Jonny Westside
S4mus Fiend
Well...if the team manages to make P:M ridiculously melee accurate then there will be a split in the community IMO.
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Project M Social Thread
- Thread starter Project M
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GuruKid
Smash Ace
Zelda Hitbox and Frame Data is up: http://www.smashmods.com/forum/thread-4642.html
As with D3's, it's still a work in progress.
Smashmods has lately become more of the hub for P:M discussion as well. We have a whole forum available over there, while on Smashboards we're limited to... this thread.
As with D3's, it's still a work in progress.
Well since people have a playable demo to experience P:M, I would assume people are more about actually playing the game than simply talking about future developments.
Smashmods has lately become more of the hub for P:M discussion as well. We have a whole forum available over there, while on Smashboards we're limited to... this thread.
Archangel
Smash Hero
Good points. As for a community split....yeah it's possible. People still play smash64 though but there really is no way to predict what will happen. Unlike 64-melee-brawl. Project M is the first to completely upgrade while maintaining the exact same playstyle. The last 2 years have shown one thing though. The more Project M becomes like melee the bigger it gets. I have a feeling if(When) Project M becomes 100% melee accurate It will be big enough to hold it's own events. I personally think Melee/Project M tournaments would be awesome. The major things people have to get use to is the fact that there are newcomers and the fact that ****ty characters in melee will be competing with/beating characters they use to get auto-4stocked by.
That aside I see no reason why a Completed Project M(all goals met, all problems fixed/addressed) wouldn't be the logical step for the survival of smash. If people are holding their breath for SSB4....don't.
That aside I see no reason why a Completed Project M(all goals met, all problems fixed/addressed) wouldn't be the logical step for the survival of smash. If people are holding their breath for SSB4....don't.
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
Looking forward to Project B starting up when they remove Banana Locking and IC handoffs.
Archangel
Smash Hero
Who would take 3+ years to make that game?
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
No need to install anything anymore. Thanks to the wonders of TECHNOLOGY!™, the "hackless method" allows anyone to play Project M with a simple 2 GB or less SD card and nothing more.
GKInfinity
Smash Champion
Legiittttttt, thanks guru kid. Btw, back in the day ('08 I think) I had quite a few people think that I was actually you lol. It makes sense I guess since GK could very well be an acronym for your gamer tag haha
metroid1117
Smash Master
Great work, man! Thanks for putting the time and effort into doing this, this is very helpful
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Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
Better than being gangstakirby.
Jebril
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2007
- Messages
- 85
Demo feels great, so far looking into the characters it's hard to say who's bad as all characters seem at least viable at this point.
Charizard seems a tad weak though not because of his movelist, his movelist is fine in fact, but his power is a bit on the weak side for a heavy character.
ROB I think deserves 5 not 3 Up Bs honestly, and his top should go faster out.
Right now the really strong characters seem like Bowser, Ganon, Sonic, DDD Marth, Sonic, maybe, Toon Link, Wolf and a few others.
Bowser and Ganon strike me as a bit OP TBH, there range is incredible, they are very heavy, have pretty good recoveries, good moves to get through shields and break them, and very good power. Not to mention Bowser's Up B OoS is amazing (I saw the move do 33% damage in the air on someone) and his super armor frames make him a lot like Hulk from MvC except you can L-Cancel his aerials now.
Peach is good, the D-Smash range is not quite as good as Melee however, but D-Smash is considerably better. She looks she's about Mid-Tier, I honestly don't like the Peach in this one as much as Brawl sorry to say. She's missing Glide-Toss which was huge in Brawl and turnips aren't too hard to catch and throw back at your opponent in one short hop, which makes them only useful from far away really. Her grab range is also pretty pathetic....seriously, she's grabbing with her elbow again lol. I actually don't like how much higher her second jump is too, it's near impossible to keep a combo going with now like it did in Brawl. And her range on a lot of her moves is pretty bad, like F-Tilt and especially F-Air. She only excels because of her naturally GOOD moveset.
I love DDD, the character seems potentially OP because of his easy tech chases, basic good options (plays almost identical to Brawl lol) and great killing power, his new F-Air is amazing as well. Did you guys up his Gordo chance BTW? I get them A LOT more frequently now, not complaining but yea it should probably be lowered, I get about 4 a match now.
