Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes

[Sari]

Some music for today's characters:

Lloyd music:

Spoiler

Yuri music:

Spoiler

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Abstaining on both of the want ratings since I'm not too familiar with the Tales series. I've only played a bit of Symphonia but I don't think that'd be enough to warrant me giving a rating especially since it's such a big series.

Lloyd Irving

Chance: 60%
Namco is ripe for getting another rep and I think the most likely pick would be someone from the Tales series. If we were to get a Tales rep it would most likely be Lloyd. He's the most popular Tales rep worldwide and is supposedly the most popular one in the West. Sakurai himself said Lloyd would be the best way to represent the Tales series when he added the Lloyd mii costume in SSB4. Of course he has competition with Yuri and Velvet but ultimately I think Lloyd would be picked first.

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Yuri Lowell

Chance: 20%
Yuri benefits from supposedly being more popular than Lloyd in Japan. Aside from that however Lloyd seems to have the upper hand for the reasons stated above. If Lloyd does get added I can see Yuri being represented in some form, perhaps in a mii costume or alt (not sure if he'd be alt viable ala DQ Hero since I'm not too familiar with Yuri).

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Rayman chance prediction: 20%
Ezio chance prediction: 20%

I honestly have no idea how this day is gonna go so I'm just gonna give them the same predictions and see how close I am.

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Nominations:
Heavy (TF2) x5

 

[Mario123311]

Lloyd Irving
Chance: 75%
Want: 0%

Yuri Lowell
Chance: 50%
Want: 0%

Oh boy. I’m worried about this... I'm honestly worried, but it sadly seems likely a Tales of rep is going to happen. It especially worries me because Sakurai himself said if there is to be any Tales rep, It’s going to be Lloyd, and I absolutely hate him the most out of the two. Am I accepting?

Hell. To the No. I cannot stress this enough but I am sick of Namco milking this franchise and shoving it down my throat at every possible corner. It's essentially their Fire Emblem. Not helping matters is Pac-Man having literally no material from the World trilogy in Smash, So if Tales gets represented and somehow manages to get more material than their flagship franchise? Yeah, I'm gonna be pissed. Also Lloyd especially in particular looks generic as hell and may as well be another Fire Emblem character in my book. I don't care that he has two swords, I played Symphonia on an emulator for 2 hours and it didn't impress me, neither did any of his moves. The only plus I'd probably have is being able to wipe that smug as hell grin off his face as Pac-Man. (Which even then, I'm not able to use my favorite character's canonical moves.) Also we already got Hero and Joker, I would rather have other genres represented over adding more JRPG prettyboys.

I'm sorry, But I have grown to have an intense grudge against this series for it's over-usage in the 2010's. Please, Keep it away. I fear that should he be added, Namco will only milk the series further. And for the love of god, Gamecube kids don't remember Namco for Tales of Symphonia, They remember them for Pac-Man World 2.

Seriously, The Tales series needs to screw off for 5 to 6 years outside of Smash. It's getting a new mainline entry already, Namco's other IPs are still being sat on and Berseria came out back in 2016/2017.

Nominate: Serious Sam x5

Just watch me get intense hatred for this.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Geralt of Rivia

Chance: 37%
Lloyd is the man who has everything. People want him, he's very associated with Nintendo, and while I wouldn't call him iconic per se, Tales is an iconic, acclaimed, popular, influential and all around important franchise and he's the lead of the most popular title. I'm not willing to go higher with his chance score because Tekken and Heihachi are very much still in play, and unlike Capcom I can totally see Bandai Namco trying to be humble and not getting a second character yet.

Want: 75%
I really loved Tales of Symphonia, but that's the only Tales game I played so I wouldn't say I'm a fan of the franchise. I think he's earned his place and would be very happy to see him, but I have bigger fish to fry.

Yuri is a Guy

Chance: 1%
I don't see them going with Yuri. For all of his popularity with the hardcore Tales audience, I don't think they matter. Smash fans have spoken out and they've spoken out in Lloyd's favor. Sakurai himself has said 'who else but Lloyd?'. Yuri's game was an Xbox exclusive stateside for 9 years, and hadn't been on Nintendo until this year. While Cloud got in under similar circumstances... He's Cloud, and Yuri isn't by a long shot.

Edit: after reading the post, honestly I can't find a way that the 'Who else but Lloyd?' is anything but damning, so I changed my score from 8 to 1%. Sorry Yuri fans.

Want: abstain
I consider myself somewhat of a videogame connoisseur, so I was pretty surprised when I started hearing about this Yuri character from a Tales game I'd never heard mentioned until the remake. While anecdotal, for sure, I take it as evidence of relative obscurity, and I don't like obscure third parties in Smash. However, I have no ill will towards the character, so I'll abstain so as to not tank the character's score.

Rayman prediction: 16.92%
Ezio prediction: 8.01%

Noms: Kyle Hyde X5

 

[Icedragonadam]

Overall Tales Character

Chance: 70%
Want: 100%

-The Tales of Series is the only major RPG series(that isn't owned by Disney) left that isn't in Smash, being considered the 3rd biggest RPG by critics.
-As of now the series has over 20 million sales, doesn't seem great but other 3rd parties in Smash(like Bayonetta) has sold less than that, so Tales IS viable for a spot.
-It has it's own convention called Tales Festival in Japan and has managed to get it's own dedicated fan convention called Aseliacon. It has also a them park in Japan so it is in Iconic status.
-Namco is the only veteran 3rd party without a 2nd rep, while this seems kind of petty, we are missing out on Namco's other iconic franchises(like Tales) compared to the other companies.
-Mii Costume theory. Out of all the current theories, this is the most realistic one. Basically it proposes that each DLC character will have new and returning mii costumes released on the same day as them based on the character's IP Holder. If this happens, it won't be because they planned the DLC characters around this theory, but because it just worked out that way. It's much easier if Nintendo gets licenses from companies already on board with Smash rather than getting a character from a new company. Hence Microsoft likely being the only new company this time around.
-Insiders have heard Lloyd and Yuri's names around the VGAs and so far this is the only thing we have so far in terms of credible information.
-Namco confirmed that is marketing the newest Tales of Arise big time to the west, and one of the best ways is a Tales rep like Lloyd or Yuri in Smash.

