Project M Social Thread

[Hylian]

yeah that's fine @ Hylian. how much?

$5-$10 you can choose.

 

[ELI-mination]

leelue you calling me out? i'll freak your stuff up if i get the chance to meet you ever.

*points to signature*

 

[GHNeko]

Eli...I mean Dk is broken.

 

[Vigilante]

Somebody a while back called Lucario S tier. That kind of made me chuckle. The general sentiment is really all over the place. On one hand, some call him broken, but they tend to be people who never faced Lucarios in the past or suck at adapting to new playstyles. On the other hand, individuals experienced in Project M generally view him as fairly balanced but needing minor tweaks like getting his b-air easier to read for example.

The problem with him being S-tier is that his matchups are entierly situational. On one hand, he'll wreck some characters like Ganon with relative ease. On the other hand, he is horrible against floaties. Jiggs and Peach in particular can wipe the floor with him but neutralizing his ground game and escaping most of his comboes. Against spacies, it's more of a "whoever gets a solid combo in wins the set". Against characters with projectiles, he's got the disadvantage on large stages, but if you take them to say... Green Hill, you can nearly negate that problem.

I think he has a lot of potential, but I would hardly see him being as "all around" proficient as Jiggs or Fox.

 

[Dingding123]

link's friggin boring

 

[Soft Serve]

I think that is what happens with a lot of hyped characters. People look at certain match ups where the character dominates, or on certain stages where they have tons of control, and a midst the hype and the unfamiliar-ness they ignore/neglect the other side of the character spectrum, who's specific traits allow them to out maneuver, out-camp, or just escape from the hyped character options.

Seemingly OP characters seem that way for a reason, in that they have a lot going for them. They just get hyped and hated on because weaknesses of characters aren't always as apparent as strengths, and are a lot harder to exploit.

 

[Life]

Lucario is a TAS character like Fox and that makes him scary.

He may be S-tier someday, but not for now.

 

[DMG]

Ike being C tier is absolutely absurd. I don't think he's broken but C tier? What the ****? Have you people ever played a competitive game before? lol I can't even believe someone would think that.

Oh no NOOOOOOO I knew where this was going Jordan no NOOO. Stop it doesn't have to be li-

Ike C Tier?

It's more like throwing Marshmallows at a Tank.

Little known fact: tanks love marshmallows.

While I personally don't fully agree on using raw tourney results as examples for tier placement (albeit watching good players do tourney sets helps show how high-level match-ups actually work out, which IS relevant to tiers) one has to admit: Ike does well in tournies. He's probably been the most consistent character as of late out of anyone in the cast. There are other characters that simply don't have anywhere close to the speed, power, and options Ike has to perform the same.

Really, an A-Tier Minimum.

That's what confuses me. Even if you completely reject the tournament placings, his actual gameplay shows nothing so significantly awful to put him low. Ike is not a Luigi, he's not a Kirby or Yoshi or old Mario where he's just too average. He's got enough going for him as someone said for top 10 easily. Actual result wise? Easily top 5, maybe top 3 just sheer win rate wise.

Kink. Ike is incredible.

INCREDIBLY C TIER!

I think that is what happens with a lot of hyped characters. People look at certain match ups where the character dominates, or on certain stages where they have tons of control, and a midst the hype and the unfamiliar-ness they ignore/neglect the other side of the character spectrum, who's specific traits allow them to out maneuver, out-camp, or just escape from the hyped character options.

Seemingly OP characters seem that way for a reason, in that they have a lot going for them. They just get hyped and hated on because weaknesses of characters aren't always as apparent as strengths, and are a lot harder to exploit.

It's a lot more common with characters buffed and new characters entered into the Melee environment. We're bound to be giddy and a bit wet... FROM PERSPIRATION! STANDING THIS CLOSE TO THE ROCK!

 

[cannedbread]

fun fact: lucario's bair turns him around.

 

[DMG]

Pick Marth vs Lucario

How approach? Lucario pondered as he was hit

 

[GP&B]

link's friggin boring

I've heard this sentiment before and I'm curious why people say this. I don't really find him boring per se, but Toon Link is just a joy to move around with to me.

 

[stingers]

Pick Marth vs Lucario

How approach? Lucario pondered as he was hit

i bet he could down b through aerials
or something

 

[Archangel]

Guru used Pit
Ask him how that went

Guru most likely ran away until he was defeated.

i bet he could down b through aerials
or something

that.

