Project M Social Thread

[GP&B]

>He has a version of P:M that we don't have
>He's bragged about said leak
>He tried to troll the PMBR by applying for the position of a playtester
>He must suffer our internet hate

legit.

This, but I'll second kaizo.

 

[MonkUnit]

Pit's uair sorta works like link/yl uair. Best comparison I can think of

I dont remeber doing any multihits with uair

 

[felipe_9595]

>He has a version of P:M that we don't have
>He's bragged about said leak
>He tried to troll the PMBR by applying for the position of a playtester
>He must suffer our internet hate

legit. Who cares if he's an *******? Welcome to the internet. Sometimes, we're going to encounter people who we don't like at all. It's not like said person has a time machine and is conceiving us as we sit here, defenseless. Add him to your ignore list lol

You know that happened in december 2010 dont you??? Over a year have passed, get over it.

 

[9Kplus1]

back to stage discussion >_>

 

[MonkUnit]

Let's not discuss this issue any further, please.

 

[CORY]

what if you changed pit's upb animation to look sort of like his taunt where he points his daggers above him (don't remember which direction it's in...). as it stands now, it looks like he should either reflect the stuff above him and that the move should work as a super counter hit; or that he should have some invincibility frames when it starts up. that shield going up above him just throws a very defensive oriented move out in my head.

speaking of his shield: was it changed or anything? i saw ness just straight up hit through it a couple times when it looked like the shield should've stopped the attacks.

 

[MonkUnit]

I think ness hit me during my shield startup

It's be cool if upB deflected stuff like grounded did though :D

Oh and mirror has armor just like brawl mirror did. Like 2 frames of armor or something. That's how I absorbed a fully charged samus blast on stream

 

[GHNeko]

if you wanted to know why onett was banned, why didn't you just ask the people that banned it? why would you just assume it was banned for reasons XYZ when you were never a part of that argument?

please enlighten me

stage system will probably work well with groups, but the grouping and number of could use a lot of experimentation before anyone tries to project any finalities.
I like FD as a neutral in melee, but it may work better as a CP in PM seeing as there are other, more neutral minded stages available (not that I can tell very well without even demo 2 to experiment with *coughcough*)
Lyat is a great CP. Not too much of a reason to ban it, at least not yet.
Keeping Onett as a CP seems a little bit like keeping a worse/weird Peach's castle legal, only with faster bullet bills and 2 stupid humps. Talk about encouraging camping...

Lylat is CP/Banned. It's only banned in SoVa beacuse no one likes the stage LOL.

 

[Mattnumbers]

Honestly I think Lylat isn't even CP/Banned and is just a solid CP. I suppose in P:M it could be CP/Banned but only because there are so many other viable stages.

 

[JOE!]

speaking of his shield: was it changed or anything?

Yes

Spoiler

 

[9Kplus1]

Fun fact: Salt brightens and clears mirrors.

 

[Vigilante]

Salt?

http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/9690/salty.png

And Lylat is legit. You can tell in advance when it's going to shift.

 

[9Kplus1]

The salt is a lie, obviously.

 

[Kink-Link5]

The saturation levels on that texture are nice Joe. Was it just a simple value shift or did you actually manually recolour him?

 

[GHNeko]

I was going to write up my own version of neko's grouping list, but I wanted to know what his reasoning was for the grouping before I go and suggest any changes.

Group 1 = starters
Group 2 = semi-starters (stages that are better off as cp, but can be starters)
Group 3 = large stages
Group 4 = extreme stages

:: Tapatalk Android App

 

[Deleted member]

onett was banned like green greens because it became fox/falco playground.

lylat is hella annoying. knowing "the stage is going to shift" doesn't mean you're in a good position to do something about it so you can get screwed because you got edge guarded at some moment that wasn't 5 seconds before/after.

the BBR does enough arguments like "you know when the cars are coming" for port town and stupid **** like that. don't push brawl **** onto your players. we're playing your hacked game because brawl sucks.

 

[Juushichi]

Indeed, Umbreon is right.

Don't push brawl ideologies, tactics, abilities or anything into this Brawl Hack that is meant mostly to combine the things that were useful from every smash game including Brawl into a Melee-esque environment. Everything even remotely alluding to Brawl is absolutely unacceptable because Brawl sucks and is completely irredeemably awful.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I agree with the above sarcastic comment.

 

[MrGame&Rock]

Quick question I had while looking through changes to the air dodge... if characters go into their special fall afterward, what are you planning to do with ROB? The game freezes if you force a special fall onto him. I'm curious to see how you plan to work around this.

