Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes

[BluePikmin11]

I think the difference between Hanafuda and Sheriff is the sheer amount of success Hanafuda cards had in Japan back in the 1900s, to the point where Hiroshi was able to secure a deal with Disney to license their characters for cards (Which became an instant huge hit for Nintendo), to the extent that Hanafuda cards are still being sold today by the company for still being popular. Such an impact cannot be easily said for Sherifff, to me, Sheriff is more of a novelty than being impactful and crucial to Nintendo's progression as a company.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I think the difference between Hanafuda and Sheriff is the sheer amount of success Hanafuda cards had in Japan back in the 1900s, to the point where Hiroshi was able to secure a deal with Disney to license their characters for cards (Which became an instant huge hit for Nintendo), to the extent that Hanafuda cards are still being sold today by the company for still being popular. Such an impact cannot be easily said for Sherifff, to me, Sheriff is more of a novelty than being impactful and crucial to Nintendo's progression as a company.

I agree with you, with an asterisk. Hanafuda was in no doubt more influential to Nintendo than Sheriff. It’s what the company was based on, and what gave them the capital to eventually venture into videogames.

The asterisk comes into play when we get into Smash. While I think it’s Nintendo history getting represented, not Nintendo’s gaming history, I can still see Sakurai giving priority to the gaming side.

And, as common response in this thread has proven, people appear to regard Hanafuda as a tidbit in Nintendo’s past, rather than as a big deal, so that’s also something to consider.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I do not think Western fan views on Hanafuda's importance will reflect Sakurai's viewpoint on Hanafuda's importance. Given the range of Nintendo history we seen represented in all Smash games, I have no doubt that he at some point in his life researched Nintendo beyond the gaming era, and found Hanafuda to be an integral part of Nintendo history. The low degree Western Nintendo fans hold of Hanafuda might actually be of a higher degree to Sakurai as a Japanese Nintendo fan. There is cultural viewpoints to consider in this case.

 

[ProfPeanut]

First off, invented Hanafuda? I'd like to know where you got that piece of info, because it's not something I can find anywhere else. Producing Hanafuda cards is a very different thing from actually inventing them.


Hanafuda character

Chance: 10%
I certainly don't think it's impossible. You want to celebrate Nintendo history, then Hanafuda is a prime candidate bar none - without it, Nintendo might not exist at all. Having a major spot in Japan's general history of games as the one card game left relatively unharassed by a gambling-paranoid government, it's not something that can be brushed aside as simply a card game variant that made it big. It's not an unfeasible moveset either, especially when Mr. Game & Watch uses the same logic of cameoing its imagery as its moveset.

But I think it's also undeniable that the buck has always seemed to stop at electronic games. For such an important product, it's somehow failed to show up in any previous Smash game by any means or reference. Neither has the Ultra Hand, another product that uses no electronics despite being a very obvious choice for an item. The very furthest back that Smash goes seems to be the light gun, already represented by Duck Hunt - and even then, only through its NES appearances.

Sakurai doesn't owe anything to analog games, when we know it's specifically video games that caught his attention when he was young. The idea of a retro WTF is hardly a rule as much as it is a pattern, one with no promises behind it - just the director's desire to surprise us in every iteration. Something he already did when he declared that Everyone was Here.

Hanafuda would clearly be the next logical step in escalating the retro newcomers, of course - but that assumes that it has to keep ramping up! Yet if Smash must always pick an older, important representative, then where does it go after Hanafuda gets in, if Hanafuda's the absolute end of the line in regards to Nintendo history? Do we just assume Smash quietly dies and/or kills this rule only then? Or is it obliged to keep going even further back, digging into even older and more significant analog games? What comes next, four-suit deck for Smash? Backgammon for Smash? Gambling dice for Smash? Hanafuda itself would make just as little sense if not for its history with Nintendo! What I'm saying here is, you can't use "it must ramp up" as your main point of logic, because you'll simply reach absurdity right afterwards.

Alternatively, almost no one outside of Japan knows what Hanafuda is. Dozens of characters are written off over this. Takamaru and Lip always die for this. If you, a foreigner, asked Sakurai to put Hanafuda in, he might retort by asking you if you even knew what its rules were. I'd wager a good number of Japanese couldn't even answer that themselves.

What Hanafuda has, in spite of all this, is a century-long relationship with a Nintendo rivaled by nothing else, borne from its founder and continued by his great grandson, a man who chose to evolve Nintendo from a playing card company to the multi-billion dollar video game company it is today. Hanafuda wouldn't represent just the one surviving card deck that Nintendo adopted, it'd represent its whole pre-video game history. An undeniable legacy, to be certain - but as far as most the world is concerned, the history of Nintendo began with Donkey Kong, or Super Mario Bros. How far Sakurai himself sees Nintendo's history is all that would really decide Hanafuda's chances.