Lloyd Irving

Chance: 65%

-He's the most requested Namco character by far
-Tales of Symphonia was the first successful Tales in the west, even having it's own themed Gamecube.
-Lloyd Irving was a mii costume released alongside K. Rool and Chrom, so he must have done well on the ballot.
-Sakurai specifically mentioning Lloyd in the interview about his mii costume.

Want: 100%

-Easily my most wanted newcomer, and among the two most wanted Tales reps.
-Even if it's not him, any other Tales rep will be fine though.

Yuri Lowell

Chance: 50%

-He's the most popular Tales character in the Tales Fanbase, so he's a close contender too.
-Vesperia did have a release on Switch.
-But Lloyd still has a bit of an edge over him though as mentioned in his section.

Want: 90%

-I just want any Tales rep in Smash.
-Although I'd prefer Lloyd Irving or Berseria's Velvet Crowe for preferences.

Rayman Prediction: 4.55%
Ezio Prediction: 12.44%

 

[YoshiandToad]

Lloyd:
Chance: 55%
If Namco-Bandai gets another rep it's going to be either him, Agumon, Heihachi(or Jin or Kazuya), someone from the Dark Souls series or Nightmare IMO. RIP Klonoa. Tales is the one Nintendo seems to be closest with, although Dark Souls did get an Amiibo and a Switch release.

Want: 35%
I know Lloyd and I'm not exactly a fan of the JRPG genre, so that probably says something about his overwhelming level of fame...
However I remember being told how incredibly unique he'd be for years by Smashboards speculators until someone posted a video of him in battle from his own game...and...well I was underwhelmed if I'm honest. Two swords instead of one is technically unique I guess, but somehow I was expecting something completely wild from the way he was being described.
There's nothing neccessarily wrong with a more stock moveset, heck I'd almost prefer it to an overly gimmicky one, but I don't really get Lloyd's Smash demand outside people enjoy the Tales series as a whole and Lloyd being the most famous character ala Cloud.

Sadly Lloyd also has the small issue of being yet another Smash DLC JRPG protagonist which kills a little more want for me.
Not really a big JRPG fan to begin with and we'd have 3/5 of the fighters pass as JRPG boys then with only Banjo for variety at current.
Sm4sh also had a hell of a lot of JRPG characters as DLC with only 2/7 not being a JRPG character. That's pretty ridiculous IMO.

Yuri:
Chance and want: Abstain.
Unlike Lloyd I've not even heard of Yuri's character before so I'll avoid rating.

 

[perfectchaos83]

49%/51% split for Lloyd/Yuri

I consider Yuri more likely due to being more popular with the Tales of fanbase. Lloyd is and always will be a pick from the Nintendo fan which is something I don't think matters for this DLC as a whole. I'm still of the notion that Nintendo is aiming for new demographics, and Yuri succeeds at that far better than Lloyd will since the Tales of fanbase is primarily women and Yuri is the heart throb to that fanbase.

Want: 30% Lloyd/75% Yuri.

I really don't care for Lloyd, Too cookie cutter. I prefer Yuri as a character and like his moveset better.

 

[Nquoid]

Lloyd Irving
Chance: 75%
Want: 65%

It's between Lloyd and Heihachi for Bamco rep. I'm going to use Sakurai's comments on Heihachi against him (even if it's been a few years and could have been re-examined) and say Lloyd is the presumed favourite. Tekken is bigger than Tales, but Tales has the title that has more Nintendo associations thanks to Symphonia. The only thing standing against him is the idea that Bamco aren't 100% confirmed to have a rep, but I think they're one of the three most likely candidates. Also Yo****o Higuchi, director of Symphonia and Vesperia, is a credited producer on Ultimate. Could mean absolutely nothing, but I'd be surprised if there was no Tales in the game once all is said and done.

Back in the Gamecube days, Symphonia was probably one of the best third party games on the platform. Whilst I didn't get around to it till it was on the PS3, it's definitely a title with Nintendo pedigree that I very much enjoyed. Whilst it does give us 3 JRPG reps in one pass, I think that can be chalked up to an obvious bias to that genre in the East and the fact that it's a genre literally built for the churn of characters that people can get very attached in a (normally) close ended story. It's a genre built for this kind of personality driven fighting game.

Yuri Lowell
Chance 40%
Want 30%

The best thing going for Yuri is Vesperia's popularity and quality being slightly better than Symphonia. But in regards to a fighting game that is still nominally based around Nintendo icons (a few outliers not-withstanding) Lloyd has Yuri beat. Obviously the Switch got Vesperia earlier this year, but I don't think it's quite enough to dethrone Lloyd. I also don't want to discount him entirely, but Sakurai's "obviously Lloyd" comment makes me think he has the same idea.

I've not played Vesperia yet (decided to prioritise DQXI as JRPG exploration this year) but I like everything I've seen and definitely want to try it out. So this score could definitely increase. This is mostly just in comparison to Lloyd and other suggested reps.

And for the love of god, Gamecube kids don't remember Namco for Tales of Symphonia, They remember them for Pac-Man World 2.

As a Gamecube kid I humbly disagree here. Unless you're including Pac-Man Vs. with Pac-Man World 2, which probably makes it closer, but I still don't think it's a contest of which game was more popular.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Lloyd Irving:

Chance: 55% - In my opinion Lloyd is the most likely DLC character, and the only one I'm willing to rate as being even slightly more likely than not. He's been requested for a long time (and probably did better on the ballot than most assume), he got a Mii Costume in Smash 4, he would fit into Smash seamlessly, and Sakurai has more or less said that he considers Lloyd the go-to Tales rep. Namco haven't yet had a newcomer in Ultimate either, and while I don't think Sakurai necessarily sets out to include reps from certain companies, it does help him compared to characters owned by Sega/Atlus, Microsoft and Konami, who have already had their fill for this installment. The only significant hurdle he faces is competition from Heihachi, who despite being rejected once could have seen his fortunes change years later, but even if that was the case, I think the bigger focus on fan demand with Ultimate would see Lloyd win that duel now. I don't think any character is guaranteed since we only have two slots left, but if you asked me outright who I think the last two will be, the only answer I can give is that I think Lloyd will be one of them, he's just a slight step ahead of every other candidate imo.

Want: 40% - I've never as much as touched a Tales game, and Lloyd isn't really the type of character I personally care to see more of. He'd be a good addition on many levels, but just not one I'd care for.

Yuri Lowell:

Chance: 10% - I'm gonna take Sakurai's word for it and say that I think it really has to be Lloyd. It's not impossible that Yuri makes it, from what I've read he definitely seems to have his own advantages, but I think overall Lloyd just fits into how Ultimate's newcomer choices have come about better.

