Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes

[GoodGrief741]

Katalina

Want: 0%
Don’t care about her, and look bland. Ice powers are nice, but i prefer the FE Heroes protagonist from the second book more.

Chances:0,01
Only Hitagi made her considered, and he scrapped the character in the end. She can join like any other character in gaming, but that’s about it.

Nominees: Eight/Hero from Dragon Quest 8 and Adeleine.

You have to say how many nominations for each.

 

[Deleted member]

You have to say how many nominations for each.

Didn’t know that.

The number has to be from 1 to 100? Or more?

 

[GoodGrief741]

Didn’t know that.

The number has to be from 1 to 100? Or more?

You get 5 noms per day, you can assign them as you please.

 

[Deleted member]

Thanks for the help!

I will edit my post then.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Sorry for the double day. I had a major issue I had to resolve personally. Nothing too serious but it took up all of yesterday.

Katalina

1% Chance

Gacha is something that can be considered. It is a big money maker. That being said, I would put Katalina lower on my list of things for gacha. FE Heroes already exists. However, even going further I would say Dragalia Lost and Fate GO are better choices. Fate GO is massive and is a huge money maker. In hindsight, Saber should have been on the schedule but it slipped my mind at the time. Dragalia lost is actually first party unlike Granblue. Nintendo may try to push its own gacha rather than Cygames'.

The big elephant is Hitagi. Hitaji claimed this, we put it on the schedule. they backpedaled. IMO, the only leaker I put any stock in is one that for smash has a good track record or seems like it has sufficient evidence. I believed the Ken leak. I believed Vergeben grudgingly for a time, only not having confidence in the pokemon part due to personal bias and worries of a feedback loop. I went hard on the Grinch leak. I do not believe Hitaji to be honest, even Verge seemed skeptical.

0% Want

No connection, cool design but I would prefer not to have her. I would rather get a character that is not super region exclusive and not a gacha.

Sephiroth x 5

Today we are rating Tails. You know who he is so I do not wanna see any "abstain i dont know who this is".

Tomorrow is Elma from Xenoblade X. Predict her.

As a side note, I will bring up details on the abstaintion policy and possible revisions, but I would like more hard data on it. I would say using our fixed schedule and looking for the % of posts that abstain would be a good path forward.

In case you want to know why I am so fixated on a change to this, it is because as of late in the game, discussion has become a bit stifled. I have done things to try to force more discussion. The effort rule of 2 sentences was made to ensure that there would be sufficient thought in ratings and maybe foster debate. As of now though, abstaining has hurt discussion a bit in my eyes. If many people come in, just abstain on characters and then they nominate who they want, then people will just keep abstaining on days until its that one character they want to discuss.

I also hate when people say abstain I do not know who this is. I as of late have tried to give a general blurb about them. I put their franchise in the title, and I have also bumped support threads if they have one. Also google is a tab away. I want this game to be one of intellectual discussion and smash speculation. An oxymoron given our mediocre track record I know. I feel when we engage in good debates and research we get our best results. The recap days after E3 were strong for speculation. Some of my favorite days have some great debate. Having people just pass does not push the game further.

Now I do not want to penalize people who abstain, but reward people who actively participate. I feel something like abstaining gets 5x noms while participating gets 10x is fair.

Real quick, today while rating tails give your opinions on this.

 

[Deleted member]

Tails:
Chance: 25%, We never had two characters from a 3rd party series, except for echoes. BUT, I easily see Tails being the one that'll break these norms. He has fan demand, real popular, and has great moveset potential.
Want: 90%, my second most wanted SEGA newcomer. However not getting a Hundred because that'll be reserved for Beat, because Tails is not my most wanted SEGA Character




Predictions: Elma: 14%



Nominations
Freddi Fish and Luther x5




EDIT: FIRST!!!! (To reply to Tails day)
EDIT 2: I agree with ya, hundred percent think Abstains should be 5, and participators get 10. that's fair.

 

[Deleted member]

FIRST OF MANY FRIENDS

Chance:
Tails is Sonic’s best friend, debuting in Sonic 2 in 1992. He’s essentially the Luigi to Sonic’s Mario, having been around for almost as long as the hedgehog himself. He’s know for his mechanical genius and ability to fly, and has appeared in many games to this very day, usually in an important role, granting him a rather high level of iconicity. With Sonic already in smash and Shadow and Knuckles out, Tails as one of the most popular and recognisable characters in the sonic franchise would make sense as a newcomer. He certainly has the potential for a unique moveset, and he’s such a well-known character that he would certainly draw attention as DLC. Despite his popularity however, he has some big drawbacks. It seems likely that with the DLC, Nintendo is trying to draw in people who may not be interested in smash to the game. Tails is a sonic character, so it wouldn’t exactly make much sense if they were aiming to do this to include him, as th audience is already interested in Smash with Sonic. In addition, Joker is a Sega character as well, and he’s already been revealed at TGA at request of Nintendo themselves.
This makes it seem that Joker is one of the bigger names in the pack, and Tails is certainly more popular than Joker which puts doubt in his chances. It also seems unlikely to me that they would have two Sega characters in the same pack.
15%
He’s not impossible, I just don’t feel characters from franchises already in smash are particularly likely with the way DLC seems to be headed.
(shorter than usual eh?)

Want :
I think Tails would be a neat character. With his gadgets he has the potential for a very unique moveset that could be a ton of fun, but there’s other third-parties I’d prefer. Plus I’m not the biggest Sonic fan, and even within Sonic I’d like Eggman more.
40%

Noms:Ezio x5

Oh and on that abstain question, I don’t have a strong opinion but I think an idea like that could work.

 

[Sari]

Tails

Chance: 10%
With Shadow seemingly deconfirmed, Tails is probably the most likely Sonic newcomer at this rate. Since Atlus is just an offshoot of Sega, I don't think Joker's inclusion hurts Tails' chances too much, but then again I don't think they were all that great to begin with.

Want: 45%
Tails is my most wanted Sonic newcomer after Robotnik. He is incredibly iconic and I'm genuinely surprised we haven't gotten another Sonic newcomer yet. Want score would be a bit higher if there weren't limited openings for DLC characters.

Elma chance prediction: 18.56% (I honestly have no idea how this day is gonna go)

Nominations:
Concept: SNK rep x5

 

[TheCJBrine]

Miles the Two-Tailed Fox & Knuckles:

Want: 100% - I like Sonic the Hedgehog, and Tails would be an excellent second character in my opinion, since he is Sonic's sidekick and all. I'd also like Knuckles, Eggman, Shadow, Metal Sonic, and Amy, though if we were to get any second Sonic character, I think it'd have to be Tails or Shadow, more-so Tails.