Also @ LVL9 cpu discussion. Against 2 of my mates I teamed with lvl 9 peach in friendlies and we actually won some matches...was very fun.

 

[GHNeko]

So I want to know. For those who watched the tourney in MD, how was my commentary?

 

[Vigilante]

Lol, just saying, I think Lucario is good, but it will take a while before someone unlocks his full potential. We haven't seen Lucarios win tournaments yet, so I think we are way too early in his creation to make that sort of statement.

He requires an insane amount of skill to use well, and his matchups are fairly polarizing, so I always keep a secondary at hand for the bad matchups.

 

[GHNeko]

Lucario is a high execution character, but outside of that, what you really need skill in is getting in lol.

 

[Archangel]

Lol, just saying, I think Lucario is good, but it will take a while before someone unlocks his full potential. We haven't seen Lucarios win tournaments yet, so I think we are way too early in his creation to make that sort of statement.

He requires an insane amount of skill to use well, and his matchups are fairly polarizing, so I always keep a secondary at hand for the bad matchups.

You should watch tournaments outside of the US. The Euros are already on lucario.

 

[leelue]

leelue you calling me out? i'll freak your stuff up if i get the chance to meet you ever.

Yo ma dude
I was like
"Word, come out an chill with some super smash with me and the homies. You won't get ***** I promise." But you saw thru the lie and was like

"nah man, I got 'school' an **** and I, uh, got a bun in the oven and/or laundry to bleach so I gotta stay back at the crib ima holla".

Facts

 

[iLink]

i bet he could down b through aerials
or something

Its kind of specific spacing. If you can get behind him then you can do something about it, otherwise you will get punished for trying. Half the time it wont end fast enough to even do anything about the fair unless you use a charge to cancel it.

Marth is definitely a hard mu against lucario if he spaces properly.

 

[Vigilante]

Well, I won money from Project M tourneys using Lucario / Pit but I don't count those. The skill level wasn't the highest. I admit I pay zero attention tot he euro scene, maybe I should check.

 

[Archangel]

Well, I won money from Project M tourneys using Lucario / Pit but I don't count those. The skill level wasn't the highest. I admit I pay zero attention tot he euro scene, maybe I should check.

You should otherwise you'll look like most players did during the peach discussion pre-genesis 1.

 

[Dingding123]

I've heard this sentiment before and I'm curious why people say this. I don't really find him boring per se, but Toon Link is just a joy to move around with to me.

Toon Link runs faster and is more of a challenge which makes him funrer

Link:M is Melee Link with buffs everywhere, and autocombos

You dashattack/usmash/utilt/uair/dthrow, you juggle, you knock people away from the stage

also you don't KILL people
you don't have a KNEE
or a REST
or DAT UPSMASH and now...oh HAPPY FEET, WOMBO COMBO etc.
just moves that sorta gimp people in one way or another and it's boring.
Most of the time you just push people too far away from the stage to recover

snoOOOORe

 

[GP&B]

So fair and dair should kill at 80%, obv.

 

[Dingding123]

yes and autocombos should be removed

perfect balanced

 

[Archangel]

I think Tink and Link are close, each has their strength but ultimately Tink has slightly more weaknesses. Too many times does his short range come back to haunt him, Combine with his naturally weaker recovery it just makes him a little harder to compete with in comparison to Link.

 

[metroid1117]

Well, I won money from Project M tourneys using Lucario / Pit but I don't count those. The skill level wasn't the highest. I admit I pay zero attention tot he euro scene, maybe I should check.

Leffen's Lucaro is really good, he does some crazy stuff in this match (granted, Zoler clearly wasn't very familiar with Ike though). Fuzzyness' Lucario is also good, but I think Leffen does more impressive things than he does.

 

[Dingding123]

although btw guise

guise

stop balancing until ur
SUER x 1000009

that you cant bring back melee wavedashes

u no wat i mens
the 1frame delays that everyone says doesn't matter

Spoiler

but dos

 

[DrinkingFood]

But that will never happen. Have faith that the PMBR can fix Sakurai's failure. Magus can undo the frame delay. With some help from the rest of PMBR of course.

Spoiler

and by help i mean cheering while he works his hacking wizardry

 

[Kink-Link5]

Does the one frame delay effect fast falling, as I would imagine?

Because Falco's lasers are like, 2 frames higher if that's case.

 

[hotdogturtle]

Ike being C tier is absolutely absurd. I don't think he's broken but C tier? What the ****? Have you people ever played a competitive game before? lol I can't even believe someone would think that.

