Project M Social Thread

[JCaesar]

That's already done.

 

[Sterowent]

the STREAM!

where does it hide?

 

[I R MarF]

I actually wanted to chime in an idea for King Dedede. One problem I noticed with him is that he's too slow to compete, at least from the streams. Characters have no problems approaching his space. One idea I had was to use the idea they used for Brawl Minus, and give the Waddle Dee & Doos their own hit boxes. This would help prevent characters from basically entering in and out of his range at free will, and would force them to navigate around the Waddle's, setting up for other options.

I'm just throwing out random ideas here. Dedede seems like he needs work, but I could be mistaken here.

I actually think DDD has a lot more advantages than he needs. I say that because he has amazing attack + grab range, a lot of power, and if he remains a fastfaller and a super heavyweight... he will probably take C. Falcon's spot as the most difficult character to vertical KO.

If any character needs speeding up... i'd say Link.

BTW, I think you guys should like start at the top tier characters, and then work your way down.

Eh, a bit too late now but that would have been sick since the hype would gradually rise as people would want to see what lower tiers would get for changes.

 

[JCaesar]

Link is totally legit. Trust me.

We decided not to do a stream because it sounded like both Handorin and Sneak were gonna have one. We're at a bonfire.

 

[Sterowent]

then it rests on them. i thought that too, but hopefully it's not one of those O'Henry types of ordeals...

DDD is so immobile it freaks me out a bit as to how he could possibly fight a spacie. think of ganon vs. fox, yeah? lazer camping > run away > read approach > kill/gimp/DA+usmash. not quite this simple, but DDD will deal with this many a time, and what's he got to compensate with?

 

[I R MarF]

Link is totally legit. Trust me.

Nice, my friend who is a link main will love to hear this.

then it rests on them. i thought that too, but hopefully it's not one of those O'Henry types of ordeals...

DDD is so immobile it freaks me out a bit as to how he could possibly fight a spacie. think of ganon vs. fox, yeah? lazer camping > run away > read approach > kill/gimp/DA+usmash. not quite this simple, but DDD will deal with this many a time, and what's he got to compensate with?

I could see some of DDD's attacks being sped up like Ike's... but aside from tha there isn't too much to fix; most of his attacks have great reach.

His grab range also might be able to give him a chain grab on spacies. I can't say for sure though.

 

[ClinkStryphart]

I actually have a question also about DDD I know in B+5.0 RC1 he could randomly pull out a capsule what came out of it was a surprise but just wondering if hes gonna have that in P:M. Figured i'd ask. Also I would love it if he had his quake hammer back but make it actually be sensible.

 

[Deleted member]

I actually have a question also about DDD I know in B+5.0 RC1 he could randomly pull out a capsule what came out of it was a surprise but just wondering if hes gonna have that in this version or not. Figured i'd ask.

Lol. What the ****? Is that legit?

That makes no sense to his relation in the Kirby games unless I'm missing something.

 

[shanus]

Lol. What the ****? Is that legit?

That makes no sense to his relation in the Kirby games unless I'm missing something.

thats in brawl too, its like peach's chance to pull a beam sword when pulling a turnip

 

[TLMSheikant]

no stream tonight?

 

[Krautrock]

I actually have a question also about DDD I know in B+5.0 RC1 he could randomly pull out a capsule what came out of it was a surprise but just wondering if hes gonna have that in P:M.

I hope not - I'm pretty opposed to any implementation of chance in a competitive fighting game. See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRHtVzhVme8#t=1m8s
Random stitchface pull drastically alters the game. Pretty whack.

 

[Revven]

thats in brawl too, its like peach's chance to pull a beam sword when pulling a turnip

...except for DDD's you need to have items on, so make sure when you're playing Brawl in general to have that switch set to "All off" (which would make it say "All on"), just have all the items off and you're good to go.

 

[pwned-by-the-poob]

Just in case u didn't know, samus' swd is messed up. if u try back to back swd, you go flying across the stage during the second bomb animation. i don't know if this is due to samus' bombs not momentum cancelling as much as melee, or just a bug with the momentum staying with the swd.
Also even if it wasn't the first thing i said, samus shouldn't have as much horizontal momentum during her down b anyways. it makes it much harder to bomb jump, and it's already hard enough with faster falling during it. Idk why but bomb jumping just doesn't feel/seem right in P:M. And yes i did main samus in melee.

This might just be me too but the timing for swd seems a bit off as well.

 

[Archangel]

I hope not - I'm pretty opposed to any implementation of chance in a competitive fighting game. See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRHtVzhVme8#t=1m8s
Random stitchface pull drastically alters the game. Pretty whack.

Peach's stitchface still didn't alter the set as much as resting did.... Without a Chance to pull out a Stitchface, That other semi powerful turnip, bombs, or beamswords. Is probably enough to knock her down a place or two. It's not THAT big a help because there is a small chance to get it anyway. Besides if you take out chances you also have to change some other things. Like Luigi's chance to misfire or make Olimar pull out the same pikman all the time.

I think the litte bits of unpredictability deepens the game. Thats just my opinion though.

