Project M Social Thread

[Onomanic]

Why was lag added to Link's onstage zair? I realize it was like that in Melee but it's become a big game changer in Brawl and helps with his spacing. Is it to balance out the buffed rang/bombs/arrows? I try approaching or spacing with it and the stun is too little to be called useful.

 

[standardtoaster]

In melee, you had 30 frames of landing lag from zair. In brawl, you had iirc 0 frames of landing lag from zair. In Project M, you have 10 frames of landing lag from zair.

 

[PurDi]

Tethers are much worse than Falco recovery. People underrate Falcos recovery. He isn't Roy or Ness (god damn this recovery's terrible).

But is Ivy good on stage? I know ZSS is but what about Ivy?

I'm sure Ivy's recovery will still suck, but just wanted to point out that ZSS has a great recovery. Utilize boost jumping (jumping then upb really quickly) , her down b 'footstool' and walljump, and she can recover from almost anywhere with plenty of options to help her out. Unless some of these are taken out, you can mix it up enough to have a better than average recovery.

 

[ETWIST51294]

do you not remember B+ Ivy? o_O

she can be very deadly onstage

I'm not super familiar with B+...

I dabbled but thats about it.

 

[kaizo13]

@blu link,

he already has arrows/rang/bombs for spacing and Zair still has its use (10 frames of lag on zair is quite generous)

anything under 10 frames and people will rely on the move too much *cough vBrawl*

 

[RAAR]

So i've been playing the project M demo for a while now. this is actually my first post in a while. I have a bunch of complaints about snake because he was my main but i don't think ill share them all. I will say that an actuall Grenade explodes in 3.5 seconds and in the Brawl it was the same. The fact that it explodes faster is comepletly rediculous. Part of the fun with snake was cooking the grenade
and tossing it with perfect timming resulting in a glorious KO.
As for the rest of my gripes its just a matter of relearning the character a bit which i have no problem with. ( I have this bad from brawl of standing on my mine for a second to see how my opponent responds. like just half a second to see if i can sheild grab the guy onto it. I can't tell you how many times i got exploded by my own mine because of that lawl)
I do like the fact that i only have on grenade because it forces me to play a little faster
which i like. But the abbility to use a grenade as a 3rd trap is gone and maybe its for the better
but im just one guy so what do i know.
Lucas is an absolute beast! replacing his pk fire with PK freeze was a stroke of Genious.
i don't really understand his standard B move tho... if someone could explain that to me
id appreciate it..
I love how you guys actually considered combos when designing the characters. its not just accidental
like it was in meele. Like how sonic can Forward throw and go into his fair almost ever time.
Game and whatch wasn't that great in meele so im curious as to why he now plays exactly like his meele
counterpart and nothing like he did in brawl. Mostly his up B parachute being gone is what confounds me
since the overall goal is to make characters more competitive and better.
Ganon is back! Thank you! he was my second main in meele. he doesn't un like he has a stick in his ***
anymore.
Oh yea and Falco is back! EPIC. l've been with that guy for the past decade im glad to see him back full force lol.

As for characters i havn't played yet: i've always felt bowser deserved a spike or at minimum a meteor
smash. Double Fairing into a spike whould be awesome with bowser. Lucario needs to be faster not just
his running speed but every move he has is so floaty and laggy ugh. Toon link is just kind of campy and weird. Maybe if he was little less floaty that'd be cool. If you could keep his spike with out him having to force fall that would be epic.
I don't know. maybe i have to much to say for just one post. I could probably PM one of you 3 pages of tweeks ild like to see but i doubt you'll care that much lol. So I'll stick around, keep playing and jump in the
disscussions now and then. I just want to say what you guys are doing is really ground breaking. The fact
that you could mod a console game to this extend without requiring a hacked wii is just amazing (not to mention meele is my favorite game and im happy with what you've done so far. It's not exactly like meele but i don't think that's what your going for. After all is said and done this is what brawl should have been. Your skills you aquired in meele carry over but there are various tweeks that you need to get used to. thanks a lot for what your doing. It's like you took brawl and made it snort a bunch of crack. well done lol.

