Project M Social Thread

[9Kplus1]

Craq walking? That was in vBrawl as well. Honestly, though, with the friction increase, and amount of characters that can crawl, I don't see any usable applications of it.

I'm assuming that the change in physics has had a negative and certainly noticeable effect on Crawldashing. The distance that it gives in vBrawl is just 'enough' to space Luigi for an Ftilt poke, Dsmash, or Powershield. That's great for his Melee counterpart, granted, but I'm a bit skeptical of its overall utility to Luigi when compared to his wavedash, due to the increase in friction.

I dunno if you're thinking about the same thing. In vBrawl you can't crouch out of run, so you could only get the little slide right as you landed. Or during walk I suppose, but I dunno how useful that would be.

The tech seems to have something to do with momentum; in vBrawl, it could be done out of a walk or when landing. Obviously the distances would be different, but the set up itself and result are the same -- sliding in the direction which the crawl had been initiated. Then again, because I'm comparing two different variants of Brawl, it's likely that I'm wrong.

 

[Vigilante]

Flash decided to crash, be back in a few.

Edit: I'm done, I was testing stuff for Jiang and figure I might as well stream training for a bit and answer questions, but now, got to go meet a pal.

Edit 2: ASDRFHJH... Big update. At least it means we've gotten a lot done.

 

[hotdogturtle]

Over the 2 year span that Project M has started, I've watched the progress on Snake(my chosen main) and he's received some considerable buffs. The streams also provided me with enough intel to determine the positive side of his improvements, while a few of my friends only see the negative(and continue to) in Snake. They think he's broken already because of he has a new up B protection, faster mine placement, fast tilts, and deadly aerials. They think he's broken because he's well...Snake! and still has all of his gadgets. Can anyone explain why Snake is or is not broken to me or to the thread, just in case my friends are reading?

He doesn't have Brawl utilt anymore. Therefore not broken.

 

[Shadic]

No Brawl Uptilt, his hitboxes actually make sense in general now. His tilts aren't as deadly, people can actually combo now, he weighs less, his UpB doesn't go as far as it used to, can only throw one grenade, etc.

He's had plenty of tweaks. Both in the "nerf" and "buff" direction.

 

[UltiMario]

At least he's finally getting the buffs he needs

He was such trash in the demo LOL

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Better than Lucas was in the demo at least.

Grabbing the bat with aerials in HRC really sucks, like Lickitung's base attack.

 

[`dazrin]

from playing the demo with my friends, i found that snake was extremely campy in the demo... might've been just the player playing him, but it seems like he would just:
A) jab combo -> side b over and over again
B) ftilt ->side b over and over again
C) nade spam

 

[9Kplus1]

Lickitung can OHKO 0/0 LO Scraggy with Hammer Arm

Are you implying that the HR bat dominates children?

 

[Anth0ny]

Random thought of the day:

Meta Knight is pretty fun to play as in Brawl (camping aside). Even M2K himself has claimed he plays like a Melee character, which is why he is so attached to the character.

So I was thinking, maybe it would be cool to keep his moveset and feel identical to his Brawl incarnation. I haven't been following the project TOO much, but last I remember, you guys increased his weight so that he was a fast faller. That's an interesting idea, but it makes playing him feel really weird. He's obviously meant to be a floaty, as he's a puffball. It looked like he was fighting against gravity with every jump, lol

Of course, there has to be a catch: Make him Dark Phoenix. A glass cannon. The project has taken ideas from fighting games already (super-armor-all-day Bowser, Lucaryu), and I think it would be really cool to have this broken character that has a **** ton of tools, is super fast, tons of jumps, has a great recovery... but dies at 60%. Wanna use the banned-tier character? Gotta take the risk.

Not sure if it's entirely feasible, but just wanted to throw it out there.

 

[Cubelarooso]

Apologies, Monk.

In penance, an actual contribution,

[collapse=Rollimar]Where did it all go?
[/collapse]

Alsolimar, a sex kick. His vBrawl Nair looks ridiculous, and a sex kick would help ground him as Melee-esque, even with whatever unique mechanic he may end up with.

 

[MonkUnit]

Please refrain from linking things that are not about Project M. While the videos and other links may be funny, informative, etc. they do not belong in this thread as they do not relate to Project M.

