[QLD] Brisbane/Gold Coast Meets & Tournaments

[Remastered]

Matt's Meat II

Brawl Singles:
1: Toki
2: SeaDORF
3: Jaice
4: AD3PT
5: Arrow
5: Zeus
7: Vyse
7: Ninja
9: Popdart (DNF)
9: R4VEN
9: Calibur
9: Blade
13: Jordan

Brawl Crews Round Robin:
1. Logan: AD3PT, Jaice, Arrow, Woman(Tiahn)
2. Brisbane: Hotdog, SeaDORF, Zues, Calibur
3. Goldcoast: Vyse, Toki, R4VEN, Blade

Good management, great meat. Santa Smash is going to be a pretty intense tournament by the look of the level of play. Qld just keeps getting better.

 

[J-Birds]

Wanted to come but wasnt feeling it today also visited friend for his 19th
Sif lose to toki nubs...
lol kaion sux now?

Brisbane lose wtf useless apprentices, nothing without me

 

[Hotdog]

Cal's such a derp. So much fail.

 

[xXArrowXx]

sea also played a massive sd fest.
so did i tho XD
and cal..... welllll... 10th pr for him. even tho i 3stocked him in bracket on his counterpick :S

 

[Hotdog]

No PR for him lololololol

 

[Remastered]

If he can get on the PR after 1 7th finish in a tournament ever, and I have been getting 7th all year, I'll be incredibly pissed. Nothing against Cal, he has improved heaps but not for top 10 just yet.

Thanks for the friendlies Hotdog, helped my knowledge of kirby massively. Popdart has got alot better too, and if he didn't have to go home early he may have gotten further. Just needs to learn to chain grab consistantly with IC's.

As much as everyone likes to not take matches with Tiahn (ninja) seriously, she has the potential to do pretty well. She took out Cal in crews.

 

[Aussierob123]

Lol toki last at smashplay followed by first at this one.

 

[xXArrowXx]

random results are random.

 

[Hotdog]

If he can get on the PR after 1 7th finish in a tournament ever, and I have been getting 7th all year, I'll be incredibly pissed. Nothing against Cal, he has improved heaps but not for top 10 just yet.

Thanks for the friendlies Hotdog, helped my knowledge of kirby massively. Popdart has got alot better too, and if he didn't have to go home early he may have gotten further. Just needs to learn to chain grab consistantly with IC's.

As much as everyone likes to not take matches with Tiahn (ninja) seriously, she has the potential to do pretty well. She took out Cal in crews.

You're gonna pick up IC's? zzzzzz

She beat him cause Cal's so baaaaaaaaaayd

 

[Remastered]

No Popdart mains IC's. Read it again lol. Cal made a 3 course/stock meal against Tiahn.

 

[Hotdog]

Lols I just woke up, reading is hard work.

 

[Popdart]

ics are hard to get down pat. It's all a matter of timing and tech (which is probably why i also fail at melee >.>). it was a shame that i had to leave early but rl has to come before smash.

Toki was super on his game yesterday. Every character he chose just dominated every match. And that was only in the friendlies

 

[CaLibUr_1337]

If it makes things any better, I 2 stocked tiahn straight afterwards and did wel in the first lot of crews.. Can't believe I gimped myself after getting hit by thunderjolt sigh... also arrow is a counterpick against me in general lol

 

[Hotdog]

Doesn't make it any better lololololol

 

[J-Birds]

Crews are crews, silly stuff happens its to be expected.

@Cal - First lot of crews?

 

[seaDORF]

lol yeh sorry brisbane, i thought i did ok against gc but failed hardcore against logan, particularly jaice.

cheers for the meet though, good practice need to play more often and against new people

 

[xXArrowXx]

cal did pretty good against kaion's mk tho XD

 

[Remastered]

MK Killer Cal

 

[Vyse]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=292389

All of you (brawl) people give that a read. It may have a strong influence on how we continue to form tournament rules.

(RULES)

 

[J-Birds]

I say no to RC

oh wait i main metaknight now, Go RC!!!

 

[Testikills]

I wonder why the backroom has changed from a suggested rules list to an enforced rules list

* Oh wait the Backroom isn't involved at all lol

 

[Vyse]

I say no to RC

oh wait i main metaknight now, Go RC!!!

Use stage ban on RC.

 

[Remastered]

Everyone who now is up against MK only has one stage they will always ban. Well done backroom. Making it equally competitive since..... never

 

[Vyse]

No different to Melee Peach.

Bans exist so that lopsided stages like RC can stay in the lineup, but eliminated against certain characters.

Or do you never want to play on RC regardless?

For example, I wouldn't ban RC against Snake.

Now personally, I dislike RC, however, I do agree with its existence in the lineup.

 

[seaDORF]

mmmm, that kinda sucks. RC is stupid. I always ban brinstar because i feel i have a chance on every other cp/starter. Now that RC is allowed, mk's will either take me to rc or brinstar. GAAAAAAAAAAAAY

 

[J-Birds]

Use stage ban on RC.

and get taken to Brinstar? lolno
what sea said

mk counterpicks way too hard, but he is da bess afterall

anyhow doesnt bother me none, just sayin ill be switching if i get taken there =/

 

[Vyse]

Rather be taken to Brinstar than RC. That's all I'm sayin'. I figure if Gness can do it, so can I.
AlphaZealot is another longtime advocate of Brinstar for Diddy too.

I know Rocko's tried to take me there to no avail as well.

Either way, you guys are doubting the experience of 5 of America's top tournament organisers. The reality is that this is what may happen. So prepare to learn the stage.

edit: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=11700092

And who knows, maybe we won't adopt RC, but we'll see.