Want: 20% - At the very least I've known who Lloyd is for a long time, I had never heard Yuri's name until Ultimate speculation, despite his game being over a decade old now. I know within the Tales fanbase itself he's very popular, but for the Smash community I think he'd be an odd inclusion, it'd be like if they picked another Belmont instead of Simon, or X over Mega Man, I'm sure some people would love it, but it's not the immediately logical choice imo.

 

[StormC]

Lloyd Irving

Chance: 40%. I don't think I'd rate any character above 60 at this point, but Lloyd has enough things going for him; he's a character people have wanted since the Brawl era, Sakurai pointed out "it had to be Lloyd" when talking about a Tales costume, his moveset would translate easily to Smash, Namco hasn't had a new character since Pac-Man... I think it just comes down to a few things: Is Tales a prestigious enough franchise to be added to Smash? It's decently popular and has a long history but I don't think people generally think of the Tales games as some of the best games around, they're seen as kind of a B-level JRPG series, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, even Persona get a lot more love and critical acclaim. I'm also not sure they'd go for three JRPG franchises on the Pass, but heaven knows we have a lot of those characters in Smash as is. And there's the elephant in the room of Heihachi, who comes from a much more famous series, represents a genre not yet on the Pass, and has been considered by Sakurai before.

Want: 55%. Basically neutral, and not a huge fan of getting another RPG protagonist on the Pass, but Lloyd would be a character a lot of people want, including a good friend of mine, so I'd be happy that they're happy. The only Tales games I've played are Vesperia and Berseria so I don't have an opinion on Lloyd himself besides what he would do for the Smash fandom.

Yuri Lowell

Chance: 30%. He's infamously popular in the Tales fandom, to the point where he was banned from fan polls because he won every time. Vesperia was for a long time seen as the Tales game and still is in many ways, as well as being more recent and having a remaster on Switch. That said, Lloyd was the one to receive the Mii costume and the nod by Sakurai, so it's tough to call. I'll lean slightly more towards Lloyd, and Yuri still has the issue with the Tales franchise not being especially prestigious or esteemed within the industry compared to most of the third party series already in Smash.

Want: 45%. While I have played Vesperia for a bit and do like Yuri, Lloyd would probably be more interesting in Smash, and my familiarity with Yuri probably wouldn't overpower seeing other people happy Lloyd got in. Still, Yuri is a cool character and I wouldn't mind him in Smash, although I doubt his personality would show through much.

 

[Ornl]

Tales of rep
Chance : 0% - Want : abstain

Tales of and Megami Tensei are both long RPG series, each sold at ≈16.5M units. But, like Fire Emblem, Tales of series was better exported to the West and was therefore more likely to be sold better in Japan. If there are Western players who agree to support Tales of, there isn't the same influence in Japan. Famitsū is a Japanese video game magazine where Sakurai publish bi-weekly column since 2003. According to polls to readers in 2017 :
- Persona 5 and Dragon Quest III were chosen top 1 and top 2 of their favorite RPG.
In this top 20, Persona appears 3 times, Dragon Quest 3, Final Fantasy 6, Xeno- 2. Tales of 0.
- Persona 5 and Dragon Quest III were chosen top 1 and top 2 of their favorite games of all time.
In this top 100, Persona appears 4 times, Dragon Quest 6, Final Fantasy 11, Xeno- 2. Tales of 0.

Players might think that Bamco is under-represented, because Pac-Man is the only Fighter, the company is developing Utimate, the costume theory, and because Fire Emblem has a historic similarity to Tales of without this having been an obstacle to over-representation. But, for Ultimate, I don't understand why Bamco would add one of its characters in DLC as a last Fighter, and not in the basic game. There is no reason for Tekken rep or Tales of rep to be in DLC. Inkling, Daisy, Chrom, Isabelle and K. Rool have been upgraded to Costumes to Fighters in the basic game. Akira, Arcade Bunny, Black Knight, Knuckles, Rathalos and Zero have been upgraded from Costumes to Assist Trophies in the basic game. Heihachi Mishima has been upgraded from Costume to Pac-Man's taunt in the basic game.
Joker, Hero and Banjo aren't simple upgrades, and it seems impossible for me that the two new Fighters in this Pass are simple upgrades. I think the choice of Hero partly explains the absence of Lloyd/Yuri. The new heroic fantasy JRPG hero that was chosen for the DLC is Hero. Lloyd/Yuri and the very popular and supported Isaac aren't this new hero. I think Shulk/Cloud/Hero defeated Isaac and Tales of.

Nominations : Lara Croft x5

 

[Nquoid]

Tales of rep
Chance : 0% - Want : abstain
In this top 20, Persona appears 3 times, Dragon Quest 3, Final Fantasy 6, Xeno- 2. Tales of 0.
- Persona 5 and Dragon Quest III were chosen top 1 and top 2 of their favorite games of all time.
In this top 100, Persona appears 4 times, Dragon Quest 6, Final Fantasy 11, Xeno- 2. Tales of 0.

0% is a very strong reaction. You think it's 100% impossible a Tales rep makes it into the game?

Also interestingly, Famitsu's 2006 poll had 5 Tales of games in the top 100 and a 2015 poll listed Tales of as Japan's 4th favourite JRPG series. I don't think Japan is massively in love with Tales, but also don't think it's as unpopular as you're trying to spin. If anything, there seems to be a lot of recency bias when looking at Famitsu lists, with half the 2017 top 10 being released within 5 years of the poll.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Lloyd Irving

Chance: 30%
He's still one of Namco's top contenders for a possible characters and, in many people's eyes, Tales is one of the best choices for a JRPG series in Smash right now. Plus, Sakurai himself seems to favor him, something that always gives a character a certain boost. Symphonia is one of the Tales branches popular enough to spawn a sequel, which is another voucher for popularity. That said, he has at least one contender from his own series (rated below) and a few from the rest of Bandai Namco, most notably Heihachi, whom we know Sakurai had considered adding before. Plus, while it would be weird for Pac-Man to be the only Namco character, there is still a chance that they won't get a newcomer at all.

Want: 10%
I'll be honest: I am someone who loves his JRPGs, but... please, let other genres have the spotlight. We already got Joker and Hero. It's not a matter of "anime swordsmen" or anything like that, because I think Lloyd would be distinct in his own right, but I'd rather see what crazy kinds of gameplay Sakurai could come up with, at least for the remainder of the Pass.