Chance: 20% - Ignoring leaks, Tails seems like he has a decent chance, however Nintendo seems to be trying to include new franchises so I dunno if they'd go for another Sonic character, especially since we have only had Sonic since Brawl and Shadow would've been an obvious Echo Fighter for Ultimate. If there is a second Sonic character in the DLC, however, then I believe Tails would have a very high chance of being said character.

Nominations:

Ninten x3
Creeper x2



-The idea for abstains seems good imo.

 

[Ornl]

Tails
- The rule in Smash Bros is that third-party characters have only one non-Echo representation: 1 Metal Gear fighter, 1 Final Fantasy fighter, etc.
- Tails is not the hero of Sonic. Sonic is the hero of Sonic.
- Joker is already a Sega representative.
- Dixie wasn't chosen, and Tails can't be chosen until Dixie.
- Tails is a good concept of Assist Trophee.
Chance : 0%.
Want : 0%.

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

Kilometers
Chance: 1%
Sega already has 3 representatives right now so I have my doubts in getting a second Sonic character, atleast with an mostly original moveset anyway. With Shadow out of the picture you'd think he would be next in line if there are still plans for a Sonic echo but Sakurai did think Isabelle was unfitting to be a echo of Villager, so Tails could suffer from the same issues. Metal Sonic might actually be likelier because of that.

Want: 65%
I prefer Eggman, but I'd also be down with Sonic's sidekick. Deserves it much more than Shadow imo.

Elma: 14.72%
Hollow Knight x5

I also agree there should be less abstaining. It's fine to abstain in want if you have no experience with a character but atleast bother to think how likely they are.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Tails
- The rule in Smash Bros is that third-party characters have only one non-Echo representation: 1 Metal Gear fighter, 1 Final Fantasy fighter, etc.
- Tails is not the hero of Sonic. Sonic is the hero of Sonic.
- Joker is already a Sega representative.
- Dixie wasn't chosen, and Tails can't be chosen until Dixie.
- Tails is a good concept of Assist Trophee.
Chance : 0%.
Want : 0%.

Let me dissect this post and tell you why this will not be counted.

1. Bad arguments. The Dixie point in particular is in my opinion one of the worst points in this threads history. Arguing that a character that realistically does not have any connection to Tails should be in first is not a good argument. The other points also fall flat, especially given that we do not have any precedent for ATs as DLC.

2. Going off pre existing patterns for justification for a zero is a poor argument. For starters, Piranha Plant exists, so giving out hard zeros is a bit of a hard thing to do. However, going off of a pattern that already has moved the goalpost so much within the past 4 years (no second third parties from a single franchise was originally no company gets a second rep, now it is non echo).

3. The hero point also is weird and feels like a random criticism.

Expect posts like this to not factor into the scores.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Tails

Chance: 0.01%

-We just got Joker revealed, who's the 3rd Sega Rep.
-Sega would likely want to have another new IP again to promote like Puyo Puyo or Valkyria Chronicles for their 4th rep if they somehow get another one.

Want: 5%

-I don't dislike Tails
-I'd prefer other Sega IPs getting the spotlight instead of Sonic all the time.

Elma Prediction: 8.78%

Nominate DLC Story Expansion x5

 

[Ridrool64]

Arms the Magical Kitsune

Chance: 2%. Firstly, he's a spirit. Second, he's present on a stage, though since it's a background character with no active role it doesn't matter too much. But the biggest, and most important deal, is Joker. We might get two SEGA characters, but I kinda doubt it, and if we do right now I don't think it'll be him, but Arle or [insert Valkyria Chronicles Character] or Kazuma Kiryu. In Wave 2, it'll be him or Eggman, but that's Wave 2, something we can't prove exists, and something I wouldn't hold my breath on. His only hope is that they don't count Joker officially as a SEGA character, just Atlus. If anybody will break the barrier of "third party series only get one unique rep" (which, while I'm counting on it still, isn't the end-all-be-all anymore), I'd put Tails first in line.

Want: 50%. Joker did many things to my emotions, but one of them was sparing Tails from the 0% I had planned for him. All for the crime of being Arle competition. Everything else, I like about him: his character arc, his gameplay abilities, and my childhood did involve a lot of the yellow fox. I think he has a lot of potential to bring to Smash Bros., and since Joker massively softened the blow, I no longer consider him the worst case scenario. And I can finally want him a little more than Steve even, since everybody except Crash and Banjo (and, well, Arle and Paper Mario, who I'm not counting on) took a little hit in my want. That being said, he is still Arle competition. And between the two, I'd take Arle without a doubt.

Arle Nadja x 5, unless her being in the top 7 means that noms don't go through for them, in which case Sly Cooper x 5. Elma will have around 9.48% chance, being one of the likelier spirits and basically her entire chance coming down to if you think Spirits = disconfirmation at this point.

---

On the subject of bonuses for not abstaining, I support in regards to chance wholeheartedly, but when it comes to want, I'd rather not see a perfectly fine character have their want score tanked for the crime of "not everybody has played their game". Still, I'd be down for it regardless.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Millimeters

Chance: 1%
The boy has credentials, but I just don’t see him being a DLC pick. While there are certainly Sonic stages and using that could come with him, there’s nothing blatantly missing and Sonic has good representation as is. Plus, Shadow not being an Echo (and Sonic’s relatively uncreative moveset) speak to Sakurai not really giving a **** about Sonic. Also, he’s a Spirit and with Joker in I doubt we’ll get a second SEGA character.

Want: 90%
Would prefer Shadow or Eggman but Tails is iconic and cool and really that’s all you should need to be in Smash.

Nominations: Mach RiderX5

I have no opinion on the abstain nominations matter.

Tails
- The rule in Smash Bros is that third-party characters have only one non-Echo representation: 1 Metal Gear fighter, 1 Final Fantasy fighter, etc.
- Tails is not the hero of Sonic. Sonic is the hero of Sonic.
- Joker is already a Sega representative.
- Dixie wasn't chosen, and Tails can't be chosen until Dixie.
- Tails is a good concept of Assist Trophee.
Chance : 0%.
Want : 0%.

This made me laugh so much. Thank you for that.

