowed him to be recognized by Sakurai during the Sm4sh DLC and being added as a Mii costume. And while I dunno how well his popularity will help him in the long run, I don't really think he'll appear on the Fighter Pass due to it seemingly being focused on bringing characters from new franchises (as in new to smash) to the game. Plus, the appearance of the Hero from DQ might limit the chances of another character from SE getting in the game.
Overall he is a character that I don't really mind in the game, but is a character that I simply cannot bring myself to care a lot nowadays that I have played a lot more RPGs and I feel that a lot other protagonists could bring new worlds and experiences to Smash. In addition, I'm more interested in getting content from other SE properties that I played across the years that I just like more. I would love to have characters like Adam Jensen, Lara Croft, Terra, Sora, Crono and so on more than Geno. It doesn't help much that on my recent replay of SMRPG, I felt more invested in Bowser and Mallow during the game.
Sora, the one with an unlosable key
Kingdom Hearts is a franchise that I was astonished the first time I heard about it, you mean that we're getting a crossover between Disney and Final Fantasy? that's insane. First screens got me hooked and the thing I'm most impressed with the franchise is how long it took from KH2 to get us to KH3. While not the biggest franchise from SE, its one that is relatively popular even with the Smash fandom so I can see that Sakurai and Nintendo being aware of it. Now that they attempt to get him because of his popularity, that's another story.
Sora is a character that I find it funny to pair with Geno due to being owned by Disney and only SE is getting involved in the discussions for approvals, so I don't think another SE character affects him more than the fact that the game heavily relies on non-videogame content which is something that could potentially open a rabbit hole in the series. While you can omit the worlds and Disney references quite a bit, I wouldn't really feel comfortable if the game cuts Goofy and Donald which are pretty much Sora's inseparable companions (and I doubt Duck Hunt would make a good replacement).
I like him quite a bit from playing through a few entries in the Kingdom Hearts series so I would love to have him in the game, his moveset presents him so agile and versatile that he would be a joy to play. But like I explained before, I feel that one of the aspects that keep making myself being on the fence with him is the rabbit hole that is presented by the addition of some of the content from his game. I would not lie in saying that I would be kinda sad if they removed these aspects that I see crucial for the character, as part of him is being with his friends.
On a final note, I really find it funny people fearing the addition of Disney among the companies involved in Smash due to how "evil" it is. Especially given that I wouldn't call saints to any of the current companies in the game, including Nintendo. And let's just say many of the potential new ones that could come aren't exactly better.
Hmmmm... Okay, so I see this popping up a lot, but is seeing Sora without Donald and Goofy really that hard to imagine? It's been bothering me for a while now since it's not like the've been joined at the hip, and there have even been 2 whole games without either of them being apart of your party. Not to mention the sections of gameplay in EVERY game starring Sora that has him duking it out without them helping. I dunno, this just feels like a tacked on statement to fuel the "This might open up the floodgates" argument. I understand that some people would genuinely like to see them together at all times, but I also know that nobody would really care if he did get into smash without him.
Hmmmm... Okay, so I see this popping up a lot, but is seeing Sora without Donald and Goofy really that hard to imagine? It's been bothering me for a while now since it's not like the've been joined at the hip, and there have even been 2 whole games without either of them being apart of your party. Not to mention the sections of gameplay in EVERY game starring Sora that has him duking it out without them helping. I dunno, this just feels like a tacked on statement to fuel the "This might open up the floodgates" argument. I understand that some people would genuinely like to see them together at all times, but I also know that nobody would really care if he did get into smash without him.
They're heavily associated with him, as that was the point of KH, a Disney/FF crossover. He's very infamous for having them as partners, despite it not being the only way to represent him. Besides that, Sakurai is getting Sora via Disney's licensing, so licensing his friends, whether it's Kairi or Mickey, goes through the same company.
And yeah, the floodgates wouldn't be opened. First, it's licensing the same company and not going through multiple different ones. Second, Sakurai was talking in context of "being playable". Any kind of non-game mentioning, cameo or otherwise, is not the same thing. If Sakurai doesn't want a non-game character playable, Mickey being an AT or even just a part of Sora's FS even(though admittedly the latter is pushing it in comparison) isn't going to make him any more eligible than he already was. That is, none at all officially.
Chances - 0%
- In my mind I don't think he has much of a shot. It doesn't help that two of Square's properties in Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest already have their characters in the game there are many characters in those two series and other Square franchises that would be way more recognizable outside of the Smash community. Plus we know how stingy Square can be, with only two tracks from Final Fantasy VII and who knows how many from the DQ series.