 

[toki]

Nice meet yesterday Adept, was lots of fun ^_^

Will upload that pika vid haha, been busy all day today.

Just go Ganon vs MK on RC <3

 

[xXArrowXx]

rc is stupid.. and has glitches :/
also is not neutral :S any slow moving chara gets *****. also the ledges @_@
gotta use ban for frigit or brinstar or something else like castle :S or defino.

japes is legit right... surely if rc is. or is brawl like play best of 1. then see who is the best on rc with mk?

 

[ACCELERATE]

You guyz are jus down cause you ain't played RC for long.

We been playin dat shiyt for 5 years Son'

 

[Rianogard]

I don't mind fighting on Rainbow Cruise, (provided I am Peach, not Olimar, because Peach floats with the stage) however it should not be a tournament stage because along with MK being brilliant on it, tether using characters and Ness and Lucas are too drastically disadvantaged on it. If stages like Bridge of Eldin are banned because characters are massively disadvantaged against Dedede, why is RC allowed? More to the point, what is the rationale behind RC being a legitimate stage? - along with Pictochat with it's super armour providing whale and ledge gimping diagonal lines?

 

[Remastered]

The amount of times I have been gimped on picto by the stage when recovering is unbeleivable. Caught under transformations. Dash back into the blowing head, coming up and the stage puts lines above me. If only I used MK . I get juggled into the air and all of a sudden a flame appears around me or a plant gets drawn and bam 50% damage. RC is gay, I have been walking along and all of a sudden dropped below the floor where there is clearly no gap, and then become trapped. Not to mention the drop block glitches. Only a few characters gain an advantage on RC. D3 and kirby do, but should never counter MK there. Why? Because MK is broken on RC.

So now that everyone bans RC against their MK player, the MK has a laugh and takes you to the other level that any other character who counters would take you too. I don't care how long these guys have been organising tournaments for. Why give the best character his arguably best stage in the set list?

Bridge of Eldin is broken, but even more BS tranformation glitches Castle Seige is fine????

 

[Vyse]

[collapse=Castle Siege]

Storming The Castle:
A Pocket Guide to Castle Siege
​

Welcome to Castle Siege! (Castlevania Edition)

Castle Siege is currently included as a starter for the 7 and 9 variations of the BBR Ruleset 3.1 stagelist, and as such, it is important to be aware of the different facets this stage. This is basically going to be a general, trimmed-down version of my Marth-boards guide to the stage.

Warning: As usual, this guide is picture-heavy.

​

Stages
​

On that note, the first thing to be aware of is that Castle Siege is composed of 3 main stages, with a transition screen to accommodate the switch between them. The first is its initial format, displayed above. Stage 1 is composed of a single main platform, with two platforms of equal height on either side. The only difference in symmetry is the slight incline in the middle of the stage. The right side is slightly higher than the left.

Stage 1 is also notable for its two small lips on either side. These are especially important to us because one side CAN lip us, and the other CANNOT. (Note: This is Marth-pertinent, other characters MAY get lipped)

The right side is the safe one. The lip is small enough that even if you TRY to lip yourself using DS, you will snap to the ledge, provided you are high enough. The left side, however, is much more pronounced, and it can and WILL kill you if you don't aim your recovery correctly. Pay attention and space correctly, and you'll be fine. It is slightly more touchy than FD, but not as bad as PS1.

Right Lip

Left Lip

​

As for Stage 1's blastzones, I was actually able to get an accurate picture thanks to my stage texture. Left and right blastzones are actually surprisingly large.

The bottom blastzone is quite deep compared to most stages. this is one of of the few where Marth CANNOT recover vertically all the way from the blastzone, but he can get pretty close.The ceiling is pretty average, if maybe a bit short. Be careful not to get hit too close to the top.

IMPORTANT
​

Castle Siege has a very simple pattern for its transitions. It will spend exactly 40 seconds on each transition, and the transition screen in between will take between 2 and 8 seconds, depending on HOW FAST YOUR WII LOADS.

​

It is also worth nothing that character transformations such as Zelda -> Sheik or PT switching WILL be delayed by the stage. The game will load the stage first, THEN your character.

In addition to this, much like the Zelda -> Sheik transformation, pausing the game during the transition screen to allow it to load WILL cut the time down to a mere second or so. Pausing mid-match in tourney is illegal, but it is worth nothing.

Also affecting this transition screen is a strange glitch that will cause a character to not be caught by the floor as it rises up to clear the transition. This appears to be related to holding the ledge during the switch, however I did have it happen to my CPU MK who was just standing there when I was gathering pictures. It's uncommon, and our recovery has no problem dealing with it, just be aware of it.

The transition screen is also an interesting opportunity for us. If you decide to play aggresive, you can score an early kill by forcing your opponent to be close to the blastzone as the stage changes. (This is particularly effective coming into Stage 1 or 3) However, this situation can just as easily be reversed. Because the stage rising up affects your momentum, we lose a significant amount of height on our jumps. I would sooner opt to control the center to gain optimal positioning as the next stage arrives.

Stage 2 is composed of the large inner section of the castle. This includes the main room, the two large statues holding platforms, and the two hanging canopies above. All the platforms on the stage are semi-permeable. The left and right blastzones on this transition are actually quite far. If you DI towards the corners, it is quite possible to live for a long time.

The ceiling for this transition is also quite high, allowing us to survive a very long time vertically.

​

This stage revolves largely around us abusing the platforms to read landings. because they cover the majority of the stage (horizontally), it can be quite difficult to land after beginning a juggle.