Now let’s dissect this.

There is no rule that says a third party franchise can have only 1 unique representative.

Many non-main heroes are in Smash. Case in point: Ken and Richter.

While I agree with you on the Joker front, it’s worth noting that nothing prevents a company from getting two DLC characters.

What the **** does Dixie have to do with Tails???

Little Mac, Dark Samus and Isabelle were also good Assist Trophy concepts, didn’t keep them from being playable.

 

[Ornl]

1. Bad arguments. The Dixie point in particular is in my opinion one of the worst points in this threads history. Arguing that a character that realistically does not have any connection to Tails should be in first is not a good argument. The other points also fall flat, especially given that we do not have any precedent for ATs as DLC.

What the **** does Dixie have to do with Tails???

Wrong arbitrary judgment. Dixie has a lot of similarities with Tails, since he is a character secondary to the series, but playable, able to move in the air without having wings.

2. Going off pre existing patterns for justification for a zero is a poor argument. For starters, Piranha Plant exists, so giving out hard zeros is a bit of a hard thing to do. However, going off of a pattern that already has moved the goalpost so much within the past 4 years (no second third parties from a single franchise was originally no company gets a second rep, now it is non echo).

Wrong arbitrary judgment. Each third-party license has only one representative. It's a fact, and a rule that is confirmed with Joker, Erdrick. If you do not agree, Just say "I do not agree", not "it is a poor argument".

3. The hero point also is weird and feels like a random criticism.

Wrong arbitrary judgment. That's your interpretation, so your problem. Pac-Man is the hero of Pac-Man, Belmont is the hero of Catlevania. Snake is the hero of Metal Gear, Ryu is the icon of Street Fighter, Megaman is the hero of Megaman, Bayonetta is the hero of Bayonetta, Cloud is the icon of FF. Joker is the hero of Persona. Sonic is the hero of Sonic. Not Tails. Sonic.

In addition, if one of my arguments is good (Tails is a 3rd Sega Rep), then the forecast is good. By considering each detail in their entirety, the details add up. And the addition reinforces the argument as a whole. Thank you for not keeping an attitude of rejection based on subjective judgments with abuse of authority, and avoid wasting my time and energy.

There is no rule that says a third party franchise can have only 1 unique representative.

I must be clairvoyant, maybe. Or somebody is blind. One or the other.

Many non-main heroes are in Smash. Case in point: Ken and Richter.

I presided "Non-Echo". Read better -____-

 

[Ridrool64]

Wrong arbitrary judgment. Dixie has a lot of similarities with Tails, since he is a character secondary to the series, but playable, able to move in the air without having wings.

While I also disagree with most of your points, I'm going to address this argument in particular. While Dixie is superficially similar to that of Mr. Prower, she is the tertiary Kong, while Tails is the primary deuteragonist in almost every single appearance he makes.
Dixie glides, Tails flies, meaning they have different applications for their flight, and the two also have a myriad of other distinctions. Your reasoning for this doesn't really hold up except on a basic level.

...yes, I'm mostly trying to talk about this one because I'm pretty sure you'll say the same thing on Arle day, except sub Tails for Arle and Dixie for Lip.

Also, openly talking about who Brave probably is? Not the best. Not everybody wants to know that. And hell, it might not even be who you think it is. It's extremely likely, sure, and I agree on who it presumably is, but it's just not cool.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Spoiler: Nominations post-Katalina pre-Tails

Arle Nadja x370
Rhythm Girl x330
Concept: All DLC will be third-party x320
Hollow Knight x277
Nero Claudius (Fate) x260
Grovyle (Pokémon Mystery Dungeon) x243
Mach Rider x240
Concept: Stages outside Fighter Pass x240
Reimu Hakurei x240

Over 200

Reaper (Overwatch) x226
Concept: Gen 8 Pokemon x221
Concept: More DLC x220


200 - 151

Concept: SNK rep x170
Sephiroth x160

150 - 101


Professor Hector x131
Kat & Ana x130
Concept: No fan favorite/highly requested characters x130
Dark Matter x130
Ravio x130
Andy (Advance Wars) x120
Ryota Hayami x120
Dante x115
Amy Rose x115
Shy Guy x115
Bonkers (Kirby) x115
Ezio Auditore da Firenze x115
Arthas Menethil (Warcraft) x110
Brash the Bear x110
Sly Cooper x110
Concept: Boss Rush x110
Magikarp x109
Q*Bert x108
Maxwell (Scribblenauts) x106
Impa x101
Porky Minch x101

100 - 51


Tracer x100
Concept: 100 characters (counting Echo Fighters and Miis/Pokémon Trainer as 3) x100
Monster Hunter x100
Poochy x100
Cranky Kong x100
Vaati x100
Concept: World of Light expansion x105
Nathan Drake x100
Concept: Microsoft Rep x100
Aloy x100
Protector (Etrian Odyssey) x100
Concept: Undertale rep x100
Concept: Third-party character from unrepped Company x95
Lora (Xenoblade) x90
Boss: Kracko x85
Concept: Style Savvy rep x80
Hat Kid x70
9-Volt x69
Spyro x52


50 - 25

Creeper x45
Papyrus x41
Frisk x40
Concept: Assist Trophy becomes Fighter x30
Ninten x27
Thrall (Warcraft) x25
Cooking Mama x25
Freddi Fish and Luther (Freddi Fish) x25

Under 25

Boss: Perfect Chaos x20
Kamek x20
Earthworm Jim x20
Hector (Fire Emblem) x15
Pyra & Mythra (sans Rex) x15
Concept: Dragalia Lost rep x10
Decidueye x10
Concept: Bethesda rep x10
Frog (Chrono Trigger) x10
Amaterasu x10
Beat (Jet Set Radio) x10
Tora and Poppi x10
Concept: Spectator Emotes x10
Concept: Spirits aren’t disconfirmations x10
Blacephalon x5
Zhao Yun (Dynasty Warriors) x5
Monokuma x5
Concept: Another joke character x5
Neptune x5
Concept: Crazi Taxi rep x5
Oliver (Ni No Kuni) x5
Ryu Hayabusa x5
Concept: Free updates (Splatoon-style) x5
Courier (Fallout) x5
Scorpion x5
Concept: Another literally who Level-5 Character who's popular in Japan, like Achilles or Mark Evans x5
Starman (Pro Wrestling) x5
Brian (Quest 64) x5
Lizalfos x4
Toon Zelda x3
Eight (Dragon Quest) x3
Boss: Sans x2
Adeleine (Kirby) x2
Urbosa x1
Stahl x1
[Rerate] Steve? x1

Reimu Hakurei joins the top seven and is in a three-way tie with Mach Rider and Stages outside the Fighter Pass. I think this ends with me having to nominate Mach Rider for another week.

