slikvik
Smash Master
*dies of laughter*
<3 drephen
<3 drephen
-
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Rate my marth
- Thread starter Drephen
- Start date
soap
Smash Hero
It is my opinion that drephen made this thread as a joke and doesnt care about a serious critique of his marth.
But ya he does the same moves. Ever hear of that theory that the less options u have to work with the quicker your response time for each one will be.
Obviously drephen plays at an extreme of this mantra, but it is the only way he prolly knows how. Factoring in too many other possibilities may not work for him. I would not recomment people to play like this either because if your prediction skills are subpar his approaches are not safe at all.
Most other marths play with a safer zoning type style, but learning how to take risks and call something is a very valuable asset that everyone can use, even if they dont base their style on it.
You should make your advice more concise and in a nicer tone if you dont want people to just discard it. Opening your critique with "Rofl what an ugly marth" wouldnt make me wanna read the rest seriously
But ya he does the same moves. Ever hear of that theory that the less options u have to work with the quicker your response time for each one will be.
Obviously drephen plays at an extreme of this mantra, but it is the only way he prolly knows how. Factoring in too many other possibilities may not work for him. I would not recomment people to play like this either because if your prediction skills are subpar his approaches are not safe at all.
Most other marths play with a safer zoning type style, but learning how to take risks and call something is a very valuable asset that everyone can use, even if they dont base their style on it.
You should make your advice more concise and in a nicer tone if you dont want people to just discard it. Opening your critique with "Rofl what an ugly marth" wouldnt make me wanna read the rest seriously
agree with this post.
IrArby
Smash Ace
I don't neccessarily agree that his prediction skills are so awesome but yea I do think he mostly meant this as thread as a joke especially as he doesn't need people to tell him how to play or perhaps the 32 odd posts with "lol Drephen your the best good ****" gave away the humor of the thread. Still lots of noobs were taking it seriously and that probably upset me more than anything.
Whatever theory your talking about, it sounds rather self-limiting. Most people just train so as to narrow it down to a few options in each situation. M2K doesn't have great reactions but he's worked on narrowing things so a few options will cover most of the possible responses. You know stuff like that. That's what most people, Pros especially, work on.
So, I'll take your advice concerning the tone, and I do apologize for that.
Whatever theory your talking about, it sounds rather self-limiting. Most people just train so as to narrow it down to a few options in each situation. M2K doesn't have great reactions but he's worked on narrowing things so a few options will cover most of the possible responses. You know stuff like that. That's what most people, Pros especially, work on.
So, I'll take your advice concerning the tone, and I do apologize for that.
Drephen
Smash Master
If you were twice as smart, you'd still be stupid..............and ignorant
Razor
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2005
- Messages
- 265
i actually really like the marth. i think it's smart how drephen doesn't attack jiano's shield and doesn't try to jump in with aerials all the time. captain can just dash away and grab you when you land from an aerial--i've realized this many times. if you have perfect tech skill, then you can avoid that but that's tough. instead, drephen just grabs and edguards. smart.
i think the marth character improves drephen's edgeguarding bc he's never been an "off the stage" kind of guy. marth has better ON STAGE edgeguarding than sheik. of course, sheik's edgeguarding is pretty amazing too.
however, no f-air slap means less easy kills. i think that made it tough for drephen to kill at fairly high percents. and the fsmash is easier to punish--knee out of shield is painful.
i think this marth could probably win some good matches, but what's the point? drephen's sheik is good enough.
i think the marth character improves drephen's edgeguarding bc he's never been an "off the stage" kind of guy. marth has better ON STAGE edgeguarding than sheik. of course, sheik's edgeguarding is pretty amazing too.
however, no f-air slap means less easy kills. i think that made it tough for drephen to kill at fairly high percents. and the fsmash is easier to punish--knee out of shield is painful.
i think this marth could probably win some good matches, but what's the point? drephen's sheik is good enough.
Miggz
Pancake Sandwiches
This thread is more ridiculously then a jigglypuff ditto. =P
its sooo awesome
Hey all first post on SB glad to join.
Due to my newness Arby may discard my statements, but that is just a representation of ignorance, so by all means ignore me. Some things need to be reinforced though,
Variance is a defining aspect of mindgames and when incorporated with excellent innate tech skill, a minimalist style DOES actually become effective.
Just because his style isn't an exact carbon copy of M2K or anyone elses doesn't mean its not effective in its own right. It also doesn't make it the most effective style, but that is exactly what it is, a STYLE. Variances in effectiveness in different situations is natural. You can say "well this style has more use in more situations" but that leads me right back to what I said before. Simplicity and playing conservatively is rewarded if the player has the skill, possibly not equally as being aggressive may, but it is rewarded nonetheless. To flame this particular style is also a shot at who he beats, for someone mentioning he called them "scrubs", you sure do take shots at him directly, which in turn is taking shots at those he beat(s).
& Total respect Drephen btw. Mindgames FTW. Glad to join the community.
Due to my newness Arby may discard my statements, but that is just a representation of ignorance, so by all means ignore me. Some things need to be reinforced though,
You ARE being ignorant, and anyone saying that isnt saying it baselessly. For someone who is to stuck on "definitions" why don't you look up 'Elitist'? 'Cookie Cutter'?
Variance is a defining aspect of mindgames and when incorporated with excellent innate tech skill, a minimalist style DOES actually become effective.
Just because his style isn't an exact carbon copy of M2K or anyone elses doesn't mean its not effective in its own right. It also doesn't make it the most effective style, but that is exactly what it is, a STYLE. Variances in effectiveness in different situations is natural. You can say "well this style has more use in more situations" but that leads me right back to what I said before. Simplicity and playing conservatively is rewarded if the player has the skill, possibly not equally as being aggressive may, but it is rewarded nonetheless. To flame this particular style is also a shot at who he beats, for someone mentioning he called them "scrubs", you sure do take shots at him directly, which in turn is taking shots at those he beat(s).
Again, he beat these people. You are saying he is a bad, stupid player and person, yet he was able to beat these people with brainless play?
Ripping holes? The only thing you are doing is making yourself look like a total fool.
Yep. But he's trailed off long enough to warrant a response.
& Total respect Drephen btw. Mindgames FTW. Glad to join the community.
Prodigal One
Smash Cadet
Drephen's one the smartest smashers to play the game, give respect where respect it due.
soap
Smash Hero
one of the luckiest smashers.
drephen is really a leprechaun i discovered, he is like 300 years old.
Miggz
Pancake Sandwiches
Ah welcome to the boards.
IrArby
Smash Ace
@razor: Most good Marth's don't aerial at a Falcon's shield as you can still be shieldgrabbed with a late fair most of the time. Falcon's grab range starts slightly behind him. Most good Marth's don't approach with any aerials since Falcon can get under Nair pretty well and Fair has a particular timing that a fast Falcon can easily ellude. Most of them stick to a solid ground game of F/Dtilt, grabs, and well spaced dashattacks which lead to techchase>****. Throw in some SideBs depending on who your talking to. So no Drephen's Fsmashing spam doesn't constitute good style since thats alot more punishable than Nair or Fair.
@Pressure: If what Drephen was doing involved excellent innate tech skill then that'd be fine. People are operating under this dilussion as are you but he is not.
A. Marth is not a technical character (so why are people talking about his precision tech skill)
B. Marth is not a spammy minimalist character. (You try your Marth using 3 or 4 moves like Drephen does with Shiek. See how fast you get knocked out of any halfway respectable tournament.)
If you can some how disprove these facts than I'll concede. Honestly, I've been more pissed off at the stupid people defending Drephen than Drephen himself. Its fine of if your a Drephen Fanboy for his Shiek. Shiek is a really good spammy character and has been since the game came out. Marth doesn't work like that. Its not a matter of opinion. People need to get over the whole "well you can not like it but that doesn't make it wrong." Its not wrong because I say its wrong but because Drephen's Marth doesn't consistently win. People who play Marth like that do not win. Sure theres the random vid here and there but you can say that for anything.
Drephen himself isn't stupid but playing Marth that way isn't effective on the whole. All the vids look like huge flukes. Like that one with Drephen making a huge undeserved comeback on Dope because Dope basically gave the game away.