Want - 1%
- Honestly, I am not much of a Geno fan at all. If he gets in, I'll be happy for the fans for sure. I don't understand how Geno became one of the more talked about characters in Smash speculation. He was in mainly one game back over 20 years ago in which he did play a prominent role and that's about it. He had that cameo in Superstar Saga which was nice to see. He has a cool design and some neat abilities that is to be sure. I want to see him more featured in some Mario spinoff games then maybe he'll have more of a chance we'll see. I'd rather get Waluigi and Toad in first before Geno plus there are more important Nintendo characters like Dixie too. If Geno was such an important character to Nintendo and/or Square, then we would see him be more promoted across the spectrum. Plus I didn't understand how people could compare Geno to huge juggernauts in K. Rool, Ridley, and Banjo & Kazooie when they are prominent characters in their own series. If Sakurai never talked about Geno, then I don't think his fanbase would be as big as it is today.
Honestly I'm laughing at all these 'ooo evil Disney' comments. Y'all should be grateful that a company like Disney rules in movies, when over here in the videogame industry we have chumps like EA.
Lloyd Irving
47.83% Chance, 54.00% Want
Winner of predictions was Sid-cada
with 49.35%
Last time we rated him he got 50.92% Chance and 53.37% Want. Nearly nothing's changed for Lloyd.
Yuri Lowell
28.21% Chance, 46.21% Want
Winner of predictions was Neosonic97
with 30.00%. Hey, you got your character! Good for you.
Last time we rated him he got 17.25% Chance and 32.06% Want. Familiarity increased for him, both because of increased speculation about Bandai Namco characters since E3 and (hopefully) because of Vesperia's rerelease.
Rayman
8.15% Chance, 64.03% Want
Winner of predictions was waddledeeonredyoshi
with 7.39%
Last time we rated him he got 36.86% Chance and 59.88% Want. This was pre-Joker and might have been before finding his Spirit, but it would appear that Reggie's statements at TGA hurt his perceived chances. As for the increase in Want, it might be due to people who want mascot-like characters latching on to him with how grim it looks for first party characters with those characteristics.
Of note, it was an incredibly polarizing day: to some, him being a third party Spirit was even more damning than a first party one because of the extra licensing required; to others, being a third party means he's still in line with the direction of the Fighter Pass. It's worth noting than even first parties Dixie Kong and Bandana Dee scored higher than him.
Ezio
13.11% Chance, 27.96% Want
Winner of predictions was Icedragonadam
with 12.44%
Last time we rated him he got 22.18% Chance and 42.44% Want. This time around a lot fewer AC fans showed up and a lot more haters did (I hate the connotations of that term, what I mean is simply people who dislike the franchise).
Funnily enough, neither Ubisoft character appeared to be helped by Banjo opening the doors to Western characters like Doomguy was.
Honestly I'm laughing at all these 'ooo evil Disney' comments. Y'all should be grateful that a company like Disney rules in movies, when over here in the videogame industry we have chumps like EA.
Off topicI know, but as someone who talks a lot about Marvel movies and generally likes Disney's output for the most part, their dominance over media is getting a little bit terrifying. Like you can say that the big third party devs in gaming put out bad content, but it's pretty obvious that a lot of people who don't like their games don't buy their games.
Now imagine if Disney didn't have a base level competence and every big budget movie they released was at the quality level of an EA and Activision game. And those were the ONLY movies that got promotion and did well financially so everyone started copying them.
The only reason people aren't more annoyed about it is because Disney generally put out movies that are good. Which is scary to think that we're happy to let corporations dominate our pop culture as long as they put out things we enjoy (and I know I'm as guilty of that as the next person).
On topic: Being worried about fourth party characters is a genuine fear for a lot of people. Smash started as a Nintendo celebration, has expanded to being a celebration of video games with a heavy Nintendo focus. But if Mickey, Donald and Goofy get in the game, then it starts to dilute that. Sure certain characters that originated elsewhere have long and healthy video game careers. But as I've said in other threads, if Goku or Shrek get put in the game, then the conversation starts adding these huge cultural icons from all over media, and the fun of supporting that Nintendo character who had a memorable role in that one game begins to become diluted.
I'm not saying Sakurai would shift into the Mickey & Friends Smash Bros. Extravaganza. But just seeing that even with zero precedence certain "meme" characters still do super well, that if there is precedence it wouldn't be fun to be part of speculation anymore.
The only reason people aren't more annoyed about it is because Disney generally put out movies that are good. Which is scary to think that we're happy to let corporations dominate our pop culture as long as they put out things we enjoy (and I know I'm as guilty of that as the next person).
I don't find that scary, I find that to be capitalism working well. As long as it's the good movies that are successful, that will only breed more good movies.
I don't find that scary, I find that to be capitalism working well. As long as it's the good movies that are successful, that will only breed more good movies.