Concept: World of Light expansion crosses 100 noms.

*sigh* Freddi Fish and Luther swim up to 25 noms.

Today’s newcomers are Brian (with 5 noms), Eight (with 3), and Adeleine (with 2).

Wrong arbitrary judgment. Dixie has a lot of similarities with Tails, since he is a character secondary to the series, but playable, able to move in the air without having wings.


Wrong arbitrary judgment. Each third-party license has only one representative. It's a fact, and a rule that is confirmed with Joker, Erdrick. If you do not agree, Just say "I do not agree", not "it is a poor argument".


Wrong arbitrary judgment. That's your interpretation, so your problem. Pac-Man is the hero of Pac-Man, Belmont is the hero of Catlevania. Snake is the hero of Metal Gear, Ryu is the icon of Street Fighter, Megaman is the hero of Megaman, Bayonetta is the hero of Bayonetta, Cloud is the icon of FF. Joker is the hero of Persona. Sonic is the hero of Sonic. Not Tails. Sonic.

In addition, if one of my arguments is good (Tails is a 3rd Sega Rep), then the forecast is good. By considering each detail in their entirety, the details add up. And the addition reinforces the argument as a whole. Thank you for not keeping an attitude of rejection based on subjective judgments with abuse of authority, and avoid wasting my time and energy.



I must be clairvoyant, maybe. Or somebody is blind. One or the other.

I presided "Non-Echo". Read better -____-

Wow, what a ****ing prick.

You should really take a logic class. You can’t confirm a premise by its conclusions. Just because something happens several times does not mean it’s a rule.

Also if Tails and Dixie are the same (as you hilariously claim) then either one can get in before the other.

 

[RealPokeFan11]

MILES PROWER
Chance: 10%
Want: 75%

A Sonic character that I actually care about! Tails was my favorite character back when I played the Sonic Advance series on my GBA as a kid. At the time, it was my second favorite video game series next to Pokémon. I haven't considered it back in Smash 4, but I think Tails would make a great inclusion. Shadow and Knuckles are assists, leaving the next two major characters, Tails and Dr Eggman up for contention. For whatever reason though, Tails and Eggman, who are the next two major characters after Sonic himself, are spirits. Honestly this role doesn't seem right for these characters. Eggman would make an amazing boss in classic mode or WoL. And Tails maybe could've fit as an assist trophy. But I'd rather see him as a playable character. I think he would fit the role of a semiclone of Sonic, sharing some of his moves while having some new moves of his own. I mostly only play 2D Sonic, so he maybe could use some tech/weaponry from his 3D games, but idk. He's going in my most wanted section after this anyways. His chances are low because SEGA has 3 characters in the roster. Sonic, Bayonetta, and Joker. Platinum Games is partnered with Sega, and Atlus is owned by Sega. I doubt they are gonna add a fourth Sega character so soon after Joker was revealed.

Elma: 12.73%

Reaper x5

ABSTINATION RULE: I think this is a great idea, because it provides an incentive to participate, without punishing a user who abstains. I support! However if someone only abstains from one score, and rates the other, I think they should still get 10x noms because they at least participated in some form.

Tails
- The rule in Smash Bros is that third-party characters have only one non-Echo representation: 1 Metal Gear fighter, 1 Final Fantasy fighter, etc.
- Tails is not the hero of Sonic. Sonic is the hero of Sonic.
- Joker is already a Sega representative.
- Dixie wasn't chosen, and Tails can't be chosen until Dixie.
- Tails is a good concept of Assist Trophee.
Chance : 0%.
Want : 0%.

#1: This is currently the case with third parties, but there is no "rule" that states only one non echo character can be represented in a third party series in Smash.

#2: Does that mean Luigi isn't allowed in Smash because he's "not the main hero"? Tails, like Luigi, is the player two of the series. Though this claim would make more sense if Sonic himself wasn't in Smash yet. But he is, so that means another character from the series is up for contention.

#3: So are Sonic and Bayonetta. While this does decrease his chances, this does not disconfirm him unless he becomes an assist trophy, Mii costume, or the company outright disconfirms him in the same vein as Master Chief, Travis, and Dante.

#4:

What does Dixie have anything to do with Tails??? Just because they can fly? This argument is completely invalid. It's like saying Banjo isn't allowed because he has a bird for a partner, or Celica isn't allowed because she has a sword.

#5: Tails can work as an assist, but that doesn't mean he has zero chance. (also 10/10 spelling)

Thanks for making me laugh

I guess...

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Fox Luigi

Chance: 1%
Want: 100%

Ultimate has really been allowing some characters to shine and giving the spotlight to practically everyone. Then there are the few characters who somehow still managed to get a downgrade from Sm4sh...

I'm not gonna latch onto the "Joker is SEGA so no more SEGAs" argument - after all, that argument is always discounted whenever we rate someone from Capcom. Still, it is true that no third party has managed to get more than one unique moveset...so far. We've got two with echoes (with varying levels of echo uniqueness), showing that "Echo" basically means "whatever we need it to mean." As such, I think the best chance a Sonic character has is getting an echo.

Of all the third parties in the game, Sonic's the one that's stuck with Smash most consistently (having been introduced in Brawl and not dropped since...and even having been considered for Melee). That means that Sonic's been around longer than about half the cast. Sonic's also the third party franchise with the best history with Nintendo - again not necessarily for having Sonic games on the systems, but for having the rivalry in the 90s in the first place. We love to bring up Crash or Rayman as respective company mascots, but none of them would have existed if it weren't for the war of the cute cartoon mascots in the early 90s. Sonic actually managed to get the first video game character balloon in the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade (and then was immediately discarded when it blew over and hurt someone, but that's not to do with him as a character). Sonic feels like he should have a special place even among the guests in Smash - the Sonic crew has crossed over with Mario's gang several times since Sega stopped making consoles, but in fact they haven't been getting much love in that department.

