Quick Question, Quick Answer Thread

[Kinzer]

;~;

I was always told otherwise.

Argh, my bad.

 

[phi1ny3]

Everyone gets a 1 frame advantage when they grab release. The only reason Squirtle can gr>jab is because his jab is 1 frame. ZSS can do the same thing since her jab is 1 frame too.

So wait, everyone gets that grab releases an opponent gets an extra frame over the opponent?

 

[rPSIvysaur]

yeah... what K Prime said seems to hold true from what I investigated.

but the only ones that can take advantage of the +1 is Squirtle and ZSS since there are no other frame 1 options other than shield.

 

[phi1ny3]

true, true

 

[Pierce7d]

Actually, I read somewhere that Squirtle actually does have a 1 frame advantage, which makes the jab guaranteed, but I'm unsure if that's true or not. I was under the impression that breaks were neutral 30 vs 30 frames.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

It's actually 30 vs. 31 frames.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Well, that's what was being said.

Everyone seems to have a !F advantage, but only ZSS and Squirtle can make use of it offensively because their jabs come out on F1.

Freaking ninja.

 

[phi1ny3]

Yuck, read only works on overconfident opponents trying to attack you from grab release.

 

[KayLo!]

Is anybody online atm and willing to help me with multihit moves in OSA2/PSA?

 

[thexsunrosered]

I'm assuming that grabtrap with marth would work on Ganon too... lul I <3 ganons fail

 

[A2ZOMG]

Is anybody online atm and willing to help me with multihit moves in OSA2/PSA?

Next time we're both around, I'm willing to answer questions. I think I have a good understanding of little things concerning OSA2 and PSA.

 

[KayLo!]

Thanks A2! But I stalked rPSI and got him to help me out. I think I got it now. =D

 

[KayLo!]

Double posting like a champ.

Is it true that we're not supposed to post our frame data outside of the Lab? Because I'm reconstructing the research threads for both the Pikachu and Zelda boards, and I think it's pretty dumb that I'm supposedly not allowed to release their frame data. Most of it was found before the Lab was revived anyway.....

 

[rPSIvysaur]

It's fine, just don't label it as the official Smash Lab data until we can officially release it. :X

except in the ROB boards.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

It's fine, just don't label it as the official Smash Lab data until we can officially release it. :X

except in the ROB boards.

Quoting this for my own purposes.

rPSI edit: lol u r so mad.

 

[thexsunrosered]

Quoting this for my own purposes.

rPSI edit: lol u r so mad.

DAYUM thats ****ed up lol

 

[Indigo Jeans]

rPSI must have been on his iAndroid.

 

[KayLo!]

I have a question about trip rates.

What exactly goes into the trip rate that's expressed in-game? I know there's a trip rate value in OSA2/PSA, but it doesn't seem to directly translate to what the move does in-game. I think I remember Veril or somebody saying that knockback directions (most specifically the Sakurai angle) influence trip rates, so I'd like a little more information about that.

For example: Zelda's dsmash has a supposed trip rate of 30%, but I can't recall ever seeing it trip -- definitely not that often, or it wouldn't be a reliable kill move.

EDIT: Also, Zelda's usmash can trip when it hits someone through a platform, but all of its hitbubbles have trip rates of 0.

I can't see any obvious relationship between angles and how they might affect trip rates either since all these moves have very different knockback angles.

 

[T-block]

I think it has to do with knockback. The trip rate is 30%, unless knockback exceeds a certain number. Zelda's d-smash just happens to always exceed that number.

I could be very wrong though xP

 

[thexsunrosered]

yeah kaylo I asked about that the other day. Ganons dtilt is supposed to trip 30% of the time but I've never seen it trip.

On a side note, I did see Zelda's Dsmash trip the other day :O I was really surprised lol

 

[KayLo!]

@T-Block: Yeah, I figured that the knockback of dsmash is too much for it to ever actually trip someone, but then there's the issue of moves like her usmash..... you probably answered before you saw my edit, though. =X

EDIT: @Sun: Seriously?? I've never ever seen it trip, and I've been playing her for over a year, lol! That's interesting to know.

 

[thexsunrosered]

@T-Block: Yeah, I figured that the knockback of dsmash is too much for it to ever actually trip someone, but then there's the issue of moves like her usmash..... you probably answered before you saw my edit, though. =X

EDIT: @Sun: Seriously?? I've never ever seen it trip, and I've been playing her for over a year, lol! That's interesting to know.

nevermind, it was upsmash :/

it's still pretty weird though lol

right here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n5OdcebZMw#t=01m17s

I was so excited too

 

[KayLo!]