Yuri Lowell

Chance: 20%
Slightly less than Lloyd, because Sakurai Bias™️ is not on his side. He seems to be very popular among the Tales fanbase, but not so much among the Smash fanbase, so him being selected in place of Lloyd is a roll of the demographics dice. Regardless, he still has pretty much the same pros and cons as Lloyd.

Want: Abstain
Unlike Lloyd, I don't know enough about him to make an educated judgement.

Nominations: Kyo Kusanagi x 5

 

[Neosonic97]

My feelings haven't changed on this, although I have softened up on Lloyd.

"I'll show you! Divine Justice!"
Chance: 35%
Given that Yuri hasn't been announced as DLC yet, I'm willing to give Lloyd a chance again. At first I was absolutely sure that Lloyd was only ever going to be a base game character (as in, in the initial roster, not DLC), but my stance has softened up on this (But not completely changed). I DO still think Yuri's more likely, but it's a lot closer now.

Want: 60%
Tales of Symphonia is not a game I personally have any connection to (I've never played it, unlike Vesperia), but I can definitely see why Lloyd is a popular choice for Smash. Still, though, there are more popular Tales characters out there than Lloyd (To the point where Lloyd barely misses out on top 10).

"O brilliant blade of coldest steel, rend the infinite darkness and crush my enemies to nothing! Savage Wolf Fury!"
Chance: 40%
I still think he's more likely than Lloyd now, but to nowhere near a degree as it was before. Yuri has always struck me as the obvious Tales DLC choice to coincide with Vesperia Definitive, although that time has passed now. Still, Yuri is widely regarded as one of the top two most popular Tales characters and there is a good reason for that. Once again, as far as Tales popularity polls go, Yuri is so popular that he actually got banned from said polls due to consistently coming first by a wide margin. I definitely think that being the more popular character overall (as well as being fresh in people's minds due to Vesperia Definitive) is the reason why Yuri is more likely, though this has been weakened so it's only slightly better.

Want: 90%.
In a single word: YES. Yuri Lowell is my #2 most wanted pick, ONLY losing out to Reimu Hakurei. Tales of Vesperia (specifically Definitive) is one of the greatest RPGs I've ever had the pleasure of playing (and there's a good reason why a non-zero percentage of the Tales fandom view it as THE best Tales game, it's REALLY damn good [hence why Vesperia Definitive was so hyped upon its announcement]). There's no question that Yuri is worthy of a spot. Whether he or Lloyd deserves it more is up for debate, but they're both worthy for it.

Plus, Tales of Vesperia has much better music than Tales of Symphonia. Fury Sparks is my jam!

Rayman prediction: 10%
He's already a spirit, and at this point that's pretty much a death sentence.

Ezio prediction: 25%

Noms: Reimu rerate x5

PS; If you didn't get the references, the titles I used for Yuri and Lloyd are their Mystic Arte quotes (Specifically Lloyd's Falcon's Crest and Yuri's Savage Wolf Fury)... something in which Yuri beats Lloyd handily- his Mystic Arte quote is much cooler.

 

[BowserKing]

Lloyd and Yuri

Chance: 20 to 30%. We have yet to see another Bandai Namco Rep, since that company helped with this game. Plus we don't see Lloyd Mii costumes yet either. But there would be a lot of competition for them to face.

Want: 50 to 55%. They would be fun characters to play as. That is all I'm going to say, since I don't know too much about them.

Noms: 2 for Decidueye and 3 for Gooey

 

[Ornl]

0% is a very strong reaction. You think it's 100% impossible a Tales rep makes it into the game?

Also interestingly, Famitsu's 2006 poll had 5 Tales of games in the top 100 and a 2015 poll listed Tales of as Japan's 4th favourite JRPG series. I don't think Japan is massively in love with Tales, but also don't think it's as unpopular as you're trying to spin. If anything, there seems to be a lot of recency bias when looking at Famitsu lists, with half the 2017 top 10 being released within 5 years of the poll.

In my point of view, 10% is already a very strong reaction. I think the Famitsu's 2006 poll is too old. Thanks for the 2015 poll. It doesn't change my opinion because there are 4x less votes for Tales of than for Dragon Quest or Final Fantasy. Hero > any heroic fantasy JRPG hero. My opinion also take into account that Bamco rep seems too obvious and all the character upgrades from Sm4sh to Ultimate are exclusive at the base game.

 

[Nquoid]

In my point of view, 10% is already a very strong reaction. I think the Famitsu's 2006 poll is too old. Thanks for the 2015 poll. It doesn't change my opinion because there are 4x less votes for Tales of than for Dragon Quest or Final Fantasy. Hero > any heroic fantasy JRPG hero. My opinion also take into account that Bamco rep seems too obvious and all the character upgrades from Sm4sh to Ultimate are exclusive at the base game.

So does this mean you don't think many (if any) characters have more than a 10% shot of making it into the DLC roster? I'm just intrigued by the "too obvious" portion, because that implies you think the last two picks won't be obvious at all?

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Lloyd Irving

Chance: 85%
With Tales being one of the biggest NAMCO Franchises, I think NAMCO still only having one rep (the last 3rd Party from the base roster left to do so) is strange while being the developing company. Tales is one of their most iconic franchises and would be the last major "RPG" to be represented. Lloyd having a Mii costume in also helps his chances.

Want: 100%
Like I said before, Tales is one of the last major JRPG franchises not represented in Smash. I personally think it is the most deserving Bamco franchise and would fit great with the rest of the cast. Symphonia in particular is a Gamecube classic.

Yuri Lowell

Chance: 85%
Same as with Lloyd, with the additional fact that Vesperia has just gotten a Switch release and is very relevant right now. I feel like he has gained a lot of new fans recently because of this, and is technically the newest Tales protagonist on a Nintendo console.

Want: 100%
Just like what I said with Lloyd, Tales would make it so that Smash has all the great JRPGs. Having Tales, Pokemon, Fire Emblem, Earthbound, Final Fantasy, Persona, and Dragon Quest together would be a dream come true in so many ways.

 

[Ornl]

So does this mean you don't think many (if any) characters have more than a 10% shot of making it into the DLC roster? I'm just intrigued by the "too obvious" portion, because that implies you think the last two picks won't be obvious at all?