Now why Tails? He's well known as Sonic's best friend, he's always been considered the Luigi to Sonic's Mario. When a lot of us were kids, some people had an NES so they played Mario and their younger sibling took Luigi (or they were the younger one who got Luigi). But others had a Genesis, so Tails is right there in our minds for that set. Don't forget the EGM April Fools joke in 2002 - It wasn't just Sonic in Melee, it was Sonic and Tails. It's really only recently that Tails has started to get a bit of a bad reputation since he's been getting recharacterized as a whiny little kid (which he is supposed to be about half Sonic's age) now that the team has expanded to include the badass edgemaster, the dumb muscle, and the love interest. Even so, we could poll a lot of people as to how many really like Luigi for being Luigi when compared to the rest of the Mario crew...but even if he's not everyone's favorite since Peach/Bowser/Daisy/Wario/Yoshi exist, that doesn't stop him from being known as Mario's brother, partner, and therefore important to the cast.

Smash has had a use for Tails in the past - we all know that he, Knux, and Silver will run across GHZ. Sometimes. But Sm4sh also brought a Tails Mii outfit (if we're getting one again, can we get a mask instead of a mascot head though please?), along with the Knux outfit. For Ultimate, Knux got promoted to assist trophy, and Tails got demoted to ... nothing but his GHZ flyby. He's also a Spirit, which I usually count as a disconfirm...at least from DLC pack 1. And while we have important side characters from other game franchises like Master Belch from Mother as primary, Tails is stuck as a support spirit to boost the power of the Up special move...rgiht next to the Shine Sprite and the Wind Fish, which boost all specials for the same number of slots. It's almost like Tails' Spirit was made completely redundant, further showing him into unimportance.

Now, when Daisy and the concept of 'echoes' came out, everyone latched onto Shadow. True, Shadow'd make an easier echo. But, Tails' first appearance in Sonic 2 was just as an alternate skin. Tails couldn't fly through the level when you were playing as him; he acted just like Sonic. Even in the Sonic fighting game, Tails shared a lot of animations with Sonic himself. Could he be unique? Yeah. So could Daisy and Dark Samus. I really wouldn't mind Tails as a Sonic echo - and Sakurai could make it work if he wanted to. Let's face it, if he only flew around in his winposes and taunts (so basically acted as he did in his debut game), that'd almost be as ridiculous as Ganondorf only using a sword in winposes and taunts - and it's worked fine until now. Sure, we'd all appreciate if that changed and he used them more (which only took 17 years), but we all accepted him as Ganondorf then. I'd feel the same with Tails.

I'd love if Tails was gonna come in the pack, but that's almost impossible. The Sonic franchise could definitely use another stage that's not Green Hill, considering how many of the songs are much more urban. I feel like the only way Tails could get in now would be if they do decide to give us bonus echoes along with the Mii costumes (or even DLC orginal character costumes?). I'd definitely pay for those, and Sakurai and co. have admitted that echoes are made because they're easier (and sharing stats allows them to balance them exponentially quicker). Oh, and in this case, the Spirit would be easy enough to handle as well. If they spent a while for each Spirit planning a battle, it's unlikely they're just gonna cut one. But now that there's no text attached, it'd be easy to just swap out the Spirit and use the current art for the Fighter Spirit. Tails' current Spirit would work perfectly if they just wanted to swap it out for the Tornado (Tails' biplane), and then nobody has to lose it. Or just ignore it, that works too...

However, the DLC isn't really looking that promising. I'll save most of this for its day, but it doesn't seem like Sakurai is that enthused about DLC. Sure, this will make bank for Nintendo and they should support it for years, but Sakurai doesn't seem like the kind of guy who'd hand the reins to someone else for DLC, and he continually talks about how he wants to step away. Thus, I'm basically considering this game will have less DLC than Sm4sh. And since we got that bomb dropped yesterday (I'm on team real for this leak - it seems too legit, even if it's basically a list of the names that will hype me the absolute least), it's really looking like he's not there, so he's out.

"We can only get one third party per company, and it has to be the main character" is another one of those infinite fanrules we've made up (and isn't it demonstrably false anyway, considering that Ken is almost more unique than Dr. Mario and Joker isn't the main character of the Persona franchise, only P5?) Tails is just being held back since he's not as "cool" as some of the other options in the franchise. And if Smash is considered a way to kickstart franchises, why not give the Sonic games a boost. We know they're gonna need one once we get more info on this movie...

(images are broken, so this is a pic of Mario and Luigi vs. Sonic and Tails)...Ahh, that'd be the dream...

Nom: More DLC x5

I'll answer the abstention thing in a sec - It's ending up longer than I thought and this post is already long enough.

 

[Deleted member]

*sigh* Freddi Fish and Luther swim up to 25 noms.

"LOOK MOMMY!!! I did that!!"

"(mother whispers to father) I think our son's autistic"

but what they didn't know, was that I actually was.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Wrong arbitrary judgment. Dixie has a lot of similarities with Tails, since he is a character secondary to the series, but playable, able to move in the air without having wings.


Wrong arbitrary judgment. Each third-party license has only one representative. It's a fact, and a rule that is confirmed with Joker, Erdrick. If you do not agree, Just say "I do not agree", not "it is a poor argument".


Wrong arbitrary judgment. That's your interpretation, so your problem. Pac-Man is the hero of Pac-Man, Belmont is the hero of Catlevania. Snake is the hero of Metal Gear, Ryu is the icon of Street Fighter, Megaman is the hero of Megaman, Bayonetta is the hero of Bayonetta, Cloud is the icon of FF. Joker is the hero of Persona. Sonic is the hero of Sonic. Not Tails. Sonic.

In addition, if one of my arguments is good (Tails is a 3rd Sega Rep), then the forecast is good. By considering each detail in their entirety, the details add up. And the addition reinforces the argument as a whole. Thank you for not keeping an attitude of rejection based on subjective judgments with abuse of authority, and avoid wasting my time and energy.



I must be clairvoyant, maybe. Or somebody is blind. One or the other.

I presided "Non-Echo". Read better -____-

1. Dixie is first-party, Tails is 3rd-party, neither is gonna get in the other's way, especially since they would only share one similar move in their moveset that could still be made different (they're not gonna give a crap about both being secondary characters if they're considering them, and if a 3rd-party character is negotiated, they're gonna add them).

2. I thought the only Smash rule was "Sakurai and Nintendo do whatever the [censored] they want." I mean, fan-rules get broken a lot around here, and a fan-rule is exactly what this is. While Nintendo seems to be going for new franchises, I'll admit, there's nothing saying this is 100%, and they may even go for a second character from the same 3rd-party franchise someday.