Fox is weaker than in Melee, he's still fast I'm not sure it's the same though as it was in Melee. Haven't played him much though TBH but I definitely noticed his B-Air is a lot weaker.
Jigglypuff could potentially be a weaker character, but maybe not. She doesn't have as many options as most characters of course, but her options are solid and basic that's what makes her good. She still has a great recovery and all, she lacks as much power, her rest is of course insane but I haven't experimented with hit confirms on it yet.
Falco, I like Falco keep him this way. I like the idea of making him only be able to do single laser.
Wolf is very good, crouch canceling D-Smash is very scary and works pretty much the same way that spamming D-Smash in Brawl did, it's terrifying to deal with and hard to punish. His B-Air while not BAD isn't good either. His recoveries are a lot more solid now a day and I like that he's still able to go through SV from the ledge with his Side-B, keep it please!
Pikachu is ridiculously good he might also have the ability to be a top tier character, IMO, great options, fast and he actually has a good amount of killing power of his N-Air and his Smashes are incredibly strong (F-Smash especially).
Mario is a lot more solid this time around, I honestly think his B-Air needs more range though, it would help him become a good character instead of just solid for me.
Luigi is bad though I feel...but maybe the person I'm playing that uses him is bad lol. He has some good things about him like the ability to do an aerial pretty much right after tornado is good for him and works as a mix up, but his range is small on his F-Smash still and his recovery is terrible. Does tornado raise him in the air or has that stopped from Brawl?
Ike seems really good, he has a lot of power and he can L-Cancel all his powerful aerials, with that range makes him very scary. Also with Ike I noticed he can grab BEHIND him sometimes, not sure if all characters can do this, but I've seen it twice or maybe three times with specifically Ike grabbing characters behind him now.
Sheik is Sheik from Melee, which is very good except in two instances for me; charging needles, is it really necessary to keep that you must hit L to stop charging needles even when they are fully charged? Also tethering with Side B? Why take it out? The change from Melee to Brawl made sense and was very useful, I don't think taking out makes sense right now. I feel this is just for the sake of Melee and not for actual gameplay's sake. She is very powerful and has very good tech chases, good range and her Up B works even better than in Brawl (bigger hitbox no longer causes that wind effect so it can actually kill even while sliding I believe). She can still do sliding vanish with it, which is good and a fun way to get to the ledge.
Captain Falcon is just like in Melee, very fun character just right for me so far.
Lucario honestly seems a tad weak, but again I don't play him much at all (don't like the concept for me) but play against someone who plays him, I notice I can interrupt him with attacks or a grab between his links on the magic system, is this suppose to happen? His "super" is also not as useful as it may appear, it has a ton of start up, which in this game means it has to be used from far away, at that point it's not too difficult to avoid, but perhaps again my opponent is just simply not as good. (We are both still learning)
Sonic seems very good to, in fact he's probably top tier, I'm 90% sure he's at least High Tier in this game, the fact that he can link almost anything off his Side-B to N-Air or B-Air means easy kills and he's very hard to actually hit on certain stages in fact any because of his speed and how good his mobility is. His recovery is also pretty good in terms of actually getting back to the stage and it's mix up.
Lucas seems like a mid tier character in this game, very possible early kills with charged smashes, but his Down B isn't as useful as it used to be, and his Side-B isn't anywhere near as good as it was in Brawl. I like the ability to hit with tether now and I'm pretty sure the grab range has been extended now to actually be worthy of a tether recovery.
Also not sure if this has been discovered, but if you crouch cancel a dash on the ledge and spin the stick in the other direction, your character will instantly grab the ledge, this way you don't need to wavedash backwards to the ledge or jump back. Works almost exactly the same as in Brawl's ledgegrab except this time you have to spin the stick and you have to have a running start so you're not in the initial animation of dashing. Very useful technique.
Only played this for about a week so far, so I'm still testing stuff out and seeing how it is. Really fun though and I actually like it more than Brawl!
Charizard seems a tad weak though not because of his movelist, his movelist is fine in fact, but his power is a bit on the weak side for a heavy character.