Check out the other vids from his set with Dope. He goes Shiek not Marth since he was just lucky enough to edgeguard Dope 4 times for stupid things Dope screwed up on in that one vid.
I never said those people are bad. I said they were noobing which they were. I said that they lost doing stupid things and got a Marth Fsmash. This is where people say "well Drephen still had to execute the Fsmash!" So what? If all you have to do to take someones stock is Fsmash than thats cake. I'm not saying thats exactly what happened but the fact that he timed an Fsmash isn't impressive. Its not worth boasting about or defending someones boasts.
Also, I didn't say Drephen was a "bad, stupid person" unless we were talking about his responses which were bad/stupid. I said it was Dbaggish of him to put something like "me beating some random scrubs" and his Marth playstyle wasn't what it should be. There are wrong ways to play a character and make no mistake about it. The game has been out for like 8 years. There are many styles that are right (or at least not wrong) and they vary a sh*t ton between them. Nonetheless, there are certain criteria that a good Marth style does not contain.
Think of the other big Marths. Ken, Azen, M2K. They all have very VERY distinct styles but none of them try and do bull**** like time Fsmashes and mispace dashattacks. In fact, they borrowed liberally from each other since what each other was doing worked. Drephens Marth does not build on what good Marths have already established in fact its something of a retrogression. Hundreds of vids and other matches that weren't even recorded say that Marth should be played more along those lines. 4 vids in this thread disagree. I say it again, So what? The 4 vids we have are barely even credible.
Drephen's Marth does contain things that we know to be bad for a Marth in general. His style is built on some of these things. Its strange that people adjust to a good Marth style and thus playing a direct Spammy one tends to throw a wrench in their play. His style is not unassailable merely unexpected and certainly not unbeatable. I argue that his style is highly beatable and look forward to seeing some hopefully upcoming vids of his Marth. Drephen isn't not stupid but rather as M2K and Soap just said, he is lucky and his style throws people off at first. It doesn't hold water as a legit style all by itself and certainly wont win a tournament standing alone unless ofcourse he's playing Shiek. Still, different story all together.
Lastly, I hadn't been on the boards in about 3 days and honestly I've been trying to drop this whole thing and even apologized. Its not worth my time to tell people that there are bad ways to play Marth which is the point of a critique. I just defending my point now as I not willing to tolerate personal attacks on them or me unless I'm in wrong. I'm not wrong therefore . . .
Summary of my posts in this thread: Drephen shouldn't spam punishable crap all the time, and the vids of him winning are more at the fault of his opponents than anything worthwhile on his part. On the whole, his style of Marth isn't good and people should get off his balls about it.
@Pressure: If what Drephen was doing involved excellent innate tech skill then that'd be fine. People are operating under this dilussion as are you but he is not.
A. Marth is not a technical character (so why are people talking about his precision tech skill)
B. Marth is not a spammy minimalist character. (You try your Marth using 3 or 4 moves like Drephen does with Shiek. See how fast you get knocked out of any halfway respectable tournament.)
If you can some how disprove these facts than I'll concede. Honestly, I've been more pissed off at the stupid people defending Drephen than Drephen himself. Its fine of if your a Drephen Fanboy for his Shiek. Shiek is a really good spammy character and has been since the game came out. Marth doesn't work like that. Its not a matter of opinion. People need to get over the whole "well you can not like it but that doesn't make it wrong." Its not wrong because I say its wrong but because Drephen's Marth doesn't consistently win. People who play Marth like that do not win. Sure theres the random vid here and there but you can say that for anything.
Drephen himself isn't stupid but playing Marth that way isn't effective on the whole. All the vids look like huge flukes. Like that one with Drephen making a huge undeserved comeback on Dope because Dope basically gave the game away.
Check out the other vids from his set with Dope. He goes Shiek not Marth since he was just lucky enough to edgeguard Dope 4 times for stupid things Dope screwed up on in that one vid.
I never said those people are bad. I said they were noobing which they were. I said that they lost doing stupid things and got a Marth Fsmash. This is where people say "well Drephen still had to execute the Fsmash!" So what? If all you have to do to take someones stock is Fsmash than thats cake. I'm not saying thats exactly what happened but the fact that he timed an Fsmash isn't impressive. Its not worth boasting about or defending someones boasts.