But capitalism needs competition to breed innovation. It's why I'm so happy Nintendo goes and does their own thing each generation rather than follow the same path as Sony and Microsoft. Disney buying Fox is not good for what it means for movies. The only good thing is that Marvel now gets F4 and X-Men back. But as a consumer it means we get less movies year, and more movies that are of a very particular type and genre. I love what Disney have done with Marvel and Star Wars and Pixar. But I also don't want that to be every movie that gets released.
You see it a lot here, Nintendo don't release games in franchises that a lot of people love, we want to see the "irrelevant" characters put into Smash. But they don't think they'll make money so we won't get them. Instead we get the core franchises and maybe 1 or 2 new interesting IP a generation. But we're long gone from the NES days where pretty much new game was the birth of a franchise, and that's sad.
But that's me, I place over originality and bold decisions over making something that is pretty good to great repeatedly because they know it will be successful.
Generic anime protagonist.
The difference is that Pac-Man or Donkey Kong (and many others) never tried to implement good writing in their stories. Kingdom Hearts did and it's terrible.
But there's still nothing with liking a generic anime protagonist, we all love some of them
Why the **** do people keep bringing up "character" a certain possible fighter has in there own game as an actual example for why or why not a character should become a fighter? Smash is a FIGHTING game not a STORY game therefore NO ONE has a character to speak of in the games. So that argument is nonsensical stop using that as proof of anything, cause it's not. What actually matters is whether or not said character would be fun to play and if they'd have a possible kit.
I'm gonna jump back in and say that I can see Sora getting in without any Disney representation. As previously mentioned by other people here, Sora has been by himself numerous times and has carried the narrative, action, and charm by himself. With that said however, the point of Kingdom Hearts is that it is a Final Fantasy/Disney crossover. And we all know that Sakurai likes to make the characters resemble their franchises as much as possible. You can have Sora without any Disney content, but would that really be Kingdom Hearts?
As mentioned in my rating, even having someone like Mickey in Sora's final smash might (keyword: might) open the floodgates. If a 4th party character is allowed in a final smash or something like in the background of a stage or in a taunt, how much representation could they get until Sakurai knows when to stop? Ultimately it is up to him and while I don't think he would allow any 4th party characters to become playable, if the 4th party content is substantial enough it might start to dilute the charm of Smash as a video game celebration.
Maybe I'm just thinking too much, after all Kingdom Hearts is the only video game franchise that I can think of that would have this problem and Sakurai could just make a one-time exception and allow a bunch of Disney content. For the record, none of this changes my rating.
This character is the ultimate Wild Card, because he has a lot of points both in favour and against him, mostly against him, which is the reason why I'm giving him a score so low.
The reason I don't want to give it a 0% despite the existence of the Spirit and Hero/Roto it's because of the nature of this game, and the fact Geno has been wanted for so long that it's quite incredible; it's almost as mad as the Banjo want despite being considered similarly impossible, and I'll give it some merit for that... but that is his only hope.
Want: 55%
I respect the idea of wanting a character that isn't exactly relevant just because you love it so much; I'm kind of similar position.
Otherwise I like the potential with it's moveset, when playing Mario RPG I always liked Geno's animations xD
_____
Sora:
Chance: 15%
Sora, the popular and relevant Square Pick, also the character with the weirdest copyrights to deal. Is possible to get Sora in Smash despite being a Disney character? Of course he's, he was designed to be a videogame character, and it's franchise was created as a videogame series despite being filled with movie content.
But oh well, Sora it's now the runner-up for a future Square Enix character after Hero's appearance... but how likely is that actually? Who knows, not a lot.
Want: 50%
He would be nice I guess
____
Predictions:
Ryu Hayabusa: 31.4%
Chosen Undead: Wait who is this guy? I need a franchise xD
Geno is perhaps the weirdest character to speculate on in Smash in my opinion. In many ways, what would normally be a character that would not get a second thought gets special treatment due to fan demand.
First, negatives about Geno. He is a spirit. While we have never gotten explicit confirmation that spirits deconfirm, with all available, they do not look good. So far make things seem like the fighters pass is going to be new franchises and third parties primarily. Granted, this is pure speculation. For all we know we could get a first party character next who is a spirit. But spirits as of now do not look good. Furthermore, the fact that Geno is a spirit is also something to note. They consciously chose to make a unique spirit battle for him and negotiate the rights for the spirit, while not putting him as playable. Finally, we have seen some of the Smash 4 DLC third party mii costumes show up with Joker. Should Geno's mii costume show up with Hero I feel that dips his likelyhood even further.
That being said, Geno has one thing that saves him: fan demand. Geno supporters, while not as numerous as pre Brawl, are still plentiful and loud. Sakurai himself noticed the support for Geno. Its why the spirit is there. It is why we got the Mii costume. The fact we have those shows that there is fan demand. Normally I would put fan demand as less important, but this is the Smash where fan demand seems to be on the mind. all have been stated to get in due to some form of fan demand. Now, some I buy into getting in through that less than others (namely Isabelle), but the point still stands. I would argue that fan demand for this game played a far larger role in selection than any past smash game. This likely is due to the ballot giving a direct vain for support. Some characters really benefit from that for dlc, particularly ones with very vocal fanbases, like Geno.