As for DDD. I hope he gets some kind of tweak to make him able to fight spacies. Maybe drastically increase his waddle dee throw speed so he could use them to block lasers

seriously though just make sure he has some CG's and Auto combo's on them like everyone else and he'll be alright. I do believe some of his aerials could use some speed increasing though.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Is Dedede still tied for the best grab range in the game? Or has Marth reclaimed that particular title?

 

[xDD-Master]

DDD should be the ultimate Grab Character.

Dthrow - 10% - Set Knockback (Free Tech Chase)
Upthrow - 15% - Kills about 150%
Fthrow - 20% - Kills about 120%
Bthrow - 20% - Kills about 120%

Is Dedede still tied for the best grab range in the game? Or has Marth reclaimed that particular title?

DDD should have a better range (And maybe speed) than Marth.


Edit: Oh Idea: Make the Lag of his Up-B L-cancelable ^^

 

[JCaesar]

This might just be me too but the timing for swd seems a bit off as well.

It's identical to Melee.

Is Dedede still tied for the best grab range in the game? Or has Marth reclaimed that particular title?

Marth is below DDD and Charizard.

 

[TLMSheikant]

DDD should be the ultimate Grab Character.

Dthrow - 10% - Set Knockback (Free Tech Chase)
Upthrow - 15% - Kills about 150%
Fthrow - 20% - Kills about 120%
Bthrow - 20% - Kills about 120%



DDD should have a better range (And maybe speed)


Edit: Oh Idea: Make the Lag of his Up-B L-cancelable ^^

This aint brawl minus...just saying.

 

[I R MarF]

DDD should be the ultimate Grab Character.

Dthrow - 10% - Set Knockback (Free Tech Chase)
Upthrow - 15% - Kills about 150%
Fthrow - 20% - Kills about 120%
Bthrow - 20% - Kills about 120%



DDD should have a better range (And maybe speed)


Edit: Oh Idea: Make the Lag of his Up-B L-cancelable ^^

I agree with you that DDD should be the ultimate grab character... but those percentages are a bit too high.

Many would agree that Marth's melee grab range was broken, but his throws certainly werent and since DDD's grab range is bigger than his that makes these damage percentages absurdly cheap. Especially considering that DDD has plenty of other kill moves.

So, imo, your projected damage percentages should be lowered, and perhaps some of those kill percentages should be raised. Maybe like this.

Dthrow-8% (maybe set knockback like you said, idk though)
Uthrow-10% kills as 160%
Fthrow- 12% kills at 150%
bthrow-14% kills at 140%

Oh, and about DDD's range, it has been confirmed to be better.

and for your last suggestion, if that is the case, everyone's recovery should be l-cancelable

 

[xDD-Master]

Dthrow-8% (maybe set knockback like you said, idk though)
Uthrow-10% kills as 160%
Fthrow- 12% kills at 150%
bthrow-14% kills at 140%

Sounds good to me as well ^^
It should just be that DDD is all about Grabs :D
May sounds boring to some, but to me this is very fun, since I liek teh Grabz Grab-Mindgames all dai :D

And yeah, sounds cool if every Up-B would be L-Cancelable, maybe even some side-bs (Fox, Falco, Wolf for example)? And maybe some other Landing-Lags as well (ICs when they land with Neutral B, Yoshi/Bowser Down-B etc.).

It could be possible to increase the lag, when not canceled compared to now, so when canceled it would be a bit quicker than now, this would balance it out I think.

 

[a nub]

L cancelling up bs? The hell are you guys talking about lulz

 

[pwned-by-the-poob]

It's identical to Melee.

How do you know for sure? Is it just because that's what the stats say? If that's the case, the stats also say fox's jump comes out as soon as it did in melee, but when u wavedash in melee with fox you can air dodge instantly after you jump. that's not the case for p:m. This might be due to something else like landing detection or whatever, but i think it's something that should be looked at.

 

[shanus]

How do you know for sure? Is it just because that's what the stats say? If that's the case, the stats also say fox's jump comes out as soon as it did in melee, but when u wavedash in melee with fox you can air dodge instantly after you jump. that's not the case for p:m. This might be due to something else like landing detection or whatever, but i think it's something that should be looked at.

There is a definite difference. Your skepticism here is completely irrational due to the fact that:

Wavedashing with fox in PM can land on the exact same frame as melee but feels *easier* as imperfect wavedashing lands earlier due to easier landing detection. This means for non-precise wavedashes your actually faster as fox in PM than in melee reversing your judgement completely.

This does not apply to SWD.

As samus, use frame advance, start down B. Hit left at frame 41 (you are on ground) and hit right at frame 42. Bam, SWD. The main difference here is that your animation might not have that little bounce to her downB so that your queue as to when to hit the joystick isn't identical to melee. However, the timing is identical.

 

[JCaesar]

ninja'd by Shanus

 

[pwned-by-the-poob]

There is a definite difference. Your skepticism here is completely irrational due to the fact that:

Wavedashing with fox in PM can land on the exact same frame as melee but feels *easier* as imperfect wavedashing lands earlier due to easier landing detection.

This does not apply to SWD.