Against certain characters with chaingrabs, namely: Dedede and Falco, staying off the ground is advised, as they can and WILL walk you off the side of the stage. Fortunately, the presence of the canopies means that it is not very difficult to stall out the 40 seconds on the transition, especially against Dedede, who is sorely lacking in aerial mobility.

It is also worth noting that the statues holding the lower platforms CAN be destroyed, however their hitboxes are only the statues themselves, not the platforms. I did some rough testing to determine how much damage it takes to break them, as it is not based on a specific number of hits. In training mode (no stale moves) it takes 4 U-Smashes, which does about 20% fresh. In a regular match, it takes 5, which leads me to conclude that the statues can sustain about 70% damage before crumbling.

Another important thing to note regarding the statues is that they are considered destructible environment. What this means to us is that they interact very similar to the destructible portions of Brinstar or Luigi's Mansion. They refresh moves, extend the duration of attacks, and in some cases (like Snakes grenades, IIRC), the hitboxes of attacks.

The most important of these qualities is the extended duration. Moves with a lot of hitlag, like DK's F-Smash, will stay out an exceptionally long time, so it can hit you out of a spot-dodge. This is, however, good for us as well. Because many of Marth's attacks have what is known as "cinematic hitlag", attacks like F-Smash or D-Smash stay out a really long time. Keep it in mind if you are fighting in close proximity to the statues.

Castle Siege's third stage is the large, precariously positioned tilting platform in the caverns below the castle. This stage is basically FD with a bump in the middle. Unfortunately, it also has a rather extreme lip on the platform, so we have to recover with caution. When combined with the erratic tilting of the platform, it can make it quite dangerous to recover.

Stage 3's blastzones are also quite large, in all four directions. Note that for the ceiling, I was barely out of the magnifying glass, so the actual blastzone is higher than pictured.

That's all for the pocket guide. Feel free to read my Marth-specific version if you care.​

[/collapse]

[collapse=pictochat]

PICTOCHAT

Introduction:

With the revealing of the MLG stage list, there has been some debate over the legality of Pictochat. I thought it would be best to get some facts straight about the stage, as there were only a couple of very outdated threads on the topic on these boards. I ran a quick test of four runs through the stage, and there are a few things I feel that everyone should know about this stage before we attempt to argue it. Some of the things I found in this quick experiment were surprising to me as well. I'm also going to include facts about certain transformations and the stage in general that I believe everyone should know. I realize that four runs is not a very impressive sample size, but it was enough for me to disprove some beliefs about the stage, while being sure of some new conclusions. Some conclusions may be disproven with further testing, so please take them as possibilities.

I tried to describe each transformation as best I could. If there's any confusion as to which transformation is being described, feel free to ask and I'll clarify. I don't want to spend time listing the transformations here.

There is a lot of data here, and not all of it is important to read. If you want to read the most important parts of this post, just read the parts in blue.




Observations:

ON THE STAGE IN GENERAL:

• There are 27 transformations, and the game cycles through all 27 before repeating any.
  [*]It usually takes just over 9 minutes to get through a cycle of 27. This means that in a standard 8 minute match there will be transformations that do not appear. If the game takes 5 minutes, there will be around 15 transformations.
• The first transformation appears two seconds into the match.
  [*]The time of appearance and duration of each transformation is not predictable in general. See the Timing section for more details.
  [*]Transformations do not become "active" (you cannot interact with them) until they are completely drawn.
• Drawing time varies for each transformation, but is generally around one second.
• Pictochat has a slightly higher ceiling than Final Destination (vertical kill moves kill ~2% later without DI) (source: Project Vertical)

ON THE TRANSFORMATIONS WITH HITBOXES:

• Missiles do set knockback and generally won't kill with proper DI. Being hit by one does 25%.
  [*]The drawing time on the missiles makes them avoidable, or at the very least shieldable, on reaction.
  [*]It is very easy to influence the trajectory you are sent on by the missiles. Very rarely should you be hit by one into the other
• If left alone, the time at which the missiles explode by themselves seems to vary from halfway across the stage to all the way across the stage.
  [*]Arrows can only hit you when they spawn if you are in the air. If you are on the ground where they will spawn, they will merely push you aside.
• Fire only does 1% per hit and has very weak knockback.
• Arrows, Cart, Plant, Spikes all have knockback that scales with damage.
• Spikes will hit you into themselves and kill you vertically if you are sent flying hard enough into them (unconfirmed)

ON VARIOUS OTHER TRANSFORMATIONS:

• Diagonal Line does not allow you to grab the ledge on the left side. It is the only transformation without a hitbox that can kill you, barring some ridiculous circumstance.
• The two leftmost dominos in Dominos transformation are solid (ie- you can bounce off them as a ceiling). The rest are pass-through.
• Even if in free-fall animation, you can still grab onto a ladder. This makes up-b moves less punishable.
• It is possible to stand "inside" the spring.
• The wind on the Blowing transformation does not extend past the far end of the stage.
  [*]6/27 transformations (Arrows, Cart, Fire, Missiles, Plant, Spikes) have active hitboxes.
  [*]5/27 transformations (Arrows, Cart, Plant, Spikes, Diagonal Line) have the potential to kill you. Missiles is not counted due to set knockback.
  [*]6/27 transformations (Arrows, Bricks, Diagonal Line, Sailboat, Singer, Whale) have temporary "walls".
  [*]3/27 (Bricks, Sailboat, Whale) could leave one player untouchable, if they spawn around him.

