Project M Social Thread

[I R MarF]

There are those, DDD, Ike(borderline), and a secret

Lucario is a fastfaller right?

Spoiler

And Wolf... obviously

And Roy is also a fast faller.

If it isn't one of those Idk who the secret ff is.

 

[shanus]

Eh.
I hate Dantarion now.

I'm going to start working on a proper buffed moveset for Pichu, I'll post it here when it is done and see what you devs think.

Whatever the case, I seriously hope you aren't putting Dant's Pichu in.

you do know dant is trolling, right?

 

[OverLade]

Sarcasm is rather difficult to detect on the internet I'm afraid....

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Sarcasm is rather difficult to detect on the internet I'm afraid....

This.

And with the little respect Pichu gets, it really wouldn't surprise me if he wasn't joking.

 

[frostymm]

I HOPE that's sarcasm xD

EDIT: Oh, and with the whole "Is it Melee or Brawl thing".

If it not designed to completely emulate Melee, just bring back the feel and mechanics of it like a true successor, I don't get why things were changed back to how they were in Melee when the Brawl versions were fine.

THANK YOU. That's the only reason I brought any of this up XD It made me sad to see falco turned back into more of a clone character =/.

Besides that though, I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion or make anyone stop the project -.-' I'm just trying to figure out if I'M going to give it a shot myself... I don't care much for the top tier characters getting their old moves back.... It'd be more interesting if they used their new ones....

 

[shanus]

THANK YOU. That's the only reason I brought any of this up XD It made me sad to see falco turned back into more of a clone character =/.

Besides that though, I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion or make anyone stop the project -.-' I'm just trying to figure out if I'M going to give it a shot myself... I don't care much for the top tier characters getting their old moves back.... It'd be more interesting if they used their new ones....

We make the good melee characters play like melee. Brawl characters are altered to have a melee playstyle.


It's as simple as that. Lucas plays extraordinarly well and is technical and fast, and maintains his playstyle. I don't get your point. If this isn't for you, sorry then, but its what we are doing and what many people enjoy and are hoping for this project. This was built for melee-fans, and is meant to be a bridge from melee to brawl pulling on all the technical capabilities of melee.

Yes, certain melee characteristics have changed (i.e. meteor cancel window), but they are within reason. Weaker characters have been buffed, etc.

It sounds to me like your more a brawl player than a melee player.

 

[frostymm]

We make the good melee characters play like melee. Brawl characters are altered to have a melee playstyle.


It's as simple as that. Lucas plays extraordinarly well and is technical and fast, and maintains his playstyle. I don't get your point. If this isn't for you, sorry then, but its what we are doing and what many people enjoy and are hoping for this project. This was built for melee-fans, and is meant to be a bridge from melee to brawl pulling on all the technical capabilities of melee.

Yes, certain melee characteristics have changed (i.e. meteor cancel window), but they are within reason. Weaker characters have been buffed, etc.

It sounds to me like your more a brawl player than a melee player.

And you would be correct good sir. But I promised a friend (Being a melee-fan) that I'd play P:M with him.... It is very unfortunate for me under these circumstances.... Oh well good luck with the project and all that, I'm really looking forward to the clone engine ^^


EDIT: But from the way you're explaining it it still sounds like a melee clone with added content...

 

[OverLade]

It sounds to me like your more a brawl player than a melee player.

DAAAAMMMNNNN get messed up son.

 

[Stevo]

why would you guys have doubt in Dant?

 

[Archangel]

why would you guys have doubt in Dant?

My thoughts exactly

*back to lurking*

 

[Dark Sonic]

EDIT: But from the way you're explaining it it still sounds like a melee clone with added content...

Uh....I guess changing about 8 characters back to their melee forms makes it a melee clone right? Did people forget that characters below Ganondorf exist?


We changed the top tiers back to melee form because....THEY WERE TOP TIER! They were the DEFINING play style of melee. If you're going to take the "best" parts of characters from melee, then it would stand to reason that the best characters in melee would play the same.


But then there's everyone else. Would melee still be melee if Bowser were a great character? Now add Zelda. Now add Ness. Now add ROY. Now add....every brawl character.

Even with all the melee top tiers and high tiers in tact, they're still outnumbered 3-1 by all the changed or completely revamped characters...and it's a melee clone?



Just sayin' <_<

 

[curry9186]

Haha, top tier bowser. Sooo looking forward to seeing someone destroy face with that gargantuan turtle.

Making top tiers play like their melee counterparts is a good thing. Brawl took those good characters such as fox, sheik, and jiggs and shot them way down. Having them play like melee again is their revamp because that game showed how well they're capable of playing.