Want: 40%
I don't want to put Hanafuda in to satisfy some random "rule" that the internet vomited out just to justify G&W, R.O.B. and Duck Hunt to itself. I want them in because they represent a cool and obscure part of Nintendo history! What a thing to have your whole company be born from the game industry, especially when its other competitors can't claim the same! That's the kind of history lesson that any company would teach to the kids to make itself cooler.

Still, Ultimate is the most self-focused Smash yet, something that works way against Hanafuda's favor. Hanafuda wants a Nintendo-focused Smash to debut in, but Ultimate looks poised to invite the K. Rools and Shovel Knights instead of such callbacks. Frankly, there's just too many other choices that'll never have as good of a chance as getting in again, characters that'll certainly crowd the DLC line-up when it happens. Hanafuda has no such urgency behind it - its legacy and significance will remain the same for any future Smash game that might consider it, even if a roster reset or a remake happens.


Prediction:
Rowlet: 1%

Nominations:
Sans (boss) x5

 

[NintenRob]

Hanafuda
Chance: 2%
Space is very limited, while this has a lot of connection to Nintendo history, it's not really a video game thing. We haven't even seen UltraHand in Smash yet.
Want 0%
I have issues with having a character older than Mr. Game & Watch in. He's just who should be the oldest character to me. Plus I'd rather Diskun or Parabo and Satebo.

Nominate no more stages x4
Daroach x1

 

[Kotor]

Abstaining on Hanafuda

Black Knight as a boss character x5

 

[Diddy Kong]

Mr. Hanafuda

Chance: 10%

Being generous here, it's one of the most out-there ideas in terms of building an actual character around the hanafuda which basically hinders the character. But seeing as Nintendo already made an Assist Trophy out of Sheriff, it's certainly not impossible. I do think the potential lies way more in a representation as an Assist Trophy, or item however. Hanafuda cards being thrown around to unleash certain effects or beautiful scenery that somehow hurts your opponents. I don't think building a character out of hanafuda cards is actually really possible without it becoming awkward. It's possible of course, look at how they did Mr.Game & Watch; but given, had way more to work with in the first place.

Want: 33%

Am kinda luke warm to the whole idea. I would think it's cool to have the card represented to celebrate Nintendo's history, but outside of that, I don't feel much for a potential playable character out of this. Then again, I would probably say the same about characters as Duck Hunt, Ice Climbers and R.O.B. if they never where playable in Smash, so I give them a want ranking based on what I would give those exact characters. Just not my cup of tea, but cool to have it being represented nonetheless.

Nominations go to : The concept of more than 5 unique newcomers x 5

 

[RealPokeFan11]

Just did more research:

1889: Fusajiro Yamauchi founds Nintendo Koppai in Kyoto, Japan, to manufacture hanafuda, Japanese playing cards. Western-style playing cards originally came to Japan in the 16th century with Portuguese traders, but over the ensuing three centuries a variety of different card games were created in Japan.Sep 23, 2010

 

[CaptainAmerica]

The possible negative reception you see with Hanafuda I feel is not what is going to actually happen. I think it would be more positive than people here think. I think there is no way Hanafuda would receive the same aount of controversy as Dark Pit or Corrin to the point where even hardcore Nintendo fans are disappointed.

I'm not saying that there is nobody who would enjoy it - I know there are a decent number of people on these boards for whom the more out there the idea, the better.

Still, I also know that there is still salt directed at ROB for mainly being 'not from a viedogame.' And this brings me around to my first point - Hanafuda may be important to Nintendo's history but Smash never claimed to be a celebration of Nintendo history, it's a celebration of gaming history.

Besides, most of what we're debating is based on fanrules anyway, which we all know does not hold up to scrutiny in the slightest. "We always have a retro surprise" is a pattern people have noticed since Melee, just like "We'll never get a second third-party from the same company" or "from the same franchise" but those are both gone by this point. And I'll forestall the argument of "We've never had a non-video game rep" also being a fanrule - despite the ballot asking for your favorite gaming character - by saying that I really wouldn't be in the slightest surprised if Sakurai wanted to be enough of a madman to break the internet by putting Goku as the last DLC character. However, I really can't see anyone other than Goku being enough to break the "no non-gamiong character" rule, and definitely not an obscure card deck which is basically unknown to non-Japanese people.

Yes, I feel Sakurai could do anything, and he's made a job of being unpredictable this round - I would never in a million years have considered 'everyone is here' to be feasible. However, if his reasoning for excluding Takamaru from playability this (and last) round was specifically due to western obscurity, I can't really see him putting region-specific characters anymore. I doubt that Lucas and Roy would be in if Smash was as big then if it is now.

We had Smash fans hre who were hardcore against the idea of transformation fighters, thinking that the return will just make people salty and that there was no solution to it. Instead, positive reception came with the better execution of transformation, with people's predictions on the reception being flat-out wrong. You and I personally experienced a small victory with this one.