I was only referring to the Tales of rep. I think the theory that it would miss a 2nd Bamco rep and the theory of costumes are too easy. They make people talk, influence opinions, and the Bamco rep names are repeated in the messages of the forums. I think that repeated names are self-conditioning and self-influencing. Personally, I still feel more agree with some reviews about Lloyd dating back to before the Sm4sh DLC.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I was only referring to the Tales of rep. I think the theory that it would miss a 2nd Bamco rep and the theory of costumes are too easy. They make people talk, influence opinions, and the Bamco rep names are repeated in the messages of the forums. I think that repeated names are self-conditioning and self-influencing. Personally, I still feel more agree with some reviews about Lloyd dating back to before the Sm4sh DLC.

No offense dude, but is English not your first language? This was a little hard to read, not because I disagree with you, but in general. Nothing against if it is not your first language, but I have noticed that the grammar of your posts tends to be a bit difficult to decipher.

Here is how I am interpreting it...

I was only referring to a Tales of rep. I feel people really overrate the idea of costume theory and a second Bamco rep. This speculation around costume theory ultimately conditions people to believe a second Bamco rep is way more likely than if we did not look so deeply into costume theory in the first place. Personally, I still tend to read more into the less optimistic look into Lloyd that was seen during Sm4sh speculation, particularly Sm4sh DLC.

That is how I am interpreting it. That might not be your exact reasoning but grammar issues have made your posts a bit confusing in the past.


While I am here, I am just gonna get my ratings out of the way now.

Lloyd Irving

60% Chance

The third most likely thing we could get imo. I personally still am leaning more towards our last two being Resident Evil and Crash, but Lloyd has a very strong resume. He is a character that has had notable enough support for Smash. Normally I tend to take out fan demand unless I think it reaches such a point where the character dominates speculation. Sometimes, this is a good sign, see in their respective debut appearances, or the return of . Fan demand can be helpful, and Sakurai cites it all the time. He most recently cited it for Banjo. Yet fan demand is not an absolute. Isaac is still an assist trophy, Geno will be a Mii costume we will get with Hero, Bandana Dee and Dixie Kong were not in the base game, and while I personally think at least 1/3 of all Waluigi support is just for memes, he did have a noticeable outcry from his absence. If I listed every fan favorite that is not playable, this post would be way too long. Lloyd is a fan favorite in Smash speculation and has had historic support, even if it is not as high as many of the above choices.

Tales of is also a huge franchise. It generally is regarded up there with Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy as one of the big JRPGs in japan, or at least has been historically. Symphonia also has the benefit of being the best selling game in the franchise (in figures that I might mention do not count the ToS rereleases on PS3 and Steam) and the game that got Western fans into Tales. These are also solid notches in Lloyd's belt.

Finally, a namco character is decently likely. Namco only has one character as of this writing. As such, it would make sense for it to get more content. It has more content to give and they have helped develop Smash since Smash 4. While Lloyd does have competition for this, the only significant non Tales competition comes in Tekken and Dark Souls (When we rate Soul Calibur I will talk more about why I do not see any character from it as likely). Tekken has the issues surrounding Heihachi, who is unquestionably the face of Tekken. Dark Souls while a decent choice I feel pales to Tales.

100% Want

I really did enjoy Tales of Symphonia. One of the best games on my good old gamecube. Up there with Resident Evil 4, Path of Radiance, Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, Metroid Prime, Sunshine, and Melee as some of the best games for the System. I honestly can say if you own a Gamecube this is a must own game. It is a great game to experience with friends and the combat is great.

Yuri Lowell

10% Chance

Yuri does have the boon of being the Tales of fan favorite. He had to be banned from the popularity polls. Tales of Vesperia tends to be one of the most popular tales games too. However, I feel Lloyd outclasses him. Lloyd has a greater presence within Nintendo history, while Yuri's game just got a rerelease on Switch. I also take Sakurai on his word, and he has said very good things about Lloyd and the Mii Costume.

100% Want

I like Vesperia. It is a solid game. I really enjoyed it. Not as much as Symphonia but still it was great. I would love for more people to play it. I just want Tales to get more love.

Protoman x 5

 

[-crump-]

Lloyd Irving
Chance: 60%
Seemingly the clear cut choice for a second Namco rep, should that happen. Tales Of is a big series, Lloyd has a lot of fans, he’s been tossed around a lot in Smash speculation, and he even got a Mii costume in Smash 4. His only real competition from Namco is Heihachi, so if the Costume Theory turns up right (which I still hold some doubt over) he’s one of the most likely additions.

Want: 10%
Was gonna abstain, but the more I see of this character the less interested I become. With Joker and Hero already coming from prominent JRPG franchises, having another DLC character cut from the same cloth seems a bit much to me. His design also looks super generic (imo), and I’d really prefer more visually unique characters to stock anime boys.

Yuri Lowell
Chance/Want: Abstain
I know literally nothing about Yuri (dead*** I thought we were rating Marth’s VA for a sec). I’ll pass on both because I don’t wanna look too much like that one guy screaming at anime.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Damn y'all severely overrating Lloyd. We're seeing scores ranging from 60 to 80%. That's... Way too much imo.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Damn y'all severely overrating Lloyd. We're seeing scores ranging from 60 to 80%. That's... Way too much imo.

Meh, one guy rated him 0% so it all balances out.

Besides, I don't think most of the DLC characters throughout Smash 4 and Ultimate were seen as likely.

 

[3DSNinja]

Double the Swords
Chance: 50%:
While Bandana Dee and Wright are my first option, then Crash, Lloyd is definitely very likely. Symphonia is still the game that gave Tales of exposure in the west. Plus, Sakurai said that Lloyd would be the Tales of rep. And what other Bamco rep could their be? Sure, Heihachi, but he is in one of PAC-MAN's taunts. Lloyd is one of my most likely for DLC, that much is certain.
Want:100%: Lloyd could be a very interesting character. People say that he is just Marth with two swords and to an that he is, he still has potential for uniqueness. Plus his SSF2 moveset works really well and he feels fluid and fun to nplay. He could easily work. And he also has all of his Artes from Symphonia. Also the stage would be amazing. I am on board with this.
Abstain on Yuri, never heard of him.
Nominations: Specter Knight x3, Blaze x2
Also Mushroomguy12 Banjo and Hero would like to say high.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Spoiler: Nominations post-Captain Toad/Dixie Kong pre-Lloyd Irving/Yuri Lowell