3. "Mario is the hero of the Super Mario series, Kirby is the hero of the Kirby series, Pikachu is the most-iconic Pokemon, etc., so we don't need other characters from those franchises!" They don't care, Sonic is already in, so Tails is an obvious second choice if they double-dip.

4. Using "they're echo fighters" as an excuse is an example of moving the goalposts, as he was saying.

5. "Wrong arbitrary judgment" "your interpretation, your problem" You could argue without using annoying statements that someone may as well throw back at you since they sound more like insults/an excuse to try and make your argument look good (which it just makes it look worse).

 

[CaptainAmerica]

As to the question of abstentions, I think that's a problem that's been going for a while, and I feel may affect our calculations. The biggest issue is we have people who use differing rating scales: does a 0% want mean complete indifference, or complete dislike, or even just 'we only have a few slots and I've got someone else I want.' We do seem to throw abstentions to characters we don't know right away, and I think it's to avoid looking like the ******* who doesn't like something - some of the previous days have devolved into arguments since someone presents an opinion that they dislike a character, which then seems to offend that characters' support thread. In essence, the only characters getting 0% ratings for want are the ones it's "acceptable" to dislike, other niche characters are given abstentions instead. I'd argue that an abstention on want is meaningless since everyone has to have an opinion, even if said opinion is "I'm indifferent." It also depends on whether you're taking the current roster into consideration - I've never rated want in a vacuum; my want ratings are based on the prospect of a limited roster size, so I give lots of 0%'s since in general I'd like to see other characters over those who get rated (and if I did get my top two, I'd start giving 100%'s to everyone).

Now as to a chance abstention, that's something that's more easy to see, particularly if it's for a larger concept. Sakurai's shown himself to be unpredictable, so it's much more understandable if someone can't predict him.

As to why people are abstaining more than they used to... I have a few theories. Nothing tested, but this is just the feeling I've gotten from the thread. I think a lot of it has to do with people caring enough to give a rating, or not caring and just abstaining, again, going back to this idea that nobody wants to be the one to **** on someone's dreams.

I think one of the other issues that has frustrated people in this thread is the enforcement of the new discussion rule - We now seem more concerned with the fact that someone has used the correct number of periods than whether or not there is an argument. I'd actually vote the repeal of this one. As yet, "He's only in one game. That game flopped. I like him. He looks cool." follows the rules enough to be a legit rating, but "While the game didn't do that well overseas, it did end up drawing a massive fanbase in the states to the extent that several other companies have tried to make their own expies of it. The game itself may not have been the most exciting, but the character showed amazing development, and has nearly limitless moveset potential." is not appropriate (true, it could be made appropriate by splitting clauses, but that's just being particular about grammar). I think people are more hesitant to give a rating for characters they barely know, since they don't have much stock in it, don't seem to care much, and it's easier to just abstain then worry that you forgot a period so your noms aren't counted.

Another, and I definitely want to say that I'm not blaming anyone since I realize how much work it is, is that we haven't seen calcs in ages. We've still got discussion going for characters, but I'm sure many people are wondering why they should bother to put thought into giving a rating and defending it since those numbers never seem to get used for anything. Again, I realize how much work it is to do that so I want to be careful not to criticize, but I will point out the fact that if people don't see a point to giving a rating, then they are less likely to do so.

But realistically, I think the biggest issue is just the fact that leaks have been rampant this round - or at least we got a big name leaker very early, and we never got a reason to doubt him. There's really no way around it - leaks kill speculation since any rating can be summed up as "0/100 percent: Vergeben didn't/did say that." I even remember that the Sm4sh discussion was quashed for a while because of Gematsu, but exploded after Robin showed that Gematsu wasn't 100% (until the ESRB came by to shut things back down). What's the point of trying to dig through speculation when there is a much simpler answer coming from the General thread? And even then, some people try to avoid leaks, so they'll avoid this thread as well since people keep bringing the leaks up. Even now, it seems as if we've just gotten the leak that gives us the four remaining DLC slots, so it's tough to try to care about rating characters.

 

[Peripuff]

Chance: 1%, I really don't see Tails getting in, at least based off of what we know at the moment. This could change if another Fighter Pass is announced, but spots are limited at the moment, and the revelation of Joker, as well as the likelihood of all of the remaining DLC Fighters being characters that are not yet represented in Smash in any form, really hurts his chances, especially since Joker is a SEGA character. Tails is definitely possible, but I don't see him happening. However, if there were a character that would prove a 3rd Party series could have more than 1 unique representative, I have no doubt it would be Tails, he is pretty iconic to gaming as a whole and has a fair amount of popularity backing him up, I feel he would be likely in the case of a 2nd Fighter Pass, but as previously stated, the idea of a second Fighter Pass isn't terribly likely based on trends demonstrating how Nintendo tends to handle DLC, so until that gets confirmed, I'm keeping his chances at 1%.

Want: 100%, Tails is by far my most wanted, I love the Sonic series and love Tails as a character. If he (and Elma) were to get in, Smash Ultimate would be legitimately be the perfect game for me.

What a coincidence that my two most wanteds come right after another on RTC.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

Chance 80%: If we can have Richter, and Ken, why not have Tails. He'll most likely be the first 3rd party Semi-Clone.

Want: 100%: Although I hate Sonic, I still want Tails to be playable, along with Waluigi and Bomberman (In Smash 6).

 

[RealPokeFan11]

"LOOK MOMMY!!! I did that!!"

"(mother whispers to father) I think our son's autistic"

This, along with Ornl's arguments just made my day.

 

[Deleted member]

This, along with Ornl's arguments just made my day.

You're welcome.

 

[3DSNinja]

The Twin-Tailed Genius
Chance: 25%: I don't think it would happen. It does get extra points because it does make sense that they might have saved the second sonic rep for DLC.
Want:95%: Honestly my second choice after Shadow. Sonic deserves a second rep after Street fighter and Castlevania.
Nominations:
Shy Guy x5

 

[Lasatar]

Tails:

Chance: 0.5%. I really don't believe that they'd add another Sega rep after just adding Joker, and I really, REALLY don't believe that in the slim chance they did add another Sega rep, they'd choose to add another Sonic character instead of repping a completely new franchise. The fate of every third party character is to compete with other characters from the same company, and Tails really does have the odds stacked against him here. I'll eat my hat if he somehow overcomes these odds.