Not to single out you in particular, this post just happened to be the first unread post that showed up for me, but this post pretty much sums up what this thread has become in the past month or two. Everyone is just throwing around their own baseless opinions and never posting any evidence to back them up or even attempt to support their arguments.

 

[`dazrin]

Goodness- this thread... x-x"

Anyways, as a Toon Link main, I can honestly just say that Link is a much better character overall than Toon Link, and requires much less work to be good with him.

Link pros:
- Longer range
- Longer grab reach
- Longer tether recovery
- Much more power
- Heavier

Toon Link pros:
- More mobility
- Better projectiles (meaning that you can combo more easily out of them)
- Better recovery
(Much better AGT, has a walljump, and a more reliable bombjump. Granted, you need to work much harder to recover with TL since his recovery relies on advanced tactics)

Link just far outshines Toon Link. Toon Link is better at certain things, (camping and racking up damage) but it isn't enough to warrant Toon Link as a better overall tournament pick than Link is. Not only that, but you have to work much harder as Toon Link as he requires that you use advanced tactics to recover and spam more efficiently. Overall, Link just has better MUs due to more well rounded attributes, where as Toon Link is sort of placed in this niche role of a better camper.

@KinkLink:
Just because people like Leffen and Umbreon come on here and talk smack about Ike doesn't mean that you should just blindly be swayed by them and believe what they say. Don't be ignorant. Try to base your arguments off of real life tournament experience rather than vomiting frame data and theorysmash.

We all know that you don't really get to play this game very much, if it all with proficient players. You even expressed to me personally that you still can't get TL's bombjump recovery to work, and you can't figure out for the life of yourself how to moonwalk. These techniques are relatively easy to learn if you put some time into actually practicing and playing the game, rather than just sitting on the forums/ irc all day posting condescending and snide comments to others, and ignorantly posting theorysmash you believe as true.

On behalf of the community, I'd ask that you take a moment to stop and think about what you're going to post before you post it. I understand that some people don't have access to a tournament scene in their area, and those people might lack experience playing competent players as a result; but it doesn't mean that you should go around posting like you do. You aren't the only one, and I'm sorry I had to target this towards you, but this had to be said, and it had to be said to someone.

I'm taking the time to post this because it's something that's been going on for quite a bit of time, and people agree that it's a problem that starts unnecessary discussion, and fills this thread up with garbage.

Thanks.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Is the usefulness of moonwalking ever not extremely situational? I wouldn't know, as I never really played a character who could made use of it.

 

[GHNeko]

I wouldn't call moonwalking extremely situational. Just plain situational seems more appropriate.

But then again, I might be bias. I main Sonic who has more useful tools out of moonwalk than most.

 

[Soft Serve]

I've used it for sexy tech chases with Sonic. uthrow >moonwalk >regrab works on mario at some percents. At least in demo 1 it did.

It's useful for character who want to more momentum for a bair edge guard off stage, such as falcon, Link, and I would think snake.

But most importantly, it's super swag.

 

[Gallo69]

Does anything Project M go on near Brooklyn? Smashfests or Tourneys?

If not, anyone who lives in the NYC area is welcome to come to my place to play some smash pretty much any time. My new work schedule is 9pm-2am so I'm almost always free.

Let me know via text - 718-916-7919 or aim - thegalloslg

 

[GHNeko]

Brooklyn? You need to get @ Gurukid/Leelue/ELI for NY smash fests then.

lol son. how are you not playing them yet lolol.

Insomniac 2 needs to be made at this point.

 

[McNinja]

Yeah the only reason I moonwalk is just to do something between stocks mostly. Style points count!

 

[Life]

Wonder if McNinja is related to the good doctor.

Also, ike

 

[Hylian]

Not to single out you in particular, this post just happened to be the first unread post that showed up for me, but this post pretty much sums up what this thread has become in the past month or two. Everyone is just throwing around their own baseless opinions and never posting any evidence to back them up or even attempt to support their arguments.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14884685&postcount=73729
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14884852&postcount=73736

??? Ruby didn't respond to me once, or give me any material to discuss or I would have and kink responded once and then not again so *shrugs*.

 

[Oneupsalesman]

I wish Charizard could win like he does in the anime.

Then get better and you'll win.

Does anyone know how P:M is over in Japan? I see a very large amount of members of the PMBR in that list someone linked (this one https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...ttdEFPWnRBOFRka2xHc3piTmVuMFZ0SEE&output=html) but I haven't heard anything about P:M in Japan.

Would that work on a different region Wii/disc?