Project M Social Thread

[jahkzheng]

Edit: Does anyone know how to edit the final smash effect file colors? Its a weird file type.

Hmm...
Just a little private project you're doing on your own, or is the PM team actually looking at final smashes? Would be interesting...






Edit:
I'd guess the former however...
*shrugs*...but hope for the latter

 

[Rikana]

Probably something to do with Lucario's aura?

 

[MonkUnit]

Lucario's aura. Were not touching FS's.

 

[jahkzheng]

Probably something to do with Lucario's aura?

Yeah... I suppose that's a possibility...

^ *very limited coding knowledge and thus ignorant as to whether that's even related*



Edit:

Lucario's aura. Were not touching FS's.

As I thought - I believe that was in fact stated early on and I just forgot.
However, does it seem like something that might be played around with once every other important thing is taken care of?
I mean, I doubt you'll remove items completely from your mod... and they should at least not be all glitchy...
But Idk... maybe you'll just pretend Final Smashes don't exist. *shrugs*

 

[leelue]

lol same. Wtf final smashes

 

[jahkzheng]

lol same. Wtf final smashes

You never know. I know FS salvaging has been considered in the past with many other mods. I'll admit that it seems far from PM's style - unless they discovered a really nice system. But it also doesn't seem very professional to leave a bunch of holes in a project like this. At least find away to remove those things that you don't plan on using, like with tourney mode and SSE, if you don't plan on trying to replace them first.

It really doesn't matter to me to be perfectly honest, but I am curious. I think that trying to work with these existing aspects would be a good opportunity to flex some creative muscle - obviously after the truly relevant stuff is done. And if that didn't work out or if none of the mods or even fans where interested in tying to get these things to work, then they could be completely removed. Would seem more professional that way, to me at least. Just some thoughts.

 

[Evilagram]

Hey, maybe we could try thinking up a fair way for final smashes to get added into matches with no items?

 

[jahkzheng]

Hey, maybe we could try thinking up a fair way for final smashes to get added into matches with no items?

They should be able to be turned off or on in any case...
But before adding them in that manner would be even considered, they would need to be as fair and balanced as possible in their implementation and effect. Perhaps every character could just have a "power mode" where all their moves would be buffed and they were more mobile - kinda like Warioman - but nothing special like a landmaster or getting huge, lol. However, that kinda sounds boring to me and too much trouble. The overwhelming reality is that there's a much, much, greater chance that they'll just try to remove the item/effect alltogether. However, it would be cool if they or anyone at least tried (like I've said) after all the other truly important stuff was done.

 

[Archangel]

just wondering at this point can we assume it's going to be awhile before the next patch comes out or can we assume it's not too far away? If it's gonna be awhile I can wait i'm just gonna stop playing for now and focus on melee so I'll be use to the physics.

 

[shanus]

No, i just wanted to make his aura hands stay all hues of blue instead of rainbow.

 

[shanus]

Is it a REFT file??

What do the first 4 bytes say?

Maybe Tcll can help, as he did the following:

Yeah it's a REFT file. Eternal Yoshi - could you reach out to him for me?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

MonkUnit: what I'm saying is while it is true that other smash characters have gimmicks, none are so thoroughly pervasive as this one. ZSS has stuns on two moves. Link has three projectiles as specials. Fox and Falco have shine, and spacies in particular are Smash shoto. Peach has can float in the air. Pit can fly. Some characters' gimmick is that they don't have any; Captain Falcon is a great example, built of high speed, strong combo moves and a few great finishers.

Lucario's normals cancel into his specials, which permeates throughout the character and completely ignores normal game mechanics, as opposed to being on one or two moves or even being a unique mechanic. Lucario is jus really fast and connects moves together faster than other characters, which is almost not a gimmick at all but simply a really huge advantage. Lucario is a meta. A cool meta, but a meta nonetheless. It's a little air fireball from Akuma's original moveset. Yeah, it was just a move, but no one else had anything like it, so the other characters weren't really built to defend against it and as a result it was never balanced until recent generations. It's cool but the game isn't really built to support it.

I don't think you should completely scrap the idea, but it might be better off as a special in another incarnation. Subtlety.

I'm not even sure why I bother to post this stuff since the P:M team is really good about sticking to their guns and doesn't often listen to normies like me. :D

 

[shanus]

MonkUnit: what I'm saying is while it is true that other smash characters have gimmicks, none are so thoroughly pervasive as this one. ZSS has stuns on two moves. Link has three projectiles as specials. Fox and Falco have shine, and spacies in particular are Smash shoto. Peach has can float in the air. Pit can fly. Some characters' gimmick is that they don't have any; Captain Falcon is a great example, built of high speed, strong combo moves and a few great finishers.