Heavy (Team Fortress) x161
Crono x145
Kyle Hyde x140
Kamek x134
Ellie (The Last of Us) x120
Saber (Fate) x117
Rundas x115

150 - 101

Protector (Etrian Odyssey) x105
Cadence (Crypt of the Necrodancer) x105

100 - 51

Aloy x100
Concept: Valve rep x95
Boss: Kracko x95
Ninten x95
Terry Bogard x95
Frogger x85
Gene (God Hand) x85
Noctis Lucis Caelum x80
Glover x80
9-Volt x80
Velvet Crowe x80
Adeleine (Kirby) x78
Specter Knight x77
Jin Kazama x70
[Rerate] Micaiah x70
X (Mega Man) x68
Blaze the Cat x63
Sunflower (Plants vs. Zombies) x55
Captain Rainbow x52
Papyrus x51

50 - 25

Concept: More Bosses x50
Decidueye x49
Brian (Quest 64) x47
Dwight Fairfield (Dead by Daylight) x40
Concept: DLC challenges x35
Concept: Dragalia Lost rep x35
Gooey (Kirby) x34
Concept: Assist Trophy becomes Fighter x30
Qbby x30
Earthworm Jim x30
Farmer (Harvest Moon/Story of Seasons) x28
Thrall (Warcraft) x25
Cooking Mama x25
Boss: Perfect Chaos x25
Concept: Another western character x25

Under 25

[Rerate] Reimu Hakurei x23
Reporter & Wrestler x20
Tora and Poppi x20
Johnny Silverhand x20
Concept: Pokéball Pokémon becomes fighter x20
Amaterasu x20
Concept: Spirits aren’t disconfirmations x18
King Boo x16
Hector (Fire Emblem) x15
Pyra & Mythra (sans Rex) x15
Kyo Kusanagi x15
Black Shadow x13
Concept: Another joke character x13
Gex x12
Mike Jones x11
Marx (Kirby) x11
Concept: Bethesda rep x10
Frog (Chrono Trigger) x10
Beat (Jet Set Radio) x10
Concept: Spectator Emotes x10
Concept: Lord Fredrik as an Echo Fighter of K. Rool x10
Concept: Grookey's final evolution x10
Concept: Medabots rep x10
Kratos x10
Lara Croft x10
Proto Man x10
Magolor x9
Toon Zelda x8
Sir Arthur (Ghosts 'n Goblins) x7
Blacephalon x5
Zhao Yun (Dynasty Warriors) x5
Neptune x5
Concept: Crazi Taxi rep x5
Oliver (Ni No Kuni) x5
Courier (Fallout) x5
Scorpion x5
Concept: Another literally who Level-5 Character who's popular in Japan, like Achilles or Mark Evans x5
Starman (Pro Wrestling) x5
Malzahar (League of Legends) x5
Concept: Master Chief Mii Costume x5
Worm (Worms) x5
Balloon Fighter x5
Tiz Arrior x5
[Rerate] Dovahkiin x5
Rash x5
Nightmare (Soul Calibur) x5
Concept: League of Legends rep x5
Lizalfos x4
Urbosa x3
Concept: No More DLC x3
Boss: Sans x2
Sub-Zero x2
Concept: Street Fighter Mii costumes x2
Stahl x1
Duster x1
Pappy Van Poodle x1
Dr. Eggman x1
Toon Zelda & Tetra x1
[Rerate] Chibi-Robo x1

Cadence dances past 100 noms.

Today's new concept is No More DLC with 3 noms.

Double the Swords
Chance: 50%:
While Bandana Dee and Wright are my first option, then Crash, Lloyd is definitely very likely. Symphonia is still the game that gave Tales of exposure in the west. Plus, Sakurai said that Lloyd would be the Tales of rep. And what other Bamco rep could their be? Sure, Heihachi, but he is in one of PAC-MAN's taunts. Lloyd is one of my most likely for DLC, that much is certain.
Want:100%: Lloyd could be a very interesting character. People say that he is just Marth with two swords and to an that he is, he still has potential for uniqueness. Plus his SSF2 moveset works really well and he feels fluid and fun to nplay. He could easily work. And he also has all of his Artes from Symphonia. Also the stage would be amazing. I am on board with this.
Abstain on Yuri, never heard of him.
Nominations: Specter Knight x3, Blaze x2
Also Mushroomguy12 Banjo and Hero would like to say high.

We rated Banjo pretty low. Same with Erdrick before the leaks. We didn't even rate Luminary, Solo, Eight or Joker.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Mushroomguy12 Banjo and Hero would like to say high.

Yup, I was referring to Banjo and Joker as those that were seen as unlikely.

Dragon Quest was kind of expected, though I guess that was more because of the leaks than anything. Without them, I'm pretty sure Hero would fall into that category as well.

 

[Nquoid]

Damn y'all severely overrating Lloyd. We're seeing scores ranging from 60 to 80%. That's... Way too much imo.

GO BIG OR GO HOME!

 

[Mario123311]

Please, Namco. Don’t shove this franchise down my throat more than you already have. I’m gagging and Pac-Man’s garbage representation isn’t helping matters.

I’m honestly getting sick or all these JRPG reps, no offense. Mainly because most of them with the exception of Joker have been mostly generic designed and undistinct. Pretty much the only other JRPG rep I’d be rooting for at this point is Neptune.

 

[Deleted member]

Dual-Wielding Anime Swordsman

Chance: 21%

While I don't really know the Tales series all that much, I believe Lloyd's Mii Costume will probably return for Ultimate at some point. His fans are definitely vocal, but I'm not really counting on him being the official Tales rep for Smash. Sure, the Tales game Lloyd came from is more popular to Nintendo fans, but if we're going with the overall Tales representative, Lloyd would probably be in 3rd place for that since Nintendo would probably ask for either Yuri, who I'll get to after this, and Velvet, while despite her rather revealing outfit is the most recent Tales character currently.

Want: 28%

As I've mentioned before, I'm not too familiar with the series. Sometimes, a character from a series that I've only heard about but never played would fascinate me on how they'd work in Smash, but for Tales, Velvet Crowe is the only character I'm interested in seeing as a fighter more than Lloyd. The biggest way they could sell me on him would have to be how they present his trailer and gameplay, but right now, I'm certainly more interested in seeing the general reaction to a Smash trailer of Lloyd than I am with wanting him in Smash.