Overall, while not as likely as I pegged him for the base game, I feel Geno still has a solid shot, especially if a Season 2 happens.
100% Want
While I do not particularly feel strongly towards Geno, his fans deserve it. They have wanted Geno for so long I feel sympathetic to them. While sometimes they can be a bit...jaded, they are still one of the most loyal bases of support out there. For that, I have to say if we got Geno, I would be happy for them. It also helps that he would be fun to play as (he is a blast in Legacy XP).
Sora
oooh boy.
5% Chance
Yeah. Needless to say, I am not confident in Sora that much to be honest.
First, let me just talk about Disney. Disney is really haphazard when it comes to licensing their work. Sometimes, they will be so laissez-faire we get trite like Batlefront II by EA. Othertimes, they will be cutthroat about it, from preventing their characters appearing on a daycare mural to preventing a boy from having spiderman on his tombstone. As such, I would not be surprised if negotiating with Disney might be...difficult.
Honestly I'm laughing at all these 'ooo evil Disney' comments. Y'all should be grateful that a company like Disney rules in movies, when over here in the videogame industry we have chumps like EA.
While Disney may not be evil, they are protectionist at the very least. Look at the ****show of advertizing that was MvCI or their delisting of MvC3 dlc for a time.
Now granted, we do not know how Disney would play with Nintendo. Nintendo did let their characters appear in Wreck it Ralph, Disney has been a consistent supporter of the Switch, and Disney does have the same area of family friendly brand appeal that Nintendo operates in generally. At the same time, Disney also could be very apprehensive of working with Nintendo, given their current partnerships with Illumination in the film industry or with Universal in the parks industry. These are two of disney's biggest moneymakers alongside merchandising. As such, I could see Disney being wary of working with Nintendo.
Now it is possible to cherry pick the worst pieces of evidence for a company easily. I support Crash, but you can pick apart how Activision Blizzard can be a dumb company that makes very economically driven decisions. At the same time, Disney has a long track record of doing this. I feel that it would not be outlandish to say that Disney would be very difficult to negotiate with.
However, Sora does have his positives. Kingdom Hearts is a big franchise. A franchise cursed with poor writing and direction, but a big franchise. Arguably one of the biggest not in Smash. Sora does have a solid amount of demand too. While he is not the most requested here, you will often see Sora linger around in more casual speculation. Finally, KH3 is relatively recent, and I would not be surprised if it gets a switch port someday.
100% Want
I love Kingdom Hearts warts and all. A future project I am planning on working on would be a Kingdom Hearts abdriged of sorts (I already got scripts for 1 and CoM done, with rough outlines of II and BBS planned). I would need more of a team and some decent voice work, but I know some people who will and it would be fun to work on.
Kingdom Hearts is a fun franchise. 3 is a flawed game but still decent, it needs more content and the combat could have been better. DDD is a mistake. BBS is a flawed game that is easily broken. Days I love the character interactions and it is cute. I am very nostagic for 1 and CoM. KH2FM is one of my favorite games of all time.
I would find Sora fun, and I love KH. Not much more to say
Chance - 0.5% - A spirit is already in the game for a character from an already represented third party is typically a death sentence. While he does have an old fan base still around, in the end at this point I'm not certain that's enough for him.
Want - 35% - While he could be cool, I have no interest in him. There are plenty more characters I think of that are more deserving.
Sora
Chance - 1.5% - Sora's one of those "never ever" characters. Between having Disney in the mix and Square-enix already in as DLC, it's not likely at all. Add in complications like "how much Disney is too much?" and you have a recipe for disaster. While he definitely has major fan demand, I don't see it so late into the DLC cycle.
Want - 20% - Disney has me worried about what will happen. I'm fairly certain Nintendo will have to bust the bank just to get him in, for a character I'm not interested in. I'd rather not take the risk.
Why the **** do people keep bringing up "character" a certain possible fighter has in there own game as an actual example for why or why not a character should become a fighter? Smash is a FIGHTING game not a STORY game therefore NO ONE has a character to speak of in the games. So that argument is nonsensical stop using that as proof of anything, cause it's not. What actually matters is whether or not said character would be fun to play and if they'd have a possible kit.
What the **** are you even talking about ? I said I'm done with these characters. Where do I say in my posts that they shouldn't be in the game because they have no personality ? Start to actually read the messages before being overly sensitive, it's embarrassing.
I think both of their chanudes have been ruined by Dragon Quest but never say never. That said I don't think I'd be that excited about either of these characters not anymore at least.
