Project M Social Thread

[jalued]

Melee Ganon doesn't have renamed bones. Unless it's a model import of Melee ganon. The vertex of Melee ganon doesn't have renamed bones though.

For a Melee falcon model, I think ST and I use scarfless Falcon because it doesn't rename bones, lol.

does the fox one have different bones? They should put a warning on the texture or something

 

[ds22]

The Melee head Fox doesn't have renamed bones.

 

[kaizo13]

could Tyler have gotten this ledgehog on JCz? it looked like if he would have waited a split second longer he would have got hit. Seems like he got robbed from a simple edgehog.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67_dkwrazXc&feature=g-u-u#t=1m58s

is ledge occupancy still a little too low? or is ledge grab range still a tad long?

Actually I realized matches take longer than usual, we played with the same team setup in P:M and matches lasted 3-4 mins.. but when we played Melee the matches lasted 1:30-2 mins, on avg. Not sure I get that, I guess the game is definitely slower.

part of it is recoveries being better than Melee...but yes it also still feels slower

 

[`dazrin]

P:M is definitely slower than melee. I feel it all the time when transitioning between the two. After I play melee alot and switch to P:M, the first couple games feel sooooo slow and I question myself if it's actually P:M that I'm playing lol

1 frame

And kaizo ledge occupancy is kinda short compared to melee. But part of it is also that after Link reaches the peak of his Up-B, he lingers there for a while- similarly to marth.

 

[metroid1117]

It's not that hard to get used to, all you need to do is play a little bit. =P We were playing tons of different matchups. I played mostly Ganon but I tried, Ike, Charizard, Marth, Snake, Zelda. Charizard's float is cute. lol.

While I do feel that PM is a little slower than Melee (IMO it has something to do with sticky teching and the slower momentum change on airdodges), it could also be that you guys are trying out new characters and don't know how the most efficient way to beat your opponent, whereas in Melee you've had the past 10 years to study a character.

Also, I feel like ledge occupancy is a little too short for my taste; I thought Tyler would get that edgehog as well. However, I think he also wasn't being aggressive enough with reverse UAirs; I expected to see at least some attempts, but IIRC he didn't try it at all. I didn't see GF1 yet though, so maybe he tried it there and it didn't work.

@kaizo: You're right, I don't think the 1 frame delay on airdodge momentum is the reason for why matches are so much longer, but it makes it feel noticeably slower IMO.

 

[kaizo13]

And kaizo ledge occupancy is kinda short compared to melee. But part of it is also that after Link reaches the peak of his Up-B, he lingers there for a while- similarly to marth.

yes, i'm aware that L.O was purposely made lower than melee, i'm just questioning if it's where it should be...
but yea it didn't come to mind how Link's up-b lingers now, not sure how i feel about that.

ALSO, you guys need to stop blaming everything on the 1 frame. It's not the only thing keeping the game from feeling closer to Melee (it's just 1 frame guys!)...and its not 1 frame delayed inputs it's momentum that it affects

 

[foshio]

When my brother and I are playing characters we know well our matches are like 2 mins-3 mins (similar to melee). Except if i go ness. those games are like a minute longer

 

[Master WGS]

God, my commentary on those matches is the worst. You're all meanies for saying I should've stayed on and giving me false confidence.

 

[JCaesar]

Nah, you were the best one there after Lafco's smooth jazz commentary and Bandit's auctioneering (and Vist if you're into puns).

 

[Divinokage]

While I do feel that PM is a little slower than Melee (IMO it has something to do with sticky teching and the slower momentum change on airdodges), it could also be that you guys are trying out new characters and don't know how the most efficient way to beat your opponent, whereas in Melee you've had the past 10 years to study a character.

Also, I feel like ledge occupancy is a little too short for my taste; I thought Tyler would get that edgehog as well. However, I think he also wasn't being aggressive enough with reverse UAirs; I expected to see at least some attempts, but IIRC he didn't try it at all. I didn't see GF1 yet though, so maybe he tried it there and it didn't work.

@kaizo: You're right, I don't think the 1 frame delay on airdodge momentum is the reason for why matches are so much longer, but it makes it feel noticeably slower IMO.

That could be it but I mean even doubles matches lasted that long so I find it kinda weird. I can't really say much more than what I've said already so I'll just have to keep playing it... it could because of the stages themselves too.

 

[MonkUnit]

Which stages/matchups lasted the longest?

 

[`dazrin]

I enjoyed bandit's commentary the most, then WGS', and then lafco.

Lafco kinda just goes "OOOHHH THAT <insert move used here>!!" "
WGS has funny puns and clever remarks
Bandit comments on what is happening in the match the most out of everyone and clever puns. The only thing he's missing is hype.