And I am very grateful about this. I've been arguing to fix transformations instead of removing them for years.

 

[BluePikmin11]

First off, invented Hanafuda? I'd like to know where you got that piece of info, because it's not something I can find anywhere else. Producing Hanafuda cards is a very different thing from actually inventing them.

It seems like I did a misstep in research, I rephrased a part of the analysis to say that Yamauchi resurged the popularity of Hanafuda instead.

Hanafuda would clearly be the next logical step in escalating the retro newcomers, of course - but that assumes that it has to keep ramping up! Yet if Smash must always pick an older, important representative, then where does it go after Hanafuda gets in, if Hanafuda's the absolute end of the line in regards to Nintendo history? Do we just assume Smash quietly dies and/or kills this rule only then? Or is it obliged to keep going even further back, digging into even older and more significant analog games? What comes next, four-suit deck for Smash? Backgammon for Smash? Gambling dice for Smash? Hanafuda itself would make just as little sense if not for its history with Nintendo!

Well, I think the next logical step is to make a character out of Nintendo's 1970 toys. After that, I have no clue, I think Sakurai will find a way to surprise with a new theme with surprise characters. :L

What I'm saying here is, you can't use "it must ramp up" as your main point of logic, because you'll simply reach absurdity right afterwards

I mean, I do not think will think about the long term and be frustrated on who to think of next as the surprise character. For Ultimate, he would be focusing and caring more on making this game the best he can with newcomers, modes, and gameplay changes. My point was not exactly to ramp up the surprise factor, moreso the idea of Hanafuda possibly being thought about in the process of elimination when considering the historical Nintendo theme to determine each "surprise" character, I do not think the thought of escalation would be the primary factor Sakurai thinks about when considering a Hanafuda character for Ultimate. If it was to escalate, I feel the order that each surprise newcomer would have been for previous Smash games would escalated in this manner in terms of historical impact on Nintendo: Duck Hunt -> Mr. Game and Watch -> R.O.B.

But, that it is not exactly the case here, as the historical impact of each surprise newcomer from Melee to Smash for escalates and deescalates like an uneven mountain. It is more of a process of elimination if you ask me.

Alternatively, almost no one outside of Japan knows what Hanafuda is. Dozens of characters are written off over this. Takamaru and Lip always die for this. If you, a foreigner, asked Sakurai to put Hanafuda in, he might retort by asking you if you even knew what its rules were. I'd wager a good number of Japanese couldn't even answer that themselves.

Maybe for the non-gaming retort, but again, I think historical impact to Nintendo's history could easily make up for lack of global recognizability. People of today might not recognize Hanafuda's connection to Nintendo (Probably most people of their time prior to each surprise newcomer of every prior Smash would likely dismiss Duck Hunt, R.O.B., and Mr G&W quickly. And for R.O.B. in particular, the toy's history is more significant in the West than in Japan due to it helping the NA gaming market, and Japanese people would probably dismiss your idea of ROB prior to the Brawl full roster reveal), but I am sure that Sakurai himself knows the significance of Hanafuda to take it into serious consideration when deciding the next surprise character for Ultimate's project plan. I do not think your argument works here.

I don't want to put Hanafuda in to satisfy some random "rule" that the internet vomited out just to justify G&W, R.O.B. and Duck Hunt to itself. I want them in because they represent a cool and obscure part of Nintendo history! What a thing to have your whole company be born from the game industry, especially when its other competitors can't claim the same! That's the kind of history lesson that any company would teach to the kids to make itself cooler.

Well, for us Hanafuda supporters, we take historical impact and moveset potential into consideration as to why we want the idea to happen badly. The assumption of us few supporters predicting and supporting Hanafuda for "the sake of filling in something" is narrow-minded at best.

Besides, most of what we're debating is based on fanrules anyway, which we all know does not hold up to scrutiny in the slightest. "We always have a retro surprise" is a pattern people have noticed since Melee, just like "We'll never get a second third-party from the same company" or "from the same franchise" but those are both gone by this point. And I'll forestall the argument of "We've never had a non-video game rep" also being a fanrule - despite the ballot asking for your favorite gaming character - by saying that I really wouldn't be in the slightest surprised if Sakurai wanted to be enough of a madman to break the internet by putting Goku as the last DLC character. However, I really can't see anyone other than Goku being enough to break the "no non-gaming character" rule, and definitely not an obscure card deck which is basically unknown to non-Japanese people.

It is a rule created by fans. You are right on that. But it is a tradition that us few people still speculate and are willing take a risk on betting on not only because these surprise characters represent something integral to Nintendo's history, but provide gameplay potential and individuality that would make these kinds of characters easily stand out from the usual Nintendo cast and the set of Ultimate's newcomers. The uniqueness surprise characters would provide is why we feel Sakurai will continue the "surprise" addition, and why we think a "surprise" character will happen for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, despite the majority crowd primarily betting on newcomers purely based on ballot popularity without putting much thought into it.

