Project M Social Thread

[Dark Sonic]

he already has both of those <_<

 

[GHNeko]

@iym

lol gg

 

[IYM!]

he already has both of those <_<

Realy?

i saw some Mario matches, and his recovery isnt diferent for me,

 

[Sneak8288]

Realy?

i saw some Mario matches, and his recovery isnt diferent for me,

must not have been PM then lol

 

[ajajayjay]

mario's recovery actually feels better than melee. And when talking about improvements to characters, everyone pretty much jumps to recovery; imo, edgeguarding is one of the most interesting things that sets smash apart from many other games of similar nature, and if everyone has a kick-*** recovery, it kinda nullifies that.

 

[IYM!]

well. if he dont have a good recovery in P:M, would be nice if P:M team could fix that.

Mario's recovery is good, but isnt enought to compensate his poor range and slow kill moves.

i feel than Mario isnt in a top tier level, after all one of the goals of P:M is balance the roster at the top characters.

again this is a sugerence, i dont want start a discusion about it.

 

[GHNeko]

well. if he dont have a good recovery in P:M, would be nice if P:M team could fix that.

Mario's recovery is good, but isnt enought to compensate his poor range and slow kill moves.

i feel than Mario isnt in a top tier level, after all one of the goals of P:M is balance the roster at the top characters.

again this is a sugerence, i dont want start a discusion about it.

1. he has a decent recovery. nado distance is pretty good lol.
and the current iteration of wall jump + snapping side b makes his recovery better.

2. mario's kill moves are not slow LOLLLLL. his slowest kill move is fsmash and that's easily combo'd into/used as hard read punisher. Usmash, Dsmash, Nair, Fair. All come out fairly quick.

 

[ajajayjay]

I think the P:M team did fix that, when they made the tornado much more beneficial in terms of recovery and made the up-b-->wall jump infinitely easier to do. And i think the reason everyone is complaining that said used-to-be-low tier character doesn't stand up to fox/falco/sheik/marth/puff is becuase those five characters were played so much in melee that they are down to a science; they were completely figured out, and everyone basically knew what to do in any situation with them because they were so familiar with them. I don't think anyone yet knows how to play these low tiers like zelda and g&w to their full extent.

and even if i'm wrong, sometimes worse characters are more fun. something about beating a friend with bowser or pichu or some **** is way more fun/rewarding.

 

[Revven]

Dsmash comes out on frame 5, the same frame that Metaknight's down smash comes out on, if that's not a quick KO move I don't know what is.

 

[C_Ferris32]

Dsmash comes out on frame 5, the same frame that Metaknight's down smash comes out on, if that's not a quick KO move I don't know what is.

This.

10This's.

 

[Starscream]

Lol this thread kills me, i don't understand how most people have never played this game anywhere close to high level and or have explored fully all of the options for multiple situations or even have the creativity to create new techniques and have the nerve to complain about certain moves. Like the ganon arguement lmfao. Obviously shows how bad a certain person using ganon must be at the game because ganon has plenty of tools to kill spacies easily. I wish people will get good and find ways around things instead of crying for change. Snakes side-b is fine also and its super good vs any recovery that comes from below stage. The next time someone wants to post about something needing to be changed or buffed or made better or worse, take a moment and tap into the creative side of your brain and find a use for it or try to find a way around something you can't overcome. Please leave the salt out of your opinion of character development

So much **** in one post. Everyone should just stfu and go play the game.

Realy?

i saw some Mario matches, and his recovery isnt diferent for me,

Stop watching Mario matches, go play some Mario matches.

 

[hotdogturtle]

I have major problems hitting with Mario's meteor in this game... It's almost always the Doc punch whenever I try it.


Not that that's a problem though, considering that the punch kills them in moments when I would otherwise use the meteor just to be flashy. It seems like it's "mainly" the Doc punch with just a little of the meteor tacked onto the end of it.

 

[ajajayjay]

prob because the doc punch is better in pretty much every way. and a move isn't flashy if its easy to do =) so i guess the mario spike is just that much better when you get it

 

[JCaesar]

It seems like it's "mainly" the Doc punch with just a little of the meteor tacked onto the end of it.

That pretty much sums it up, yeah. Doc punch is almost always the best option vs an airborne opponent so we made it the more prominent hit on an airborne opponent. The spike hit is more useful against a grounded opponent so it's easier to land on a grounded opponent.

 

[FrozenHobo]

I feel that i should be doing something here... what, I'm not sure :\

 

[ManEg]

So I was playing against some CPUs today (lvl9 Link is kinda hard lol) and discovered something (again). Don't know if it's known so I would like some confirmation.

Lets say Falco is running to the right and you want to do a illusion/phantasm to the left, you'd have to stop and hit left-b because if you input it while running you go into turn-around animation. So to do an instant side-b to the opposite side while running you have to input the phantasm (for example) to the direction your running (this activates the move) and IMMEDIATELY hit the opposite direction, which causes the change in direction.