ON THE TIMING OF CERTAIN TRANSFORMATIONS:

• The clock always follows the same rotation: the minute hand moves from the 30-minute position to just past the 00-minute position. The transformation always takes approximately 10 seconds.
• The carousel always makes exactly one full rotation. The transformation always takes approximately 16.2 seconds.
• The plant follows a pattern of two bites before leaving its mouth open for a few seconds. It goes through this pattern three times. The transformation always takes approximately 15 seconds.
• The swinging beam always starts at the centre. It makes 4.5 half-cycles before disappearing, ending on the left apex. The transformation always takes approximately 16.2 seconds.
• The cart always starts at the left apex of its path and ends at the left apex. It makes either 6 or 8 half-cycles, taking either 13 seconds or 17 seconds.
• The sheep always starts at the rightmost point of its path and ends at the rightmost point. It moves either 6 or 8 times, taking either 13 seconds or 17 seconds.

Timing:

Raw Data:

Times were taken whenever a transformation appeared (drawing begins) and whenever a transformation disappeared (erasing begins). The times shown for a specified drawing involve times for the blank stage prior to its appearance, followed by the times for the drawing itself. Values would be the value on the timer of a 10:00 match.

Testing was done with only a stopwatch, so there will be some error in the times. These should be accurate to within 0.5s though.

[U]RUN 1:[/U]
DRAWING            ABSENT           PRESENT
Umbrella           10:00.0-9:58.2   9:58.2-9:46.8
Sheep              9:46.8-9:39.2    9:39.2-9:22.4
Clock              9:22.4-9:12.7    9:12.7-9:02.8
Missiles           9:02.8-8:54.1    8:54.1-8:40.8
Dominos            8:40.8-8:33.9    8:33.9-8:22.6 
Swinging Beam      8:22.6-8:17.0    8:17.0-8:00.5
Cart               8:00.5-7:52.6    7:52.6-7:35.5
Spikes             7:35.5-7:28.5    7:28.5-7:16.4
Flag               7:16.4-7:07.8    7:07.8-6:53.6
Singer             6:53.6-6:47.9    6:47.9-6:34.5
Plant              6:34.5-6:27.6    6:27.6-6:12.7
Arrows             6:12.7-6:05.4    6:05.4-5:51.4
House              5:51.4-5:44.1    5:44.1-5:33.9
Whale              5:33.9-5:24.5    5:24.5-5:10.3
Two Trees          5:10.3-5:01.8    5:01.8-4:51.2
Fire               4:51.2-4:42.9    4:42.9-4:31.4
Banners            4:31.4-4:22.7    4:22.7-4:11.0
Sailboat           4:11.0-4:04.0    4:04.0-3:51.2
Bricks             3:51.2-3:45.3    3:45.3-3:30.5
Carousel           3:30.5-3:21.2    3:21.2-3:05.0
Ladders            3:05.0-2:59.3    2:59.3-2:47.1
Platforms          2:47.1-2:38.9    2:38.9-2:27.4
Blowing            2:27.4-2:19.2    2:19.2-2:08.1
Diagonal Line      2:08.1-2:01.1    2:01.1-1:46.8
Tree               1:46.8-1:40.8    1:40.8-1:28.6
Eyes               1:28.6-1:21.8    1:21.8-1:10.5
Springs            1:10.5-1:02.1    1:02.1-0:52.2



[U]RUN 2:[/U]
DRAWING            ABSENT           PRESENT
Clock              10:00.0-9:58.4   9:58.4-9:48.4
Ladders            9:48.4-9:41.8    9:41.8-9:31.1
Banners            9:31.1-9:23.1    9:23.1-9:11.0
Platforms          9:11.0-9:03.9    9:03.9-8:51.2
Swinging Beam      8:51.2-8:45.3    8:45.3-8:29.0
Whale              8:29.0-8:19.8    8:19.8-8:07.1
Flag               8:07.1-7:59.7    7:59.7-7:46.8
Bricks             7:46.8-7:37.8    7:37.8-7:23.5
Sheep              7:23.5-7:17.4    7:17.4-7:04.3
Two Trees          7:04.3-6:56.1    6:56.1-6:45.8
Plant              6:45.8-6:38.3    6:38.3-6:23.1
House              6:23.1-6:13.8    6:13.8-6:02.5
Diagonal Line      6:02.5-5:54.9    5:54.9-5:43.8
Singer             5:43.8-5:35.9    5:35.9-5:22.9
Sailboat           5:22.9-5:15.8    5:15.8-5:01.3
Missiles           5:01.3-4.52.6    4:52.6-4:38.0
Fire               4:38.0-4:32.8    4:32.8-4:20.3
Eyes               4:20.3-4:14.1    4:14.1-4:03.0
Blowing            4:03.0-3:53.6    3:53.6-3:39.6
Spikes             3:39.6-3:31.4    3:31.4-3:16.6
Carousel           3:16.6-3:08.5    3:08.5-2:52.2
Springs            2:52.2-2:43.9    2:43.9-2:29.1
Cart               2:29.1-2:20.6    2:20.6-2:07.2
Umbrella           2:07.2-1:58.9    1:58.9-1:47.1
Arrows             1:47.1-1:39.1    1:39.1-1:28.2
Dominos            1:28.2-1:19.0    1:19.0-1:02.8
Tree               1:02-8-0:57.5    0:57.5-0:44.7