Anime Troy Baker

Chance: 33%

Apparently, Yuri is to Tales what Cloud is to Final Fantasy (or rather, what Erdrick is to Dragon Quest), so I'd give him the edge over Lloyd for that. Tales of Vesperia got a re-release, which Symphonia doesn't seem to have other than a PC port on Steam. Troy Baker probably won't reprise his role as Yuri for Smash since Bandai-Namco didn't ask him to voice Yuri for the Definitive Edition, but whoever's currently voicing him probably will. It might be easier for Nintendo's sake since they probably think bringing Troy Baker as a VA in Smash would be costly. The only reason why I rank him fairly low however is because Yuri could also be easily reprised as a Mii Costume in Smash, and with Joker and Hero (more specifically the Luminary) being characters from the latest installment of their respective franchises, it's definitely possible that the more recent Tales character like Velvet will be in Smash before he ever will.

Want: 26%

It's the same reasoning I have with Lloyd, except the difference here is that I prefer Lloyd's design slightly more than Yuri's. Something about Yuri puts me off a bit; maybe it just might be the case that he looks rather feminine and being voiced by the same VA that voiced Joel from The Last of Us throws me off. Maybe there's some sort of in game reasoning for it, but out of all the Tales protagonists out there, he's certainly on the lower spectrum on my want meter.

Predictions:
Ezio: 15.76%
Rayman: 5%

Noms: Dynasty Warriors' Zhao Yun x5

Edit: Separated the Want scores for Lloyd and Yuri and added nominations. I didn't realize we're supposed to rate the Want scores separately.

 

[MrMcNuts]

Llyod
Chance: 20%
He's popular from what I heard?
Want: 0%
No more swordies

Yuri: abstain
I know nothing about them

Prediction:
Rayman 12%
Asscreed 3% (if Rayman ain't getting in then Ezio sure ain't)

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

Stories from rep
Lloyd chance: 20%
Yuri chance: 1%
Tales of is pretty big but I don't know, having 3 outta the 5 characters be JRPG boys with blades doesn't seem like an optimal choice. And they're probably not heavy enough hitters to be saved for the last/second to last spot. It's getting down to the wire and there are still a handfull of companies that could take Bamco's place. In any case, Lloyd would likely get in over Yuri if the series did get represented. Pretty sure Sakurai himself admitted he would go for Lloyd. Sure, he might not have a say in that but I'm pretty sure if Nintendo themselves went with Banojo to please the Smash crowd, they would pick Lloyd as well.

Lloyd want: 10%
Yuri want: 0%
Lloyd's definitely more requested so I'd rather have him. Tho personally, Tales of isn't really a franchise I know much about nor care much about so I'd rather have none from that series at all, no offense. I would prefer the prince for a second Namco character.

Rayman: 7.36%
Ezio: 6.71%
Gene x5

 

[frozolloyd]

Since they are from the same series, I am going to start by the pros and cons of their series, then their respective advantages.
Lloyd Irving: Chance: 45 percent
Yuri Lowell: Chance 20 percent

Since I am always talking very positive about the Tales series chances, lets start with the cons. It would be the third JRPG on this pass, which might dissuade Sakurai from picking them for this DLC cycle (Although smash 4 DLC's notably had 5/7 JRPGs). In comparison to what I think of as the big 4 Bandai Namco reps (Dark Souls, Soul Caliber, Tekken and Tales), it is third on that scale of total sales, only beating out Soul Caliber. It is especially notable that Tekken completely dwarfs all the other 3 series in sales, meaning Tekken would probably be Sakurai's go to series next. The fact the Tales series is a decently niche RPG, in comparison to Dragon Quest and FF, might be the thing that hurts it the most, which might stop Sakurai from considering this series as DLC as compared to base game.
Now on to the positives of the Tales series. First, the series has supported Nintendo with the most amount of mainline games with about a dozen mainline games being on various Nintendo consoles, compared to the other three franchises which mainly gave Nintendo their spinoffs. Second unlike Tekken, who is now part of Pac man's roulette, the Tales series has no representation yet in ultimate, although this could just mean Lloyd's mii costume is coming back. On the subject of the mii costume, it seems Sakurai views Tales as a contender at least, as they were given a mii costume last game instead of Soul Caliber. This is interesting as a lot of mii costumes from smash 4 have been upgraded to full fighters. And although you could argue that can ONLY be applied for the base game, that just seems to be another weird fan rule. It is important to note, this could also just mean the costume comes back as paid DLC. Honestly, only Sakurai knows. Finally, this is a series that seems to be a decently popular request, although never a front runner like Crash or Geno.

Now for the specifics. Lloyd Irving was the character who got the mii costume last game, getting chosen over more popular character within the Tales
fandom. Sakurai even made it seem like it could have been no one else from the Tales series would make as much sense as Lloyd, meaning Lloyd is at least on his radar. Lloyd also hails from the overall best selling Tales game in the series, as well as the only entry that managed to get people in the West interested in the series (as it is by FAR the best selling Tales game in the West as well). Symphonia and Symphonia 2 also a Nintendo exclusive in the West (it was ported to PS2 in Japan), meaning Lloyd is the most "Nintendo" Tales character, which is why he was the most requested character from the series in fan polls. His big downside is he is not as popular within the fandom, due to the fans in Japan not liking Symphonia as much as the fans in the West, but I'm of the opinion Sakurai isn't picking characters on this pass on who is the most popular in the specific fandom.

Yuri Lowell's biggest advantage at the moment is he is the most popular character within the Tales fandom, by quite a big margin. However, a lot of the advantages he had when we last rated him are not present anymore. Many people speculated that "Brave" could have been him, but in the end it seems that it was referring to Hero. He wasn't released around the time of Vesperia Definitive edition, meaning he no longer can really be called a promotion character for that game. So the question it seems people are now asking is if Sakurai/Nintendo care more about the popularity of the Tales character within the fandom (Yuri) or the popularity of the Tales character within the smash fandom (Lloyd). From the fact they have so far picked Joker over Yu and Luminary as the main character over Erdrick, I lean towards the latter.

Lloyd Irving: Want: 100 percent
Yuri Lowell: Want: 40 percent
Tales is one of my favorite franchise, so I am really hoping one of the characters get in. I have always been a sucker for duel swordsmen and I love how Lloyd fought like in his game, so I definitely prefer Lloyd over Yuri (and Velvet in between). However, I still would be decently happy if Yuri got.