ROB I think deserves 5 not 3 Up Bs honestly, and his top should go faster out.
Right now the really strong characters seem like Bowser, Ganon, Sonic, DDD Marth, Sonic, maybe, Toon Link, Wolf and a few others.
Bowser and Ganon strike me as a bit OP TBH, there range is incredible, they are very heavy, have pretty good recoveries, good moves to get through shields and break them, and very good power. Not to mention Bowser's Up B OoS is amazing (I saw the move do 33% damage in the air on someone) and his super armor frames make him a lot like Hulk from MvC except you can L-Cancel his aerials now.
Peach is good, the D-Smash range is not quite as good as Melee however, but D-Smash is considerably better. She looks she's about Mid-Tier, I honestly don't like the Peach in this one as much as Brawl sorry to say. She's missing Glide-Toss which was huge in Brawl and turnips aren't too hard to catch and throw back at your opponent in one short hop, which makes them only useful from far away really. Her grab range is also pretty pathetic....seriously, she's grabbing with her elbow again lol. I actually don't like how much higher her second jump is too, it's near impossible to keep a combo going with now like it did in Brawl. And her range on a lot of her moves is pretty bad, like F-Tilt and especially F-Air. She only excels because of her naturally GOOD moveset.
I love DDD, the character seems potentially OP because of his easy tech chases, basic good options (plays almost identical to Brawl lol) and great killing power, his new F-Air is amazing as well. Did you guys up his Gordo chance BTW? I get them A LOT more frequently now, not complaining but yea it should probably be lowered, I get about 4 a match now.
Fox is weaker than in Melee, he's still fast I'm not sure it's the same though as it was in Melee. Haven't played him much though TBH but I definitely noticed his B-Air is a lot weaker.
Jigglypuff could potentially be a weaker character, but maybe not. She doesn't have as many options as most characters of course, but her options are solid and basic that's what makes her good. She still has a great recovery and all, she lacks as much power, her rest is of course insane but I haven't experimented with hit confirms on it yet.
Falco, I like Falco keep him this way. I like the idea of making him only be able to do single laser.
Wolf is very good, crouch canceling D-Smash is very scary and works pretty much the same way that spamming D-Smash in Brawl did, it's terrifying to deal with and hard to punish. His B-Air while not BAD isn't good either. His recoveries are a lot more solid now a day and I like that he's still able to go through SV from the ledge with his Side-B, keep it please!
Pikachu is ridiculously good he might also have the ability to be a top tier character, IMO, great options, fast and he actually has a good amount of killing power of his N-Air and his Smashes are incredibly strong (F-Smash especially).
Mario is a lot more solid this time around, I honestly think his B-Air needs more range though, it would help him become a good character instead of just solid for me.
Luigi is bad though I feel...but maybe the person I'm playing that uses him is bad lol. He has some good things about him like the ability to do an aerial pretty much right after tornado is good for him and works as a mix up, but his range is small on his F-Smash still and his recovery is terrible. Does tornado raise him in the air or has that stopped from Brawl?
Ike seems really good, he has a lot of power and he can L-Cancel all his powerful aerials, with that range makes him very scary. Also with Ike I noticed he can grab BEHIND him sometimes, not sure if all characters can do this, but I've seen it twice or maybe three times with specifically Ike grabbing characters behind him now.
Sheik is Sheik from Melee, which is very good except in two instances for me; charging needles, is it really necessary to keep that you must hit L to stop charging needles even when they are fully charged? Also tethering with Side B? Why take it out? The change from Melee to Brawl made sense and was very useful, I don't think taking out makes sense right now. I feel this is just for the sake of Melee and not for actual gameplay's sake. She is very powerful and has very good tech chases, good range and her Up B works even better than in Brawl (bigger hitbox no longer causes that wind effect so it can actually kill even while sliding I believe). She can still do sliding vanish with it, which is good and a fun way to get to the ledge.
Captain Falcon is just like in Melee, very fun character just right for me so far.