To me, Geno has a TINY chance of making in, in Smash Ultimate. But he faces a lot of obstacles in his path.
One: He wasn't been in a Super Mario game, in over 23 years, besides a cameo in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga. And he doesn't have a lot of relevancy as of late, as far as I know.
Two: There are other Square Enix characters that the company might what put in instead if they get another one it. Like Sora, Lara Croft, Sephiroth, etc.
Three: While Geno would be a great fan pick for DLC, I think we already got that covered with Banjo&Kazooie, since they too are a fan picked, and have the relevancy too, since they were getting some merch before they where revel at E3.
Four: And this is the biggest obstacle for Geno: He's a Spirit in World of Light and with the Hero reveled as the rep for Square, we might get the Geno Mii costume back, and that could be the deathblow to him if it comes back. Also, his Spirit is a strong attack legend type, and to get rid of it to put Geno in, would cause the game to lose a Legend Spirit. the only way to keep it is if Geno gets in a new Super Mario game, and get a new model, but I don't think we'll see that in the future.
Want-65%
Despite not play SMRPG, I would like to see him in, cause his fans been wanting him for a long time, and he'd be the second to last requested fighting character for Smash to get in. (With Waluigi behind him.) I also started to support him months ago after seeing how much love his fans have for him, and I what them to be happy.
Sora
Chance-0%
I think is clear that Sora is not coming to Smash, due to the Hero taking the Square Enix spot, and we know a Third-Party company can only get one spot in DLC. There's also the fact we might not get more DLC after this pass.
Want-100%
Kingdom Hearts is part of my childhood and I would love to see in Sora get in, for I think he can bring a lot of interesting abilities to the series. And him getting in would be one of the biggest hype revels in Smash history!
Chance: 0%
If he wasn't dead when Nintendo picked the characters, he is now. He's a Spirit in the base game, which seem like a deconfirm at this point. Plus, we got the Hero, a much more iconic and marketable character. Geno doesn't stand a chance.
Want: 0%
I've never played Super Mario RPG, so I never got the hype. Even so, he doesn't exactly click with me. Maybe I'm just weird, but he seems... kinda boring, just showing up to help. Though like I said, I've never played the game.
Abstaining on Sora. While Disney has apparently stated that they'd be willing to cooperate, keep in mind they're trying to take over the world at the moment, so it may not be easy to negotiate with.
I'm miss(again) yesterday's rate their chance so I'm going to add them with today's rate.
yesterday's rate:
Rayman
Chane 25%:He is most requested Ubisoft character for but considering his franchise sales in japan sold really poorly makes him pretty unlikely.
Want 85%:I would love see him in smash since I really enjoy a few of his games(I haven't played all the rayman games) and his fight moves feels like it was designed for smash.
Ezio
Chance 30%:he's honestly a bit more likely since his franchise solid slightly better in japan than Rayman(That's not saying much) and has appeared on a few ds games but considering the Japanese sales is also poor and rayman having the more requests, Ezio isn't that likely.
Want 35%:I wouldn't mind seeing Ezio to battle the smash cast with his stealth style moveset(although snake kinda took that role).
today's rate:
Geno
Chance 0.5%: well Geno is the most requested Mario character for a long time but the thing is
1:he only appear in one game in about 23 years(that wasn't a cameo or Mii costume).
2:hero was picked up as the square-enix rep.
3:the fact that Geno is also a Mario character didn't help.
Want 20%:I be okay with Geno being in smash just to make the fans happy.
Sora
Chance 65%: He does have a decent chance at getting in his game is really popular worldwide and many people requested him but (again)given that hero was picked up as the square-enix rep and the fact he's also own by Disney would pretty much be a legal nightmare for Nintendo.
Want 60%: I haven't played enough Kingdom Hearts but I would like to see him in smash with cool keyblade moves and spells.
Whoa boy. OK, let me start with the one I think is the easier of the two.
Hitting a Sora spot
Chance: 2%
I'll give him slightly better odds here. While he's definitely a Square character, I suppose in some eyes you could ignore that and list him as Disney, if you really want to get him in the fighter pass with Hero already here. But that's just it, Hero is already here. It's not 100% set in stone, but it's very likely we won't get another Square character after showing one off. There's also the matter of Disney. Now, I don't think working with Disney is as big a deal as it's made out to be, but the fact of the matter is, Nintendo would have to consult with two companies for this one character. They'd have to make sure Sora is represented in a way that pleases them both. Other characters wouldn't have that issue. There's also the lack of KH3 on Switch. Not exactly that big an issue what with Joker, but it doesn't look appealing.
Want: 25%
Meh, he's got a big enough fan base I guess, and KH is a big series, but I personally don't really find it appealing. Never played Kingdom Hearts, so maybe I should abstain, but we already have 2 JRPG characters, so I'd prefer we not get another for diversity's sake.
And now the difficult one
"It's the Mario show, with our very special guest, Geno! YYYYAAAAAYYY!"
Chance: 1%
Where do we begin here? Well, there's the Hero thing we just talked about with Sora. We could also bring up his appearance in Superstar Saga being removed in the remake. I think it's also important to bring up Mario Sports Mix and Fortune Street. A crossover between Mario and Square characters. What's missing? Try any characters from Super Mario RPG, even though that'd be an easy place for them to show up. I can only infer that either Nintendo or Square Enix doesn't care about Geno or other SMRPG characters like Mallow. If anyone does care about them, it's Sakurai. Geno was (and could still be) a Mii Costume, and both he and Mallow are spirits in Ultimate. While it's good that Sakurai cares for the characters, it doesn't really help this time around. Nintendo chose the DLC characters, and if they didn't choose to bring Geno back for legitimate Mario and Square crossovers in the past... well, I don't have high hopes for him this time.
Want: 5%
I don't really like talking about my want for Geno. First off, I want to apologize to the Geno fans. You've been at the old grind for a long time for this character, and I admire that. I know a lot of nice Geno fans, and I in no way mean to disrespect anyone who is a fan of the character. That said, it's really difficult for me to want Geno. He's only been in one game, a game I never played. Now, I did play the original Superstar Saga, the one that actually had his cameo, and I've seen a bit of him in Project M. I completely get that most of his appeal comes from playing SMRPG and knowing the various moves he has. And I'll say this, they are rather stylish. But at the same time, I have no connection to said game, and at the same time, have a hard time getting behind a character with only one main appearance, and not even being the main character to boot. Honestly, I wish Geno did get more meaningful appearances so it'd be easier for me to rally for him. That said, I don't want to give a full zero, as I really admire the fan presence. Who knows, maybe this long road has something in store for you guys and gals after all.
Predictions:
Ryu H.: 34.5%, I see him having a good time tomorrow.
Chosen Undead: Oh great, this is gonna be a 'literal who' for me, isn't it? 7.77%, banking on lucky 7.
Geno
Chance: 3%
I just can't see it happening. He's already a spirit, and Square already received a DLC character. Maybe, if there's a second pass...
Want: 75%
I've never played Super Mario RPG and I don't particularly care for him. But that Project M mod of him is pretty cool, and having been a fan of Ridley/K. Rool/Banjo during very dark times (and still stanning for Dixie) I understand Geno's fans' plight, so I'd be very happy for them. They deserve some kind of good closure. Plus, as I said, the character is cool and totally unlike anyone else we have in the roster, so that's another plus.
Sora
Chance: 3%
Can't see him appening either. Square has already a DLC character, and dealing with Square + Disney I think would be a nightmare even for Sakurai and Nintendo. I also think that Sora wouldn't come with Mickey and Donald and the rest of the gang, so it kind of defeats the purpose of representing Kingdom Hearts itself.
Want: 1%
I struggle to think of any character I'd like less. Visually, he's on that weird line between boring and ugly. He fights with another damn blade. He wouldn't bring Donald with him. He would feel like a very "commercial" choice in a way that Cloud or Joker really didn't. Poor presence on Nintendo consoles. Power of friendship and all those embarassing things. No, I woldn't like him at all.
He doesn't get 0% because at least he's not from Fire Emblem.
Chance: 40%
I'd say probably the last third party NES icon that will make it in. Unlike other franchises (I'm thinking Contra, Bubble Bobble, Ghosts 'n Goblins, Double Dragon) Ninja Gaiden managed to break through the polygon ceiling and continue into the modern era, and that speaks volumes imo. The Ninja Gaiden trilogy are classics, masterpieces in fast-paced sidescroller action, and incredibly stylish and influential with their use of cutscenes. The newer games continue the tradition being crazy difficult but satisfying character actioners, carrying on the spirit of the original titles. Ryu has a lot of moveset potential. And after Mega Man and Simon, Ryu seems like the type of character Sakurai would pick. I'm docking 10% because I can see him as being more of a base roster guy like the two I mentioned.
Want: 100%
I love Ninja Gaiden. As a matter of fact, I'm currently replaying the first one. It's good ****.
The only thing I ask is that they add the Jaquio as a boss fight so that everyone can understand what I'm going through right now.
Sekiron't
Chance: 1%
This is just a really random choice to be rating. The Chosen Undead isn't iconic, but I can't really judge them by that standard since it's a creatable character. Still, others like Dragonborn and Commander Shepard who have iconic default designs, while the same can't be said for this one. Dark Souls definitely is an iconic series though, and it is influential, and it is critically acclaimed. So I could see it as a series that might warrant inclusion.
