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R.I.P. Kjell Anders "Nappy" Peterson.
- Thread starter SuSa
- Start date
SuSa
Banned via Administration
I say fix the counterpick system.
Which may result in that.
:leek:
Which may result in that.
:leek:
Savon
Smash Ace
How do you suggest we do that SuSa?
Berserker.
:^)
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2009
- Messages
- 18,990
Don't ban MK.
Exclude him or if not, ignore him and act like all the players who use MK aren't in the power rankings. Lol.
Shame Smash Blue's upper part has MK on it. I mad
Exclude him or if not, ignore him and act like all the players who use MK aren't in the power rankings. Lol.
Shame Smash Blue's upper part has MK on it. I mad
SuSa
Banned via Administration
Stage Discussion --> The Counterpick system is not competitive v2 --> Read the most recent pages.
Fix Game 1.
Remove the Counterpick System entirely
Ban MK
:leek:
Fix Game 1.
Remove the Counterpick System entirely
Ban MK
:leek:
a little extreme, but it could change things for the better when you go over it a little more, cuz as long as mk is there the cp system is sorta pointless anyways
whats your avi from? I feel like I know and its killing me <_<
whats your avi from? I feel like I know and its killing me <_<
SuSa
Banned via Administration
Nu/v-13 from BlazBlue. (2nd time telling you)
Also fixing Game 1 by widening the stage list for game 1 has the opportunity to nerf MK without setting restrictions.
More restrictions is not the option. If you have to limit the game just to nerf one character, said character is banworthy....
Also removing the CP system entirely fixes the problem that it's broken. No more pocket MK's though, so more people would likely tier ***** or switch to MK.
:leek:
Also fixing Game 1 by widening the stage list for game 1 has the opportunity to nerf MK without setting restrictions.
More restrictions is not the option. If you have to limit the game just to nerf one character, said character is banworthy....
Also removing the CP system entirely fixes the problem that it's broken. No more pocket MK's though, so more people would likely tier ***** or switch to MK.
:leek:welcome to the memory of a depressed epileptic getting by on just one too many meds
removal of counterpick system would make me a happy snake
ya, I've always sort of had my pocket mk, its saved me alot more than I ever thought when I think back on it, despite the fact that I never even practiced mk, it was just sort of a thing I started using against bad people in minnesota that evolved into a serious thing at harder tourneys
cuz mk just wrecks some characters so hard on certain stages...you'd have to be bad NOT to win
removal of counterpick system would make me a happy snake
ya, I've always sort of had my pocket mk, its saved me alot more than I ever thought when I think back on it, despite the fact that I never even practiced mk, it was just sort of a thing I started using against bad people in minnesota that evolved into a serious thing at harder tourneys
cuz mk just wrecks some characters so hard on certain stages...you'd have to be bad NOT to win
SuSa
Banned via Administration
I would rather fix it than remove it.
But honestly, both are an option when it's as uncompetitive as it is. Of course, fixing it is far more competitive than removing it.
:leek:
But honestly, both are an option when it's as uncompetitive as it is. Of course, fixing it is far more competitive than removing it.
:leek:
SuSa
Banned via Administration
BPC is probably one of like 3 arguing a good direction for this game.....
He actually uses logical arguments, then people go and try to use ad hominem which is completely irrelevant to his arguments. Because they simply cannot beat his logic so they start attacking his credibility.
In fact, I support like 95% of what comes out of BPC's posts. He constructs them well and brings up very strong points.
:leek:
He actually uses logical arguments, then people go and try to use ad hominem which is completely irrelevant to his arguments. Because they simply cannot beat his logic so they start attacking his credibility.
In fact, I support like 95% of what comes out of BPC's posts. He constructs them well and brings up very strong points.
:leek:
Cherry64
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2008
- Messages
- 3,029
- Location
- Southern Alberta,Canada
- NNID
- Willzasarus
- Switch FC
- SW-2905-1228-1895
Omygawd. you guys are almost leet.
