Rainbow Cruise and Brinstar should both be banned

[Gnes]

Uh, I'm fine on RC now. I would have beat atomsk there if he didnt have the luck of God on his side.

 

[Player-1]

I watched your set and you did some really dumb stuff that just doesn't work on that stage or missed a lot of opportunities =/

 

[Gnes]

Obviously I made mistakes since I didnt win. But considering I nearly beat trevor there who uses that as a consistent cp says something.

Or does atomsk not know the stage either by your standards?

 

[Arcansi]

You are mistaken.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TIv5mo2LbI&feature=related Match 2

I don't misunderstand strawmanning

Then how does this make sense

I don't even see how I can strawman when you only have 1 point.

I only need one point for you to misrepresent for it to be strawmanning

There are no real arguments for it because approaching generally doesn't put you in a complete crap position (although it can against characters like MK and D3) so some people will just take the minor punish and try for it.

Ok

 

[ADHD]

The problem with Brinstar in competitive play

Unlike you'd be thinking I'd say--the acid being slightly random, the overcentralizing of MK, etc.--I'm going to say something much simpler.

On the stage, the tiny slopes create huge problems with shielding. Moves that should never shield poke on full shields will frequently happen, and despite all precautions you will often find yourself slipping off platforms and the ground itself and being hit by moves that were 100% predicted and avoidable on any standard terrain. I'm assuming that this is unique to the stage because of flaws in its design.

This in my opinion makes it ban worthy because it defies the game's basic logic in shielding at times. You see something coming, react, but still get punished, and it's very inconsistent. I'm not just talking about the little spongy area--it's all over the stage.

If I see "well you shouldn't have been shielding" I'm going to rage. The game itself forces you to shield, and on a full shield you should not be getting poked by apparent moves and you should be able to punish predictableness with ease, but brinstar prevents that.

 

[Tesh]

Didn't RedHalberd already make a thread for this? I know you are a super important top player, but you don't have to make a thread to draw specific attention to your opinion.

 

[ADHD]

Didn't RedHalberd already make a thread for this? I know you are a super important top player, but you don't have to make a thread to draw specific attention to your opinion.

Your posts are insanely salty. I didn't think anyone would have touched up on this but alright SORRY HOLY ONE.

 

[T-block]

Merged with existing thread.

Are things actually inconsistent? Or is the behaviour simply not understood so that it seems inconsistent?

 

[ADHD]

Merged with existing thread.

Are things actually inconsistent? Or is the behaviour simply not understood so that it seems inconsistent?

The spongy blocks change constantly so it would be inconsistent in that area. I'd assume the rest is consistent, but different moves have different properties with this. Tornado shield pokes frequently on full shields.

 

[Tesh]

I don't see whats so salty about it, ADHD. Can you imagine how cluttered the boards would be if everyone made new threads instead of new posts?

 

[SaveMeJebus]

RC should be banned because it is a moving stage like 2/3 of the time. Moving stages mess with players ability to space properly. DDD can also use this stage movement to Infinite some characters that he normally can't infinite.

 

[BSP]

...tesh what are you doing with your colors?

 

[Tesh]

I put them in multiple colors now so that no matter what color scheme you use, some of it will be visible. I think its only fair to the vibrant and smash blue and all the others.

 

[ぱみゅ]

He divides colors by phrases and emphatises others' color names? I'd like to see where that's going...


on-topic: WTF with this whole thread?

 

[Arcansi]

He divides colors by phrases and emphatises others' color names? I'd like to see where that's going...


on-topic: WTF with this whole thread?

Give me 3 good reasons RC should be legal

XD

 

[Life]

Be glad I never told Tesh how to get invisible as your color. Hating on everyone is a form of fairness, after all.

Jebus, my scalp is glad that my hair is currently cut too short to pull out dramatically enough to express my rage at the failure that was that post. The stage is 100% predictable, if you can't handle the movement, you are bad. Dedede having more infinites (and I'm assuming that's actually true, as it's something I've never heard about, but it seems somewhat plausible) does nothing when he still gets brutalized by MK on the stage.

ADHD, vids? Not that I don't believe you, I just want to see an example.

Give me 3 good reasons RC should be banned

Fix'd. lrn2burdenofproof

 

[ぱみゅ]

What InCom said.
Stages should be legal until proven ban-worthy.
Only reason I see here towards banning it is people not liking the stage or MK playing on the stage...

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Be glad I never told Tesh how to get invisible as your color. Hating on everyone is a form of fairness, after all.

Jebus, my scalp is glad that my hair is currently cut too short to pull out dramatically enough to express my rage at the failure that was that post. The stage is 100% predictable, if you can't handle the movement, you are bad. Dedede having more infinites (and I'm assuming that's actually true, as it's something I've never heard about, but it seems somewhat plausible) does nothing when he still gets brutalized by MK on the stage.