@kaizo: You're right, I don't think the 1 frame delay on airdodge momentum is the reason for why matches are so much longer, but it makes it feel noticeably slower IMO.

It's not just airdodges; it's all physics and movement in general. It definitely adds up and makes the game slower than melee, there is no question about that.

 

[kaizo13]

to whoever said Charizard was weak last page or 2....(lol)

sweetspot fair/ up-b, u-air, sweetspot side-b, f-tilt, d-tilt, bair, fsmash.....tell me when to stop

 

[Divinokage]

Which stages/matchups lasted the longest?

Hard to say, I dont really remember the details.. I was in some type of influence.. lol. But I had fun though, that's what counts right?

 

[T0MMY]

You know you can just wavedash to pick it up, right?

Wavedash =/= Dash Attack (as I explained how an attack in conjunction with a Pickup action is both distinct and beneficial).

The shortened gyro is a huge buff. Sorry if you haven't figured out how to utilize it yet. Play around with it some more. It can not only be picked up quicker, but it's better for stage control, and can be more easily dropped into specific spots like on platforms or edges.

Sir, you have missed the point at hand entirely as though someone has distracted you with taking down their trousers and slapping you in the face with their nether parts.
Either that or you are cunningly trying to infer a position of ignorance on my part and that is to be substantiated with evidence or the assumption will simply be considered a ruse and disregarded. Are you trying to ruse, sir?
Are you not discussing the benefit of distance vs time?
Stage control is exerted through pressure (i.e. damage through an active hitbox given a measured space in a given period), it seems to me that stage control would be negligible, if not exact.

Dash attack not picking up items is a global change, not a ROB-specific one. It's faster and safer to pick it up by WDing over it anyway.

Thank you for clarifying that, do you know if that was done with purposeful programming, and if so why?
My response to another post in regards to utilizing a Wavedash has already been addressed.

By the by, mettling refers to metal working. It was a pun on meddling, i.e. "meddling with one's affairs" by applying a word that refers to metal which is what the Gyro is made of.

 

[ph00tbag]

Another t0mmy post.

Get hype.

 

[hotdogturtle]

That Captain Falcon should have tipped you off when his car was floating all over the place.

 

[ZodiakLucien]

BTW I loved your little smash tutorials about spacing and reading comprehension in melee. Those were very helpful and informative videos and you should consider making more of those and maybe even make some with project:M stuff lol.

I have no plans to make more, I also really don't like the current ones. I think they are incredibly sloppy and barely go in depth with them. Just generally bad. I am surprised how much people like them.

also charizard sucks

 

[Divinokage]

Really?? I liked using the dragon, it was fun though I do have an affinity for large characters.. I didn't have too much trouble vs my friends.

 

[MonkUnit]

Lucien, thank you for the extremely detailed reasons as to why you think Charizard sucks.

 

[GKInfinity]

Charizard does suck though lol

 

[Divinokage]

MM my charizard?

 

[kaizo13]

I gots money on Kage... er, I mean charizard

 

[ZodiakLucien]

Lucien, thank you for the extremely detailed reasons as to why you think Charizard sucks.

no problem, I thought it was a little long winded myself. I actually put all my opinions of the game in a thread on the project M forums: http://www.smashmods.com/forum/thread-4206.html. Some of my opinions have changed a lot since I made that however. For instance I think falco is good now and wolf's laser has some really good uses.

Charizard: Charizard is in competition with snake for the worst character in the game. Unlike snake though Charizard has no direction with his moveset. He is just a big compilation of, “it would be really cool if he does this.”All Charizard right now has is a good dash dance grab game. That’s it. If he grabs you he can just dthrow tech chase you infinitely. Which if that’s all your character can do, he is toxic to the game.

His new fair, makes it so he has no reliable poke in the air, and his tilts are also too slow for him to have any kind of ground poke. He has some good moves for people to fall into, such as his nair and dtilt, but he has nothing to actually bring to the opponent. In brawl it was his fair, but he no longer has that. For characters like marth, ike, toon link, etc that have high priority and dont have to worry about falling into high priority moves charizard gets shut down completely.

He needs to either be given a strong air poke similar to bowser/ganon/ike, or he needs to be a more ground focused heavy hitter. I vote for the latter because it is more interesting and he already has the fast dash speed to do it. To make him more like a heavy samus (in regards to have a strong ground game with tilts and jabs). He would just need a slightly better wavedash, ftilt to be reworked as a much quicker safer poke, charizards jab is already really good, and he needs to have an actual dash attack. Something quick and long range to hit people who want to run back.

His recovery is also really bad. For how heavy he is his jumps dont send him anywhere, and his glide goes at 2 mph. This is another area he could use a little love on.