SuSa who is BPC?
SuSa who is BPC?
TommyDerMeister
Smash Lord
maybe you aren't evil-hearted enough
Aww man... There goes my chances of learning the only Disney character. ; 3;
TommyDerMeister
Smash Lord
don't give up, just start being evil as possible.
Do what I do and;
Main Ganon in Melee
Sacred Combo little kids on their last stocks in Melee tourneys.
Chain grab/hobble little kids in tourney with Ice Climbers.
Censor Dodge on any forum you visit, all day.
have little to no regard for anyone but yourself.
only support villainous/evil characters in video games/tv shows/movies
it's easy.
Do what I do and;
Main Ganon in Melee
Sacred Combo little kids on their last stocks in Melee tourneys.
Chain grab/hobble little kids in tourney with Ice Climbers.
Censor Dodge on any forum you visit, all day.
have little to no regard for anyone but yourself.
only support villainous/evil characters in video games/tv shows/movies
it's easy.
SuSa
Banned via Administration
Budget Player Cadet
:leek:
Cherry64
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2008
- Messages
- 3,029
- Location
- Southern Alberta,Canada
- NNID
- Willzasarus
- Switch FC
- SW-2905-1228-1895
Oh lmao. I can't deny that he bring sup good points, but literally half of his posts seem to be trollin' :\
kind of makes him entertaining though.
kind of makes him entertaining though.
SuSa
Banned via Administration
It's 1/2 the people who seem to troll him, bring up ad hominem, and can't argue worth ****, and he gets pissed off by it.
Frankly, I'd be pissed off to if I spent all my time writing walls of text to try and ensure each point is well explained, and people still don't get it.
:leek:
Frankly, I'd be pissed off to if I spent all my time writing walls of text to try and ensure each point is well explained, and people still don't get it.
:leek:no SuSa
and he's a TERRIBLE player, I dont care what you say, you cant deny the fact that he hasn't been to any tournies, jus tplays brawl- wifi, and got...2 stocked by a lucas and ***** in an offline mm
note that he plays mk
a player that bad with no experience shouldn't be telling people anything about this game, he just knows how to make a clean post
and he's a TERRIBLE player, I dont care what you say, you cant deny the fact that he hasn't been to any tournies, jus tplays brawl- wifi, and got...2 stocked by a lucas and ***** in an offline mm
note that he plays mk
a player that bad with no experience shouldn't be telling people anything about this game, he just knows how to make a clean post
SuSa
Banned via Administration
He's played one, and M2K lost to a Ness offline. Your point is?
Is M2K a bad player because he loses to a Ness?
It's ad hominem, and you should stop using it. How about when I back his posts? What are my credentials?
What if I just copy pasted his arguments and posted them as my own. Because I 95% back every **** word he says. (He's said a few questionable things, but that's more about his comments on players than his comments on the game)
The point is his logic is ****ing flawless but you attack his credentials as a player - which has nothing to do with his ****ing logic.
Stop using ad hominem, please. It makes you look bad and it's a fallacy.
PS:
My sig better show up
:leek:
Is M2K a bad player because he loses to a Ness?
It's ad hominem, and you should stop using it. How about when I back his posts? What are my credentials?
What if I just copy pasted his arguments and posted them as my own. Because I 95% back every **** word he says. (He's said a few questionable things, but that's more about his comments on players than his comments on the game)
The point is his logic is ****ing flawless but you attack his credentials as a player - which has nothing to do with his ****ing logic.
Stop using ad hominem, please. It makes you look bad and it's a fallacy.