Honestly though, it doesn't seem to me like it's ripe for representation. A playable character would just be a swordwielder, albeit a slow as molasses one. That doesn't sound very exciting. There's more iconic and more creative RPG characters, more iconic and more creative swordwielders, and more iconic and more creative Bandai Namco characters.
Other things I think don't help are:
• Dark Souls is finished, From Soft is happy with making Souls clones with whatever IP they want because at this point their name and game design sells itself.
• No demand at all.
The one thing that helps: it's on Switch! Also it came out too late to matter.
Want: 1%
Not a fan of Dark Souls, mostly because I feel like their difficulty is more due to wonky hitboxes than actual challenge, and I find the combat boring (though the former grievance is much better in Bloodborne and the latter in Sekiro). Still, I admire their unique take on environmental storytelling and lore, and respect the games from an artistic standpoint. Ultimately though, a character from Dark Souls would feel incredibly boring to my tastes. Sorry.
Predictions:
Layton: 53.28% (He's basically Wright without competition, but Capcom also helps Wrighto)
Shantae: 12.99% (People will overrate her because of that dumb window thing, and it will be really embarrassing)
Gonna Abstain from the Undead since I'm gonna be playing Dark Souls on my Switch soon and I feel it unfair to rank them without having more knowledge on the series.
What The-?!
Chance:75%
Maybe a bit bold, but he has a LOT of things in his favor. I'm just gonna borrow my post on the Ryu support thread for this one...
Generally a trend with a lot of the 3rd Party reps we have gotten is they are from companies that worked with Nintendo on collabs before, such as...
Square: Super Mario RPG, Fortune Street.
Konami: DDR Mario Mix.
Capcom: The GBC/GBA Zeldas.
Sega: Mario & Sonic at the Olympics, F-Zero GX/AX.
ATLUS: Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE
Namco: Star Fox Assault, Mario Kart Arcade GP 1/2, PAC-MAN Vs., um...these Smash games.
Tecmo-Koei is the most notable omission here. Over the years they did things like having Takamaru as a character in Samurai Warriors, the Metroid level in DoA Dimensions, Pokemon Conquest, Metroid: Other M (oi) and having Ayane as a hidden character in a Fatal Frame game. they did so much dual work with the company compared to the others that the chance of a character from their games getting into here is inevitable, and there is no more notable character then Ryu Hayabusa, who even has the advantage of being one of the last major NES icons left.
Want: 100%
Not gonna sugar-coat, Ryu is probably my most wanted character for Smash right now. I'd even not be surprised if they stick his student Momiji in the game as an Echo as well alongside him as a bonus.
Chance: 25%
One of biggest things Ryu had going for him was his appearance in that bogus 5chan “leak” a few months ago (the one with Ryu, Doomguy, and Steve). Since that leak can’t be true as we only have two fighters left, we’re now back to square one with Ryu.
Ninja Gaiden is one of the most classic NES games not represented in Smash yet, so Ryu would be a good fit along with other NES era all-stars such as Simon Belmont. Koei Tecmo has also been shown to be very Nintendo-friendly in recent years, collaborating with Nintendo to create some Nintendo-themed Warriors spin-offs and even having a Metroid stage in one of the DoA games. Honestly the only really bad thing I can think of is that there hasn't been a Ninja Gaiden game in years (unless you count that one poorly received spin-off game 5 years ago), so there may not be a need to add him so urgently as paid DLC (yes we have Banjo but he had much higher demand).
Want: 60%
I initially didn't really care about Ryu that much, but after playing a bit of the original Ninja Gaiden via the NES online subscription thing on Switch I'd be pretty alright with his inclusion. It's a very tough yet enjoyable game and Ryu himself could be very fun to play as. Also I've had Unbreakable Determination (first song in the Ryu music post above) stuck in my head for the past few days.
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Abstaining completely on Chosen Undead. I know literally nothing about this character or his chances.
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Shantae chance prediction: 26.42% (I'm totally expecting people to overblow her chances as usual) Professor Layton chance prediction: 16.33%
Chance: 25%
One of biggest things Ryu had going for him was his appearance in that bogus 5chan “leak” a few months ago (the one with Ryu, Doomguy, and Steve). Since that leak can’t be true as we only have two fighters left, we’re now back to square one with Ryu.
Ninja Gaiden is one of the most classic NES games not represented in Smash yet, so Ryu would be a good fit along with other NES era all-stars such as Simon Belmont. Koei Tecmo has also been shown to be very Nintendo-friendly in recent years, collaborating with Nintendo to create some Nintendo-themed Warriors spin-offs and even having a Metroid stage in one of the DoA games. Honestly the only really bad thing I can think of is that there hasn't been a Ninja Gaiden game in years (unless you count that one poorly received spin-off game 5 years ago), so there may not be a need to add him so urgently as paid DLC (yes we have Banjo but he had much higher demand).