Also, I didn't say Drephen was a "bad, stupid person" unless we were talking about his responses which were bad/stupid. I said it was Dbaggish of him to put something like "me beating some random scrubs" and his Marth playstyle wasn't what it should be. There are wrong ways to play a character and make no mistake about it. The game has been out for like 8 years. There are many styles that are right (or at least not wrong) and they vary a sh*t ton between them. Nonetheless, there are certain criteria that a good Marth style does not contain.
Think of the other big Marths. Ken, Azen, M2K. They all have very VERY distinct styles but none of them try and do bull**** like time Fsmashes and mispace dashattacks. In fact, they borrowed liberally from each other since what each other was doing worked. Drephens Marth does not build on what good Marths have already established in fact its something of a retrogression. Hundreds of vids and other matches that weren't even recorded say that Marth should be played more along those lines. 4 vids in this thread disagree. I say it again, So what? The 4 vids we have are barely even credible.
Drephen's Marth does contain things that we know to be bad for a Marth in general. His style is built on some of these things. Its strange that people adjust to a good Marth style and thus playing a direct Spammy one tends to throw a wrench in their play. His style is not unassailable merely unexpected and certainly not unbeatable. I argue that his style is highly beatable and look forward to seeing some hopefully upcoming vids of his Marth. Drephen isn't not stupid but rather as M2K and Soap just said, he is lucky and his style throws people off at first. It doesn't hold water as a legit style all by itself and certainly wont win a tournament standing alone unless ofcourse he's playing Shiek. Still, different story all together.
Lastly, I hadn't been on the boards in about 3 days and honestly I've been trying to drop this whole thing and even apologized. Its not worth my time to tell people that there are bad ways to play Marth which is the point of a critique. I just defending my point now as I not willing to tolerate personal attacks on them or me unless I'm in wrong. I'm not wrong therefore . . .
Summary of my posts in this thread: Drephen shouldn't spam punishable crap all the time, and the vids of him winning are more at the fault of his opponents than anything worthwhile on his part. On the whole, his style of Marth isn't good and people should get off his balls about it.
Drephen
Smash Master
hey its IrArby's new theme song!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH6NNBa8yLg&feature=related
IrArby is ignorant
Watty
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2005
- Messages
- 1,638
god ****it i cant believe this is still going on.
guy who has posted a book about drephen
quit looking at the fact that he spams moves if you cannot understand and respect drews style of play with sheik his marth is something u will never get, and if u say u do understsand drews style of play than please tell me so i know ur not lying,
U say no marths play like drew at a pro lvl, no **** its hard to do, no sheik plays like drews at a pro level. It is his style the rock paper scissors technique if u will. If u dont know what that means ask me ill tell u,
But stop saying something is bad because u cant understand how it works, u know drews a good player, u know the ppl his marth is playing are good. Ur a M2K guy arent u? Drephen isnt good he just gets lucky alot? STFU with taht dumb ****
guy who has posted a book about drephen
quit looking at the fact that he spams moves if you cannot understand and respect drews style of play with sheik his marth is something u will never get, and if u say u do understsand drews style of play than please tell me so i know ur not lying,
U say no marths play like drew at a pro lvl, no **** its hard to do, no sheik plays like drews at a pro level. It is his style the rock paper scissors technique if u will. If u dont know what that means ask me ill tell u,
But stop saying something is bad because u cant understand how it works, u know drews a good player, u know the ppl his marth is playing are good. Ur a M2K guy arent u? Drephen isnt good he just gets lucky alot? STFU with taht dumb ****
IrArby
Smash Ace
God D*mn I keep trying to give the guy props for what he does. He spams and does decent but no he doesn't win tournaments with that Marth.
Everyone spams but most people spam different things at different times. Grab a Fox with your back to the edge and any decent Marth will spam dthrow to dtilt or regrab. Thats guaranteed options though. Thats safe, thats smart, and thats just one example. Spam is alright, Smart spam is better.