PS:
My sig better show up
:leek:your sig didn't show up
and dI always argue with him, but its a never ending argument because neither side will give up, regardless of what I say he just ends up skipping over any legitimate points I have and picks on the one thing he can find that seems faulty and will ignore the other points to an extreme extent
it reminds me of religion arguments, you can bring up the best points in the world on either side and noone will acknowledge or change their ideas regardless
its too bad m2k also has alot of accomplishments. But what does BPC have? nothing. lol
I forgot I'm going to a costume party tonight, give me ideas that dont cost money anyone <.<
and dI always argue with him, but its a never ending argument because neither side will give up, regardless of what I say he just ends up skipping over any legitimate points I have and picks on the one thing he can find that seems faulty and will ignore the other points to an extreme extent
it reminds me of religion arguments, you can bring up the best points in the world on either side and noone will acknowledge or change their ideas regardless
its too bad m2k also has alot of accomplishments. But what does BPC have? nothing. lol
I forgot I'm going to a costume party tonight, give me ideas that dont cost money anyone <.<
SuSa
Banned via Administration
Point was that the Lucas example was moot.
My signature is M2K saying he's stupid.
Who is dl?
Also one side doesn't give up because they attack his ethos, and ignore his logic. The only arguments I've seen him ignore are ones that are attacking him as a player, not his arguments. If I'm wrong please link me to where he ignores a "good" point, because I haven't seen it yet.
:leek:
My signature is M2K saying he's stupid.
Who is dl?
Also one side doesn't give up because they attack his ethos, and ignore his logic. The only arguments I've seen him ignore are ones that are attacking him as a player, not his arguments. If I'm wrong please link me to where he ignores a "good" point, because I haven't seen it yet.
:leek:I've tried arguing the legitimacy of stages, and countering his points, its just generally a circle of stage hazards and how certain characters will play out in each one as to if it will balance, or unbalance
like his argument of how top tiers benefit from the current stage list and aren't good enough to be there without it. They're partially there BECAUSE our stage list is what it is, if we decide to change things to a higher extreme nothing will change other than making a few characters worse and other ones better most likely, its a rotation you cant fix, you wont be able to balance this game no matter what you do at this point until we start with getting rid of mk
If I toned down the anger in my posts people would probably listen to what I say ~_~
I bet if I colored my posts and put it in a nicer format that would help too
like his argument of how top tiers benefit from the current stage list and aren't good enough to be there without it. They're partially there BECAUSE our stage list is what it is, if we decide to change things to a higher extreme nothing will change other than making a few characters worse and other ones better most likely, its a rotation you cant fix, you wont be able to balance this game no matter what you do at this point until we start with getting rid of mk
If I toned down the anger in my posts people would probably listen to what I say ~_~
I bet if I colored my posts and put it in a nicer format that would help too
SuSa
Banned via Administration
It's a rotation that you can't fix, but it shouldn't exist.
You do follow the precedents set by the BBR and what people as a whole find competitive, etc? Right? In the end that's at least the goal of the BBR; at least that is what they argue about FOR EVERY CHANGE THEY MAKE.
Yes, it will nerf/buff a few characters here and there, but that's natural. Any change you make to the game will do this. Any change. It's inevitable.
The argument behind the stages is there are only two reasons to ban stages:
1) Over-centralizing
2) Degenerate
All 1 is is 2 to a far worse degree. "Do this or lose" is what it comes down to. If you don't you lose. That simple.
Also, here is why ad hominem is a fallacy.
Many of the arguments I've ever made, people agreed with my logic because of my supposed credibility as a player.
If I took away all my credibility after the fact - does it change my logic in any way? I mean, you JUST agreed with it? What if I said every tournament I've been to was a lie? I've never entered a tourney? (For the sake of proving why it's a fallacy.. haha)
It doesn't change what I'm saying, it just changes the bias you view it as.
:leek:
You do follow the precedents set by the BBR and what people as a whole find competitive, etc? Right? In the end that's at least the goal of the BBR; at least that is what they argue about FOR EVERY CHANGE THEY MAKE.
Yes, it will nerf/buff a few characters here and there, but that's natural. Any change you make to the game will do this. Any change. It's inevitable.