Also, considering your work on balancing the cast, would it be appropriate to call this game "Balanced Melee" or "Melee 2: With Balance" or "Melee Meets Balanced Brawl"? Don't take this the wrong way; the work you're doing on balancing the cast is AWESOME and makes me sad that I'm not even close to a decent Melee player...

 

[standardtoaster]

We have already given ROB and ZSS special fall animations. They don't freeze at all now. They probably will in the demo if you try to do some of the events with them in it, though because they don't have special fall animations.

 

[MonkUnit]

yeahhh

 

[OmegaMuffin]

yeahhh

I knew this was the plan from the beginning. Good **** PMBR.

 

[CORY]

good to know that olimar has been solved.

 

[9Kplus1]

**** college, I want to play as Pikman for a living.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Aye, Captain!

 

[Xebenkeck]

@IIRC from demo 1 the only things that caused a freeze were ROB/ZSS airdodging and Spikes. I think you guys said you figured out spikes and ROB/ZSS airdodges are obviously solved.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Spikes still freeze I thought.

 

[Ecks]

Man that Pikman made my day!

Who says individual pikmen is a bad idea? LOL

Edit: I'm pretty sure spikes are fixed.

 

[9Kplus1]

That question has been brought up on multiple occasions, and we've gotten the same answer. So, it's safe to assume that "Freeze when landing near spikes" was definitely fixed.

Btw Monk loves my avatar

 

[Yeroc]

All of those issues have been resolved.

 

[Deleted member]

Don't push brawl ideologies, tactics, abilities or anything into this Brawl Hack that is meant mostly to combine the things that were useful from every smash game including Brawl into a Melee-esque environment. Everything even remotely alluding to Brawl is absolutely unacceptable because Brawl sucks and is completely irredeemably awful.

Ironic that you're being condescending at me while using a juvenile tactic of blowing something out of proportion.

Whatever. Back to the relevant portion of the topic. You can tell people "the stage is going to behave this way!" but it's more or less a standard of the community that the stage should only have some minimal interaction with the players. The vast majority of players that I've met and talked to in my modest 9 years of playing smash competitively share my view that the player should focus only on fighting the opponent and not the stage as well. If you're making a hacked game, you are basically saying by default, "we are making this change because we want to cater to our player base" but then we have 6-8 hour legion streams where we'll play lylat....once? maybe twice? and then we turn it off of random because it's a stupid stage. We do not want to play it.

Why would you shoot yourself in the foot on that front? Again, you are basically making this game. It's not 100% original, but it looks sounds and plays the way you want it to. Putting in work and effort to oppose the audience you're specifically catering to is a waste of your time and makes you look quite foolish defending it.

If you wanted to use your time better, make more stages like the new Hyrule. New and interesting stages with new positional dynamics is much more interesting than old stages with hazards that both players must negotiate.

 

[jalued]

Ironic that you're being condescending at me while using a juvenile tactic of blowing something out of proportion.

Whatever. Back to the relevant portion of the topic. You can tell people "the stage is going to behave this way!" but it's more or less a standard of the community that the stage should only have some minimal interaction with the players. The vast majority of players that I've met and talked to in my modest 9 years of playing smash competitively share my view that the player should focus only on fighting the opponent and not the stage as well. If you're making a hacked game, you are basically saying by default, "we are making this change because we want to cater to our player base" but then we have 6-8 hour legion streams where we'll play lylat....once? maybe twice? and then we turn it off of random because it's a stupid stage. We do not want to play it.

Why would you shoot yourself in the foot on that front? Again, you are basically making this game. It's not 100% original, but it looks sounds and plays the way you want it to. Putting in work and effort to oppose the audience you're specifically catering to is a waste of your time and makes you look quite foolish defending it.

If you wanted to use your time better, make more stages like the new Hyrule. New and interesting stages with new positional dynamics is much more interesting than old stages with hazards that both players must negotiate.