As samus, use frame advance, start down B. Hit left at frame 41 (you are on ground) and hit right at frame 42. Bam, SWD. The main difference here is that your animation might not have that little bounce to her downB so that your queue as to when to hit the joystick isn't identical to melee. However, the timing is identical.

Alright that makes sense for the swd. once you hit the ground, the timing is the same. but u hit the ground at a different time than melee, right?

As for fox, I don't really get what you mean. However, when u get the chance try playing melee and air dodge immediately after u press jump. try it a few times, then try that in p:m. It doesn't work.

 

[JCaesar]

Alright that makes sense for the swd. once you hit the ground, the timing is the same. but u hit the ground at a different time than melee, right?

No, the timing is exactly the same as Melee from the moment you press down-B.

 

[pwned-by-the-poob]

No, the timing is exactly the same as Melee from the moment you press down-B.

Oh... alright then the slower falling during down-b must mess me up then. That simple. XD

 

[shanus]

Oh... alright then the slower falling during down-b must mess me up then. That simple. XD

watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9uEVcJdeJ4&feature=related

while doing frame by frame movement with samus

The difference is very subtle, and only animation difference is around frame 36 or 37 when that bounce occurs on the ground which is a good visible sign of when to hit left/right

 

[pwned-by-the-poob]

Yea i understand. Well did u read what i said yesterday about samus' bombs and swd etc.? Minus that fact that i say the timing is different...

 

[pwned-by-the-poob]

Well i'm gonna ask all the questions and such that i have, based on when i played yesterday with Orca. Sorry for spamming. lol

1. Is snake keeping that up-tilt? it's insane. Also is his c4 SUPPOSED to not go off when u hold down? i'm guessing yes
2. Charizard has a flame cancel glitch where he slides backwards as he lands. However, i think this should stay, but give it to bowser too. Just have him not slide back as far. The reason i think it should stay is because flame cancelling isn't even that good in the first place so that would make it better.
3. What do u mean when u say u can interrupt sonic's homing attack with an aerial? i tried it and nothing happens.
Lastly are shinebairs still possible with fox? because i tried it a few times and couldn't do it.

 

[shanus]

Well i'm gonna ask all the questions and such that i have, based on when i played yesterday with Orca. Sorry for spamming. lol

1. Is snake keeping that up-tilt? it's insane. Also is his c4 SUPPOSED to not go off when u hold down? i'm guessing yes
2. Charizard has a flame cancel glitch where he slides backwards as he lands. However, i think this should stay, but give it to bowser too. Just have him not slide back as far. The reason i think it should stay is because flame cancelling isn't even that good in the first place so that would make it better.
3. What do u mean when u say u can interrupt sonic's homing attack with an aerial? i tried it and nothing happens.
Lastly are shinebairs still possible with fox? because i tried it a few times and couldn't do it.

1. please stop asking about BR builds and glitches on here because we know them all, snakes stuff is all WIP and not disclosed to the public yet

2. see 1, we know...

3. on hit, you can IASA with specials aside from another HA

4. yes shine bairs are possible, still require just as fast hands as before

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

3. on hit, you can IASA with specials aside from another HA

Plus, if they kept the "jump after hit" in there, you'd be able to do a second homing attack if you're quick with your fingers. :3

 

[shanus]

Plus, if they kept the "jump after hit" in there, you'd be able to do a second homing attack if you're quick with your fingers. :3

yes, forgot to highlight JC on hit as well. This is only on hit of a person, not on stage

 

[Deleted member]

Will DK's up-b be more mobile when used on stage (out of shield for example) similar to Bowser's fortress? It'd be decent as an OoS retreat option, relieve pressure, and to edgehog.

Also, doesn't it have heavy armor upon start up frames?

 

[Revven]

DK's Up b goes backwards, has the strong hit like in Melee, and has Super Armor on the startup frames (at least on Brawl and Brawl+ it does, not sure if they've gotten rid of it). However, right now (from what I've seen of streams) it's not 100% perfected yet, it's buggy a bit as when you go from the ground to the air (like Up B off the stage) the game freezes. So it's still WIP obv.

 

[Sneak8288]

Sorry for no stream yesterday... A girl asked me to go to the movies. A$$ before smash. But i will be streaming in a few minutes tho. Look for an edit in the post for the link

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/projectmsneak

 

[Magus420]

Do you touch the ground at the same time when bombing from the floor? SWDing when bombing from the air or with a metal box is a lot harder despite the timing being the same since normally it's basically right as you touch the ground which makes it a lot more doable.

 

[L/A/W]

l cancelled recoveries is fail, don't do it guys

 

[OrlyMelee]

can samus get a melee morphball animation so it does get that little hop at frame 36/37?
I assume morphball animation isnt that hard to animate if not nevermind.

when the most important stuff is done afcourse

 

[shanus]

Do you touch the ground at the same time when bombing from the floor? SWDing when bombing from the air or with a metal box is a lot harder despite the timing being the same since normally it's basically right as you touch the ground which makes it a lot more doable.

Im not anywhere near a tv, but l believe it lands on the same frame but i need to check