Want: 40%. No strong feelings one way or the other, but if I could have a second Sonic rep, I believe it should be Eggman instead of Tails.

Nominations: Reimu x5

 

[RouffWestie]

Tails
Chance: 0%
He doesn't have much reason to be in since he's already being represented as a Spirit. He also isn't very popular from what I've seen.

Want: 100%
I love sidekick characters. Tails was a big part of my childhood. I probably identified with him because I'm the younger brother of my family.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

"(mother whispers to father) I think our son's autistic"

Not cool.

As to the question of abstentions, I think that's a problem that's been going for a while, and I feel may affect our calculations. The biggest issue is we have people who use differing rating scales: does a 0% want mean complete indifference, or complete dislike, or even just 'we only have a few slots and I've got someone else I want.' We do seem to throw abstentions to characters we don't know right away, and I think it's to avoid looking like the ******* who doesn't like something - some of the previous days have devolved into arguments since someone presents an opinion that they dislike a character, which then seems to offend that characters' support thread. In essence, the only characters getting 0% ratings for want are the ones it's "acceptable" to dislike, other niche characters are given abstentions instead. I'd argue that an abstention on want is meaningless since everyone has to have an opinion, even if said opinion is "I'm indifferent." It also depends on whether you're taking the current roster into consideration - I've never rated want in a vacuum; my want ratings are based on the prospect of a limited roster size, so I give lots of 0%'s since in general I'd like to see other characters over those who get rated (and if I did get my top two, I'd start giving 100%'s to everyone).

Now as to a chance abstention, that's something that's more easy to see, particularly if it's for a larger concept. Sakurai's shown himself to be unpredictable, so it's much more understandable if someone can't predict him.

As to why people are abstaining more than they used to... I have a few theories. Nothing tested, but this is just the feeling I've gotten from the thread. I think a lot of it has to do with people caring enough to give a rating, or not caring and just abstaining, again, going back to this idea that nobody wants to be the one to **** on someone's dreams.

I think one of the other issues that has frustrated people in this thread is the enforcement of the new discussion rule - We now seem more concerned with the fact that someone has used the correct number of periods than whether or not there is an argument. I'd actually vote the repeal of this one. As yet, "He's only in one game. That game flopped. I like him. He looks cool." follows the rules enough to be a legit rating, but "While the game didn't do that well overseas, it did end up drawing a massive fanbase in the states to the extent that several other companies have tried to make their own expies of it. The game itself may not have been the most exciting, but the character showed amazing development, and has nearly limitless moveset potential." is not appropriate (true, it could be made appropriate by splitting clauses, but that's just being particular about grammar). I think people are more hesitant to give a rating for characters they barely know, since they don't have much stock in it, don't seem to care much, and it's easier to just abstain then worry that you forgot a period so your noms aren't counted.

Another, and I definitely want to say that I'm not blaming anyone since I realize how much work it is, is that we haven't seen calcs in ages. We've still got discussion going for characters, but I'm sure many people are wondering why they should bother to put thought into giving a rating and defending it since those numbers never seem to get used for anything. Again, I realize how much work it is to do that so I want to be careful not to criticize, but I will point out the fact that if people don't see a point to giving a rating, then they are less likely to do so.

But realistically, I think the biggest issue is just the fact that leaks have been rampant this round - or at least we got a big name leaker very early, and we never got a reason to doubt him. There's really no way around it - leaks kill speculation since any rating can be summed up as "0/100 percent: Vergeben didn't/did say that." I even remember that the Sm4sh discussion was quashed for a while because of Gematsu, but exploded after Robin showed that Gematsu wasn't 100% (until the ESRB came by to shut things back down). What's the point of trying to dig through speculation when there is a much simpler answer coming from the General thread? And even then, some people try to avoid leaks, so they'll avoid this thread as well since people keep bringing the leaks up. Even now, it seems as if we've just gotten the leak that gives us the four remaining DLC slots, so it's tough to try to care about rating characters.

Very solid criticisms and points. I feel that for abstaining it would be leaning more on chance to be honest, since I’m the first post on this I implied that I would have people do research. I should have worded better.

As for scores, we should be up to date sometime around the 20th, from that day onward we will get regular scores.

Leaks do kill speculation, but there is nothing I can do on that.

As for the discussion rule, it was primarily implemented to appear as black and white as possible. I did not want any level of subjectivity within anything getting the axe. I am curious to the idea of repealing it and trying something new though.

 

[Nemuresu]

Tails Doll:
Chance: 1%-I honestly think we'll only get brand-new guest characters in this DLC. Tails being in the game just made more sense on the base roster to me, in the same vein as Richter and Ken. There is, at least, one more thing I'd like to bring, but considering we're only a few days away from new RTC additions, I'd prefer to spare that for when we talk about the possibility of all DLC characters being guests.
Want: 0%-Yeah, unpopular opinion here: I find Tails to be an incredibly boring character. He's just Sonic with two tails that can make him fly like a helicopter, and given how Sakurai has threaten Sonic himself, I really have no reason to expect any better. Really, if I had to classify the "main requested" from best to worst it'd be: Knuckles (because he's actually got a lot of unique stuff), then Shadow (because you can at least avoid using Sonic's recovery and side-B for him) and Tails at the end. Frankly, I think even Big the Cat would be more interesting in a combat perspective than Tails.
Nominations: Dantex5

As on the abstaining overabundance, yeah, it's becoming problematic. I'm gonna go back onto why I suggested to make noms 5/3 instead of 10/5: as a way of making people put on some more effort into their posts. Don't look at it the wrong way, I'm not someone who plays by the rules 100% of the time, nor am I someone who just wants to see the world burn; if I'm told I'm doing things wrong, I usually do my best to do better next time, even if I sometimes don't agree with their decisions, and of course, you can't learn that with encouragement, but with punishment. But of course, if you don't agree with it, I'm not gonna fight back, I'm here for fun after all.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Tails Doll:
Chance: 1%-I honestly think we'll only get brand-new guest characters in this DLC. Tails being in the game just made more sense on the base roster to me, in the same vein as Richter and Ken. There is, at least, one more thing I'd like to bring, but considering we're only a few days away from new RTC additions, I'd prefer to spare that for when we talk about the possibility of all DLC characters being guests.
Want: 0%-Yeah, unpopular opinion here: I find Tails to be an incredibly boring character. He's just Sonic with two tails that can make him fly like a helicopter, and given how Sakurai has threaten Sonic himself, I really have no reason to expect any better. Really, if I had to classify the "main requested" from best to worst it'd be: Knuckles (because he's actually got a lot of unique stuff), then Shadow (because you can at least avoid using Sonic's recovery and side-B for him) and Tails at the end. Frankly, I think even Big the Cat would be more interesting in a combat perspective than Tails.
Nominations: Dantex5

As on the abstaining overabundance, yeah, it's becoming problematic. I'm gonna go back onto why I suggested to make noms 5/3 instead of 10/5: as a way of making people put on some more effort into their posts. Don't look at it the wrong way, I'm not someone who plays by the rules 100% of the time, nor am I someone who just wants to see the world burn; if I'm told I'm doing things wrong, I usually do my best to do better next time, even if I sometimes don't agree with their decisions, and of course, you can't learn that with encouragement, but with punishment. But of course, if you don't agree with it, I'm not gonna fight back, I'm here for fun after all.