Seriously, I get it, he so direct that it throws everyone off. They dashdance just inside Fsmash range and he goes for it since they think he wouldn't since its so punishable. Its nice that he lands it but if your camping the edge, and your Fsmashing somone at low percents into the stage, theres no "getting it" to a style like that. Its not good and not because I say so or I don't get it. Yes I know what a rock paper scissor thing is I talked about earlier and believe it or not most people play that same game with more options and more movement rather than standing and pitting your guessed move against theres.
Heres a thought. Know what move beats any move they can throw at you? Not being there in the first place. Thats what dashdacing for. They approach and throw out an aerial thinking they've got you in the rock,paper,scissors lock up where if you shield then you'll grab but I'll spot dodge and grab you instead blah blah blah. Hey, why not dash back and dash in and put them on the disadvantaged end of that guessing game. Or wait till they assume your going to dash back and they spotdodge/roll/whatever and then punish them. Yea sounds better than standing there and timing an Fsmash.
Its not bad because I don't get it. Its bad because it goes against 1000s other random matches and counting. Different does not = both styles are equally good. Some styles are better and tournaments prove that. I gave Drephen props and said he was good. Even soap who lives in the same the same state and has probably played/watched Drephen play alot said he was one of the luckies smashers so shut your f*cking mouth. His Marth
Everyone spams but most people spam different things at different times. Grab a Fox with your back to the edge and any decent Marth will spam dthrow to dtilt or regrab. Thats guaranteed options though. Thats safe, thats smart, and thats just one example. Spam is alright, Smart spam is better.
Seriously, I get it, he so direct that it throws everyone off. They dashdance just inside Fsmash range and he goes for it since they think he wouldn't since its so punishable. Its nice that he lands it but if your camping the edge, and your Fsmashing somone at low percents into the stage, theres no "getting it" to a style like that. Its not good and not because I say so or I don't get it. Yes I know what a rock paper scissor thing is I talked about earlier and believe it or not most people play that same game with more options and more movement rather than standing and pitting your guessed move against theres.
Heres a thought. Know what move beats any move they can throw at you? Not being there in the first place. Thats what dashdacing for. They approach and throw out an aerial thinking they've got you in the rock,paper,scissors lock up where if you shield then you'll grab but I'll spot dodge and grab you instead blah blah blah. Hey, why not dash back and dash in and put them on the disadvantaged end of that guessing game. Or wait till they assume your going to dash back and they spotdodge/roll/whatever and then punish them. Yea sounds better than standing there and timing an Fsmash.
Its not bad because I don't get it. Its bad because it goes against 1000s other random matches and counting. Different does not = both styles are equally good. Some styles are better and tournaments prove that. I gave Drephen props and said he was good. Even soap who lives in the same the same state and has probably played/watched Drephen play alot said he was one of the luckies smashers so shut your f*cking mouth. His Marth
Drephen
Smash Master
There was a noob who sucked at smash,
And IrArby was his name-o.
I-G-N-O-R-A-N-T
I-G-N-O-R-A-N-T
I-G-N-O-R-A-N-T
And IrArby was his name-o.
*set to melody from "Bingo"
i feel like you keep typing out these long paragraphs to prove a point or because you are stubborn. Either way just stop, for your sake. All drephen has to do is say you are stupid in a funny way which takes like seconds while you take 10-10 mins writing these things out. And it just keeps going back and forth. It's so pointless and stupid. just stop or MM drephen and be done with this.
Miggz
Pancake Sandwiches
The most sensible thing I've read in this thread in days.
puckgood
Smash Journeyman
I tried to sing this, but all of those letters don't fit in... Grrr. IrArby fitted well into the melody, though, which is wierd since it has an extra syllable.
ComboTurtle
Smash Lord
drephen come to australia ill mm your marth, i beat ken with kirby when he was in town.
Ryan-K
Smash Master
If you put ignorant like this matching with the letters of bingo
I----G----N----O----R----A----N----T
B---------------I----------N----G----O
it works.
Somehow.
Miggz
Pancake Sandwiches
ROFL! I can't believe you guys are actually singing this.
hahaIrArby
Smash Ace
I write long posts since I can link thoughts together. I pretty much just typed everything sequentially from beggining to end and added in one or two things.
