Project M Social Thread

[Divinokage]

what are ike's weaknesses

Mmm.... I wonder..

 

[Archangel]

I say compile a list of all strengths and weaknesses of every character in the game thus far. That should give us all something to do.

 

[-Chad-]

"Basically his weaknesses are that he can be hit again after he's been hit already. He can only roll left, right, or spot-dodge, or shield-grab if he's being pressured"

oh.

and here i was thinking a lot of chars had that weakness

 

[metroid1117]

@Strong Bad: I personally don't like fighting Falco as Ike, but I'm probably playing the match-up wrong.

His recovery is pretty good too, I found it difficult to edgeguard him mainly because of the side-B again.. but I think I would need to play this more to really understand the limitations if he really has one.. I mean for his recovery. I thought maybe you can simply intercept the side-B with your body but that seems incredibly risky. And for Ike to be able to recover upwards from being at the bottom of a stage seems a little broken, I don't think that should be available for any character to do.

The QD recovery is tricky to edgeguard if you can't go out and hit him before he uses it. The annoying part about it is that Ike has the option of using the QD attack, which lets him fend off his opponents while allowing him to shorten the distance he travels. Furthermore, if he hits something while QD attacking in the air, he does not go into freefall and can up+B to get back to the stage.

Reliability on stages for his recovery...

I honestly think Ike's recovery is pretty good and reliable, even without walls I'd definitely say it's much better than average.

Basically his weaknesses are that he can be hit again after he's been hit already... On a stage with no walls you have to pay attention to how you DI because he has no side-b safety net but still has a very good, very difficult to edgeguard up-B but overall his recovery is less silly on walled stages....

In the air, Ike isn't exactly free combo food if he still has his jump; double-jump -> fastfall retreating NAir is an option that I've found to be extremely helpful for breaking out of combos. However, he does not have any fast, reliable options to fend off opponents like other characters do.

His up+B is annoying to edgeguard, but the most reliable way to deal with it is to grab the edge as his sword flies upward so you can drop down and hit him as he comes up for his sword. The alternative is to edgehog him if he tries to sweetspot (grab the edge as his sword comes up and wait a bit before rolling, otherwise he can grab the edge) or use an attack with high priority to hit him out of Aether as he's spinning in the air.

EDIT: -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In all seriousness, Ike struggles against characters with strong projectiles or any character that can effectively shut down ground approaches - this prevents him from controlling space with QD. He also struggles against characters that can weave in-and-out of his zone of attack when he comes from the air onto the ground; while his aerial speed is better-than-average and FAir/NAir have long range and decent cool-down time, it's possible to grab him much like it's possible to grab Marth as he lands during FAirs. He lacks quick and reliable combo-breakers and is heavy, so he gets combo'd easily. Furthermore, he has a slow jump, so wavedash OOS is not as good of an option for him to deal with shield pressure. BAir OOS is a good option to cover people who cross-up your shield, but he has relatively few options to cover his front.

Most notably, his recovery is fairly linear in terms of possible angles he could go when stages don't have walls; QD goes straight and Aether goes upward. However, his recovery is not completely bad because he can mix up the distance of QD by throwing out QD attack and he has a lot of control over when he up+Bs, allowing him to throw off anyone trying to edgehog him while he still has options. The best thing to do is to hit Ike before he has the chance to use a recovery move or to force him into using up+B and then edgehogging him accordingly.

However, those weaknesses are purely defensive weaknesses; Ike's offensive capabilities are enough to cover those weaknesses, so they aren't exploited quite as easily unless you have a strong projectile that can help you influence the pace of the match (Falco, Pit, etc.)

 

[Archangel]

"Basically his weaknesses are that he can be hit again after he's been hit already. He can only roll left, right, or spot-dodge, or shield-grab if he's being pressured"

oh.

and here i was thinking a lot of chars had that weakness

oh no not at all...it's exclusive to Ike and it completely prevents him from being S-tier. Game and watch has a 9 hammer and he can UpB OoS so he's clearly better.

 

[Hylian]

Link's menagerie of techniques and combos presents a lot of potential. He has access to a decent amount of Brawl ATs coupled with the ability to combo like he did in Melee, and even more so thanks to buffed Usmash and Dsmash. He is definitely tournament viable and I know JCz picks him as a CP to Ike, despite his performance at FC against Vro (he definitely choked, I know JCz is pretty good with Link).