Want: 60%
I initially didn't really care about Ryu that much, but after playing a bit of the original Ninja Gaiden via the NES online subscription thing on Switch I'd be pretty alright with his inclusion. It's a very tough yet enjoyable game and Ryu himself could be very fun to play as. Also I've had Unbreakable Determination (first song in the Ryu music post above) stuck in my head for the past few days.
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Abstaining completely on Chosen Undead. I know literally nothing about this character or his chances.
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Shantae chance prediction: 26.42% (I'm totally expecting people to overblow her chances as usual) Professor Layton chance prediction: 16.33%
Chance: 40%
I'd say probably the last third party NES icon that will make it in. Unlike other franchises (I'm thinking Contra, Bubble Bobble, Ghosts 'n Goblins, Double Dragon) Ninja Gaiden managed to break through the polygon ceiling and continue into the modern era, and that speaks volumes imo. The Ninja Gaiden trilogy are classics, masterpieces in fast-paced sidescroller action, and incredibly stylish and influential with their use of cutscenes. The newer games continue the tradition being crazy difficult but satisfying character actioners, carrying on the spirit of the original titles. Ryu has a lot of moveset potential. And after Mega Man and Simon, Ryu seems like the type of character Sakurai would pick. I'm docking 10% because I can see him as being more of a base roster guy like the two I mentioned.
Want: 100%
I love Ninja Gaiden. As a matter of fact, I'm currently replaying the first one. It's good ****.
The only thing I ask is that they add the Jaquio as a boss fight so that everyone can understand what I'm going through right now.
Sekiron't
Chance: 1%
This is just a really random choice to be rating. The Chosen Undead isn't iconic, but I can't really judge them by that standard since it's a creatable character. Still, others like Dragonborn and Commander Shepard who have iconic default designs, while the same can't be said for this one. Dark Souls definitely is an iconic series though, and it is influential, and it is critically acclaimed. So I could see it as a series that might warrant inclusion.
Honestly though, it doesn't seem to me like it's ripe for representation. A playable character would just be a swordwielder, albeit a slow as molasses one. That doesn't sound very exciting. There's more iconic and more creative RPG characters, more iconic and more creative swordwielders, and more iconic and more creative Bandai Namco characters.
Other things I think don't help are:
• Dark Souls is finished, From Soft is happy with making Souls clones with whatever IP they want because at this point their name and game design sells itself.
• No demand at all.
The one thing that helps: it's on Switch! Also it came out too late to matter.
Want: 1%
Not a fan of Dark Souls, mostly because I feel like their difficulty is more due to wonky hitboxes than actual challenge, and I find the combat boring (though the former grievance is much better in Bloodborne and the latter in Sekiro). Still, I admire their unique take on environmental storytelling and lore, and respect the games from an artistic standpoint. Ultimately though, a character from Dark Souls would feel incredibly boring to my tastes. Sorry.
Predictions:
Layton: 53.28% (He's basically Wright without competition, but Capcom also helps Wrighto)
Shantae: 12.99% (People will overrate her because of that dumb window thing, and it will be really embarrassing)
Chance 20 - What was the case here again? He was in a few theories and leaks all of which turned out to be fake. Nobody was ever really asking for him, Tecmo doesn't really have a connection to Smash, and seems like a significantly less popular pick that a lot of the potential options. Seems more like a base roster pick for me.
Want 10 - No connection with the character and based on what I've learned about him it doesn't seem like I'd be super interested in. Would rather have someone I'm more interested in and that would be even somewhat unique
Chosen Undead
Chance 0 - Uh.... what. I just gave Ryu **** for not having that much of a case, but damn, there's basically no case here. I've only seen Chosen Undead's name come up once in Billybae10K
rate their chances videos and literally nothing else. If not for that I'd probably abstain. Not really iconic and not really wanted, and even though Mii Costume Theory kinda supports CU I think it's more likely that Namco just doesn't get another character.
Want 10 - Don't know much about Dark Souls and I know pretty much nothing about the character
ForsakenM
has covered most of my bases here, but honestly, Square already gave Sakurai Geno's rights. I honestly think that the character is not that much of a stretch. Especially as a bonus character for the fans. This just makes WAY too much sense.
Sid-cada
with 49.35%
Neosonic97
with 30.00%. Hey, you got your character! Good for you.
waddledeeonredyoshi
with 7.39%
Icedragonadam
with 12.44%
Artix
10
Awakining
5
DaUsername
50
Delzethin
5
GoodGrief741
40
Nemuresu
5
Ridrool64
5
shocktarts17
5
Ramen Tengoku
5
Ultomato
5
Billybae10K
rate their chances videos and literally nothing else. If not for that I'd probably abstain. Not really iconic and not really wanted, and even though Mii Costume Theory kinda supports CU I think it's more likely that Namco just doesn't get another character.