The argument behind the stages is there are only two reasons to ban stages:
1) Over-centralizing
2) Degenerate
All 1 is is 2 to a far worse degree. "Do this or lose" is what it comes down to. If you don't you lose. That simple.
Also, here is why ad hominem is a fallacy.
Many of the arguments I've ever made, people agreed with my logic because of my supposed credibility as a player.
If I took away all my credibility after the fact - does it change my logic in any way? I mean, you JUST agreed with it? What if I said every tournament I've been to was a lie? I've never entered a tourney? (For the sake of proving why it's a fallacy.. haha)
It doesn't change what I'm saying, it just changes the bias you view it as.
:leek:Logic does not equal experience/intelligence, the reason you have your own logic in the first place is because it was based on your actual experience playing the game in a tournament setting offline vs. a plethora of bad to good players because you live in an area thats fairly talented
Something I base heavily on an argument is how good the other player is. I shouldn't say how good, but how much EXPERIENCE they have. You dont necessarily have to be AMAZING, but as long as you've been to enough tournaments and had the official experience of playing under the things you argue for it gives much more credibility/backbone to an argument
He tried telling me I've never bothered playing on these stages, I dont think he even knew that most of them used to be legal in 08...lol. I even had to deal with stages like luigis mansion (that I actually was cp'ing..hahahhaa).
I mean...there were reasons we dropped most of those stages, and something else that bothers me is that BPC doesn't support japes, nor does any other BBR member if I recall, when its borderline being left out of our current ruleset imo, I dont see the problems it can promote like a stage such as...port town -_-
Something I base heavily on an argument is how good the other player is. I shouldn't say how good, but how much EXPERIENCE they have. You dont necessarily have to be AMAZING, but as long as you've been to enough tournaments and had the official experience of playing under the things you argue for it gives much more credibility/backbone to an argument
He tried telling me I've never bothered playing on these stages, I dont think he even knew that most of them used to be legal in 08...lol. I even had to deal with stages like luigis mansion (that I actually was cp'ing..hahahhaa).
I mean...there were reasons we dropped most of those stages, and something else that bothers me is that BPC doesn't support japes, nor does any other BBR member if I recall, when its borderline being left out of our current ruleset imo, I dont see the problems it can promote like a stage such as...port town -_-
SuSa
Banned via Administration
L M A O
You think I create any of my logic based on my tournament play. My logic precedes tournament play, then I use it in tournament play, and **** am I so used to being correct about things.
I throw how good the player is out the window. I attack and demolish their logic.
I support Japes. :x
Actually, I support everything being legal and players to simply have more strikes/bans to make up for such.
EDIT:
08 metagame is different than 10 metagame.
08 metagame *****ed about DDD's chaingrab and walkoffs. FAST.
Hell, Delfino was banned for a while because it had a walkoff.
So was Castle Seige.
Yoshi's Island (melee)....
Green Greens was banned for a glitch that PRACTICALLY NEVER HAPPENS and is REALLY HARD to recreate, and because it has two desctructable walls.
The reason is our community banned things that were "gay", then one day decided we can't do that. Said we don't ban Meta Knight because we don't ban things that are gay and he is not over centralizing (what % is over centralizing anyways? As far as tournaments go, MK is roughly 35-40% of our metagame.... I would assume OC is 70%+ though)
This is also why it seems that more stagelists seem to be getting liberal.
Oh, not to mention how liberal MLG' stagelist is.
:leek:
You think I create any of my logic based on my tournament play. My logic precedes tournament play, then I use it in tournament play, and **** am I so used to being correct about things.
I throw how good the player is out the window. I attack and demolish their logic.
I support Japes. :x
Actually, I support everything being legal and players to simply have more strikes/bans to make up for such.
EDIT:
08 metagame is different than 10 metagame.
08 metagame *****ed about DDD's chaingrab and walkoffs. FAST.
Hell, Delfino was banned for a while because it had a walkoff.
So was Castle Seige.