 

[RealPokeFan11]

Can't wait to rate an actual video game character tomorrow

 

[Pacack]

Duck Hunt was the NES Zapper game. The real reason Duck Hunt is in is we remember him as one of those NES era classic characters, like Ice Climbers. We don't really remember or care about Nintendo's hanafuda cards. It's mostly remembered as a cool piece of Nintendo trivia.

I was responding to BluePikmin’s assertion that the historical character has to be important. I have no doubt that Duck Hunt is memorable (Ice Climber, though, would have likely fallen into obscurity without Smash, as it wasn’t even that well received)

Duck Hunt is not the NES Zapper, though, just one of the games that used it. While the moveset for Duck Hunt included other Zapper games, that was an association made by Sakurai. Gumshoe could just as easily have been the representative for the Zapper. Duck Hunt got in because the game was a success and beloved by many, not because it was important to Nintendo’s history.

I feel like my own comments on Duck Hunt from earlier would help clear up why Duck Hunt is absolutely in the same realm as R.O.B., rather than Ice Climbers.

Duck Hunt is a character which is a little less obvious about its historical ties. However, I would argue that the character represents not only the extremely well-selling Duck Hunt video game, but also the light gun as a whole. This included much earlier points in Nintendo's history, including the Beam Gun, Laser Clay Shooting System, Wild Gunman, and Duck Hunt products released in the 1970s. These products, while technically not "video games" are an early example of electro-mechanical games, which greatly contributed to the rise of the early arcade industry.

Nintendo was the predominant producer of light guns for the home in Japan at this time, and they had obtained a contract with Magnavox to produce the light gun peripheral for the first home video game console, the Magnavox Odyssey. Nintendo's involvement in the project gave them direct insight into the North American video game market, which likely influenced them to bundle a Light Gun (alongside R.O.B.) with the NES in North America. If it were not for the Light Gun, Nintendo may have not entered the home video game market at all.

The 1976 Duck Hunt product is actually referenced by one of the tips in Smash 4, so it was definitely recognized by Sakurai.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Well then. Here we go with another review...

HANAFUDA CHARACTER

Nintendo's first real product that they pursued. Hanafuda cards. Do I think they will be brought back as a memento in the form of a sticker or trophy? ABSOLUTELY! Do I think that they (they're still playing cards by the way) warrant their own fighter slot? Absolutely not. Sure, Hanafuda is a part of Nintendo's past. Was it all that integral? Sure, it's how the company got its real start, but if we are talking about present day? Let's just say Nintendo isn't making any large effort to slam out the Hanafuda cards back into the mainstream. Shock-factor fighters as well as very-retro reps are a-okay in my book, but a fighter based off of one of Nintendo's early card games? Highly improbable impossible. Sorry Blue...

Chance: 2.5% (I dun got called out)

Just because a Hanafuda fighter isn't going to happen, does that mean that I want it? No, not really. It'd be relatively neat I guess, but even with Blue's expertly written review, I still can't imagine a walking box of cards bobbing back and forth while brawling against Shulk and Luigi (Well, I mean those were exactly the characters who came to mind when I was imagining the hanafuda deck fighting, but I can't picture it being in the game legitimately. I tried my best, and it looked really bad....)

Want: 5% (I dun got called out)

That was a thing I never thought I'd ever rate. Couldn't really say anything too valid...

Noms: Quote x2, and [Concept] Any Minecraft representation x3

 

[DjinnandTonic]

I do not think Western fan views on Hanafuda's importance will reflect Sakurai's viewpoint on Hanafuda's importance. Given the range of Nintendo history we seen represented in all Smash games, I have no doubt that he at some point in his life researched Nintendo beyond the gaming era, and found Hanafuda to be an integral part of Nintendo history. The low degree Western Nintendo fans hold of Hanafuda might actually be of a higher degree to Sakurai as a Japanese Nintendo fan. There is cultural viewpoints to consider in this case.

Nintendo's history with Hanafuda is most definitely NOT common knowledge among Japanese fans either... And among younger players, even the existence of Hanafuda itself is somewhat obscure knowledge.

Chance: 1%
A very nice write-up by Blue. Certainly worthy of discussion. It's not impossible, I was certainly convinced of that. I see it having potential as an Assist Trophy! (And unlike most people, I don't see Assist Trophies as some kind of terrible snub, but as a genuine honor.)

Want: 0%
That said, I just don't like non-characters. G&W, ROB, Duck Hunt, and the Mii Fighters are literally my most-hated additions to the Smash Roster ever and if possible, I would remove them. Hanafuda, unfortunately, hits this same chord, but louder.

I just don't have any attachment to objects without a narrative. Characters like Villager and WF Trainer skirt the line, but even those two are pushing it. With people begging for more non-characters like Rhythm Heaven, Hanafuda isn't even a blip on the radar.