[U]RUN 3:[/U]
DRAWING            ABSENT           PRESENT
Clock              10:00.0-9:57.9   9:57.9-9:48.1
Sheep              9:48.1-9:41.7    9:41.7-9:25.0
Eyes               9:25.0-9:18.0    9:18.0-9:07.1
Ladders            9:07.1-8:58.1    8:58.1-8:44.1
Umbrella           8:44.1-8:37.1    8:37.1-8:26.3
Singer             8:26.3-8:16.8    8:16.8-8:05.7
Flag               8:05.7-7:58.6    7:58.6-7:46.8
Whale              7:46.8-7:37.4    7:37.4-7:26.2
Swinging Beam      7:26.2-7:17.4    7:17.4-7:01.3
Sailboat           7:01.3-6:54.4    6:54.4-6:43.0
Springs            6:43.0-6:35.2    6:35.2-6:21.7
Fire               6:21.7-6:14.0    6:14.0-5:59.9
Spikes             5:59.9-5:52.3    5:52.3-5:41.5
Bricks             5:41.5-5:34.4    5:34.4-5:21.9
Diagonal Line      5:21.9-5:15.8    5:15.8-5:04.0
Banners            5:04.0-4:55.8    4:55.8-4:40.8
Dominos            4:40.8-4:32.0    4:32.0-4:19.7
Two Trees          4:19.7-4:13.3    4:13.3-3:58.7
Blowing            3:58.7-3:52.1    3:52.1-3:40.9
Tree               3:40.9-3:32.4    3:32.4-3:22.1
Platforms          3:22.1-3:14.0    3:14.0-3:00.1
Plant              3:00.1-2:52.3    2:52.3-2:37.2
Carousel           2:37.2-2:30.3    2:30.3-2:14.0
Cart               2:14.0-2:07.2    2:07.2-1:54.1
Arrows             1:54.1-1:45.7    1:45.7-1:35.3
Missiles           1:35.3-1:27.6    1:27.6-1:13.8
House              1:13.8-1:05.8    1:05.8-0:51.1



[U]RUN 4:[/U]
DRAWING            ABSENT           PRESENT
Eyes               10:00.0-9:58.1   9:58.1-9:46.7
Clock              9:46.7-9:37.4    9:37.4-9:27.0
Cart               9:27.0-9:18.6    9:18.6-9:01.6
Dominos            9:01.6-8:52.8    8:52.8-8:38.6
Platforms          8:38.6-8:29.8    8:29.8-8:17.7
Banners            8:17.7-8:09.9    8:09.9-7:56.3
House              7:56.3-7:47.8    7:47.8-7:36.1
Flag               7:36.1-7:29.4    7:29.4-7:14.5
Sheep              7:14.5-7:05.3    7:05.3-6:52.4
Sailboat           6:52.4-6:43.9    6:43.9-6:29.3
Whale              6:29.3-6:22.4    6:22.4-6:11.6
Blowing            6:11.6-6:04.3    6:04.3-5:48.6
Swinging Beam      5:48.6-5:40.2    5:40.2-5:24.1
Bricks             5:24.1-5:15.6    5:15.6-5:03.5
Tree               5:03.5-4:56.0    4:56.0-4:41.7
Spikes             4:41.7-4:34.7    4:34.7-4:20.7
Umbrella           4:20.7-4:11.8    4:11.8-4:00.7
Two Trees          4:00.7-3:54.5    3:54.5-3:41.3
Ladders            3:41.3-3:32.7    3:32.7-3:21.6
Missiles           3:21.6-3:13.0    3:13.0-3:02.3
Carousel           3:02.3-2:55.4    2:55.4-2:39.2
Arrows             2:39.2-2:31.7    2:31.7-2:17.4
Plant              2:17.4-2:09.5    2:09.5-1:54.4
Diagonal Line      1:54.4-1:45.9    1:45.9-1:35.0
Singer             1:35.0-1:27.3    1:27.3-1:13.8
Springs            1:13.8-1:07.7    1:07.7-0:54.8
Fire               0:54.8-0:46.9    0:46.9-0:32.9

This shows the blank time before a transformation,
the blank time after a transformation,
and the duration of the transformation over the four runs.

Arrows[INDENT]Pre- 7.3, 8.0, 8.4, 7.5
Post- 7.3, 9.2, 7.7, 7.9
Duration- 14.0, 10.9, 10.4, 14.3; MIN 10.4, MAX 14.3[/INDENT]

Banners[INDENT]Pre- 8.7, 8.0, 8.2, 7.8
Post- 7.0, 8.0, 8.8, 8.5
Duration- 11.7, 10.7, 15.0, 13.6; MIN 10.7, MAX 15.0[/INDENT]

Blowing[INDENT]Pre- 8.2, 9.4, 6.6, 7.3
Post- 7.0, 8.2, 8.5, 8.4
Duration- 11.1, 14.0, 11.2, 15.7; MIN 11.1, MAX 15.7[/INDENT]

Bricks[INDENT]Pre- 5.9, 9.0, 7.1, 8.5
Post- 9.3, 6.1, 6.1, 7.5
Duration- 14.8, 14.3, 12.5, 12.1; MIN 12.1, MAX 14.8[/INDENT]

Cart[INDENT]Pre- 7.9, 8.5, 6.8, 8.4
Post-  7.0, 8.3, 8.4, 8.8
Duration- 17.1, 13.4, 13.1, 17.0; MIN 13.1, MAX 17.1[/INDENT]

Carousel[INDENT]Pre- 9.3, 8.1, 6.9, 6.9
Post- 5.7, 8.4, 6.8, 7.5
Duration- 16.2, 16.3, 16.3, 16.2; MIN 16.2, MAX 16.3[/INDENT]

Clock[INDENT]Pre- 9.7, (1.6), (2.1), 9.3 
Post-  8.7, 6.6, 6.4, 8.4
Duration- 9.9, 10.0, 9.8, 10.4; MIN 9.8, MAX 10.4[/INDENT]