Yoshi's Island (melee)....
Green Greens was banned for a glitch that PRACTICALLY NEVER HAPPENS and is REALLY HARD to recreate, and because it has two desctructable walls.
The reason is our community banned things that were "gay", then one day decided we can't do that. Said we don't ban Meta Knight because we don't ban things that are gay and he is not over centralizing (what % is over centralizing anyways? As far as tournaments go, MK is roughly 35-40% of our metagame.... I would assume OC is 70%+ though)
This is also why it seems that more stagelists seem to be getting liberal.
Oh, not to mention how liberal MLG' stagelist is.
:leek:
TommyDerMeister
Smash Lord
peach is ******** on japes
Underload
Lazy
Peach is easy on Japes imo
Also, anyone here know anything about the Smash Lab?
Also, anyone here know anything about the Smash Lab?
theres a reason I wrote a blog on aib simply entitled "the brawl community sucks"
I will argue that 80% of brawl players are stupid, whiny, or just flat out bad.
You cant argue anything from this game without having experience...its just that simple SuSa. REAL experience. You probably wouldn't even have the same views as you might have now if you had never been to any tournaments and just stuck to playing wifi every now and then or something
keep in mind you've missed out on basically a full year of this game, and an important one at that
Heres all I can view right now, some people are looking to keep the game more simple and clean stage list wise, almost more simple to a traditional fighter, and some want to just keep throwing more things in with the hope that it will change things for the better (my biased view thats basically a tl;dr of any argument I make of this)
I actually support japeseven though its a bad stage for snake
I will argue that 80% of brawl players are stupid, whiny, or just flat out bad.
You cant argue anything from this game without having experience...its just that simple SuSa. REAL experience. You probably wouldn't even have the same views as you might have now if you had never been to any tournaments and just stuck to playing wifi every now and then or something
keep in mind you've missed out on basically a full year of this game, and an important one at that
Heres all I can view right now, some people are looking to keep the game more simple and clean stage list wise, almost more simple to a traditional fighter, and some want to just keep throwing more things in with the hope that it will change things for the better (my biased view thats basically a tl;dr of any argument I make of this)
I actually support japes
SuSa
Banned via Administration
I know everything about the Smash Lab.
Then I quit because I was sick of people indirectly belittling my intelligence.
@naZzz
After about 4 months of WiFi I quit playing WiFi seriously. I did occasional friendlies when asked.
I would plan my playstyles and tactics through theorycraft, and theorycraft alone.
I would then apply that theory into tournaments.
At most, I would be mildly wrong on things. Not to any large margin. But wrong nontheless.
If you want a small stage list, don't do it biased based off absolutely no backing and no criteria for what defines a "neutral" stage. [Without changing the meaning of neutral]
If you want a small stage list, I already suggested the only way to acquire that.
666 matchups, find the best stage for each and every matchup.
But to do that you have to argue over 14,000~ possibilities, many of them which reach subjective bounds.
Snake's best stages:
Rainbow Cruise
Jungle Japes
Smashville
Disputing this, undeniably shows why this is such a subjective way to create a starter stage list. If you're going to do it in the name of stability and balance, it shouldn't be heavily biased.
Nowhere, NO ****ING WHERE, do I see any supporting argument that static=neutral and dynamic=not neutral.
In fact, I can stay that dynamic is more neutral than static, and have just as much (non-existant) supporting evidence that the static=neutral argument has.
Our current stage list, except maybe Smashville is ****ing horrible.
:leek:
Then I quit because I was sick of people indirectly belittling my intelligence.
@naZzz
After about 4 months of WiFi I quit playing WiFi seriously. I did occasional friendlies when asked.
I would plan my playstyles and tactics through theorycraft, and theorycraft alone.
I would then apply that theory into tournaments.
At most, I would be mildly wrong on things. Not to any large margin. But wrong nontheless.