Apart from this thread, where one dedicated fan gave me pause for a moment about it. So... feel proud of your devotion, Blue! Keep it classy like that opening writeup you did, though.

Noms: DLC Costumes x5

 

[P.Kat]

Hanafuda

Abstaining

Fjorm x5

 

[BluePikmin11]

Nintendo's history with Hanafuda is most definitely NOT common knowledge among Japanese fans either... And among younger players, even the existence of Hanafuda itself is somewhat obscure knowledge.

So are you saying that Sakurai as an immensely dedicated Nintendo fan would not be aware of Hanafuda's significance to Nintendo's history? I am mostly talking about Sakurai specifically being aware of the history rather than other fans.

 

[Pacack]

I still can't imagine a walking box of cards bobbing back and forth while brawling against Shulk and Luigi (Well, I mean those were exactly the characters who came to mind when I was imagining the hanafuda deck fighting, but I can't picture it being in the game legitimately. I tried my best, and it looked really bad....)

You're perfectly entitled to that, but I want to note that a walking box of cards isn't the only thing we're rating today.



There are at least four non-box characters that could be used for a hanafuda moveset. I don't know if that changes your opinion at all, but there are at least some other options to consider.

 

[DjinnandTonic]

So are you saying that Sakurai as an immensely dedicated Nintendo fan would not be aware of Hanafuda's significance to Nintendo's history? I am mostly talking about Sakurai specifically being aware of the history rather than other fans.

Obviously I cannot speak for Sakurai himself. But saying that "Western fan impression has no impact" seems to be disingenuously implying that Japanese fans are all well aware of Hanafuda's history with Nintendo. And that is simply inaccurate.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Obviously I cannot speak for Sakurai himself. But saying that "Western fan impression has no impact" seems to be disingenuously implying that Japanese fans are all well aware of Hanafuda's history with Nintendo. And that is simply inaccurate.

Well, I did not indirectly imply that. I am sure there are a ton of casual Japanese fans out there that are not aware of Hanafuda's big connection to Nintendo.

Though neither their viewpoints would reflect Sakurai's viewpoint I feel.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Hanafuda Character:

Chance: 1% - I don't really see it happening. It could happen since it's part of Nintendo's history and Sakurai might be interested in it, but I just don't see it happening.

Want: Abstain - I don't care one way or the other. I will say that I'd find that playing as a card or a character attacking with cards could be funny.

Nominations:

Gengar x5

 

[Opossum]

You're perfectly entitled to that, but I want to note that a walking box of cards isn't the only thing we're rating today.

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There are at least four non-box characters that could be used for a hanafuda moveset. I don't know if that changes your opinion at all, but there are at least some other options to consider.

Nintendoji himself would count as representing his game, not Hanafuda itself. I feel that should count as a separate rating entirely.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

There are at least four non-box characters that could be used for a hanafuda moveset.

Okay, thank you for reminding me. I was just reflecting back on Blue's earlier comment about what the most likely fighter would be, and the box of cards immediately struck me as the most memorable. I don't even know how they would be able to encorporate Napoleon Bonaparte as a Smash fighter; the idea seems silly. The tengu would probably be the most realistic fit for a fighter out of Blue's examples, and after doing research on Hanafuda for myself instead of relying on others, I found (on wikipedia) that Nintendo still makes them in Japan (as a Mario variant) for some type of homage to the company's roots. You have convinced me to rethink my actions, so I'll head back and edit.

 

[Sari]

When are we starting the new day?

 

[TCT~Phantom]

When are we starting the new day?

Now, I would have been sooner but I was sick.

Rate Rowlet, also expect an update soon.

 

[Sari]

Rowlet

Chance: 4%
Rowlet is probably the most popular of the 1st evolution Gen VII starters so it has that going for it. If any form of the Rowlet line were to be playable it’d most likely be Decidueye though as it offers way more in terms of moveset potential. Even then, Rowlet/Decidueye still has to compete with Incineroar who is all but confirmed.

Want: 55%
Rowlet is my all-time favorite grass starter so seeing him playable would be nice. I’d still prefer if we got Decidueye instead however.

Nominations: Kyo Kusanagi x5

 

[NintenRob]

Rowlet
Chance: 15%
As the most popular and promoted Gen7 Pokemon it should not be ignored, this thing was loved from the moment it was revealed and that was potentially early enough to impact Sakurai if he waited again before deciding the Pokemon. But Pokemon spot is tightly contested and we might not even get one.
Want 60%
Can't deny this would make me smile. It's such a cute Pokemon. I'm torn on having another starter but one that isn't fully evolved would add nice variety to the Pokemon and smash lineup, which Incineroar...... would not.