 

[Ridrool64]

Captain Coffee & ...a lesbian joke is beneath me. I can't make a deep cut reference to Vesperia since I haven't gotten around to it.

Lloyd's Chance: He's not "he's in" tier but I'd say a 55% is good for this guy. Heihachi is a part of Pac-Man's lineup and, well, you know what else happened, so many have turned to Tales as the next likeliest candidate for a Smash character from Namco. Lloyd's fan demand has existed since Brawl and while that didn't help Isaac, it did help K. Rool and Ridley, so I think this is what's going to separate him from the rest of the pack. He has much better uniqueness potential thanks to a bunch of things that I think Sakurai would take interest in. And yet, I wouldn't go higher, because the possibility of Bamco deciding not to add a character, or Sakurai not getting the idea, or Nintendo not including a Tales/Namco character on the list are things we need to take into consideration. And while Heihachi runs circles around his Tekken compatriots, there's still Jin. And beyond that, there's still Soul Calibur, there's still Digimon. Lloyd's not out of the woods. And even if you believe Mii Costume theory, then it seals his fate, as his Mii Costume could return.

Lloyd's Want: Give me the coffee man ASAP, please. 75%, Symphonia is fantastic and really he could've been in Smash 4, also his moveset would translate pretty much perfectly into Smash, also there's about a billion ways to add content that would be great. He ain't Crash, and he definitely isn't Arle, but Lloyd would be amazing nonetheless.

Yuri's Chance: Yuri's probably about, say, 40%. He can't be much worse off than Lloyd, but I don't think he can be much better off. His fan-demand was basically nonexistent for a long time, since Lloyd was the Nintendo Tales rep, and this probably hurt him where it counted: on the Ballot. But, apparently Alucard was more popular for a Castlevania character than any other, but Sakurai still chose Simon since he felt that's what fans would prefer, so there's hope for him yet. Plus, if Mii Costume theory holds water, then I'd bet on this guy since Heihachi and Lloyd are both Mii Costumes. If it's jank, though, he's screwed.

Yuri's Want: I would abstain, but this guy is in competition to Lloyd (not so sure on intra-company like many believe, but intra-series competition is definitely a thing), but at the same time he's very popular and a lot of people would be very happy to see him in. I'll give him a 25% because of that.

More Bosses x 5. Now that they're both spared,

 

[Sid-cada]

Lloyd Irving

Chance - 15% - Sakurai himself stated that Lloyd was the only choice available for representing the Tales of franchise, at least for costumes. I think it's safe to say that if the franchise gets chosen it's him. That said, perhaps it's me underestimating the series, but I'm not certain they have enough star power to get in. He's probaly one of the more likely Namco representatives.

Want - 40% - Not really caring. I guess I can take him, if he has an interesting enough moveset?


Yuri Lowell

Chance - 2.5% - He might have a small edge in how popular he is among fans of the series. That said, the above statement from Sakurai does not give me much hope at all for him.

Want - 40% - Really the same as Lloyd. I don't care much about any RPGs, honestly.


Predictions

Rayman - 2.24% - Probably the Ubisoft pick, were he not a spirit.

Ezio - 5.35% - He's the second choice.


Nominations

Cadence X5

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Yeah we did kind of underrate Erdrick but that was when we first rated him when first leaked. After he was rerated (due to a very diligent person nominating him) his scores were way more accurate. Banjo tho was low but few people were that high on Banjo at the time.

I am glad we are seeing more debate, but a universal reminder to meet the 2 sentences per score reasoning. Furthermore I explicitly said do not lump the scores of these two. If I like a post, consider it has my blessing as one scores reasoning behind it covered both. If not, yeah.

If your posts today do not meet this, please edit them. Also do not forget to predict what Rayman and Ezio will get tomorrow and don’t forget you have x5 noms for any character or concept.

 

[Troykv]

Lloyd Irving:

Chance: 40%

Probably the most likely character from Tales of to appear in Smash, Lloyd has been helped for the fact he had going for him a fandom wanting him in Smash since lot a long, and it seems they would actually got what they wanted based on the fact Sakurai acknowledge Lloyd Irving in Smash 4 DLC as a Mii Custome, something that I kept in mind since the moment K. Rool was added to Smash.

Want: 50%

He looks fine, the sword would be cool.

Yuri Lowell:

Chance: 35%

Probably the second most likely character from Tales of to appear in Smash; Yuri is essencially what it's Cloud for Final Fantasy (but without as much legacy... yet), with being the most popular character of his franchise with difference, and don't really have a connection with Nintendo until very very recently. I think the main reason I don't see Yuri as the most likely it's because Cloud actually had been continuosly request as a Smash Bros Character, even to the point of be memed; which has some value because it talks about how invested people it's to this character and Smash.

Want: 50%

He looks fine, I don't know how he fights though xD

____

Predictions:

Rayman: 9.6%
Ezio: 11.2%

Nominations:

Micaiah (Fire Emblem) x5

 

[GoodGrief741]

Apparently, Yuri is to Tales what Cloud is to Final Fantasy (or rather, what Erdrick is to Dragon Quest), so I'd give him the edge over Lloyd for that.

Yuri is like Cloud if Cloud wasn't famous and FF7 wasn't the best seller in the franchise.

 

[StormC]

Yuri is like Cloud if Cloud wasn't famous and FF7 wasn't the best seller in the franchise.

What's the highest selling Tales game? Surely it's Vesperia between the multiple releases.

 

[GoodGrief741]

What's the highest selling Tales game? Surely it's Vesperia between the multiple releases.

Afaik it's Symphonia, but let me check.

Edit: Damn, Vesperia's sales suck. Even with the rerelease it doesn't crack 2mil. According to Wikipedia Vesperia with rerelease and across all territories and consoles sold around 1.580.193 units. Symphonia did at least 1.6 in just its original release.

 

[FeidaMack]

Lloyd is much more likely considering his history with Smash in the past. However, Yuri's popularity is through the roof in the east (apparently they had to remove him from popularity polls cause he always won?).

Lloyd brings much more to the table when considering a unique fighter. Sure, Yuri has kicks, punches and spins but you can't really beat the idea of being the first dual-wielding sword character in smash.

inb4 Velvet's in smash

 

[andree123]

Lloyd is very likely to be in smash because of Sakurai. 90%

While Yuri..... Sakurai will not choose him at all. 0%

If Lloyd get a Hero-like alternative costume characters, I think that Yuri will one of them.