Lucario's normals cancel into his specials, which permeates throughout the character and completely ignores normal game mechanics, as opposed to being on one or two moves or even being a unique mechanic. Lucario is jus really fast and connects moves together faster than other characters, which is almost not a gimmick at all but simply a really huge advantage. Lucario is a meta. A cool meta, but a meta nonetheless. It's a little air fireball from Akuma's original moveset. Yeah, it was just a move, but no one else had anything like it, so the other characters weren't really built to defend against it and as a result it was never balanced until recent generations. It's cool but the game isn't really built to support it.

I don't think you should completely scrap the idea, but it might be better off as a special in another incarnation. Subtlety.

I'm not even sure why I bother to post this stuff since the P:M team is really good about sticking to their guns and doesn't often listen to normies like me. :D

Considering every peach uses Float Cancels as pretty much the entirety of her air game, I wouldn't call it subtle.

Lucario's mechanic is simple to describe. On-hit, he cancel into a stronger attack. This is built to flow with the combo-y structure to his metagame in brawl, and plays extremely well. While it sounds like it affords a crazy adventure, his low damage output and low knockback afford low shieldstun, and his "key" combo starters lack range, making it sometimes more difficult to begin a long string. While yes, this defines his metagame for him, I don't see how this character design is flawed. Certain characters are subtle, others are not (see: olimar, peach as examples).

Refinements will happen, but we'll mostly be "sticking to our guns" on this will.

 

[leelue]

@ model
Not often, but with enough voices sometimes it gets through. I personally don't mind the mechanic from what I saw (which wasn't a lot considering what he admitted to being relatively low skill). However, I've led a few minor crusades around here in the last couple of months and Sometimes you win a battle. Sometimes they get it right another way. If it isn't something trivial then it is worth at least bringing up.

But like I said, I don't mind procaryu

 

[Onomanic]

I agree with Model. As soon as I saw Procario, all I could think of was trying to defend against him. Frankly, he seems daunting. Any of the larger cast members are going to have an incredibly one sided match up against Lucario.

Time will tell I suppose.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Bowser's heavy armour.

Donkey Kong and Dedede's spacing game.

etc...

Heavy characters have tools to not get ***** by combo-based characters now.

 

[Browny]

those last two arent changed by project M?

and he comboed them fine in vanilla, so... lol

 

[shanus]

@ model
Not often, but with enough voices sometimes it gets through. I personally don't mind the mechanic from what I saw (which wasn't a lot considering what he admitted to being relatively low skill). However, I've led a few minor crusades around here in the last couple of months and Sometimes you win a battle. Sometimes they get it right another way. If it isn't something trivial then it is worth at least bringing up.

But like I said, I don't mind procaryu

Actually you've posted great feedback on smashmods, and a majority of it has been directly copy pasted into the BR. Please, continue to do so.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

those last two arent changed by project M?

and he comboed them fine in vanilla, so... lol

They aren't new to PM, but they will most likely be buffed.

 

[shanus]

We definitely have been focusing a lot on heavies lately. I wouldn't worry too much about lucario, we also havne't "meleefied" his hitboxes yet (his fsmash has a 19 x-offset which is just absurd) as an example.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

So, for Dedede.

Are you guys making Down-B usable, or scrapping it for a new special?

I'm also really hoping Dedede ends up a little deeper than his Brawl incarnation, but not too much, part of Dedede is not being an incredibly complex character.

 

[CORY]

what's that mean in english? legitimately curious....

 

[UltiMario]

I'm no PSA wizard, but I believe the 19 x-offset is horizontal range, and that's a lot of range.

 

[shanus]

This should explain it well, lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZghDI-AcKJc&t=1m44s

Also, that outermost box is the STRONGEST one of his hitboxes, lol.

 

[Ecks]

Ok really, what's up with brawl and ******** hitboxes. That fsmash range is just insane.

 

[leelue]

Actually you've posted great feedback on smashmods, and a majority of it has been directly copy pasted into the BR. Please, continue to do so.

Well I'll be. That just made my day.

I would apply to the back room so I could contribute more, but not only do I not know how, I definitely lack credentials. Very few players know me (I doubt m2k would remember me even though we hung out all weekend, but d1 and g$ might). Also, even though I've had an account for like 6 years it was P:M that made me so hyperactive on the boards.
Like, I'd have to be let in based solely on my ability to theorize and problem solve (when I can upload ganon vids then at least I'll prove that I'm good at actually playing the game too.) It sucks only because I honestly think I could be a valuable asset to the team, though you guys seem to have a capable enough group.
C'est la vie

 

[Ghostbone]

This should explain it well, lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZghDI-AcKJc&t=1m44s

Also, that outermost box is the STRONGEST one of his hitboxes, lol.