If lylat didnt sway then i feel it would be a decent stage to counterpick against spacies because of the small edges(since melee BF will not be returning)

 

[Deleted member]

If lylat didnt sway then i feel it would be a decent stage to counterpick against spacies because of the small edges(since melee BF will not be returning)

if lylat didn't sway it would still be a very strong counterpick against characters that can't apply downward angled attacks for ledge pressure and a very strong CP option for the opposite. for example, sheik/mario/etc downsmash would be substantially better towards the edges than would say marth's sword (most attacks start high and end low) or luigi's dsmash (doesn't set up positional advantage even if it hits) or falco (mostly aerial approaches forces a high hit on opponnts shield), etc.

the swaying just basically randomly punishes you for having a learned pattern in your brain to perfectly sweetspot. but only sometimes. yeah, really valuable.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

Heeey guys, just reminding yall to send this survey out to your friends so we can get everyone's name on record that wants to try the game out.

take the survey plz

 

[MaxThunder]

yeahhh

woah... that thing is awezome... i want one... i could have it in a cage and feed it ducks...

 

[Kink-Link5]

If lylat didnt sway then i feel it would be a decent stage to counterpick against spacies because of the small edges(since melee BF will not be returning)

Fox personally loves small edges since it means he can recover backwards and still downward sweetspot while his opponents can no longer wall hug. Don't know about Falco though.

The type of edges Fox hates are like, Dreamland. Medium sized, but blocky. They force him to have more limited recovery angles since he can hardly recover backwards and can't really wall hug on them.

 

[Juushichi]

Ironic that you're being condescending at me while using a juvenile tactic of blowing something out of proportion.

Whatever. Back to the relevant portion of the topic. You can tell people "the stage is going to behave this way!" but it's more or less a standard of the community that the stage should only have some minimal interaction with the players. The vast majority of players that I've met and talked to in my modest 9 years of playing smash competitively share my view that the player should focus only on fighting the opponent and not the stage as well. If you're making a hacked game, you are basically saying by default, "we are making this change because we want to cater to our player base" but then we have 6-8 hour legion streams where we'll play lylat....once? maybe twice? and then we turn it off of random because it's a stupid stage. We do not want to play it.

Why would you shoot yourself in the foot on that front? Again, you are basically making this game. It's not 100% original, but it looks sounds and plays the way you want it to. Putting in work and effort to oppose the audience you're specifically catering to is a waste of your time and makes you look quite foolish defending it.

If you wanted to use your time better, make more stages like the new Hyrule. New and interesting stages with new positional dynamics is much more interesting than old stages with hazards that both players must negotiate.

Indeed it's ironic for me to point out something I saw as juvenile in a way that also is the same. Since you've gone out of the "this sucks", "brawl sucks", "the BBR is a joke, hah!" sharp and short post style, it's a lot easier for me to respond to you at the same level you're now on. What I did with my last post was successful. Go figure. But that's water under the bridge now.

There are a couple ways that I look at the body of the above and it's admittedly kind of hard to figure out where I should start. I don't expressly disagree with how you feel as even in my meager three years of competitive smash (though, the feeling of PvP > PvPvS extends even down to semi-competitive and casual play) has had me meet plenty of people who feel the same way. On one hand I see smash as a medium who has players that can still adapt to things as comparatively (to other things we've had to deal with in the past, mind you) minor to something like stage tilting screwing up or helping a recovery and have been for as long as the series has been around and ideally I believe that keeping those elements is something that we as players should do. My experience as a Brawl player from the Midwest has shown me that our players can still be successful in doing so (via Shu.go, K-ain, L@in and other great players).

But on the other hand, we have this body of players that the team is trying to snag which will likely consist of mid-to-low-high levels of Melee players and the people who have fallen through the cracks of every game that I feel still carries the view that the Legion scene has. And the spirit of competitive Smash which has seen it's stage lists shrink down toward the TFG-esque avenue of "pure PvP" as a means to show who is the best.

Ideally for me, I think you have to have all of those types of stages in ,regardless of preference in order to cater to everyone who is going to play your game. There are people who are going to play this game for fun and casually who may play with the proposed competitive stage list and vice-versa. Either way it's a powerful tool (I mean, I think having a recommended list from the people who made and tested the game would be) that will dictate a lot of the early metagame. At least give the opportunity.

For the record, I do agree with you in terms of having more stages like Hyrule 64 that emphasize positional advantages.

****, this was a long post. Just my sort-of-fragmented thoughts.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I'm going on the record as saying Lylat's edges are worse than Hanonbows. At least those ones are controllable.

 

[9Kplus1]

Less stages is so much better.

I'll take my BF / YI / FD / DL over a mammoth list of stages being shoved down my ****. Let's just ban all of the vBrawl stages and replace them with Peef's face. Peef's face > Lylat, IMHO

 

[NeoZ]

Heeey guys, just reminding yall to send this survey out to your friends so we can get everyone's name on record that wants to try the game out.

take the survey plz

Done.

Spoiler

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