Hylian is definitely correct about nair and jab. These are quick attacks that can help Link out of some unsavory situations and it is indeed what helps him out against quicker characters. Combine that with a very solid projectile game and Zair, which is quicker than ever might I add, and Link is looking great. It's a shame no one is representing him in tournaments however. I'd like to see someone like Lord HDL play with him or maybe Legan. Or even better, GERM, who still plays apparently.

I play with Legan actually and my link is much better, he just plays a melee link lol. I have played both melee and brawl on a high tournament level and know how to use the mechanics they added better. I also have played a lot more P:M than he has lol. I really want to find a tournament to attend, my roommate and I both think we are really good and would do well in tournaments.

Is their a hackless version of this I can download to save replays without them bugging out? I could upload some matches if so.

 

[Vaerix]

My friend plays a really projectile-happy Link. Superb stage control with boomerang and bombs, and nearly perfectly-placed bairs and nairs. He's great at comboing from returning 'rangs, but he doesn't really incorporate AGTing much. He transferred most of his playstyle from Melee Link, so he hasn't had a chance to incorporate Brawl tactics and techniques yet. He likes hitting a falling bomb with the boomerang though.

Also, while playing, he consistently says that Link is broken, even while using him. I think it should be noted that he's still having fun playing as Link though. He really enjoys what the PMBR has done with 'im.

On that note, I really should start recording these things.

 

[`dazrin]

DK is not top 10.

I'm picking up Ike btw.

for Falco

Rofl, according to Yakal, DK is free. xD

And yep, just play homo and pew.

I'm sad I got placed in such a hard pool :< I wanted to see how my Toon Link would stack up against more brawl newcomers :/ I only got to play melee characters.. lol oh wellz.

Got 4th seed when I expected to get 2-0'd by everyone in my pool lol. If only top 4 advanced into bracket, I woulda made it out haha. Oh well, there's always gonna be more tournaments, so it doesn't matter. I had the most fun I'd ever had ever at FC anyways :D
[COLLAPSE="My Pool (..as far as I remember it, anyways)"]`dazrin,
Axe, (pika)
Little England, (falco?)
The Good Doctor, (sheik?)
Eikellmann, (Marth)
X, (this dude is really damn good, got 2nd seed, I believe. One of apples' friends, apparently) (Marth?)
John! (Falco)
BuckOhFive (DK)[/COLLAPSE]
I had SO much fun at FC just meeting the PMBR crew and all the other players as well as playing with them You guys are all so super cool! :D
I'll give y'all shoutout's in the FC thread when I wake up cuz I just got home from a taxi, 2 greyhounds, and 2 flights back to BC.

 

[Archangel]

@Strong Bad: I personally don't like fighting Falco as Ike, but I'm probably playing the match-up wrong.



The QD recovery is tricky to edgeguard if you can't go out and hit him before he uses it. The annoying part about it is that Ike has the option of using the QD attack, which lets him fend off his opponents while allowing him to shorten the distance he travels. Furthermore, if he hits something while QD attacking in the air, he does not go into freefall and can up+B to get back to the stage.



I honestly think Ike's recovery is pretty good and reliable, even without walls I'd definitely say it's much better than average.



In the air, Ike isn't exactly free combo food if he still has his jump; double-jump -> fastfall retreating NAir is an option that I've found to be extremely helpful for breaking out of combos. However, he does not have any fast, reliable options to fend off opponents like other characters do.

His up+B is annoying to edgeguard, but the most reliable way to deal with it is to grab the edge as his sword flies upward so you can drop down and hit him as he comes up for his sword. The alternative is to edgehog him if he tries to sweetspot (grab the edge as his sword comes up and wait a bit before rolling, otherwise he can grab the edge) or use an attack with high priority to hit him out of Aether as he's spinning in the air.

EDIT: -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In all seriousness, Ike struggles against characters with strong projectiles or any character that can effectively shut down ground approaches - this prevents him from controlling space with QD. He also struggles against characters that can weave in-and-out of his zone of attack when he comes from the air onto the ground; while his aerial speed is better-than-average and FAir/NAir have long range and decent cool-down time, it's possible to grab him much like it's possible to grab Marth as he lands during FAirs. He lacks quick and reliable combo-breakers and is heavy, so he gets combo'd easily. Furthermore, he has a slow jump, so wavedash OOS is not as good of an option for him to deal with shield pressure. BAir OOS is a good option to cover people who cross-up your shield, but he has relatively few options to cover his front.