 

[Msingh0]

This is LEGENDARY

Also, RAAR, lucas's neutral B is actually an offensive power up, and when you use a smash attack all of the power is released.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Two words.

Spell

Check

 

[leelue]

if snake's grenades didn't explode quickly they wouldn't be anything resembling a useful projectile.

Game and watch has a shield, better aerials, and acting out of upb>melee distance. Keeping the brawl down throw was obviously good. The Bacon is infinitely better as well.

Side note
three fireballs = insane oil panic

 

[MonkUnit]

RAAR, feel free to PM me, strong bad, standardtoaster, or one of the other PMBR members with those 3 pages of tweaks.

Also, regarding Lucas's neutral B. That is "Offense Up", it makes your next smash attack 1.5x powerful. It also has increase range and GFX to match.

 

[ClinkStryphart]

So i've been playing the project M demo for a while now. this is actually my first post in a while. I have a bunch of complaints about snake because he was my main but i don't think ill share them all. I will say that an actuall Grenade explodes in 3.5 seconds and in the Brawl it was the same. The fact that it explodes faster is comepletly rediculous. Part of the fun with snake was cooking the grenade and tossing it with perfect timming resulting in a glorious KO.

As for the rest of my gripes its just a matter of relearning the character a bit which i have no problem with. ( I have this bad from brawl of standing on my mine for a second to see how my opponent responds. like just half a second to see if i can sheild grab the guy onto it. I can't tell you how many times i got exploded by my own mine because of that lawl)
I do like the fact that i only have on grenade because it forces me to play a little faster
which i like. But the abbility to use a grenade as a 3rd trap is gone and maybe its for the better
but im just one guy so what do i know.

Lucas is an absolute beast! replacing his pk fire with PK freeze was a stroke of Genious.
i don't really understand his standard B move tho... if someone could explain that to me
id appreciate it..
I love how you guys actually considered combos when designing the characters. its not just accidental like it was in melee. Like how sonic can Forward throw and go into his fair almost ever time.

Game and whatch wasn't that great in meele so im curious as to why he now plays exactly like his meele
counterpart and nothing like he did in brawl. Mostly his up B parachute being gone is what confused me since the overall goal is to make characters more competitive and better.

Ganon is back! Thank you! he was my second main in meele. he doesn't run like he has a stick in his ***anymore.

Oh yea and Falco is back! EPIC. l've been with that guy for the past decade im glad to see him back full force lol.

As for characters i havn't played yet: i've always felt bowser deserved a spike or at minimum a meteor smash. Double Fairing into a spike whould be awesome with bowser. Lucario needs to be faster not just his running speed but every move he has is so floaty and laggy ugh.

Toon link is just kind of campy and weird. Maybe if he was little less floaty that'd be cool. If you could keep his spike with out him having to force fall that would be epic.
I don't know.

maybe i have to much to say for just one post. I could probably PM one of you 3 pages of tweeks ild like to see but i doubt you'll care that much lol. So I'll stick around, keep playing and jump in the disscussions now and then. I just want to say what you guys are doing is really ground breaking. The fact that you could mod a console game to this extend without requiring a hacked wii is just amazing (not to mention meele is my favorite game and im happy with what you've done so far. It's not exactly like meele but i don't think that's what your going for. After all is said and done this is what brawl should have been. Your skills you aquired in meele carry over but there are various tweeks that you need to get used to. thanks a lot for what your doing. It's like you took brawl and made it snort a bunch of crack. well done lol.

Edit Fixed - to be easier to read. Wall of text no thanks. And it seems that you have the Backroom Version or an out of date version of alpha. Hence TL Lucario and bowser (Koopa) are not in the Official Demo.

Lucas is amazing though its a bit hard to get used to him having DJC but it makes all the worth while better. Also another thing thats taken me time to get used to is fixed size of hitboxes so far that are in the demo especially Lucas. (still so used to playing him in B+) lol.