 

[Strong Badam]

If it not designed to completely emulate Melee, just bring back the feel and mechanics of it like a true successor, I don't get why things were changed back to how they were in Melee when the Brawl versions were fine.

becaues this statement is entirely subjective, thus we pulled the opinions of the majority of players who use the characters.

 

[Rion]

Speaking of Zelda... did you guys figure out what to do with Zelda's Usmash?

Memories of the fickle B+ Usmash make me convulse every so often.

Glad to see the project's progressing well too! It's funny though, 'cause I'm half expecting to have to go to my nearest video game store to buy this with how much sheer development is going on... seriously, thank you all for all the hard work!

 

[frostymm]

Uh....I guess changing about 8 characters back to their melee forms makes it a melee clone right? Did people forget that characters below Ganondorf exist?


We changed the top tiers back to melee form because....THEY WERE TOP TIER! They were the DEFINING play style of melee. If you're going to take the "best" parts of characters from melee, then it would stand to reason that the best characters in melee would play the same.


But then there's everyone else. Would melee still be melee if Bowser were a great character? Now add Zelda. Now add Ness. Now add ROY. Now add....every brawl character.

Even with all the melee top tiers and high tiers in tact, they're still outnumbered 3-1 by all the changed or completely revamped characters...and it's a melee clone?



Just sayin' <_<

Yes, I'm being told that it's not melee or brawl, right? So it must be somewhere in between... Being Melee.... WITH Brawl content in it. So it is exactly what I said it is XD. You seem to be misunderstanding me, I'm not saying this IS melee.... I'm saying that part of it has become almost EXACTLY like melee. Why give falco shine when fox already has that? Why give JigglyPuff an overpowered back air if you could just power up her other moves and make her overall character play better?

As far as I can see this has three ways of going...

1. Being brawl characters with melee physics and metagame and being something new and creative that doesn't have to be brawl nor melee. (Being exactly how P:M states to be in the OP and what I'm in preference to.)
2. Being Melee.... With extra content from brawl.... (This being what I'm saying that you're doing)
3. Being a straight up Melee clone with everything exactly the same as it was in melee but just ported over to the wii so that it can have all the modding features of brawl. Or just making the old sucky characters better for tourney play...

I know you guys are all in love with melee and it's tiers and all that wonderful stuff -.-' But why not make A NEW tier list. Or rather why not GET RID OF the tier list all-together? You're trying to make all the characters viable right? Trying to make them as BALANCED as possible right? Is the goal of project M to make it so all the old hardcore melee players want to play this over melee so they're trying to not make them hate it? Or are they actually trying to make something new that would bring some old love to a newer version of the game? (Newer not necessarily needing to mean better)

My PERSONAL opinion is to just input melee physics into it and then try to balance it out a bit. Not try so hard to make it a Melee clone that so many people are trying to push but are denying as to what it actually is. The only reason I bring any of this up.... You gave falco back his shine.... Fox already does that... It should be different because this isn't melee and falco isn't a straight up clone anymore.... This is my OPINION, if you don't like it, don't respond to it, don't give me anything more to talk about, and I'll more than likely just stop posting and you can go on your merry way without dealing with me at all. If you DO like it or agree with it, then great, do what you will, it'll still give me less reason to post.

DAAAAMMMNNNN get messed up son.

Is it bad that I like brawl?.....

 

[OverLade]

Is it bad that I like brawl?.....

It's bad that you dont play melee and are honestly trying to even talk about it or project M like you have any clue what you're talking about....

I like Brawl also, but only really because I'm good at it

 

[rPSIvysaur]

It is your opinion and the PMBR has already made the decision that they felt was right for the direction of the project and have already told you that.

 

[Rikana]

@frostymm

Just because they both have shine doesn't mean they do the same thing. Its like Mario and Doc. They both have exactly the same fAir but they're both used extremely differently. That goes for any similar animation attacks.

Another thing about "altering a character to make them overall better" (your jigs example). That's what majority wants. We all see jigs as that character with a broken bAir. If you were to completely change a character, they would move in the tier list considerably. This was not their goal. tHey wanted them to remain the same in the tier list (the high tiers at least). And they already may drop due to thefact that there are new characters and veterans being buffed. But, they stay true to heir melée counterpart which made them high tier in the first place.

Typed on iPhone. Ignore my mistakes.

 

[Stevo]

why would they change things from melee that people know and love? That's part of the reason so many people stayed with melee, brawl took away what people loved about melee.