Because that's so bad compared to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPAJYiq__s0#t=2m7s
>.>

I should mention that the outermost part is the STRONGEST part

 

[shanus]

@ Leelue
People don't necessarily need to have insane credentials as much as it needs to be good, but reasonable creativity. Additionally, we like players who provide feedback who can also do some form of physical contribution (either PSA or animation), but it isn't a requirement.

For example, jiang isn't some widely known melee pro, but he makes amazing contributions to character design and animation (see snake, bowser, a lot of lucario) as examples.

@ghostbone - Add in OHCs to melee marth and then we have ourselves an analogy!

 

[Ghostbone]

@ghostbone - Add in OHCs to melee marth and then we have ourselves an analogy!

Fair point, it's just that the massive range isn't something that's unique to Brawl or anything.

 

[shanus]

Fair point, it's just that the massive range isn't something that's unique to Brawl or anything.

I think more on point is that its a trend that hitboxes in brawl are generally sloppier. On average, hitbox sizes in brawl are larger, more often less tied to the appropriate bone and have higher offsets than in melee.

JCaesar can comment on this better, but I think on average we need to shrink hitboxes around 88% of their brawl size to match melee.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Lucario's brawl hitboxes make sense, though. Aura extending his range and all.

His Brawl hitboxes would be broken with the OHC system, though.

Also I"d expect them to have higher offsets, what with the models being bigger and all.

 

[shanus]

Lucario's brawl hitboxes make sense, though. Aura extending his range and all.

His Brawl hitboxes would be broken with the OHC system, though.

Also I"d expect them to have higher offsets, what with the models being bigger and all.

Model sizes aren't a perfect excuse for that though, because a lot of this is beyond relative scale. Remember, a lot of these are tied to bones, so offsets don't need to be increased substantially.

We take cuts for offset, model size, hitbox size, etc.

 

[leelue]

@ shanus
hmmm.... worth a shot. I really want to contribute, in case that isn't quite clear.
What should I do? (to apply)

Also, I could most certainly learn just about any additional skills you guys would be looking for. animations may take a while depending on complexity, but helping is helping and that's exactly what I want to do.

(cough olimar side project with my massive amounts of free time cough)

 

[shanus]

@ shanus
hmmm.... worth a shot. I really want to contribute.
What should I do? (to apply)

Also, I could most certainly learn just about any additional skills you guys would be looking for. animations may take a while depending on complexity, but helping is helping and that's exactly what I want to do.

Hell, if anything I could do what I've been doing, plus more on other characters, and see if I can make olimar a project of mine since he's untouched. Maybe make some headway. If the melee gods see fit, of course.

Apps go here: http://www.smashmods.com/forum/forum-91.html

 

[leelue]

And off I go. wish me luck, and thanks for the encouragement

 

[Ulevo]

But describing Lucario's range as "insane" by itself is leaving out the bigger picture. It isn't the range that makes it good; it's the the damage %, knock back, recovery, start up, range, and properties of the hit box all together.

Lucario's forward smash has good range, yeah. But the start up time takes ages, and the sour spot directly in front of him is easy to abuse. With disadvantages like those, it has to have some kind of reward.

 

[shanus]

But describing Lucario's range as "insane" by itself is leaving out the bigger picture. It isn't the range that makes it good; it's the the damage %, knock back, recovery, start up, range, and properties of the hit box all together.

Lucario's forward smash has good range, yeah. But the start up time takes ages, and the sour spot directly in front of him is easy to abuse. With disadvantages like those, it has to have some kind of reward.

It was more meant to be an example of that we need to clean up his hitboxes. Remember that things like start-up etc need an entire different context when you can set-up into it under certain examples from say dtilt, ftilt, or utilt.

 

[BinAly]

Lucario's forward smash has good range, yeah. But the start up time takes ages, and the sour spot directly in front of him is easy to abuse. With disadvantages like those, it has to have some kind of reward.

I'm sure the devs have much more experience with the new Lucario than us, we can't say if the new mechanics make the range too strong or not.

 

[JCaesar]

I'd say on average, taking into account the larger model sizes, Brawl hitboxes are 10-20% larger relative to their Melee counterparts. Since we're giving Melee characters back their Melee hitboxes as closely as we can, we obviously have to shrink Brawl characters' hitboxes to keep them in line, or else they'd all have uber priority (priority being hitbox placement relative to hurtbox placement, aka disjointedness) compared to Melee characters.

 

[Ecks]

I didn't take into account his aura range when I said it was insane, but it's still a lot. The only brawl character s I really know "well" are Ike and Wolf and maybe MK so I can't say anymore without sounding like a noob. :/

And about Lucario's Down-b, does it work differently or something? I can imagine easily dodging the counter with melee speed. lol countering a counter.