Nominate no more stages x5

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

Rowlet
Chance: 2%
Ignoring that the Gen 7 mon will likely be Incinaroar, I can't see this birb making it for other reasons. If we're getting someone from the Rowlet line I think it would be Decidueye. Not only is its body shape probably more realiseble to make a moveset out of than Rowlet's round shape, as a third stage Pokémon it would also probably look cooler to the casual audience and bring more hype. Yes, Rowlet does have the most popularity out of any Gen 7 mon but at the time the roster was decided this wasn't the case.

Want: 65%
Despite me dropping S&M, I do really like Rowlet and I would gladly take it if we really have to get another Pokémon. Although I'd honestly take anybody that isn't Incinaroar at this point.

The Prince x5

 

[PeridotGX]

Baby Decidueye

Chance: 20%. He does stand a shot, given the fact that he's somewhat important in the anime and immensely popular in Japan, but he feels unlikely. Probably because he's unevolved, maybe because others are more likely. Maybe he could get in as a Jigglypuff echo, but with Meta-Knight's Up B?

Want: 0%. Passing up Decidueye for it's pre-evolved form? No thank you, that would feel insulting.

Nominations: Cross Series Echoes x5

 

[RealPokeFan11]

CIRCULAR BIRB

Chance: 0%
Pokeball chance: 50%

Want: 5%
Pokeball want: 50%

Sorry birb, but you might wanna come back after 34 levels or so, with tons of new moves, durability, agility, and fighting power. You're simply too weak and inexperienced for Super Smash Bros. Come back as a fully evolved Decidueye and then we'll talk.

(Also putting a little baby owl against an alien space dragon that kills people for a living seems pretty cruel.)

There's always the Pokeball however. The Pokeball allows weak or pre evolved Pokémon to shine for a few seconds and lend a hand for fighters in need. Perfect for Rowlet.

Nominations: Xurkitree x5
(A Pokémon ready for Smash)

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

ROWLET (WITH A NEW TEMPORARY COLOR BECAUSE WHY NOT)

I have no idea why Decidueye would ever be passed up as a new character, just to have its pre-evolved basic form take its spot. It's an almost-spherical bird, and doesn't have that much of a moveset potential. If we are going to get a Gen 7 starter pokemon, it's going to be a final evolution, and the probability that we are getting a Gen 7 starter is really high. The probability that it's a BASIC is really low. Squirtle makes it work for Pokemon Trainer because there had to be one pokemon of each evolution level (basic, 1st evolve, 2nd evolve), and Pikachu due to his outright popularity (don't even talk about baby evolutions *ahem* Pichu *ahem*) and Pichu, Pikachu's baby evolution (gosh DANG it, I talked about baby evolutions.) At this point, practically all of the speculation circles around Incineroar being playable, and I expect his announcement as the next announced. Rowlet is more than likely going to appear as a pokeball pokemon...

Chance: 0%

Rowlet would be cute, I guess. As a grass starter, I would rather see Sceptile though, and I'd rather see Incineroar as a Gen 7 starter. Put them together, and you get Greninja, Sceptile, and Incineroar being the fire, grass, and water type starters, and Pokemon Trainer being all three. I'd say that makes a pokemon line up. However, the chances of this occuring are incredibly slim to none. Decidueye briefly glances my radar as a fighter that I very slightly want, but Rowlet doesn't come close to fighter material for me. It'd be cute, I guess (quoting from above)...

Want: 2.5%

Cuteness is key. That's why we already have a round, cute pokemon in the game. Thanks Jigglypuff for taking Rowlet's spot!(?) Huh, this color looks really nice in retrospect, I might keep it around for a while.

Nominations: [Concept] Any Minecraft Representation x5

 

[Tew]

Rowlet:

Chance: 10%
Pros:
An interesting choice. Sounds weird at first, but considering it was amongst the first Gen 7 reveals and probably was the most beloved out of them, it does have a chance. Furthermore, in a Japanese Gen 7 popularity poll (https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/7z2ifz/gen_7_popularity_poll_results_for_both_pokemon/) it made the first place, mostly thanks due to the anime. And that is understandable, in the anime it likes to eat and sleep, who can‘t relate to that.
Cons:
But there are a few problems. First of all, the competition. At this point Incineroar is probably the second most likely Newcomer after Ken. And if he makes it in, I don‘t see another Gen 7 Rep. Though even without Incineroar there is a lot of other Pokémon, including Rowlet´s evolved form Decidueye.
Another problem is moveset potential. Sure Sakurai could definitely come up with something unique, but compared to the potential of Decidueye, it doesn‘t strike me as that interesting.

The biggest hope I see for it, would be a Newcomer like Pokémon Trainer but with the gen 7 starters. Then we likely had Incineroar, Rowlet and Brionne.