 

[Vigilante]

The current Snake is less campy simply because his close combat options have been improved. He has a decent F-smash, some attacks have less KB, but combo better, etc... It's not that he'll never be found camping, but he doesn't "have to" anymore to survive.

I consider him a midrange fighter. He will give you hell if you don't get close fast.

 

[`dazrin]

sounds good. demo1 snake was soo annoying to play against

 

[Vigilante]

I thiink the biggest problem plaguing Snake before was actually that all of his moves were kill moves and few comboed. Like... I'm one f the few Falcos that use F-air at times because I like the fact that its KB is low. Sometimes, you don't want to hit them hard. You sometimes just want to put them where you want them to be. Also, comboable moves allow you to rack up some damage faster than if every hit gets the opponent off range.

Snake pretty much had none of those in the demo.

I like to pick Snake VS Sonic. An annoying "Dash attack all day" Sonic can be punished so easily by just taking out a grenade and rolling, XD. It's the best way to teach a Sonic player to stop playing stupid and use more inputs, XD.

 

[MaxThunder]

I just did. If anyone legitimately wants it, I'll upload it to Youtube.

you able to record that in good quality?... cause then i could add music and the melee marth boards would have a theme song...

 

[ValTroX]

Over the 2 year span that Project M has started, I've watched the progress on Snake(my chosen main) and he's received some considerable buffs. The streams also provided me with enough intel to determine the positive side of his improvements, while a few of my friends only see the negative(and continue to) in Snake. They think he's broken already because of he has a new up B protection, faster mine placement, fast tilts, and deadly aerials. They think he's broken because he's well...Snake! and still has all of his gadgets. Can anyone explain why Snake is or is not broken to me or to the thread, just in case my friends are reading?

He's not broken at all, space animals exist in melee, and they are deadly...

 

[Archangel]

one thing about melee or melee physics in general is that even if one or a group of characters are better overall it's still hard to call them broken.

 

[Xebenkeck]

There are certain things in smash that create imbalance that really shouldnt like, shields, spotdodges and rolls/tech rolls. Them being different adds a certain imblance to the characters that aren't needed. Everyone should have universal spotdodges and rolls that are identical in terms of safety, timing, frames and protection. Samus's rolls lol, DDD spotdodge 2 frames of punishment wtf, falcons tech, G&W shield, etc.

Also there is no rhyme of reason to the imbalances either, it's not like lighter faster characters have fast rolls, or heavy characters have slow rolls, it is quite random who recieves these random benefits/detriments. Link, Falco DDD have the best spot dodges in Brawl, are these 3 characters related in any way? No.

Also i refferring to smash in general, i'm not saying Project M should implement it.

 

[GHNeko]

Those aspects create imbalances, yeah, and as a result they can be used to balance characters in various ways.

Want a glass canon who has amazing offense, and bad defense? then nerf his defensive options, not his recovery, and then give him good offense. if he has bad rolls, tech rolls, spot dodges, and shields, even if his recovery is okay, getting hit will still leave him in bad situations on a regular basis.

it's a type of balancing tool.

like how in traditional fighters, characters with an abundance of multihit moves suffer from damage scaling more than characters who have many single hit moves. or how some characters have low HP to offset their high offensive capabilities vs characters who have high HP to offset their huge size/huge hurtboxes and inherent weakness to instant overheads.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Hmmm... Link, Falco, and Dedede... All grounded, fairly defensive characters in Brawl... Nah, I don't see any similarities there. Now Peach would be a good example. Arbitrarily having 10 less frames of invincibility on her air dodge.

If there's one thing I have to give Sakurai, it's that he did put at least some thought into his character designs. Not a whole lot, but some.

 

[GHNeko]

I'm not sakurai, but I can be fairly certain the idea behind Peach's Airdodge having 10 less frames is backed by her ability to float which can be used as a tool to stall and escape opponents. While everyone else has to constantly fall unless they've used their double jump, in which they can stop falling for a second or two, before resuming falling again, and multi-jumpers who lose height each consecutive multi-jump, he probably felt that peach being able to float without using a second jump, and keep a steady altitude for a long period of time and still be able to double jump and airdodge afterwards was the reason for him making her airdodge worse, as a sort of balance. This is what i imagined to be going through sakurai's mind.