Most notably, his recovery is fairly linear in terms of possible angles he could go when stages don't have walls; QD goes straight and Aether goes upward. However, his recovery is not completely bad because he can mix up the distance of QD by throwing out QD attack and he has a lot of control over when he up+Bs, allowing him to throw off anyone trying to edgehog him while he still has options. The best thing to do is to hit Ike before he has the chance to use a recovery move or to force him into using up+B and then edgehogging him accordingly.

However, those weaknesses are purely defensive weaknesses; Ike's offensive capabilities are enough to cover those weaknesses, so they aren't exploited quite as easily unless you have a strong projectile that can help you influence the pace of the match (Falco, Pit, etc.)

Yeah I'd say this pretty much covers it.

Fun fact: you can beat my arrows with your sword. GG Ike.

also, after years of maining Marth and *****ing about falco I find it almost offensive that nobody bothers to Power shield considering how easy it is now. Power shield a single laser with Ike and you have all the time you need to QD attack him.

 

[`dazrin]

Great post, Metroid. I'd agree with everything you said there.

The reason why HBox was able to deal with Vro so easily was because he learned how to space against Ike extremely well and was always right outside of the FAir range, and punished with a bair when Ike whiffed it.

Also I feel like Ike doesn't do AS well when you create a wall of projectiles to keep him at bay, but you can only keep throwing projectiles for so long. You're gonna have to go in for the kill sometime, and Ike can space his fair to keep you from doing so, and can make fair extremely safe by just jabbing right after l-canceled fairs. The only reason HBox was able to punish Ike's fair is because Jigg's bair kept hbox from getting jabbed directly out of a whiffed ike fair, and hbox combo'd and WoP'd from there. It really just came down to incredible spacing by HBox, and Vro mildly choking a bit Vro did an excellent job of showcasing what Ike was capable of at FC, though, and I'm really glad he did that to prove a point. Congrats on your placing, Vro! Was great to meet you and play with you before I knew you had the capability of destroying Melee's best players in P:M with your Ike

And about Ike's recovery, up-b is extremely difficult/annoying to edgeguard because of the armor it has on startup and how the sword hits through the stage quite far, and stays out for a good amount of time. The fact that he can QD as far as FD end-to-end is a little silly as well. I don't think Ike needs something like that to be good. It seems very unnecessary that a character with more range than Marth, more power than Ganon, and more mobility than Falco needs to have a recovery better than all the chracter's I just described.
My suggestion would be to reduce the QD range a bit, limit QDWJ to 1 or 2, remove the armor, and consider maybe doing something about it having a very long lasting hitbox that hits through the stage on up-b, although, it might already be too much after the first two. These would have to undergo quite a bit of playtesting to make sure they are in a good spot, but what I'm generally trying to say is that ig PMBR wants to tone down Ike, they should be looking at the recovery, first and foremost.

That's where I would personally start, anyways. Ike's recovery needs to be toned down a little in my opinion.

Once some testing goes on after a toned down recovery, maybe putting a very miniscule amount more endlag on Ike's tilts would be an ideal place to look. It's extremely easy to break shields using tilts alone with Ike, and the hit-stun is so long that you can't do anything about it on shield. It's a bit silly I think spacing FAir's into a jab is really annoying, it's not a very big issue.

I just wouldn't want to see Ike become nerfed as all hell and become an extremely terrible character, but I have complete faith that the PMBR knows what to do and how to deal with it.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

Is their a hackless version of this I can download to save replays without them bugging out? I could upload some matches if so.

The "Wifi-Safe" version would be what you're looking for. It doesn't have the code for light shoulder button presses to trigger shield, though, as that's what makes Wi-Fi and replays desync. HERE is the link to that version.

EDIT: Actually, I forgot that you don't have to download the whole thing. The only difference is the RSBE01.gct file. So just download THIS and replace the current one in the codes folder with it.