ADHD, vids? Not that I don't believe you, I just want to see an example.




Fix'd. lrn2burdenofproof

It's not that players can't handle the movement. It's the fact that they have to learn how to space correctly by learning how this stage affects their character's aerial mobility. I think that this is asking too much from a stage considering the fact that this is the only stage that knowledge will be used for. Most other counter picks only require you to learn some sort of pattern. They don't force you to completely change your spacing game

I'll do some testing later but I know for a fact he has an infinite on Wolf and Wario.

 

[ぱみゅ]

What's wrong with learning everything about your character?

FYI, stage do not drags you with it, pieces on Rainbow Cruise are the only ones moving, not the camera.
You can test this by having a character that can stay on the air a lot of time (MK, Peach, Jiggs) and do nothing but jump in place (or float with Peach), and you'll notice what I am refering to.

 

[Life]

The effects of the movement in terms of spacing are virtually nil (pendulum notwithstanding). That's like learning how to add 10-digit numbers when you can already do 9; it's the same thing you've been doing the whole time, just slightly harder. Someone willing to learn how to space on a stage where spacing is slightly different than FD should be rewarded by being able to play that bit better on the stage.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

What's wrong with learning everything about your character?

FYI, stage do not drags you with it, pieces on Rainbow Cruise are the only ones moving, not the camera.
You can try this by having a character that can stay on the air a lot of time (MK, Peach, Jiggs) and do nothing but jump in place (or float with Peach), and you'll notice what I am refering to.

There is nothing wrong about learning about your character. But learning how to space on a stage like RC is like learning ho to Chain grab characters under the effects of a super mushroom. Useless knowledge on a banned stage (or a stage that should be banned)

It still messes up your spacing because the camera is moving you with it while the stages stay in the same place

 

[ぱみゅ]

There is nothing wrong about learning about your character. But learning how to space on a stage like RC is like learning ho to Chain grab characters under the effects of a super mushroom. Useless knowledge on a banned stage (or a stage that should be banned)

No knowledge is useless.
You can always be prepared for certain circumstances better than your opponent and use that for your advantage.

It still messes up your spacing because the camera is moving you with it while the stages stay in the same place

Is exactly the contrary.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

This stage still messes up spacing. It doesn't matter if it is the camera or the platforms. I just don't see why anyone should be learning how to space on a specific stage when most players out there can't even space on regular stages correctly.

 

[Arcansi]

Fix'd. lrn2burdenofproof

What InCom said.
Stages should be legal until proven ban-worthy.
Only reason I see here towards banning it is people not liking the stage or MK playing on the stage...

But they're still playing on a 4:00 - 4:30 timer if the MK is playing right.

Is this acceptable/a skill we want to test?

One

@The Even MU vs MK thing.

Is there any character that can beat mk when he is 100% trying to time out on RC?

Assuming they're evenly skilled.

Two

MK playing on the stage...

MK is one of the characters on the stage 99 if not 100% of the time.

RC forces you to approach metaknight, HEAVILY skewing 99% of matchups in the game in his favor.

As if they weren't already skewed. (NOTE: This was also posted somewhere, but I couldn't direct quote due to issues)

Three

@InCom: All these arguments were literally posted by me, before you posted that I needed proof.

learn to...read?

EDIT: Added sense
EDIT2: Added Three

 

[ぱみゅ]

@Jebus: that's part of being a better player: ADDAPTING. Stage moves? well, space carefully or you'll get screwed. Is not that extreme like on Rumble Falls or Pictochat.

@Arc: InCom said "3 good reasons", you're bringing one... that is not even that good...
MK being too good here is not a problem with the stage.

 

[Arcansi]

@Jebus: that's part of being a better player: ADDAPTING. Stage moves? well, space carefully or you'll get screwed. Is not that extreme like on Rumble Falls or Pictochat.

Pictochat is not extreme unless you ask to be hit by the hazards.

@Arc: InCom said "3 good reasons", you're bringing one... that is not even that good...
MK being too good here is not a problem with the stage.

I'm sorry, I didn't put three do...Wait.

Two was already there...

Did you even read my post?

 

[ぱみゅ]

I read you listed MK, MK and MK.

 

[Life]

I read you listed MK, MK and MK.

^This, basically. A stage being a strong counterpick is not a reason to ban it; otherwise, FD would be banned.

 

[Atomic Yoshi]

^This, basically. A stage being a strong counterpick is not a reason to ban it; otherwise, FD would be banned.

But when combined with Brinstar, wouldn't it be too strong?