Lucario honestly seems a tad weak, but again I don't play him much at all (don't like the concept for me) but play against someone who plays him, I notice I can interrupt him with attacks or a grab between his links on the magic system, is this suppose to happen? His "super" is also not as useful as it may appear, it has a ton of start up, which in this game means it has to be used from far away, at that point it's not too difficult to avoid, but perhaps again my opponent is just simply not as good. (We are both still learning)
Sonic seems very good to, in fact he's probably top tier, I'm 90% sure he's at least High Tier in this game, the fact that he can link almost anything off his Side-B to N-Air or B-Air means easy kills and he's very hard to actually hit on certain stages in fact any because of his speed and how good his mobility is. His recovery is also pretty good in terms of actually getting back to the stage and it's mix up.
Lucas seems like a mid tier character in this game, very possible early kills with charged smashes, but his Down B isn't as useful as it used to be, and his Side-B isn't anywhere near as good as it was in Brawl. I like the ability to hit with tether now and I'm pretty sure the grab range has been extended now to actually be worthy of a tether recovery.
Also not sure if this has been discovered, but if you crouch cancel a dash on the ledge and spin the stick in the other direction, your character will instantly grab the ledge, this way you don't need to wavedash backwards to the ledge or jump back. Works almost exactly the same as in Brawl's ledgegrab except this time you have to spin the stick and you have to have a running start so you're not in the initial animation of dashing. Very useful technique.
Only played this for about a week so far, so I'm still testing stuff out and seeing how it is. Really fun though and I actually like it more than Brawl!
`dazrin
Smash Champion
IMO I really don't think bowser/ganon/sonic are as good as you say they are. All three of these characters have huge weaknesses that can be easily exploited. Not to say they are *bad* characters. Just not in the slightest OP. Projectiles **** all three of those characters, and they all are very easily comboable/ succumb to pressure.
But, those are just your initial thoughts on the game and just your opinions, so whatever lmao its not a big deal in the end
I would suggest giving more time with the game before sticking with those first impressions (and playing against good players in your community while you're at it!)
BTW. Learned and tried out T-Bombing in matches today. My initial impression on it is that it's extremely situational and most of the time, simply Z-dropping a bomb or just straight up throwing it works just as well. I need way more time to experiment with it's uses though. Also firespiking is much easier for me now after watching your video, Samus-T. Just dair below them and get them to fall into you and bam, firespike. Need to find more guaranteed setups for it though.
Both of them are amazing games (even though P:M isn't even done yet!) I don't think the community will be very far apart if there IS a split. The games transfer over between each other well enough that the melee community can afford to play both games without much split in community. Obviously there will be some people who just want to play P:M, and maybe the odd person or two who will ONLY play melee, but there will be no drastic community splits similar to the brawl vs melee split.
But, those are just your initial thoughts on the game and just your opinions, so whatever lmao its not a big deal in the end
I would suggest giving more time with the game before sticking with those first impressions (and playing against good players in your community while you're at it!)BTW. Learned and tried out T-Bombing in matches today. My initial impression on it is that it's extremely situational and most of the time, simply Z-dropping a bomb or just straight up throwing it works just as well. I need way more time to experiment with it's uses though. Also firespiking is much easier for me now after watching your video, Samus-T. Just dair below them and get them to fall into you and bam, firespike. Need to find more guaranteed setups for it though.
I switch between melee and P:M all the time. It takes me a little while before I get used to each game, but I find both fun. I still think melee is more fun in the sense that it's more fast-paced and the feel is golden, but I love projectM's diversity and how fun the new characters all are. ProjectM is just a breath of fresh air, but melee is still melee at the end of the day
Both of them are amazing games (even though P:M isn't even done yet!) I don't think the community will be very far apart if there IS a split. The games transfer over between each other well enough that the melee community can afford to play both games without much split in community. Obviously there will be some people who just want to play P:M, and maybe the odd person or two who will ONLY play melee, but there will be no drastic community splits similar to the brawl vs melee split.
MonkUnit
Project M Back Roomer
T-Bombing is a neat little trick but it's definitely too situational for any practical use when there are usually better options like Z dropping a bomb / throwing it up. Both of those are faster than having to T-Bomb.
MaxThunder
PM Support
loooool zelda's down-tilt...
I thought the entire purpose of T-bombing was to look cool as ****.