 

[Sneak8288]

lol how smart would it be to try to sit there and cook a grenade for 3.5 seconds when ur only gonna get shl into some **** combo from falco.. it just wouldn't fit in the setting at all for snakes explosives to not be as fast as they are. snake would just get ***** even harder

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

What Sneak said.

Also, diving under platforms to grab and throw shield dropped nades to blow up someone above you is fun.

 

[GP&B]

Toon link is just kind of campy and weird. Maybe if he was little less floaty that'd be cool. If you could keep his spike with out him having to force fall that would be epic.
I don't know.

You're either playing an extremely ancient leak or you're using a full CSS code without actually changing anything or using his B+ file. The physics and Dair were changed a long time ago. Unless you're a playtester, please don't discuss characters not in the demo as far as how your experience was with them.

 

[MonkUnit]

He is not in the PMBR.

 

[Xinc]

BUSTED. Even though it wasn't smart to say that stuff anyway. XP

Why do I have this horrible feeling the moment P:M on whole comes out, I'm going to get ***** up the butt by Peach??

 

[ETWIST51294]

You play marth? You don't have to worry about that. LOL

 

[Strong Badam]

RAAR, feel free to PM me, strong bad, standardtoaster, or one of the other PMBR members with those 3 pages of tweaks.

Do not ever do this again, MonkUnit. I don't want a butchering of the English language in my inbox.

 

[Xinc]

You play marth? You don't have to worry about that. LOL

Also Falco. I hope peach's Bair doesn't have godly priority. DX

But Marth should be able to keep her in check.

Do not ever do this again, MonkUnit. I don't want a butchering of the English language in my inbox.

O__________o;; Xinc is most confused.

 

[leelue]

I don't think raar had a leak. it sounded like he was talking about brawl.

 

[Krautrock]

Yeah, he said he was talking about characters he hadn't played. Because they're not in the demo.

 

[Xinc]

I'm taking it that the PM ppl have pokemerge as their icons?

 

[GP&B]

leelue ain't no PMBRoomer.

 

[Xinc]

derp. my bad.

 

[Ecks]

Nah the change is recent. In the chat, standardtoaster one told me that my avatar made him think I was a Link main at first, so I changed my avatar as a joke to put Falco.

Oh, thought I was going blind there >_>

Yo guys what's been done to ness's recovery? I swear sakurai really ****ed up with that move. I've never seen a thunder like that, and why would you hit yourself with your own attack?

 

[toasty]

haven't had a chance to read through this but I just wanted to say:

omfg I love Lucas.

I love the changes.

Whoever thought of being able to jumpcancel the cooldown from downB is a genius. That, in addition to the already-awesome ropesnake [which, when used in conjunction with the Melee airdodge system, is ****ing awweeesomeeee], makes recovering with Lucas not so scary, even after aggressive edgeguards.

Tip for would-be Lucas players when below/away from the stage:

Reverse DownB, jumpcancel the lag, airdodge up and ropesnake

you'll find that you hardly use upB for recovery =D

 

[leelue]

@dominator
I'm working on it. Building credentials takes forever.

 

[OverLade]

Bi-Winning confirmed for PM.

 

[Sterowent]

it's like sakurai thought to himself, "well, he's a full game ahead of ness. we should patch up what i did wrong."

and then ness was left alone.

 

[ValTroX]

in the latest of JC's videos, look at how Mario grabs air and still has Bowser on his hands:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd1yMybqNQA&feature=feedu
Anything you guys can do about that? it just doesn't look right at 0:37

 

[Anth0ny]

woah woah woah woah woah woah

woah

THEY FIXED DI?!?

I love you guys.

 

[kaizo13]

Valtrox i may be wrong but......it's been like that since vBrawl? (haven't played vBrawl in ages)

 

[Pen_island]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd1yMybqNQA&feature=feedu

At 3:37 did I just see a grab from behind? iirc that was another thing you guys were trying to implement. If so then good job lol

 

[leelue]

edit: wow I already wrote this.

 

[Starscream]

Fuuuu, hype rising all over again.