90% of players in melee play high tier characters. why would they change characters like falco when people already love him?

blah blah blah read the first post

 

[frostymm]

It's bad that you dont play melee and are honestly trying to even talk about it or project M like you have any clue what you're talking about....

I like Brawl also, but only really because I'm good at it

I'm sorry that I am soooo uneducated and that I'm talking about it as a visual and game programming major and a gamer and a smash bros fan and not specifically a melee tourney player that has invested years worth of time into melee XD

Then if it doesn't matter then don't reply to me XD It'd be much appreciated if you would make that more clear in your OP or even the Dojo though...

 

[frostymm]

why would they change things from melee that people know and love? That's part of the reason so many people stayed with melee, brawl took away what people loved about melee.

90% of players in melee play high tier characters. why would they change characters like falco when people already love him?

blah blah blah read the first post

*sigh* sorry for the double post, they loved that about him because it made him top tier, because it made them good with him, no other reason I'm sure... You guys are trying to give me ammo now XD Ya know what, fine, I'm totally a troll, this is all I can do now...

 

[OverLade]

I'm sorry that I am soooo uneducated and that I'm talking about it as a visual and game programming major and a gamer and a smash bros fan and not specifically a melee tourney player that has invested years worth of time into melee XD

Then if it doesn't matter then don't reply to me XD It'd be much appreciated if you would make that more clear in your OP or even the Dojo though...

Being a game programmer has nothing to do with understanding a game. Even being a top player has nothing to do with understanding a game. Being a smash bros fan has nothing to do with understanding a game. And a slight increase in clarity of the front page isn't going to help you understand melee.

 

[frostymm]

Being a game programmer has nothing to do with understanding a game. Even being a top player has nothing to do with understanding a game. Being a smash bros fan has nothing to do with understanding a game. And a slight increase in clarity of the front page isn't going to help you understand melee.

Then how DO you understand the game?...

 

[Rikana]

*sigh* sorry for the double post, they loved that about him because it made him top tier, because it made them good with him, no other reason I'm sure... You guys are trying to give me ammo now XD Ya know what, fine, I'm totally a troll, this is all I can do now...

They're played because their style is fun. Yes, there are always those who main a character because it's their favorite but many realise that it doesn't suit their playstyle later on.

Its like how I used tonplay Roy cause he looks so cool but now I'm a falco main because I love playing aggressively.

-----

By the way. Out of topic but I got destroyed by unknown and kirbykaze's pichu yesterday. I'm sad.

 

[curry9186]

they loved that about him because it made him top tier, because it made them good with him, no other reason I'm sure...

Most people tend to love the characters that they play well with, or the ones they just really like personally. I really enjoy Link because I'm a zelda fan but he was terrible in brawl and only mediocre in melee. I'd love playing as link more if he were better which PM is doing now. They're making characters easier to love.

Haha, The goal of PM is to spread the love.

 

[Rikana]

You understand the game by being either Magus or M2K.

 

[JCaesar]

I know you guys are all in love with melee and it's tiers and all that wonderful stuff -.-' But why not make A NEW tier list. Or rather why not GET RID OF the tier list all-together?

Umm, the Project M tier list will (obviously) look nothing like the Melee tier list, since only the Melee high tiers will remain more or less unchanged (and even they won't play 100% exactly like their Melee counterparts).

And if you're really studying game design, you should already know that it's impossible to "GET RID OF the tier list all-together." That doesn't even make sense.

 

[frostymm]

Umm, the Project M tier list will (obviously) look nothing like the Melee tier list, since only the Melee high tiers will remain more or less unchanged (and even they won't play 100% exactly like their Melee counterparts).

And if you're really studying game design, you should already know that it's impossible to "GET RID OF the tier list all-together." That doesn't even make sense.

By get rid of it I mean make it as even as possible. Unlike brawl having an S tier and then a G tier for instance.... If their are tiers there should be no "Gawd they suck" tier and no "God" tier.

 

[Stevo]

Im pretty sure that is the plan.......

 

[ZeroUnderOne]

I'm sorry that I am soooo uneducated and that I'm talking about it as a visual and game programming major and a gamer and a smash bros fan and not specifically a melee tourney player that has invested years worth of time into melee XD

Pretty cool story

Then how DO you understand the game?...

Halzy has a fundamental understanding of the game mechanics. He respects the good aspects, acknowledges the bad aspects and thus understands why certain changes have been made. It's also why he is good at the games.

Spoiler

Most importantly, he can take a loss and be cool with it. In fact, he learns from it. Know what I mean? He doesn't whine in threads after his melee buddies beat him at a game with brawl characters in it...