Diagonal Line[INDENT]Pre- 7.0, 7.6, 9.1, 8.5
Post- 6.0, 7.9, 8.2, 7.7
Duration- 14.3, 11.1, 11.8, 10.9; MIN 10.9, MAX 14.3[/INDENT]

Dominos[INDENT]Pre- 6.9, 9.2, 8.8, 8.8
Post- 5.6, 5.3, 6.7, 8.8
Duration- 11.3, 16.2, 12.3, 14.2; MIN 11.3, MAX 16.2[/INDENT]

Eyes[INDENT]Pre- 6.8, 6.2, 7.0, (1.9)
Post- 8.4, 9.4, 9.0, 9.3
Duration- 11.3, 11.1, 10.9, 11.4; MIN 10.9, MAX 11.4[/INDENT]

Fire[INDENT]Pre- 8.3, 5.2, 7.7, 7.9
Post- 8.7, 6.2, 7.6
Duration- 11.5, 12.5. 14.1, 14.0; MIN 11.5, MAX 14.1[/INDENT]

Flag[INDENT]Pre- 8.6, 7.4, 7.1, 6.7
Post- 5.7, 9.0, 9.4, 9.2
Duration- 14.2, 12.9, 11.8, 14.9; MIN 11.8, MAX 14.9[/INDENT]

House[INDENT]Pre- 7.3, 9.3, 8.0, 8.5
Post- 9.4, 7.6, 6.7
Duration- 10.2, 11.3, 14.7, 11.7; MIN 10.2, MAX 14.7[/INDENT]

Ladders[INDENT]Pre- 5.7, 6.6, 9.0, 8.6
Post- 8.2, 8.0, 7.0, 8.6
Duration- 12.2, 10.7, 14.0, 11.1; MIN 10.7, MAX 14.0[/INDENT]

Missiles[INDENT]Pre- 8.7, 8.7, 7.7, 8.6
Post- 6.9, 5.2, 8.0, 6.9
Duration- 13.3, 14.6, 13.8, 10.7; MIN 10.7, MAX 14.6[/INDENT]

Plant[INDENT]Pre- 6.9, 7.5, 7.8, 7.9
Post- 7.3, 9.3, 6.9, 8.5
Duration- 14.9, 15.2, 15.1, 15.1; MIN 14.9, MAX 15.2[/INDENT]

Platforms[INDENT]Pre- 8.2, 7.1, 8.1, 8.8
Post- 8.2, 5.9, 7.8, 7.8
Duration- 11.5, 12.7, 13.9, 12.1; MIN 11.5, MAX 13.9[/INDENT]

Sailboat[INDENT]Pre- 7.0, 7.1, 6.9, 8.5
Post- 5.9, 8.7, 7.8, 6.9
Duration- 12.8, 14.5, 11.4, 14.6; MIN 11.4, MAX 14.6[/INDENT]

Sheep[INDENT]Pre- 7.6, 6.1, 6.4, 9.2 
Post- 9.7, 8.2, 7.0, 8.5
Duration- 16.8, 13.1, 16.7, 12.9; MIN 12.9, MAX 16.8[/INDENT]

Singer[INDENT]Pre- 5.7, 7.9, 9.5, 7.7 
Post- 6.9, 7.1, 7.1, 6.1
Duration- 13.4, 13.0, 11.1, 13.5; MIN 11.1, MAX 13.5[/INDENT]

Spikes[INDENT]Pre- 7.0, 8.2, 7.6, 7.0
Post- 8.6, 8.1, 7.1, 8.9
Duration- 12.1, 14.8, 10.8, 14.0; MIN 10.8, MAX 14.8[/INDENT]

Springs[INDENT]Pre- 8.4, 8.3, 7.8, 6.1
Post- 8.5, 7.7, 7.9
Duration- 9.9, 14.8, 13.5, 12.9; MIN 9.9, MAX 14.8[/INDENT]

Swinging Beam[INDENT]Pre- 5.6, 5.9, 8.8, 8.4
Post-  7.9, 9.2, 6.9, 8.5
Duration- 16.5, 16.3, 16.1, 16.1; MIN 16.1, MAX 16.5[/INDENT]

Tree[INDENT]Pre- 6.0, 5.3, 8.5, 7.5
Post- 6.8, 8.1, 7.9
Duration- 12.2, 12.8, 10.3, 14.3; MIN 10.3, MAX 14.3[/INDENT]

Two Trees[INDENT]Pre- 8.5, 8.2, 6.4, 6.2
Post- 8.3, 7.5, 6.6, 8.6
Duration- 10.6, 10.3, 14.6, 13.2; MIN 10.3, MAX 14.6[/INDENT]

Umbrella[INDENT]Pre- (1.8), 8.3, 7.0, 8.9
Post- 7.6, 8.0, 9.5, 6.2
Duration- 11.4, 11.8, 10.8, 11.1; MIN 10.8, MAX 11.8[/INDENT]

Whale[INDENT]Pre- 9.4, 9.2, 9.4, 6.9
Post- 8.5, 7.4, 8.8, 7.3
Duration- 14.2, 12.7, 11.2, 10.8; MIN 10.8, MAX 14.2[/INDENT]

WHAT THIS MEANS:

• For many transformations, the duration appears to be random, differing by as much as five seconds.
• Some transformations seem to have consistent durations; namely, Carousel, Clock, Plant, Swinging Beam, and possibly Eyes.
• Some transformations seem to have quantized durations; namely, Cart, Sheep.
  • The duration of these transformations depends on how many times the animation goes back and forth (Cart moving across the track, or Sheep moving from left to right).
  • Some transformations with consistent duration may actually be quantized instead of consistent - It's very possible that Plant and Swinging Beam could vary by going through more animations than was seen in these four runs.
• The blank time before any of the transformations does not stay the same.
• The blank time after any of the transformations does not stay the same.
  • One possibility is that each transformation has a set time before that is blank, and a set time after that is blank. It's unlikely, but if someone would like to follow that idea, go ahead.