 

[AMKalmar]

I mentioned this some time ago but I didn't get a response (as far as I know, I haven't been on in over a week).

- Lucas' backward zap jump is now the same height as his forward zap jump, was this intentional? I liked being able to control how high my zap jump was in vBrawl by combining forward/backward zap jumps with or without a reversal, but I also like that you can get a full height backward zap jump with momentum in pm. Kinda torn on which I prefer though.

- DJC PKF plox. pretty plox. rly... do it. thx

- Full jump dair doesn't really work on people who aren't tall like Ganon. It doesn't even hit shorties. Yeah. I don't know, it's not that bad. Just meh.

- I miss dthrow KOs. They didn't happen often but I liked them. It's k I guess...

- thunderslide is really hard to do now.

- The graphics for the offense-upped smashes are deceiving in size. It looks like the hitboxes would be larger but they're exactly the same size. Trust me, I know. PSA told me. Actually, even the regular dsmash and usmash graphics appear too large.

Spoiler

I'm probably alone on this, but I actually don't like offense-up at all. The charging/smashes/wind-gimp just don't feel like Lucas to me. Don't like it. I would rather have a charge special that is a move on its own like samus/dk/lucario, perhaps a strong pk freeze that actually freezes (proximity?).

- Those little hitboxes on either side of Lucas at the start of utilt. Sometimes they don't hit the opponent far enough to be hit by the strong hitbox. And then I get punched.

- In vbrawl you could spike for the entirety of Lucas' bair, you just had to hit in the right spot. I like that you don't accidentally not-spike with the later frames now, but it annoys me that I often don't spike when it totally feels like I should. Whatevs, I'll get used to it.

- It may appear that I'm just trying to get my character buffed, but I don't actually care whether Lucas is good or bad. I just wanted to say some of these things and I think there's room for improvement in Lucas' design.

- DJC PKF. You can ignore all the other things. I just want this.

- oh yeah, and marth's skinny legs can fit between Lucas' standing grab hitboxes at the right distance. I suggest adding one more hitbox and moving them all closer together so that the space is filled properly.

I made a hitbubble psa for Lucas:m a couple weeks ago. PKF isn't included, couldn't figure out the right hitbox. Anyone want?

 

[Xebenkeck]

Really Late,

but saying link having 10 frames on his zair is generous is so contradictory. With l-canceling in the game how many aerials have less than 10 frames of landing lag? A lot. So why is it a big deal, what is the difference between Marths SHFFL'ing Fairs, and Link spamming zair?

(im not saying it should have zero, just making a point)

 

[Lolo_knight]

Really Late,

but saying link having 10 frames on his zair is generous is so contradictory. With l-canceling in the game how many aerials have less than 10 frames of landing lag? A lot. So why is it a big deal, what is the difference between Marths SHFFL'ing Fairs, and Link spamming zair?

(im not saying it should have zero, just making a point)

Im kinda with you on that.... "we dont want link spamming a move" talk about falco's lasers.... yeah i know I dont want that but thts just me....

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Presumably because if Falco's lasers or Marth's fair were changed, it would be a major turn-off.

But the majority of the audience doesn't care about Link's zair.

 

[CSDragon]

My Question: Will there be Balance Patches?

With this being a downloadable system, like Warcraft or Starcraft, rather then a hard-coded one, like any game disk game, will we see balance patches in the future to fix imbalances in the character roster and make more characters competitively viable.

One of my biggest gripes with melee was it's considerable imbalances with high speed characters (I am so looking at you Shine Combos), and while vBrawl still had a lot of these problems, it did fix some, while adding others (Meta Knight, Sanke), Brawl+ fixed many of these new ones, even if it was still far from perfect, but it feels like switching from Brawl+ to Project M will bring back all these old imbalances, and even add new ones such as Diddy (who is already top tier), and Sonic (who gets a huge boost from Melee style gaming), which I personally do not want.

So will this project actively work to fix these issues with characters and the metagame as they arise?



TL;DR: Will we in the future see balance patches that will remove S, E, F and Gannon Tiers and make more characters competitively viable