 

[kaizo13]

finally people are starting to realize that Ike's recovery is not that terrible...I've been saying it from the start

Sure DDD and marth can easily intercept his up-b with a well timed attack but who else has that kind of range? Ike's up-b multi-hitboxes go so far into the stage that u have to keep ur distance just to edgeguard him so anyone else is going to have trouble with that.

Ganon's (predictable recovery) up-b punch was shrunk yet Ike got to keep that massive barrage of hitboxes, and the armor, and a very fast side-b, and multiple wall jumps. Just like a lot of other things in his arsenal, his recovery should also be toned down a bit.

his recovery should remain one of his weaknesses, as of now...his strengths hardly make it an issue.

 

[Archangel]

I think his up-B should simply be faster. Make it useful OoS and yet easier to edgehog. and perhaps change the range on his sword when it's thrown up so that people with slightly less range than DDD or another Ike can hit him with well timed high priority attacks.

 

[Jolteon]

what are ike's weaknesses

dedede .

 

[leelue]

Pretty sure metroid111117 is my fav regular poster

 

[JCaesar]

Link is easily top 10 imo.

Assuming I make it to The Big House 2, I'm coming after all the Ikes.

 

[leelue]

Agree with JC on link
Anyone who disagrees is a nut

Spoiler

a deku nut

/top tier joke

 

[Archangel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpazcjvMpao

This ending is hilarious

 

[Tmacc]

I play with Legan actually and my link is much better, he just plays a melee link lol. I have played both melee and brawl on a high tournament level and know how to use the mechanics they added better. I also have played a lot more P:M than he has lol. I really want to find a tournament to attend, my roommate and I both think we are really good and would do well in tournaments.

Is their a hackless version of this I can download to save replays without them bugging out? I could upload some matches if so.

I told you how to save replays yesterday...lol

Also, Link is an incredibly good character, boomerang creates such good stage pressure and his combos are pretty insane. Juggles like it's nobodies business and is also surprisingly heavy with crazy kill potential and an amazing recovery.

 

[KingBlaze777]

.

9. Lucas - I could probably have put Lucas even higher, here, but I'm not really sure where he stands. Suffice to say, demo 2.1 Lucas is crazy good. PK Freeze locks opponents down in relative safety almost as well as Falco's lasers. Then, Lucas's nair, combined with PK Shine shenanigans, keeps his opponent in either a state of blocking or getting hit. He has really good carry combos, and all sorts of ways to control his opponent once he's gotten the hit off. He suffers from the fact that he can't force his opponent's approach at all, but he also has to outplay his opponent to get easy KOs (otherwise he doesn't kill till 150%). Lucas has potential. I think most players overlook him.

.

His B charged Smashes kill as fast as Fox or Pika UpSmash, all Lucas has to do is set them up and BAM opponent has one stock less. In my opinion Lucas doesn't need to force approaches, as he is a rushdown character and he has Falco's Lasers in the shape of PK Freeze.

And to whoever said that Wolf has the WORST laser out of the 3 spacies, he hasn't discovered how to use them properly and is trying to use them like Falco lasers. Try wavedashing the Lasers, you'll see how good they are. The worst laser out of the 3 spacies goes to Fox as it only does 2-3% no hitstun or knockback but it's rapid fire makes up for that, so in comparison it sucks to the other two (but it definitely doesn't suck)

 

[kaizo13]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpazcjvMpao

This ending is hilarious

LOLOLOL

and I agree with KingBlaze, Wolf's blaster is way better than Fox's

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Wow, a lot of stuff happened in this topic while I was sleeping.

I just thought I'd mention Ganon's grounded sideB is definitely worse. He lost a good combo/punish move and instead gained a move that allows him to techchase. Which, you know, Ganon is really good at.

Ganon's aerial sideB, on the other hand, is way better. In Melee it was almost useless, and here it's absolutely amazing. You can intercept the opponent really easily, and do pretty much anything out of it. It's absolutely awesome.

Ganon's recovery is also way better than it was in Melee, mostly due to the addition of sideB, but also due to increased UpB range.

Ganon's also had a bunch of subtle boosts to all of his moves, and can ledgehop Fair now. I don't know if he's top 10, but if he isn't, I'm sure he's almost there.

Ganon can't beat Ike, though. I might need to pick up another character for the matchup. Ganon v Ike feels a lot like Lucas v Ganon, when your opponents CGs you to death. JC, how good is ROB in the matchup? Or do I need to pick up another character for Ike?