In other words, duration and appearance of transformations is not 100% predictable, as some have been claiming. The variance in both duration and appearance can be several seconds - a substantial window that makes predicting Pictochat impractical.

~T​

[/collapse]

[collapse=pictochat safety zone]

This is something I keep trying to explain. It's called positional advantage. Learn the stage.[/collapse]

[collapse=Rainbow Cruise]

Snakes learn to fly here.


Please use and study this picture quite a bit.


Much of what I say also applies to the cast as a whole, so if someone from another forum stumbles upon this - feel free to share it. I care more about advancing the metagame than advancing my character.

Let's begin.

Know the Stage​

Okay, so that's our stage. You start off on A and go around alphabetically until you reach D, which you then go back down to A. I'm sure most everyone here knows this, but learn this stage. You will need to know about when platforms start appearing, when they dissapear, etc. Knowing how long platforms stick around or when they come around is a vital step to knowing this stage.

If you know a platform will be showing up on your right after part C, transititiong into part D - you can jump into "thin air" to have the platform come into existance and save you. This can be a lifesaver.

So get to know the stage.

Part A - I'm on a Boat mother ****er​

Part A of Rainbow Cruise has you on a boat. Due to me not wanting to teach everyone terminology, the left side is the "front". The right side is the "back". Then there is the 'mess hall' which is the part just in front of the back that goes down into the imaginary living quarters. Then we have the sail platforms? Got it? Good.

Things to know:

• 1) Avoid the mess hall in certain matchups. Corners are bad, and DDD can infinite you on this side. MK can also DTILT you to death, along with DK and other characters with similar wall-dtilt-locks.
• The sides aren't very big, if you're facing a horizontal killer stay near the center of the boat.
• Utilt won't kill right when this part starts. You see that to the top right? Yah, people can bounce off that and live. Don't go for a utilt right when you reach this transition from Part D.
• Abuse the only 2 platforms. You can place a C4 on the bottom platform and camp all day with nades near the mess hall.
• Bthrow against the mess hall is usually a better option than dthrow, because you can go for that fsmash. Most people don't tech, because they expect the dthrow.
• There isn't much Snake can abuse on this, other than complete stage control - which we have on most stages. Just play keep away with your opponent.
• If your opponent is on the back end, FH nairs can keep them over there and score some low-mid % KO's.
• Near the transition to Part B the front end of the boat goes down. Try not to get hit underneath that, as you'll likely die. Also avoid getting stage spiked there.

Summary:
Play keepaway

Part B - Snake learns to Fly​

Part B of Rainbow Cruise has you jumping up platforms with some magic carpets in the way, and one of the platform teeters. The goal here is to stay above your opponent and rain an arsenal of grenades and C4 on them to keep them below you. Odd enough that this is probably the one time in this game you want your opponent below you as Snake.

You can abuse the instant-grab with Grenades on this part of the stage, and I'm willing to bet we can platform cancel on every single one of these platforms to speed up your movement. So practice that platform cancelling until you perfect it.

Things to Know:

• This scrolls up, so being down is bad. Keep your opponent below you.
• You can tech off the yellow blocks if you get hit at them, try to DI towards those and tech if able.
• You cannot drop through magic carpets (IIRC), so avoid them. They are bad, you will want to be able to drop down if able to. Don't limit your mobility!
• Likewise, if your opponent is on a carpet - an attack from below may own them as they try to drop through dair you.
• Before the full transition to Part C, you can tech off the yellow blocks with the pendulam. DI towards those and tech if you can.
• Be the first onto the pendulam. This is important.

Summary:
Stay above your opponent, spam grenades and C4 like you never have before.

Part C - The Pendulam​

This part is one of the funnest, but shortest parts, if you know what you are doing. Luckily gimping Snake is a lot harder on this part than people think, due to being able to tech off the yellow blocks. The Pendulam can really screw you and your opponents up when trying to recover, so unless you are 100% sure you are going to land on it, blow yourself up with C4. Trust me, I've SD'd a few times thinking I was going to land on it and I ended up dying. It's not something you want to happen in tourney. Also, don't miss your techs on those yellow blocks if you do C4. You'll like bounce straight to your death.

Things to Know:

• You can drop grenades/c4/mines onto yellow blocks, and the yellow block with fall. This will place the above on the swinging pendulam. Sound awesome? It is. But it's hard to abuse.
• You cannot drop through the pendulam (IIRC), so don't try it. Stay near the part where you can best DI towards the yellow blocks to tech. This is usually just whatever is the closest part, so standing on the left edge when it's swinging to the right isn't a bad thing.
• The platforms on your left are still there for a while, if you get knocked over there during the early parts of this transition - you can land on those platforms really fast to help you recover.
• The platforms on the right appear after a certain amount of time, learn this time so you can stay over there if knocked over there. This can be a lifesaver.
• This is one of the best times to try and get a utilt KO. You can get a stage-like spike hitting them off the yellow blocks, and the cieling is low enough to get some earlier KO's than usual.
• If you read the above, you may have gathered that grenades/c4 can also be a great KO power here due to the 'stage spike' off the yellow blocks.
• Avoid using any aerials unless you know you'll be safe.
• You can bounce grenades off the pendulam by throwing them down.