Haven't tried this in Melee because of laziness. Is this something the developers purposely added or a bug or something?

 

[MK26]

always been in brawl

 

[Spoon~]

I feel that i should be doing something here... what, I'm not sure :\

Playing PM.

 

[Sneak8288]

So I was playing against some CPUs today (lvl9 Link is kinda hard lol) and discovered something (again). Don't know if it's known so I would like some confirmation.

Lets say Falco is running to the right and you want to do a illusion/phantasm to the left, you'd have to stop and hit left-b because if you input it while running you go into turn-around animation. So to do an instant side-b to the opposite side while running you have to input the phantasm (for example) to the direction your running (this activates the move) and IMMEDIATELY hit the opposite direction, which causes the change in direction.

Haven't tried this in Melee because of laziness. Is this something the developers purposely added or a bug or something?

yea if im not mistaken its called wave bouncing or b reversal.. not sure of the term

 

[ManEg]

yea if im not mistaken its called wave bouncing or b reversal.. not sure of the term

Ohh, I didn't know you could do it on the ground, or with side-b's for that matter, the more you know...

 

[IYM!]

Dsmash comes out on frame 5, the same frame that Metaknight's down smash comes out on, if that's not a quick KO move I don't know what is.

WOOW, i didnt know that, when i said "slow kill moves" i was do reference to his Fsmash and Fair.

he is a very good character. but i still think than he need an improvement, maybe his tornado. Give it more Damage and knokback and a better air movility (not so flexible like vBrawl Luigi DownB)

well, i am not a Mario main, so if i am wrong with some things, sorry, i was trying to give ideas

 

[Slashy]

Can you moonwalk -> Fsmash as Sonic?

Why was Lucas' down tilt nerfed?

 

[Master WGS]

Any updates on Diddy Kong in P:M? Any major changes I should brace myself for?

 

[Thunderhorse+]

So I was playing against some CPUs today (lvl9 Link is kinda hard lol) and discovered something (again). Don't know if it's known so I would like some confirmation.

Lets say Falco is running to the right and you want to do a illusion/phantasm to the left, you'd have to stop and hit left-b because if you input it while running you go into turn-around animation. So to do an instant side-b to the opposite side while running you have to input the phantasm (for example) to the direction your running (this activates the move) and IMMEDIATELY hit the opposite direction, which causes the change in direction.

Haven't tried this in Melee because of laziness. Is this something the developers purposely added or a bug or something?

This technique is called waveboucing or b-reversal as Sneak mentioned, but it's not added or a bug, it was in Brawl. It's much more useful in P:M though thanks to momentum carrying over from a jump. I don't recall anyone using wavebouncing on the ground though. I can't imagine it would be useful at all.

Can you moonwalk -> Fsmash as Sonic?

You can, but you won't have any of the carried momentum from the moonwalk; you'd just end up moonwalking then fsmashing while standing in place. The reason moonwalk grabs slide so far is because you can jump out of the moonwalk, carrying the momentum from it, and then JC grab, still preserving the momentum of the original jump.

Anything you can't JC will not slide as far as I'd know. I'd have to try to see if crouching during a moonwalk would work since crouching during run preserves the run momentum.

 

[Slashy]

I meant that I can slide behind an opponent and immediately fsmash when I know it will hit.

 

[Revven]

Why was Lucas' down tilt nerfed?

Not "nerfed", simply not dumb anymore. Dumb in that randomly tripping. Every move in the game has had its tripping rate shot down to 0% until we can fix that random 1% chance that a trip can occur from a move even without any trip rate. A good example of this is Fox's shine, it randomly trips because of that 1% chance we can't seem to fix. If you read the OP, it probably would have been very clear what happened to Lucas' Dtilt.

Any updates on Diddy Kong in P:M? Any major changes I should brace myself for?

Techable naners and... his recovery isn't as good as it is in vBrawl. Really, he fits in so well that there doesn't need to be much changed for him. So we haven't really looked at him in-depth enough yet, though I'm sure some tweaks will be made at some point, we just haven't gotten to him because of this patch we're doing.

Oh I guess I forgot to mention that when he does his Side B kick in the air he can use Up B after it unlike before.

 

[Slashy]

Lucas' down tilt seems much slower, it wasn't about the tripping.

 

[FireBall Stars]

What about Mario's fair? I notice it doesn't always spike anymore...

Also, weird thing - Every so often (usually on 2v2s) it won't let me record replays. It's kinda uncommon, but it happened a few times to my friends and I last night. Question mark?

To do Meteor effect on a grounded enemy you must hit in the maximum range of the Fair.

To Meteor a airborne enemy, you must hit like DK's Fair, at the end of the arc.