By get rid of it I mean make it as even as possible. Unlike brawl having an S tier and then a G tier for instance.... If their are tiers there should be no "Gawd they suck" tier and no "God" tier.

Oh lawd. You haven't played PM or seen any footage have you?

 

[frostymm]

Pretty cool story



Halzy has a fundamental understanding of the game mechanics. He respects the good aspects, acknowledges the bad aspects and thus understands why certain changes have been made. It's also why he is good at the games.

Spoiler

Most importantly, he can take a loss and be cool with it. In fact, he learns from it. Know what I mean? He doesn't whine in threads after his melee buddies beat him at a game with brawl characters in it...

Oh lawd. You haven't played PM or seen any footage have you?

Then how do I NOT understand the game? XD I've seen some of the footage, I thought it was interesting and looked pretty cool, I wasn't really WOW'd by it and it doesn't tell me anything about how the tiers would be....

 

[GP&B]

How about they're changing Fox, Falco, and other top/high tier characters back to Melee moves because they have light years better technical game than their Brawl counterparts (especially Melee Falco compared to Brawl Falco) and there's no point in experimenting with them if they already work in the first place? What potential is there in Brawl Falco that's possibly worth messing with when we already know of a perfectly fine and much more technical moveset?

Another example would be Ganondorf, who I believe is better in every single way in Melee except for Brawl >B (well, and the swing at the end of his Up B). What the hell would be the point of sticking with Brawl 'Dorf minus those two moves? Captain Falcon suffers almost completely because of the engine (and some other issues like Knee sweetspot hitbox) so nothing really changes here.

And then there's Marth and Sheik who really won't change for anything but the better given that their Brawl counterparts essentially nerfed them and left it at that.

 

[frostymm]

How about they're changing Fox, Falco, and other top/high tier characters back to Melee moves because they have eons better technical game than their Brawl counterparts (especially Melee Falco compared to Brawl Falco) and there's no point in experimenting with them if they already work in the first place? What potential is there in Brawl Falco that's possibly worth messing with when we already know of a perfectly fine and much more technical moveset?

Another example would be Ganondorf, who I believe is better in every single way in Melee except for Brawl >B (well, and the swing at the end of his Up B). What the hell would be the point of sticking with Brawl 'Dorf minus those two moves? Captain Falcon suffers almost completely because of the engine (and some other issues like Knee sweetspot hitbox) so nothing really changes here.

And then there's Marth and Sheik who really won't change for anything but the better given that their Brawl counterparts essentially nerfed them and left it at that.

But if you really want to keep them all the same then what's the point in making a brawl mod for this? XD Why not just figure out a better way to mod the melee disc?

 

[Stevo]

it would be more work/less accessible

 

[frostymm]

it would be more work/less accessible

So is changing all the animations in brawl XD along with the entire physics of the game. And how is a clone engine more accessible then just originally having the characters there?

 

[GP&B]

That, and we're talking about seven to eight characters here out of thirty-nine (gonna kill myself if I got that wrong). That leaves thirty-one other characters that either need help (Melee veterans) or completely revamped movesets (Brawl newcomers).

EDIT: The clone engine allows us to add characters that aren't already there.

 

[MonkUnit]

Because with the clone engine, you can have characters such as Roy. That way you can do marth vs roy rather than replacing marth's FitMarth.pac with a Roy PSA.

EDIT: Ninja'd by GD06. >.>

 

[Archangel]

Yes, I'm being told that it's not melee or brawl, right? So it must be somewhere in between...

logic is flawed. That would be Brawl+ your thinking of.

I'm saying that part of it has become almost EXACTLY like melee. Why give falco shine when fox already has that? Why give JigglyPuff an overpowered back air if you could just power up her other moves and make her overall character play better?

This is a continuation of Melee. How many streetfighter games or games involving those characters have been released? at least 15. I can tell you that the basic character move-sets of the popular characters are almost identical throughout all of them regardless of the content change. Being a continuation doesn't mean a complete overhaul. With that said there are a number of differences between Melee 1 and what will be Melee 2. I do agree with you on the Puff thing but that would be unfair to Puff players. As for the Falco/Fox thing. Falco's old shine would be hard to incorporate into a melee setting. That and the fact that Fox's and Falco's shine have the same animation and frame rate....aside from that they are COMPLETELY different. If you can't see that then by this time 10 years later then you need to be checked out asap.