Love the logic here. Psychology does state that punishment, or rather negative punishment does not work. I don’t want to go to in depth on it (there’s a reason I dropped my psych major) but positive reinforcement usually works better.

 

[Deleted member]

Not cool.

Sorry

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Tails~

Chance: 5%. Sega really doesn't like pushing him, and he barely got a stage cameo. I doubt any Sonic character has a chance at this point. If Shadow couldn't even get an Echo status, what chance does Tails has, who requires way more work. Though a lot of this could be on Sega simply saying no, but Sakurai may not have considered other Sonic characters.

Want: 10%. Awesome character, but I want to see him playable in Sonic games in very unique playstyles compared to Sonic again first. Like, the last time I remember him being kind of unique is in Sonic Boom, the show, not the games.

I'm pretty sure I can't nom the same character over and over again, and I don't remember who is off the table for noms. If I could get a list, I'll edit in someone better?

Noms: Black Shadow x 5
Predictions: Dixie as a separate Echo DLC or a Tag Team for Season 2(or actual separate spot, not unlike what PP was). 30%

 

[ProfPeanut]

Tails

Chance: 10%
If this were Sega Smash Bros, we'd have had him by the first game already. As it stands, Sakurai's yet to take a second non-echo character from any third-party franchise, a category that Tails is certainly in the top choices of. We don't know if there's a real resistance from Sakurai's part to do this, but given the nature of Smash Bros and the costs of development, it does make sense for them to prioritize casting the net out wide for third-parties, instead of doubling down on ones they already have. Same goes for other similarly-positioned candidates, like Zero or Sephiroth.

He's closer-tied to Sonic than any other animal character, so it's a little strange that Knuckles and Shadow get to show up on-stage before he does. Still, Richter and Ken improves his chances.

Want: 50%
Yadda yadda, slots and limited dev cycles - but would anyone really have a problem with Tails? I understand that he's a bit of a slippery slope, considering the slide into what we now know as the Sonic fandom, but that's not exactly something that matters in Smash. He's hardly objectionable.


Prediction
Elma: 5%

Nominations
Hat Kid x5

 

[Jomosensual]

Question before I rate; do we still get full nominations for abstaining only on want?

Tails:

Chance: 10 - Would have been a lot higher if he wasn't already a spirit. Right now, especially after Joker, I have a hard time seeing anyone who is a spirit being added as DLC, especially with how they went out of their way to make Piranha Plant not have a spirit in the game even though most of the Mario enemies do. That, plus Joker being added as another rep from a company owned by sega makes things look a lot worse for him. The door is slightly open but very slightly.

Want: 20 - Never been a huge Tails fan. Personally I'd rather leave the sonic reps at 2 with either shadow or silver being a sonic echo before getting Tails in the game.

Noms:
Gen 8 Pokemon x5

 

[FancySmash]

Meters "Tails" Percsecond

Chance: 5%
I'm not gonna kid myself here, Tails chances are realistically not great. It seems Smash DLC is out to surprise us this time, whether the fanbase wants risked surprise characters we may or may not want or safe, yet predictable choices that we know we do want. Tails... falls into a gray area. He's got fan demand, but he'd also surprise, as most don't find him likely. And even with us expecting the unexpected... he's still unexpected. DLC will most likely be main characters from series not yet in Smash, and if Tails made it past all of that, he'd still have Dr. Eggman to contend with, and this is one time a Sonic character actually might not defeat the mad scientist.

Want: 90%
I like Tails, and I wouldn't be opposed to see him in Smash. If I were to rate Eggman, I'd probably rate him similarly. As for how I see things? Eggman makes the most sense for a unique fighter, Tails for an Isabelle situation of semi-clone, and Shadow for a full on echo. Honestly, Tails certainly deserves better than the lousy support spirit and background cameo he was given. I'd even take an Assist Trophy where he follows the player around like he does in Sonic 3, and when the player is launched off stage, Tails will carry them back, as he can carry Sonic in the same game.

Wait, what was this about? Tails as playable? Uh... yeah. I'd still like to see that too.

Predictions: Elma
Ah, Bandana Dee had the benefit of being rated before we knew the cruel truth. Elma doesn't have that I'm afraid... 6.7%
(On another note, I'm expecting my wanted Bandana Brawler to drop when he's rerated)

Noms:
Professor Hector x3
Q*Bert x2

 

[GoodGrief741]

Tails~

Chance: 5%. Sega really doesn't like pushing him, and he barely got a stage cameo. I doubt any Sonic character has a chance at this point. If Shadow couldn't even get an Echo status, what chance does Tails has, who requires way more work. Though a lot of this could be on Sega simply saying no, but Sakurai may not have considered other Sonic characters.

Want: 10%. Awesome character, but I want to see him playable in Sonic games in very unique playstyles compared to Sonic again first. Like, the last time I remember him being kind of unique is in Sonic Boom, the show, not the games.

I'm pretty sure I can't nom the same character over and over again, and I don't remember who is off the table for noms. If I could get a list, I'll edit in someone better?

You can totally nom the same character over and over again (that’s pretty much the norm), but if you still want variety, you can nominate any character or concept, as long as they aren’t an AT or Pokeball Pokémon or a non-videogame character. If the character was already rated the nominations will count towards a Rerate.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You can totally nom the same character over and over again (that’s pretty much the norm), but if you still want variety, you can nominate any character or concept, as long as they aren’t an AT or Pokeball Pokémon or a non-videogame character. If the character was already rated the nominations will count towards a Rerate.

Alright, thank you.