 

[Archangel]

Play Marth/Fox and you should do fine.

 

[JCaesar]

ROB loses to Ike. I use Link or Marth for the matchup depending on the size of the stage. I think they both solidly beat him.

 

[Spoon~]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpazcjvMpao

This ending is hilarious

rofl, dtilt to fsmash shouldnt be a legit ike combo

 

[Onomanic]

@Hylian, I didn't think Legan still played. That's actually pretty awesome. You should tell him to incorporate some of that Brawl **** into his game, some of it actually works.

I think if you play on the wifi safe version of P:M you can save replays. But don't quote me on that, I'm not quite sure myself.

 

[Juushichi]

It's kind of a shame, because Legan's Brawl Link **** is amazing.

It's so frustrating playing him, lol. I want to go to Big House 2, since I missed this.

 

[MonkUnit]

Wifi build = wifi and replay friendly.

 

[Archangel]

I think everyone should play the wifi safe version simply because wifi teams *****. I recorded some matches...I think I may upload them at some point...idk...if I do I'll post them here.

 

[Nintendude]

To people talking about Peach earlier:

Peach did get one notable buff: glide toss out of shield. It gives her another counterattack option that isn't Nair or wavedash oos.
Peach wrecks Lucario. If she floats then Lucario can't do anything since her aerials plow through him, and she won't get dash attacked while in the air.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

I dont think peach is as good as she use to be. I have only used her a couple of times but to me it feels like her shield pressure is not as good as it was in melee. My friend was able to jump away after a fc fair on shield without me being able to hit him with anything (not even jab). B/c her shield pressure seems to be less i wouldn't put her in the top 10 of pm.

Also fun fact she could glide toss in melee it just barely moved her.

 

[DMG]

And to whoever said that Wolf has the WORST laser out of the 3 spacies, he hasn't discovered how to use them properly and is trying to use them like Falco lasers. Try wavedashing the Lasers, you'll see how good they are. The worst laser out of the 3 spacies goes to Fox as it only does 2-3% no hitstun or knockback but it's rapid fire makes up for that, so in comparison it sucks to the other two (but it definitely doesn't suck)

No I know about that, what I mean is that you can eat through them with attacks. His lasers have bad priority: being able to set up a "Guile" wall is fine but you can just aerial through them. I don't find his lasers being very forceful or limiting compared to Falco or Fox eventually chipping at you. Then again, I play characters that don't have much trouble closing the gap vs Wolf to begin with so maybe I'm biased against them lol.

 

[Archangel]

I dont think peach is as good as she use to be. I have only used her a couple of times but to me it feels like her shield pressure is not as good as it was in melee. My friend was able to jump away after a fc fair on shield without me being able to hit him with anything (not even jab). B/c her shield pressure seems to be less i wouldn't put her in the top 10 of pm.

Also fun fact she could glide toss in melee it just barely moved her.

Peach is technically buffed it's just shield pressure as a whole is currently nerfed. do to Brawl shields

No I know about that, what I mean is that you can eat through them with attacks. His lasers have bad priority: being able to set up a "Guile" wall is fine but you can just aerial through them. I don't find his lasers being very forceful or limiting compared to Falco or Fox eventually chipping at you. Then again, I play characters that don't have much trouble closing the gap vs Wolf to begin with so maybe I'm biased against them lol.

you just need to watch a good wolf play. Then you realize wolf is a spacie that main time join Fox/Falco near the top of the game...who knows.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Peach is technically buffed it's just shield pressure as a whole is currently nerfed. do to Brawl shields

Thats what i thought, but b/c of the shields shes not as good and until it is fixed i would be surprised if she was really top 10. Also of course all of the buffed and new characters also move her down the tier list imo

 

[ph00tbag]

His B charged Smashes kill as fast as Fox or Pika UpSmash, all Lucas has to do is set them up and BAM opponent has one stock less. In my opinion Lucas doesn't need to force approaches, as he is a rushdown character and he has Falco's Lasers in the shape of PK Freeze.