1. Being brawl characters with melee physics and metagame and being something new and creative that doesn't have to be brawl nor melee. (Being exactly how P:M states to be in the OP and what I'm in preference to.)
2. Being Melee.... With extra content from brawl.... (This being what I'm saying that you're doing)
3. Being a straight up Melee clone with everything exactly the same as it was in melee but just ported over to the wii so that it can have all the modding features of brawl. Or just making the old sucky characters better for tourney play...

If you like what Sakurai does just wait for SSB4 and you'll get what your looking for. This is called project Melee for a reason sir. It's hard to explain the small differences to you because obviously you don't know much about melee. What you are bringing up has already been talked about, tested, explored, and pretty much failed after awhile. As I said earlier you should've been around for the B+ Era....It proved to be a disaster in the long run though.

I know you guys are all in love with melee and it's tiers and all that wonderful stuff -.-' But why not make A NEW tier list. Or rather why not GET RID OF the tier list all-together? You're trying to make all the characters viable right? Trying to make them as BALANCED as possible right? Is the goal of project M to make it so all the old hardcore melee players want to play this over melee so they're trying to not make them hate it? Or are they actually trying to make something new that would bring some old love to a newer version of the game? (Newer not necessarily needing to mean better)

You make it obvious you have no idea what your talking about. The only reason top tiers are being restored is because A. They are already good and Proven to work in a Melee setting vs their brawl counterparts which for the most part suck in melee settings. It's already been stated that pretty much anything that was Better is being kept. Like Fox's Fair or Most of Falco's standard tilts and aerials. It just so happened that a Falco with his Brawl DownB would be a ****ty character because that doesn't work out for him in melee.

As for the tiers and stuff...do you even know what a tier is? or a tier list? It is based off of tournament results and which characters prove to be the most viable during a tournament setting. As of now there aren't any tiers in the game because there has been no tournaments with the completed version. It's also been stated OVER 9000 times that the balancing process HAS NOT began yet. Obviously as a continuation we want to bring back the core audience...which happens to be MELEE players. However new additions like Snake, Sonic, and Charzard have already shown so far to be able to more then keep up with the old "top tiers". When this is done even completed versions of melee top tiers may find themselves on the losing end verses the revamped returning melee characters, as well as the new brawl characters in melee physics.

As for Fox's and Falco's shine...I suggest you watch/play the game first before making noobish 2002 arguments.

My PERSONAL opinion is...

nobody cares tbh

Is it bad that I like brawl?....

.

it's a ****ty game.

 

[Dark Sonic]

So is changing all the animations in brawl XD along with the entire physics of the game. And how is a clone engine more accessible then just originally having the characters there?

Because brawl hacking is far more advanced than melee hacking, simply because the wii is easier to hack than the gamecube.

Brawl has more stages, has more characters, has more music and sound effects, and has more empty stuff to overwrite with better stuff.

Running P:M takes no more than an SD card and brawl, while doing melee hacks involves burning discs everytime you want to change something.


Not to mention that brawl actually did some things right, and we're keeping those.


You're also not going to find much support for brawl here because the fact is, if we're taking the time to hack brawl to be different, we obviously did not like something brawl did (okay, A LOT of what brawl did). This hack is not aimed at brawl players, the target audience is melee players. Yes we hope that brawl players will like this game too, but it's really just a matter of preference, and we prefer melee.

"Just play melee then" is an argument I'm tired of hearing too. Plenty of people want to play their brawl characters in melee (remember the old april fools joke of being able to unlock Sonic in melee through some ridiculous cruel melee achievement? People WANT these characters)

 

[frostymm]

That, and we're talking about seven to eight characters here out of thirty-nine (gonna kill myself if I got that wrong). That leaves thirty-one other characters that either need help (Melee veterans) or completely revamped movesets (Brawl newcomers).

EDIT: The clone engine allows us to add characters that aren't already there.

But you're only trying to add the lost MELEE characters, I don't see you trying to add every single character there is.... That would just be ridiculous. But that could STILL be done in Melee, right? Besides the brawl newcomers of course but you guys don't seem to care much for them because as you said their movesets need to be completely revamped because they are OBVIOUSLY no good... Cause they're Brawl and Melee is so much better right? Can't just tweak the moves to fit Melee, gotta completely redo them.


Edit: Wow spamarrows.... You're just mean. I have never said that Melee sucks or that I'm against the entire project... I had questions for it that were never quite answered or were just answered in a way that just brought up more. If you hate me so much then why do you respond and keep me here? And if you hate brawl so much then why would you bother with this or anything related to brawl? It seems that you and I are a bit out of place sir.
Brawl+ isn't Melee with brawl content O.o How'd you come to that?....