Want: 30%
I too can relate to his personality in the anime and generally like his design. But I would much prefer Decidueye over Rowlet. I just think Decidueye has a cooler design and a bigger moveset potential. Though, maybe Rowlet makes it in as a Pokéball Pokémon, that´d be nice.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Nomination:
Fjorm: 5x
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Rowlet

5% Chance

Honestly this one should have gained more traction in terms of speculation. Rowlet is super popular and easy to Merch. Yeah it’s a gag character in the anime, but so was Jigglypuff. A few things hold me back from giving Rowlet a higher score. First, competition. I honestly think rn it is between Incineroar and Lycanroc (yes I do not have full faith in Vergeben, his non smash track record has been mixed and I would not be shocked if this was the Raditz/Zarbon of this game). Decidueye still has a small shot too. Also, Rowlet seems to me like an ideal poke ball potentially.

100% want

Cute little borb. I love Rowlet and it’s design. Easily the best baby starter for grass. Honestly it’s only real comp there is Turtwig.

Nominating Sora rerate x5

So noms purge, I have decided a date. Cutoff tbd but will hear by end of the week. November 7th.

 

[Opossum]

Rowlet

Chance: 0%
Vergeben, man. I'm convinced it's Incineroar, as way too many things line up. Signed, a VergeBoxer.

Want: 0%
Just because Decidueye is one of my most wanted doesn't mean I'd want Rowlet. I'd honestly be kinda miffed if they passed up a Grass/Ghost archer owl for its baby self.

Merric x5

 

[zeonie888]

Rowlet
Chance: 0%
Despite it being very cute and round I doubt it would get in as a fighter. I see it more of a pokeball and it's final stage evolution Decidueye has a greater chance but if there a spot open for one more pokemon I have a feeling that Incineroar would take it.

Want: 25%
I do like like however I'm more interested in Decidueye than Rowlet being playable.

 

[Deleted member]

Abstaining on Rowlet.

...Yeah it's my favorite starter, but I'm that jaded right now, and all I care is keeping voting for my concept as I legitimately think it's an interesting one and curious how people would think about it.
But yes, the slow pace and the sourish ambience here pretty much killed my enthusiasm on this RTC game.

Noms:
Metroidvania-like adventure mode x5

 

[Brindor]

Rowlet
Chance: 0%
Want 15% (cute Pokemon)

NOMS
Master Hand playable x5
Cooking Mama x5

 

[GoodGrief741]

Spoiler: Nominations post-Hanafuda character pre-Rowlet

No More Stages x248
Fjorm (Fire Emblem) x235
Linkle x227
Concept: Metroidvania-like Adventure Mode x217
Louie x200
Rick/Coo/Kine x197
DeMille x193

200 - 151

Balloon Fighter x192
Concept: More than five unique newcomers (excl. Ridley/Daisy/Inkling) x190
Papyrus x180
Reimu Hakurei x175
Dovahkiin x170
Tsubasa Oribe x160
Concept: All-Star Versus x158
Snip & Clip (Snipperclips) x155
Fire Emblem Three Houses Protagonist x155
Concept: Octopath Traveller Character x151

150 - 101

Item: Beast Ball x150
Concept: Punch Out Newcomer x145
Susie Haltmann x139
Barbara the Bat x132
Project Zero/Fatal Frame Protagonist x132
Stage: Poke Floats x130
Edelgard x130
2B x126
Guzma (Pokémon) x120
Klonoa x117
Neptune (Hyperdimension Neptunia) x115
Concept: Pikmin Newcomer x115
Zeraora (Pokemon) x115
Kyo Kusanagi x115
Pokemon Trainer (Gen 2) x114
Gooey x111
Raiden (Metal Gear) x110
Black Knight as a boss character x110
Daroach x105
Tora & Poppi x102

100 - 51

Concept: Ken Masters alt Costume for Ryu x96
Viewtiful Joe x95
Concept: Only 4-6 newcomers for base roster x90
Silvally x84
Sans as a boss character x82
Chorus Kids x77
Yu Narakumi x76
Frank West x75
Veronica x73
Xurkitree (Pokémon) x73
9-Volt x68
Item: Breidablik x65
Toon Zelda x65
Endou Mamoru x62
Concept: Historical Character x60
The Prince (Katamari) x60
Slime x58
Concept: Shin Megami Tensei Character x56
Leo (Fire Emblem) x55
Concept: Cross series Echoes x55
Concept: Wars Characters x53
Takumi (Fire Emblem) x51

50 - 25

Rhythm Girl x50
Earthworm Jim x49
[Rerate] Spyro x45
Donbe and Hikari (Shin Onigashima) x44
Concept: Unique newcomer with low support (less than 20 supporters on Smashboards) x40
Concept: Xenoblade newcomer x40
Adeleine x39
[Rerate] Steve? x38
Stage: Ultra Space x35
Assist Trophy: Chun-Li x35
Stage: Melemele Island x35
Concept: DLC character pass x30
Merric (Fire Emblem) x30
Box Theory x29
Quote x28
Saki Amamiya x27
Dixie Kong & Kiddy Kong x25
Blacephalon (Pokemon) x25
Master Chief x25
Concept: Character alternate costume DLC x25