Summary:
Stay close to the blocks, abuse how the pendulam swings and how it can allow this blocks to 'stage spike'. Try to minimize your aerial usage, but make sure to abuse enemies recoveries when the pendulam is far and you are able to.

Part D - The road to victory​

There is so many platforms and places to abuse on this transition, it's easily my favorite part. You can score low % utilt ko's, the horizontal edges depend on where you are - and sometimes you can score a low % ftilt KO, and the platforms allow for some fsmash shenanigans. Against DDD/Pikachu/Falco however, this transition can be one of the scariest due to chaingrabs - however we gain a stronger grab release on most of the cast when facing left.

Things to Know:

• When facing left, if you grab an opponent - the stage movement effects how they break out. This allows us to walk a little and Utilt Meta Knight and a few other characters. We can even grab release chaingrab MK (99% sure) which can be useful for getting him close to the wall for an fthrow KO.
• There is one spot with a wall, if you can get your opponent on this you can pound on them with ftilts and grenades keeping them there and grab release CG them against the wall for some free %'s. Yes, you can grab release CG MK here as well. Abuse that.
• Your Utilt kills quite a bit sooner during this transition, if you're going for a utilt KO try to get it before you get to Part A all over again.
• Fsmash has a hitbox diagnolly and a bit down from it, there's a lot of platforms and against taller characters you can get some fsmash shenanigans in there. It's easier to land than you think.
• Just like Part B - abuse the platforms with platform cancels and instant-nade-grabs. In certain matchups, you'll want to stay on the platforms to avoid being CG'd to your death.
• Keep your opponent on your left side, but try to stay near the center. The blast zone for the stage is uneven that way and you'll score sooner KO's off the left side than the right side.
• During the transition to part A, you can grab release CG people against the wall into a utilt for KO's at about 30-40%. It's very very stupid and I've pulled it off in tournament.
• Be careful of the right side when it's transition to Part A. The blast zone is a lot closer than it should be.

Summary:
Stay on the right side, it's the best side and we gain a lot of grab release shenanigans on the cast. Utilt kills sooner during this phase, so now's the time you'll want to land it. We have infinites against practically the entire cast against the walls - you can abuse this to hell for an early kill if you can land the grab.

A few more stage facts​

• There are a lot of uneven platforms and walls that you can rebound grenades off of.
• The stage gimps you more than the enemy does - learn the stage!
• Platform abuse is the best abuse.
• Dthrow is amazing on this stage due to the amount of short length platforms and areas to dthrow. The blast zone also limits certain reactions often, and a good dthrow tech chase can lead in low % ko's or a ton and ton of damage racked.

Summary:
Rainbow Cruise is by far one of my most favorite counterpicks, ever. I actually got to the point that some players including Meta Knight players started to ban it against me. There is a lot of camping shenanigans and grabbing shenanigans to last a lifetime. Snake can tank pretty well with good DI but kills at really low %'s. He controls the stage at nearly all times, and there are few areas where you can truly gimp him. All of Part A, B, and D are pretty safe if you know what you're doing. Part C is risky but still hard to be gimped during.

I love this stage.

:leek:

[/collapse]

So as I said, learn the stages.

I realise that if you read this, you have a lot of basis to make arguments and for the most part I agree with you.

But, I also think things such as the randomness of Pictochat are as acceptable as Dedede's Gordos or GnW's 9-hammer. And that still being forced to a good stage for MK after striking cruise is a reflection of why he is top tier.

I'm not afraid of MK on Brinstar or Lylat. And P-1 swears by RC for Diddy even against MK.

As far as I'm concerned, any stage where the ledge can be grabbed is broken for Metaknight.

EDIT: lol

Summary:
Rainbow Cruise is by far one of my most favorite counterpicks, ever. I actually got to the point that some players including Meta Knight players started to ban it against me.

But yeah, remember I'm just trying to play devil's advocate here. I'm listening to people on both sides of the story and it'll help me make decisions.

 

[Hotdog]

I love all da stages, expect Lylat cause that is gay.

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

so much wahwah >_> l2play against mk


btw on the 12th, sunday me and lachlan are having a smash/itg day when Dave(Caotic) comes down for the weekend. all are welcome but we don't have any brawl sozlol. address coming soon.

 

[Remastered]

Thats all well and good, but it still doesn't explain the reasons I mentioned up above for them to be banned. What it also doesn't mention is the kirby land characters and snake also have autokills on transform of castle seige. D3 can chain during transform stage. The right hand side gimps more than half the cast due to only some having the right recovery and ledge grab range to get around it (but that isn't really a reason to ban it). Castle isn't broken because of the second transformation. Its the stuff during transformation that makes it BS. Even if it is for D3.

Picto is completely random, therefore you still die if it decides to draw something in front of you when recovering or being juggled. Not to mention you can actually be put through the edges with some down throws on some transformations. Therefore not allowing recovery. Unless your MK , or a few others who can recover well.

We all know how the stages work, it doesn't change why they shouldn't be allowed. To be honest, any stage that transforms or moves are terrible for Ness and Lucas. The stagelist as it is now promotes everyone to play even more MK.

 

[Popdart]

the thing about stages is that someone will complain about every stage even something simple like FD. While i do agree that pictochat is useless (as are all stages that can hurt you) the fact is it encourages diversity and different play styles. It also separates out the people who know how to play stages and the people who don't. For diversity's sake, pictochat & rc should be included

 

[toki]

Castle siege as a starter? yay <3

http://img842.imageshack.us/g/251172.jpg/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9h8L4EdKFM

 

[luke_atyeo]

pictochat is the best stage ever.

 

[Hotdog]

If you get chain grabbed off the side during the stage transformation against D3... you probably deserve it.