#nekolikestoanalyzefightinggamesdesigns

 

[Juushichi]

That's a good way to look at it, Neko.

I'm a bit surprised you didn't mention the stun limits (and how much stun a character gives, like AE and 2012 Sakura for instance) in the Street Fighter 4 line. It seems like a lot of attention was paid to that as well.

 

[Vigilante]

I don't agree with making all dodges the sames. It's part of the balance. For example, we have a character that currently has a bad shield because he is meant to be really good at offense and bad at defense. If we start to make everything the same for all characters, they will lose their individuality.

 

[GHNeko]

That's a good way to look at it, Neko.

I'm a bit surprised you didn't mention the stun limits (and how much stun a character gives, like AE and 2012 Sakura for instance) in the Street Fighter 4 line. It seems like a lot of attention was paid to that as well.

didnt feel like I needed to add it since I already made my point. :V

And I also have a good idea as to why Z-Canceling was made and why it was kept in melee. V:

I don't agree with making all dodges the sames. It's part of the balance. For example, we have a character that currently has a bad shield because he is meant to be really good at offense and bad at defense. If we start to make everything the same for all characters, they will lose their individuality.

And their weaknesses.

It's really is less about homogeneity, and more about balance though.

 

[Juushichi]

Why do you think Z-canceling is in, then?

 

[GHNeko]

Why do you think Z-canceling is in, then?

I think Z-Canceling, based of Sakurai's mentality, was included to allow players to shield easier to keep them safe/reduce the probability of punishment from the opposing player. It was probably a way to hold hands for misspacing. If you could shield immediately after landing, you're essentially covering up your mistake.

That's what I think the intention of Z-Canceling is. And is the same reasoning to keep L-Canceling it, except rather than canceling lag, he opted to reduce it because he thought it was too strong in 64.

 

[Ecks]

In some old smash 64 blogpost somebody linked a long time ago, IIRC, sakurai explains that it's meant to leave you "ready for action" in case you were to miss an attack. I guess he didn't consider the broken possibilities if you didn't miss.

 

[GHNeko]

 

[GHNeko]

I didnt know he explained that in a blog post tho. So I'm actually kinda happy that i was relatively close. loool.

 

[metroid1117]

Those aspects create imbalances, yeah, and as a result they can be used to balance characters in various ways.

Want a glass canon who has amazing offense, and bad defense? then nerf his defensive options, not his recovery, and then give him good offense. if he has bad rolls, tech rolls, spot dodges, and shields, even if his recovery is okay, getting hit will still leave him in bad situations on a regular basis.

it's a type of balancing tool.

Speaking of teching frame data, what have you guys done with Pikachu? His bad tech rolls were compensated by a standing tech that only had two frames of vulnerability, but I'd personally let him use all three tech options while making his standing tech match the other characters (6 frames of vulnerability).

By the way, if anyone hasn't seen Magus' thread for teching and getups, I highly recommend it; it's very interesting to see the actual frame data for such important options.

 

[Ecks]

It was a site for smash 64 or something, I'm not sure.

I nominate Neko for double poster of the decade (2010-2020).

 

[GHNeko]

never have given a ****

 

[GHNeko]

never will.

get at me.

 

[kaizo13]

i want this in my project M :>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t8KM9BLxR0&feature=g-u-u&context=G23fc500FUAAAAAAADAA

 

[GHNeko]

>melee bf

LOL

nope.avi

there are 2 reasons why i dont play lylat.

melee bf is one of them.

 

[kaizo13]

lol gtfo....u don't even play spacies

get good

Edit: and Lylat would be fine if it didn't sway/slant

 

[GHNeko]

me playing spacies is irrelevant.

melee bf ledges are far worse than P:M BF ledges.

get that **** out of here.

lylat would be better than fine if the ledges weren't melee bf ledges.

 

[kaizo13]

lol why u so scared tho?

scared your zss tether won't be so derp-eezy and actually take some spacing/positioning?

 

[Rikana]

I see no problem with adding Melee BF. Its a nice addition regardless. I'd still play on it.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Just swap the model and textures so that Melee Battlefield has all the priorities and ledges of P:M Battlefield.

You get a good stage and a better looking one.

Problem solved.