 

[ぱみゅ]

Neither Rainbow Cruise or Brinstar are ban-worthy.
Specially if the only reason you find to do so is MetaKnight.

 

[C.J.]

That's when you know a CHARACTER is really good... If your argument for a stage being banned mentions a character, usually at all, but especially as a main or only reason, your argument is BAD. That has nothing to do with the stage. It's called a good CP or an advantageous MU, or *gasp* a combination of the two.

@ADHD, Yoshi/Lylat have slopes/tilt which makes shield pokes happen differently too. EDIT: Also a couple transformations of PS1 have that/the falling into the ground thing.

@Jebus, DDD has more infinites, on a moving stage, where the infinite can't last. You know what other stage also is similar to that? PS1. HEY, it's a starter stage! Also, see first paragraph of this post. You have to learn to space on this stage specifically? Well, you have to learn how to space platform pressure on BF. No other stage (iirc) has the exact same platform height of BF. Ditto SV. And PS1. And Frigate. Etc etc.

 

[Kantrip]

Ugh... yeah......

If the ONLY reason something seems broken is because of one character, guess what's probably broken?

 

[ぱみゅ]

The Counterpick system?

 

[Arcansi]

The Moderators

-_-

Also, it's funny how nobody can really rebute any of my points.

NOTE: I find my points legit because 99%, read it Ninty Nine Percent of RC matches are MK.

And I'm pretty sure if I lowered this to high-level players, it would go up to 100%.

It's kinda like RC is only pickable by MK...Wait, that's the case!

You know why? Pocket MK is EVERYWHERE.

This is not an argument of MK, it is an argument of over-centralization on a stage specific basis. It would be wise to note that if you let this argument stand, my "1 point" becomes 3, as it is represented in 99-100% of all matches that include RC.

 

[ぱみゅ]

The only point you've used this far is "overcentralization", which is not a bad point, but is not good enough to consider the STAGE (RC or Brinstar) to be banworthy.

Also, imo, is mostly a problem with the CP system.

 

[Player-1]

@arc can't watch that vid ATM as im on a phone and arc I have rebuted your points many times already and 99% of matches definitely are not mm not even close lmao

@jebus pretty sure that d3 thing isn't true link me to a source, saying it messes with spacing is ******** as it is very minuscule most of the time and it's predictable and able to be accounted for

@kyo, the camera is moving it just accounts for jumps like peach. You can check this because the platforms don't move against the background nor does the background itself move. You can check if you have unrestricted pause hack on your wii

 

[SaveMeJebus]

That's when you know a CHARACTER is really good... If your argument for a stage being banned mentions a character, usually at all, but especially as a main or only reason, your argument is BAD. That has nothing to do with the stage. It's called a good CP or an advantageous MU, or *gasp* a combination of the two.

@ADHD, Yoshi/Lylat have slopes/tilt which makes shield pokes happen differently too. EDIT: Also a couple transformations of PS1 have that/the falling into the ground thing.

@Jebus, DDD has more infinites, on a moving stage, where the infinite can't last. You know what other stage also is similar to that? PS1. HEY, it's a starter stage! Also, see first paragraph of this post. You have to learn to space on this stage specifically? Well, you have to learn how to space platform pressure on BF. No other stage (iirc) has the exact same platform height of BF. Ditto SV. And PS1. And Frigate. Etc etc.

If DDD grabs you while he is facing left, he can kill most characters by chain grabbing them into the blast zone. If you are one of the characters that can get infinited on this stage, he can just infinite you until the blast zone gets close enough and kills you.

Also, none of those stages change your aerial mobility so your spacing doesn't get messed up on any of those stages

 

[Player-1]

Ddd can't chaingrab the majority of the cast up the slope so that point is invalid

Plus it's hard enough for him to get a grab to get the setup in the first place

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Ddd can't chaingrab the majority of the cast up the slope so that point is invalid

Plus it's hard enough for him to get a grab to get the setup in the first place

It's not hard to get the chain grab or the infinite. All he has to do is grab a character while he is facing left. It can even work on platforms. It's not like setting up an SNL.

 

[Player-1]

You never linked me to the source like I asked. Okay so in order to get this grab you have to be:
-facing the left
-be on the same ground level as the person while there being 6 platforms to land on and not get grabbed
-can't get the grab while the opponent is hanging off stage
-can't get the grab while standing on any of the doughnut blocks
-doughnut blocks must be in the set position
-once the far left wall has vanished, the whole entire top portion of the stage becomes accessible so you can just go camp the bottom platforms to the far right

Yeah a lot of conditions must be met to get one grab. Especially since you can move left to right non stopand jump platform to platform til you reach the end of the stage and just drop down