I don't disagree. But that's why I said easy KOs. His KO moves that are easy to set up are much more rare than the ones that require good reads. Fair -> Fsmash and simple launchers into usmash are the only ones I've seen work consistently, and at the percents where the combos actually link, uncharged smashes don't reliably KO. It's a bit of a Marth syndrome, where if he can get his ducks in a row, he can KO very early, but if he can't get it done by the time his opponent has hit around 80%, he has to run around fishing for KO moves or wait until his fair will kill. This is something he's capable of, because of his mobility options, but it means he has to make fewer mistakes while doing so.

 

[Spoon~]

I don't disagree. But that's why I said easy KOs. His KO moves that are easy to set up are much more rare than the ones that require good reads. Fair -> Fsmash and simple launchers into usmash are the only ones I've seen work consistently, and at the percents where the combos actually link, uncharged smashes don't reliably KO. It's a bit of a Marth syndrome, where if he can get his ducks in a row, he can KO very early, but if he can't get it done by the time his opponent has hit around 80%, he has to run around fishing for KO moves or wait until his fair will kill. This is something he's capable of, because of his mobility options, but it means he has to make fewer mistakes while doing so.

He also has the sick mewtwo uthrow, if you can bait a nice pivot grab that is.

 

[DrinkingFood]

I'm sorry for saying this, but I thought the above post, especially the top portion, was borderline-offensive towards Kage and didn't show him the respect he deserves. Kage is a national-caliber player that has competed against and beat many players who are highly regarded in both the Melee and Project M community. In my opinion, putting what has been known since Demo 2.0 came out "in less stupid terms" is almost insulting, especially when coming from someone who has no tournament results to back his or her theory crafting. Props to Kage for responding to your post without any trace of hostility towards what I perceive as a lack of respect.

(Yes, it is sort of elitist to have that mentality but, quite frankly, I'm getting tired of hearing all the claims that go "just do X, Y, and Z to beat Ike" when people as respected as Kage have trouble against him. It's really not that simple. There are some bad Ike players but there are some really good ones like Vro and Eli, I wish people would form opinions after playing a good Ike instead of just sitting back and theory-crafting.)

By the way, Kage is not kidding when he says Ike can combo you across a huge stage.

You read my post completely wrong. But I'm not going to bother to elaborate. Mostly because this tablet has a ****ty keyboard.

I have to say this DrinkingFoods guy is quite a character.....I think I'd like to play a 1,000 MM against him some day. I could use the money.

Only if I use... IKE
I win, $1000. I lose, Ike is clearly a bad character in need of buffs.

what are ike's weaknesses

Good players

To people talking about Peach earlier:

Peach did get one notable buff: glide toss out of shield. It gives her another counterattack option that isn't Nair or wavedash oos.
Peach wrecks Lucario. If she floats then Lucario can't do anything since her aerials plow through him, and she won't get dash attacked while in the air.

As well as aerial glide toss, an improved utilt, and a more usable fsmash.

 

[-Chad-]

"Good players"

enlightening

 

[DrinkingFood]

Lol

Spoiler

10lulz

 

[iLink]

I wouldn't put wolf near Fox or Falco. He is definitely solid and shares some of their tools, but lacks a good aerial approach like they do. Nair is really the only one he has and that doesn't compare to Fox/Falco's nair or dair in terms of approach simply due to the reach and priority they have. Fair has too many landing frames to really hitconfirm into anything at a safe distance.

I can see Link actually maybe being in top 10, he just has so many solid tools now. Good keep away, can combo fairly well, fairly good range and speed, can cg most of the cast, can set up kills. Only glaring weakness I see is he is kind of combo food and doesn't have the greatest recovery but he has stuff to cover those holes.

Lucas is another sleeper character that I think has the potential to be in the top 10.

Also I want to say I really don't think Lucario is top 10. He can do some crazy looking stuff to you when he gets in, but that's a pretty big problem for him to do to begin with. He gets shut down pretty bad by anyone with a decent projectile and anyone that has decent range can keep him away fairly well. I could think of like 10 problematic matchups off the top of my head, and that's in the demo alone. His air game is pretty awful too. Fair takes too long to extend to its desired range to be too effective and you can't really even follow up most hits if the opponent is actually DI'ing correctly.

Most people are caught up on how unavoidable his jab > sideb or dash attack > sideb are on shield when in most cases you can literally roll to avoid the sideb. His dash attack is good but its literally his only good approach so it easily gets scouted and baited against anyone with some experience.