Under 25

Joker (Persona) x22
Concept: Break the Targets & Board the Platforms stage builder x20
[Rerate] Concept: Zelda newcomer x20
[Rerate] Sora x20
Sub-Zero x17
Concept: Modern Kirby Stage (Post Kirby Air Ride) x15
Concept: Custom Moves return x15
Concept: Custom Alternate Colors x15
Alexandra Roivas x15
Kat & Ana x15
[Rerate] Cranky Kong x15
Big Boss x15
[Rerate] Gengar x12
[Rerate] Excitebiker x11
Blog Theory x11
Ryuhi (Flying Dragon) x10
Metal Sonic x10
Dr. Lobe (Big Brain Academy) x10
Cross (Xenoblade Chronicles X) x10
Break the Targets x10
Protector (Etrian Odyssey) x10
Concept: Dragon Quest content x10
Bub & Bob x10
Conker x10
Stage: Yoshi’s Crafted World x10
Volleyball Girl (NES Volleyball) x8
Stage Builder x8
[Rerate] Porky Minch x7
Zeke (Xenoblade 2) x6
Stage: Gyromite Stage x5
Nia (Hyrule Warriors) x5
Concept: Valve Newcomer x5
Stage: SR388 x5
Concept: Playable Indie Character x5
Blaze the Cat x5
Alm x5
[Rerate] Octoling x5
Yandere Chan (Yandere Simulator) x5
Concept: Team Rocket as a Pokémon Trainer Echo x5
Cooking Mama x5
Playable Master Hand x5
Pam (Stardew Valley) x5
Captain Syrup x5
Concept: Return of Palutena’s Guidance/Codec Calls x5
Concept: Free DLC characters x5
Jin (Xenoblade) x5
Concept: Assist Trophy DLC x5
[Rerate] Black Shadow x5
Doshin the Giant x5
Stage: Mute City Melee x5
[Rerate] Lloyd Irving x5
[Rerate] Ryu Hayabusa x5
Bartz Klauser x5
Stage: Tetris x5
Concept: Danganronpa music x5
Elite Beat Agents x5
King Hippo x4
[Rerate] Ayumi Tachibana x4
Concept: New Yoshi item x4
Black Mage x4
Concept: Unique puzzle game rep x4
Concept: Any Minecraft representation x4
Stanley the Bugman x3
Concept: WarioWare newcomer x2
Concept: F-Zero newcomer x2
Diskun x1
Item: Wumpa Fruit x1
Birdo x1
Goomba x1

Fjorm passes Linkle and takes second place.

Concept: Cross series Echoes crosses 50 noms.

Saki Amamiya, Merric, and Alternate costume DLC fly past 25 noms.

New concept: Unique puzzle game rep, with 4 noms.

Dee Dude Assist Trophies are included in disconfirmed characters, and disconfirmed character DLC is scheduled to be rated, so your nominations weren’t counted.

Rowlet
Chance: 0%
Want 15% (cute Pokemon)

NOMS
Master Hand playable x5
Cooking Mama x5

You only get 5 nominations per day, and you have to give two sentences of reasoning per score for them to count.

 

[Fire Tactician]

Rowlett

Chance: 1%

I mean, it could happen since he's popular and adorable and owned by Ash, but will it? Should it? Not only are their better options, but Rowlett doesn't bring too much to the table. Sure, a tiny bird would be pretty unique in Smash, but is anyone really clamouring for it to happen? I'll leave the possibility on the table because he's one of the more popular Gen VII Pokemon, but I can't see him making it far in the planning process unless the entire team loved how cute he was.

Want: 100%

Seriously though, I'd love him. He's cute, fluffy, and would probably be a blast to play. Not that strong, Rowlett would likely play like trickier characters (Duck Hunt), which I love using, so I'd be thrilled. He's not happening, but boy would I want him to happen.

 

[DaUsername]

Also gonna abstain from Rowlet.
Disconfirmed becomes DLC prediction: 5%
Noms: Steve x5

 

[PeridotGX]

CIRCULAR BIRB

Chance: 0%
Pokeball chance: 50%

Want: 5%
Pokeball want: 50%

Sorry birb, but you might wanna come back after 34 levels or so, with tons of new moves, durability, agility, and fighting power. You're simply too weak and inexperienced for Super Smash Bros. Come back as a fully evolved Decidueye and then we'll talk.

(Also putting a little baby owl against an alien space dragon that kills people for a living seems pretty cruel.)

There's always the Pokeball however. The Pokeball allows weak or pre evolved Pokémon to shine for a few seconds and lend a hand for fighters in need. Perfect for Rowlet.

Nominations: Xurkitree x5
(A Pokémon ready for Smash)

'Yeah, we only have fully evolved Pokemon like Jigglypuff and Pichu.