`dazrin
Smash Champion
It's cool, but not very practical. Wayy too slow to set up for something not very effective lol.
Something that's alot more practical, however, is catching and rethrowing shielded bombs.
And AGTing bomb-tosses downward are alot better than regularly throwing bombs downward.
gosssh AGT is so cool
Something that's alot more practical, however, is catching and rethrowing shielded bombs.
And AGTing bomb-tosses downward are alot better than regularly throwing bombs downward.
gosssh AGT is so cool
MaxThunder
PM Support
I should go find zard's jab hitbox soon... that thing gotta look stupid...
xXIke-SamaXx
Smash Lord
I tried the demo and saw some problems with Ike's Aether... first big knockback and it doesn't work is it used to work in brawl where it takes down the target with you....and please make Aether have a bigger horizontal range because the recovery is still a problem in Ike's arsenal...
leffen
Smash Champion
http://www.twitch.tv/kingfunk
Watch here if you wanna see some high level P:M play ;D
I, Armada, King funk and Beat will be playing all day
Watch here if you wanna see some high level P:M play ;D
I, Armada, King funk and Beat will be playing all day
`dazrin
Smash Champion
holy shhhhhh HYPE
Jiangjunizzy
Smash Lord
Posting review thing again guyz: http://tinyurl.com/PMcharacterReview
`dazrin
Smash Champion
Jiang Y U NO post PM review link on thread title
lmao
or even as news on smashmods
lmao
or even as news on smashmods
I havent downloaded anything in awhile XD. My pc has been shot since Febuary and I just got it back and now its in NJ, while Im in NY.
Are you and I playing the same Lucas?
Then again, you think Bowser is OP while Fox is weaker than his Melee incarnation.
`dazrin
Smash Champion
LOL @ down-b not useful
I almost fell for that one.
I almost fell for that one.
GunBlaze
Smash Lord
Stopped reading there.
hotdogturtle
Smash Master
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2007
- Messages
- 3,503
project m has its strong points, but sometimes it can be too hard with attacks like zelda's d-tilt which, without insane DI is hard to get out of and can combo infinitly almost
standardtoaster
Tubacabra
It was purposely made like that to abuse the interpolation system of hitboxes. It had to be done in order to have it have the same effect as melee's dtilt. Magus was the one who did the hitboxes like that. I'm very sure he knew what he was doing.
Magus explains what it looks like in a better way
dettadeus
Smash Lord
He definitely needs other buffs before his recovery gets buffed, although I wouldn't be opposed to having more boosts.
He already has basically the best vertical recovery in the game if you do everything right, and his horizontal is pretty good too.
I feel like his gyro should charge like Sheik's needles, e.g. you have to hold down+b to have it keep charging, but IMO it's at a pretty good speed right now.
Johnknight1
Upward and Forward, Positive and Persistent
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2007
- Messages
- 18,966
- NNID
- Johnknight1
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LOL at Lucario "being a tad weak." Did I miss opposite day or something=???
Could be cool-ish.
A completed Project M certainly doesn't hurt the smash competitive scene. This especially since a completed Project M would mean every character is viable. Which I guess does help attract some new audiences, specifically fans of Brawl and Brawl newcomers (playstyle) who perhaps were alienated by Brawl's... well... Brawliness.
Both of those forthcoming games could be modded to be like Melee, but with more stages, characters, content, and whatnot!
Could be cool-ish.
ah, it makes a lot more sense that way.It was purposely made like that to abuse the interpolation system of hitboxes. It had to be done in order to have it have the same effect as melee's dtilt. Magus was the one who did the hitboxes like that. I'm very sure he knew what he was doing.
Magus explains what it looks like in a better way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGUfT4ZRsuY&list=UU0W-BMZdUvPXrZ-aG9y-chA&index=1&feature=plcp
Minor lag and dropped frames at some parts of the video, but hopefully entertaining all the same enjoy and critique!
Minor lag and dropped frames at some parts of the video, but hopefully entertaining all the same
enjoy and critique!
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
You make Tink's recovery look amazing.
haha thanks but toon links recovery is amazing
everyone was just under the impression that it was bad.
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