Anyway, Drephen win a decent tournament (more or less exclusively with Marth) or if someone else does it in a ver similar style please, post the vids, and I'll concede. Until then, work on those sh*tty jokes. Ole McDonald? Honestly, you sound like ****ing Micheal Jackson from South Park with the all the "ignorant" comments. Anyway, peace B*tches
EDIT: Oh yeah Drephen, noobs are new people who suck. But, when they stick around longer and continue to suck they are by definition scrubs. Which is what you were trying to tag me with but failed . . . again.
Work on it Ole McCornball, and be thankful this isn't a critique of your failed nursery rhyme jokes.
Anyway, Drephen win a decent tournament (more or less exclusively with Marth) or if someone else does it in a ver similar style please, post the vids, and I'll concede. Until then, work on those sh*tty jokes. Ole McDonald? Honestly, you sound like ****ing Micheal Jackson from South Park with the all the "ignorant" comments. Anyway, peace B*tches
EDIT: Oh yeah Drephen, noobs are new people who suck. But, when they stick around longer and continue to suck they are by definition scrubs. Which is what you were trying to tag me with but failed . . . again.
Work on it Ole McCornball, and be thankful this isn't a critique of your failed nursery rhyme jokes.
Thanks :]Ah welcome to the boards.
NO U
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=noob
If people "fall" for simplistic plays, then they are not prepared for anything. In a metagame, you must be prepared for any situation especially when in a random pool of people (random tournament) and if you are unable to adapt to defeat a strategy then that strategy worked.
Miggz
Pancake Sandwiches
Oh boy...I really hope this thread doesn't become battlefield again. >.<
IrArby
Smash Ace
Did some idiot just quote urban dictionary at me? Noob means someone new who sucks. I'm not new regardless whether I suck or not. If I do suck, I'm a scrub. Its not complicated.
You have 3 posts and can't grasp the obvious differnece between a "scrub" and a "noob". Do you really expect me to take you seriously? Plus your other argument was "NO U". Its not even the fact alone of how many posts you have/don't have will make you smarter/dumber whatever, but simply put, your very inexperienced.
I've argued and been wrong about Marth (and many other things besides) enough times that I started being right after a while. You haven't accepted being wrong enough to know whats generally right and trust me, this is one of those times.
Not even trying to be mean anymore. Just honest. My knowledge is for the most part not exclusively my own or at least it piggy backs on the knowledge and opinions of many good knowledgeable players that I've payed attention to.
You have 3 posts and can't grasp the obvious differnece between a "scrub" and a "noob". Do you really expect me to take you seriously? Plus your other argument was "NO U". Its not even the fact alone of how many posts you have/don't have will make you smarter/dumber whatever, but simply put, your very inexperienced.
I've argued and been wrong about Marth (and many other things besides) enough times that I started being right after a while. You haven't accepted being wrong enough to know whats generally right and trust me, this is one of those times.
Not even trying to be mean anymore. Just honest. My knowledge is for the most part not exclusively my own or at least it piggy backs on the knowledge and opinions of many good knowledgeable players that I've payed attention to.
rustediron
Smash Lord
Newb is someone new, who sucks because they're new. N00b is someone who isn't new, but sucks anyway.
Miggz
Pancake Sandwiches
Are you serious? I just thought it was just two different ways of just spelling an incorrect word.
Binx
Smash Master
who cares, anyways drephen's Marth makes me laugh so hard.
I'm completely serious my throat hurts more than rustediron's after a sucking **** fest.
I'm completely serious my throat hurts more than rustediron's after a sucking **** fest.
rustediron
Smash Lord
Lol, yeah, fair enough
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Why is this topic still alive.
IrArby
Smash Ace
Word. WTF are we going with what Urbandictionary.com says? Smashboards people identify a scrub as a player whos to old to be a noob/newb. Thats a fact just ask LOL Master or Brawl Lover. lol
rustediron
Smash Lord
Because drephen's marth is pwnsomely good :D
soap
Smash Hero
i want new marth vids
just upload some stuff of u ****** watty, idc
just upload some stuff of u ****** watty, idc
its too good.