Also his flamethrower doesn’t add anything to his kit and is just a direct rip off of bowser. It would be better to just give him another move that he had in pokemon, even giving him his rock smash back would be more interesting. This is also another good oppurtunity to get him something that helps his ground game. Like gust or windslash projectile, or dragon claw for a ground poke thats in between tilt and smash strength. Give it a cool property like damage shields a lot or pull the person inwards a little bit and you have a more interesting skillset.

Kage was that directed at me? I don't think we could even set that up anyway. Plus I would feel bad taking your money

 

[Divinokage]

It's directed at anyone who wants to MM and also I cannot be defeated in P:M. There's no way!

 

[JCaesar]

I'll MM you Kage. You going to FC?

 

[foshio]

Armada just won the European tourni... He is consistently the best... no big deal. Won with Pit for those who didn't see

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I have no plans to make more, I also really don't like the current ones. I think they are incredibly sloppy and barely go in depth with them. Just generally bad. I am surprised how much people like them.

also charizard sucks

People like them because you introduce people to the ideas. There really isn't anything else designed to introduce people to spacing and reads. While they don't go in depth, they're a decent start.

 

[Armada]

Armada just won the European tourni... He is consistently the best... no big deal. Won with Pit for those who didn't see

I guess it's just a matter of time before Pit will be considered top tier.
I give it 24h!

=)

 

[Divinokage]

I'll MM you Kage. You going to FC?

Ya I will go to FC.

I guess it's just a matter of time before Pit will be considered top tier.
I give it 24h!

=)

MM in P:M? Ganon will be your doom!

 

[Archangel]

Ganon vs Pit on YS is 90-10

@ Armada GGs bro

Anyone who wants to see the full event go here: http://www.twitch.tv/kingfunk/b/322198417

tourney starts about 2 hours in.

 

[Armada]

Kage: Yeah why not. Can do it at Apex 2013 I guess if I don't get a GPF for FC.
Pit is fun against big chars =)

Archangel: Thanks!

 

[Wolfy!]

Congrats on the win, Armada!

 

[Archangel]

So I was thinking of an Idea for Project M crews at FC

Melee Vets vs Brawl Newcomers?

 

[hotdogturtle]

no problem, I thought it was a little long winded myself. I actually put all my opinions of the game in a thread on the project M forums: http://www.smashmods.com/forum/thread-4206.html. Some of my opinions have changed a lot since I made that however. For instance I think falco is good now and wolf's laser has some really good uses.

And that's why they usually don't like when people make early assumptions based on very little playtime. They know that people will learn how things work and discover the usefulness of certain things that aren't initially clear after longer playtesting.

 

[Archangel]

"The guys who make Project M seem to have a better understanding of Nintendo characters than Nintendo." ~Someone on stream.

 

[JCaesar]

So I was thinking of an Idea for Project M crews at FC

Melee Vets vs Brawl Newcomers?

vs the people who kinda sucked at both and now play Project M exclusively.

*waves*

"The guys who make Project M seem to have a better understanding of Nintendo characters than Nintendo." ~Someone on stream.

The difference is that Nintendo was trying to make a party game, and we're trying to make a competitive game.

 

[Archangel]

vs the people who kinda sucked at both and now play Project M exclusively.

LOOOOOOL Nah I didn't mean in terms of players I meant in terms of the characters.

Characters like Mario, Marth, Falcon, Fox, Falco, Sheik(vets)

vs Lucario, Wolf, Lucas, Wario, Pit....etc

 

[`dazrin]

So I was thinking of an Idea for Project M crews at FC

Melee Vets vs Brawl Newcomers?

Ohh. Just saw your latest post. I was about to type: holy poop melee vets would **** edit: now that I think about it, melee vets would still **** lol

And lmao anyone Armada mains will instantly be S tier. Followed by his secondaries, which will be A tier.

Also I'm almost not surprised that Armada liked Pit when he tried him. Figures that he would pick the character with the infinite horizontal recovery, great edge guarding and the spammy projectile. It's almost like he took both Peach and Young Link, mated them together and started maining their offspring: Pit. You get the spammy projectile and the problems killing people at high % of young link, and the recovery/float and offstage game of peach. Amazing.

And yeah, I agree with Lucien, Charizard isn't that good.. He's not as bad as I actually initially thought, but still light-years away from competing for best character in the game. -Which I honestly don't think Toon Link is. Spacies + Sheik/Zelda are much better imo. Toon Link's really solid, though no one seems to place well with him in tournies..

 

[Archangel]

lol it would be a fun crew battle and it would give us a peak at how well the new characters stack up against the vets.

As for Pit I do get sort of a peach feel from him. Oddly enough I think my Peach has improved since I started playing pit.....odd? Toon Link is really good but still has some limitations. Even if you master his Bomb recovery and AGT recovery it's helps but there are so many people who can just interrupt it and get the kill anyway.