Pummel vs. Throw?

[Veril]

Initially I posed the idea of pummeling vs. throwing when near the KO% for f-air. This was because there is a substantial gap between when you can KO with f-air vs. other options like up-tilt. While this might seem like throwing away 10.5 damage, a fresher f-air seems like a good thing. Especially given our grab-releases.

This is usually not a very good option. Just be careful with use of f-air and know the limit to pummels before throwing. I would say there are a few exceptions to this. One is ledge grab-releases, MK and Wario (if you manage to grab one lol) are just a few good examples. Forcing ground releases on Ness might be a good idea since we can regrab him.

Summary: throwing is more effective than grab-releasing in almost every situation.

Also, up-tilt does kill earlier than up-smash.

 

[Glick]

UPTILT is her most underused killer. use it.

 

[TheStig]

utilt kills at the smash percentage as usmash

 

[Airgemini]

I do this a lot with Peach as well.
I like to Pummle until they ground release to Fsmash, Dash Attack, or anything else that can cover the distance.

 

[K 2]

About what percents does uptilt kill at?

Also, how viable is fsmash as a kill move? I noticed it was rather powerful, but really slow.

 

[Airgemini]

I believe Utilt kills before an uncharged Usmash vertically.

 

[Metatitan]

i love utilt. i still use jiggs for friendlies, but i use fair a lot more since idc if i win or lose, and im actually doing better. its harder killing of course but its not impossible

 

[Thinkaman]

Arg this is so wrong!

Don't ever let your opponent get a grab break against Jiggs; you are letting them escape a free 10.5%!

The idea of getting KOs as Jiggs is that you are forcing their options to converge to a point where killing them is inevitable, like two walls crushing them. One side of this wall is 90% kills from rollout or fair... the other is a 150% KO from u-tilt, bair, uair, or pound. Focusing only on one is foolish, because you can't squeeze a person into checkmate with a single "wall". You need them to defensively avoid fairs so your damage output is much higher than their's, and you need them to be afraid of the massive amoutns of damage you are putting on them so you might possibly land a fair. You can't bluff when you always play the same hand.

Pummeling until ground break is extremely nooby to begin with, since you should know exactly how many jabs you should get off before they break anyway! This is such a blatantly easy thing to learn even by watching your opponent play a single match against someone else, even a completely different matchup. In other words, pummeling until they break out gains you nothing in terms of staleness.

On top of that, getting a fresh fair is a lost cause if you have a good number already in the stale moves list... and if you have staled fair, you might as well go all the way and milk it for all the easy damage you can get. The extra 10.5% from the throw, in addition to the favorable setup throws create for Jigglypuff, far outweigh the 1% or 2% increase in damage/knockback an extra pummel would give your fair.

Even Lucario is not an exception.

U-tilt doesn't kill quite as fast as u-smash. U-tilt kills at "rest + 50%".

 

[MrEh]

Grab release Fair MK at the ledge. Other then that, don't bother.

In any case, only pummel if you have a guaranteed throw afterwards. 10% is too good to pass up.

 

[Veril]

Hmm, I'll make an edit to the initial post to reflect the views and strategic input of you guys. It was an idea, in practice I generally just try to keep f-air unstaled. I also will use d-throw in friendlies whenever possible due to the innate satisfaction of having Jigglypuff sit on someone.

Good stuff! Thanks Think and MrEh...

 

[MrEh]

Oh yeah, grab releasing Shiek, Fox, and Falco at the ledge is sweet.

Edgehog bait.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Omg, rotating throws racks up damage so quickly its so retarted.

Also, don't use your f air at all until your ready to kill with it. Because I know that f air can kill fox at 100%. However while playing a fox online I wasn't able to kill him with f air or b air until 170% because I did it at the wrong time. If you do your arieals at the wrong time you won't be able to kill for quite a while, rest is hard to get, rollout is easy to dodge, dash attack is your only other option and its very punishable if shielded.

Back to the topic, pummling is dumb if your going to let them out of it. Your losing a % there and you can follow up with pound or fair if they airdodge out of hitstun from the d throw and u throw.

 

[MrEh]

Using Fairs early in a stock is fine, since you can most likely refresh it by the time you get into killing percentages.

Just keep in mind that you need it fresh later, and throws/pummels are a good way to refresh it.

 

[PND]

Early stock I usually mix in fair to maximize the damage output of bair and fair. Percents rack up really quickly this way.

 

[Jigglymaster]

I think when you hit anything that can be hit it refreshes such as the stones in castle siege. I'm thinking about cping with it and punishing with grabs from character's laggy arieals due to hitting the stones.

 

[SexTornado]

Pummel is not better than throw im afraid.

 

[Hence]

Pummel is not better than throw im afraid.

There are very rare circumstances where I'd pummel release just for the 3% repeated beating. Jigglypuff's grab game is so good though.

 

[TheStig]

At around 60 to 70 percent you can pummel them twice and it'll do about 16 damage with a throw

 

[tEhrXXz0r]

If your opponent is at above 100% and you grab them, it's just better to pummel and release them instead of throwing. Pummeling will refresh your other moves and if they get released, you can follow up with some air game mindgames for the kill.

 

[Glick]

Lately I've been fthrowing, predicting the air dodge then fairing as a killing tactic.

I picked it up in brawl+ and realized with a little mindgames it's viable in vbrawl as well.

It doesn't work all the time though, sometimes you'll get hit in the face really hard.