If you want a small stage list, don't do it biased based off absolutely no backing and no criteria for what defines a "neutral" stage. [Without changing the meaning of neutral]
If you want a small stage list, I already suggested the only way to acquire that.
666 matchups, find the best stage for each and every matchup.
But to do that you have to argue over 14,000~ possibilities, many of them which reach subjective bounds.
Snake's best stages:
Rainbow Cruise
Jungle Japes
Smashville
Disputing this, undeniably shows why this is such a subjective way to create a starter stage list. If you're going to do it in the name of stability and balance, it shouldn't be heavily biased.
Nowhere, NO ****ING WHERE, do I see any supporting argument that static=neutral and dynamic=not neutral.
In fact, I can stay that dynamic is more neutral than static, and have just as much (non-existant) supporting evidence that the static=neutral argument has.
Our current stage list, except maybe Smashville is ****ing horrible.
:leek:Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 19,345
Go as etna then. I will stay at home doing homework the whole day.
Berserker.
:^)
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2009
- Messages
- 18,990
Yeah. It's this thread over here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=286663
I only know one thing: C4 airwalk.
After that, I'm clueless. Lol.
Technodeath
Smash Champion
I'd never heard of the Static/Dynamic part before SuSa..
But what exactly is the difference? Since I assume it's associated with stages.
The only other place I've seen those words used to describe something, was "walls" in Pierce's thread over in the tactical or data boards, can't remember.
Either way, I'll meatride and say I actually enjoyed reading your posts :D
But what exactly is the difference? Since I assume it's associated with stages.
The only other place I've seen those words used to describe something, was "walls" in Pierce's thread over in the tactical or data boards, can't remember.
Either way, I'll meatride and say I actually enjoyed reading your posts :D
Berserker.
:^)
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2009
- Messages
- 18,990
I wonder the stage advantage of Snake against most characters now.
Wooo!!! I got the Scarab Gun and the soccer ball Easter eggs in Halo 2.
Wooo!!! I got the Scarab Gun and the soccer ball Easter eggs in Halo 2.
SuSa
Banned via Administration
Static = doesn't move or hardly effects gameplay if it does (read: Current starter list)
Dynamic = Moves, or in some way effects gameplay. (see: All counterpicks)
A stage that doesn't move doesn't make it neutral. (See: Diddy on FD)
A stage that move's also doesn't make it neutral (See: MK on RC)
Currently we favor characters that do well on static stages. We may as well dictate who you can use Game1 since a large portion of the cast (Sheik is part of this) is not viable for game 1 against a majority of the cast.
Sheik.
Blows.
On.
Neutrals.
Except Yoshi's Island (brawl) which can just be striked, wallah. You just put yourself at an advantage over her Game1 because of stupid stage selection off a limited stage list.
Higher stage list = better median of matchup = overall fairer Game1 = if your character sucks on this, it's because your character is bad.
:leek:
RATED
Smash Lord
I agree with that part of the post, anyone with a "good grammar" can be "cool" in a gaming forum.
Edit: SuSa, from what region you are? SoCal? if that's so you are a lucky one.
Berserker.
:^)
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- Jun 8, 2009
- Messages
- 18,990
Ness ***** all.
Peach is too good.
Napz, Snake is a good choice or Samus. You can try out Peach
Edit: Lol
Edit 2: Lol 2000th post. One more post until the 2000th post excluding the OP.
@Rated: Bad players post made up opinions about match-ups. I respect the people who truly play competitive brawl even though they suck.
I got 5th place in a small local tourney (Like about 15 only). The first to third placers are MKs. Lol
Peach is too good.
Napz, Snake is a good choice or Samus. You can try out Peach
Edit: Lol
Edit 2: Lol 2000th post. One more post until the 2000th post excluding the OP.
@Rated: Bad players post made up opinions about match-ups. I respect the people who truly play competitive brawl even though they suck.
I got 5th place in a small local tourney (Like about 15 only). The first to third placers are MKs. Lol