Doc's Usmash with vBrawl Mario Usmash range is just incredible, bounces people on the ground, hit anything you want after. It's still quite strong on airborne enemies.

 

[Juushichi]

It's called "B-Reversing", btw and Mario is much better in P:M than in just about any other smash game he appears in. There are so many good options for Mario to take stocks with, it's kind of insane. You really don't need Mario Tornado at all, lol. Walljump recovery out of up-B is so good, lol.

Ala Brawl, you can also stall on the first aerial cape which lets you maneuver yourself a bit more. I love me some Mario M. <3

 

[curry9186]

he is a very good character. but i still think than he need an improvement, maybe his tornado. Give it more Damage and knokback and a better air movility (not so flexible like vBrawl Luigi DownB)

well, i am not a Mario main, so if i am wrong with some things, sorry, i was trying to give ideas

Tornado is a already a good move. With the increased horizontal momentum while airborne, it's actually a decent approach. Only saying decent though.

On the note of Tornado, I was playing a CPU mario and he did tornado while airborne. He covered a bit more than a third of Pirate ship with just that. If I could replicate that myself, it'd make mario's recovery more ridiculous because of how far it went.

 

[FireBall Stars]

You know you can't press B on nearly every frame like a cpu right?

Mario M is extremely good, you can even use the Tornado as an actual move since it doesn't stop your momentum.

It also doesn't allow you to use the tornado before anything else in the recovery and hope to ascend. It's overall harder to make it go up compared to melee, but at least has more horizontal movement that helps even if you can only maintain your height.

Lucas Down Tilt is still useful to force getups as a "jab" reset. Not every character can hope to use a dash cancelled dtilt to that, a well done jab reset will let you to easily landed Offense-Up Smash Attacks.

 

[curry9186]

You know you can't press B on nearly every frame like a cpu right?

Mario M is extremely good, you can even use the Tornado as an actual move since it doesn't stop your momentum.

One can dream.

I use tornado a lot now. It's just an all-around useful move. Honestly one of my favorite changes to mario.

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

Lucas' down tilt seems much slower, it wasn't about the tripping.

Turn on Buffer

 

[Vigilante]

Well, we got to be careful. We can't have all of Mario's moves super. I mean, Luigi must have advantages over Mario. Considering Mario and Luigi were in the same tier, Luigi needs about just as many buffs. (Well, I'm saying it like that, but quantity doesn't matter much. Rather, quality of the buffs). In other words, he needs about as much of an effectiveness boost.

Slightly longer fireball, which has already been considered could up his projectile usefulness, but it's still not his greatest strenght, so it matters little. Luigi has a crazy wavedash, so I guess moves could capitalize on this. I think Luigi tornado should travel a longer distance than Mario's, obviously, and his attacks should probably be made to connect better.

I'm just throwing ideas around. I expect you to do your own thing and pleasantly surprise me anyways.

 

[ajajayjay]

it's too bad basically none of luigi's moves originate from any of the games he's been in. lazy sakurai

 

[Xinc]

Well, we got to be careful. We can't have all of Mario's moves super. I mean, Luigi must have advantages over Mario. Considering Mario and Luigi were in the same tier, Luigi needs about just as many buffs. (Well, I'm saying it like that, but quantity doesn't matter much. Rather, quality of the buffs). In other words, he needs about as much of an effectiveness boost.

Slightly longer fireball, which has already been considered could up his projectile usefulness, but it's still not his greatest strenght, so it matters little. Luigi has a crazy wavedash, so I guess moves could capitalize on this. I think Luigi tornado should travel a longer distance than Mario's, obviously, and his attacks should probably be made to connect better.

I'm just throwing ideas around. I expect you to do your own thing and pleasantly surprise me anyways.

Well, it's a merge between Doc and Mario, so I think that, since Mario should keep some pros over Luigi like Dr. did?

it's too bad basically none of luigi's moves originate from any of the games he's been in. lazy sakurai

His dash attack sure represents his personality.

 

[Kati]

At least Luigi did not get the vacuum cleaner (though I would have liked that more than Fludd).

 

[ajajayjay]

yeah, when i think about it I can't think of anything from his games that would make sense. I wonder why sakurai didn't replace luigi's down b with vacuum cleaner in brawl tho, most obvious parallel to fludd in the world.

The only thing that jumps out is a replacement to his ****ty dash attack, which could be shield grabbed every time even if it connected. If he had a nice dash attack (like marios) it could work well with his good wavedash; like how wavedash --> forward tilt was so useful in melee

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

The thing is....
Unless Luigi can use the Vaccum to suck them in and throw people by spitting them out, I don't see the Vacuum being useful.
It would be like inviting Jiggs to rest on you.

 

[Spoon~]

Luigi's dash attack, the only move more useless than kirby's fireball dash attack lol.