Ah, yeah, I've seen usmash trip a lot.... although it's always been through a platform in my experience. Never seen it happen the way it did to Ness there. =O

That makes me wonder even more how trip rates are translated by the game. I PM'd Veril about this question as well, so hopefully he'll get back to me.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

So, I've got a few questions.

The terms hitlag, hitstun, shieldlag, and shieldstun have never really been clear to me. I've always assumed lag is where both you and the guy being attacked are sort of frozen, and stun is where only the other guy is frozen. But I'm not completelly sure.

Also, on that note, the hitlag formula seems to be off... it's Hitlag = Floor[(damage/2.6)*HLM*E], but it doesn't fit with what I tested in FA. ROB's Jab1 deals 3% base damage, but ROB and the opponent are frozen for 6 frames. Can anyone explain?

 

[rPSIvysaur]

You forgot the +5

Hitlag = floor{(Damage/2.6 + 5)*M*E]}

 

[KayLo!]

Weird, I copied it straight from Veril's thread. He must've written it down wrong.

Good to know!

EDIT: What is M? HLM?

 

[Indigo Jeans]

KayLo!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HLM is hitlag multiplier.

 

[KayLo!]

I know what HLM is, just making sure that M was the same thing.

& I'm sorry, I literally copypasted straight from Veril's threads! If anything is wrong, blame him!

Also: does anybody know exactly how long grab armor lasts? Guessing nobody knows about the trip stuff. ;;

 

[T-block]

Hitlag - both you and your victim are frozen when a move connects; your victim can SDI in hitlag
Hitstun - your victim is not frozen, but he is unable to perform any actions; you are free to move (or you're in the cooldown animation of what you connected with); your opponent is able to air dodge or perform an aerial earlier than he is able to jump or use a special; ending hitstun early is the basis of momentum cancelling
Shieldlag - same as hitlag, except your victim is shielding
Shieldstun - state where the victim is stuck in his shield, similar to hitstun

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I got mine from Magus.

 

[KayLo!]

Not sure why you posted that T-Block, but thanks? =X

@rPSI: Well aren't you fancy! Gimme your connections..... I collect formulas. <3 Even tho I rarely use them, they come in handy sometimes.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

I had asked, lol.

 

[KayLo!]

Oh! Completely missed that and thought he was replying to me.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Moves only are able to trip if the opponent remains on the ground after knockback is factored. The Sakurai angle at low knockback levels is essentially 0 degrees on grounded opponents, so it causes trips.

I believe there is also some obscure algorithm that determines how meteors are able to cause people to slip off their feet outside of the normal trip rate.

 

[KayLo!]

Zelda's usmash has a 0% trip rate and angles of 90, 270, and 200. I think it's one of the 200+ angles doing the tripping.

 

[KayLo!]

Okay, another question that hopefully someone can answer. x.x

Exactly how many types of item tosses are there? I know there's light and heavy, but I also see data for smash tosses, which I previously thought were the same thing as heavy tosses. Right now, based on OSA2, I'm assuming there's: light (ground and air), heavy (ground only), and smash (ground and air). Is that correct? Or is some of this data for Snake only (for his nades) and doesn't apply to other characters?

And just to keep track, here're my other questions:

- Exactly how long does grab armor last?
- Trip rate stuff

Sorry for all the questions, but I'm trying to gather complete data for Zelda/Pikachu. =X Kinda asking stuff as I come across it.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Heavy is for stuff that's heavy like crates. Other items exist in this game you know. lol

 

[KayLo!]

Oh.

OHHHHHHHHHHH.

I knew there were two types of throws in the game, so I misinterpreted light/heavy lol.

Thanks rPSI. Especially for making me feel ********.

 

[thexsunrosered]

Heavy is for stuff that's heavy like crates. Other items exist in this game you know. lol

I was curious about this as well, soo... I'm pretty ******** too

I know this is more of a tactical question, but do you guys know how to instant catch/throw something (nades)? I can't figure it out

 

[SuSa]

Airdodge cancel throw.

Airdodge to catch and then flick the C-stick to throw it. (You can press A as well.. just stating the easiest way)

:leek: