Project M Social Thread

[robosteven]

stop confusing me with him ;_;

...I would like to take this opportunity to apologize, Toast. *hug*

 

[9Kplus1]

stop confusing me with him ;_;

Whatever you say, standardunit

btw Neko mains MARTH. All of SoFree would ban that stage against him, anyway.

 

[Cubelarooso]

Seriously, let Neko and his crew play how they want to play. Have we turned tourneyfag/casualfag against ourselves?

No one's even commenting on the CP system itself other than the stage selections.

 

[GHNeko]

Basically it rooted from Neko saying FD shouldn't be a starter stage because it encourages certain playstyles and I was stating that it can be said the same for other stages that are already starters.

And I'm talking about YI melee not brawl. I thought that was assumed from the fact that YI brawl wasn't considered a starter by anyone lol.

I was saying FD shouldnt be a starter beacuse it's heavily bias towards certain playstyles to the point where certain MUs are weighed way more heavily in a characters favor, which is something that doesnt happen on starters. No matter the stage, someone is going to favored, or a playstyle will be favored.

But what is an important difference in what is a starter or what is a cp or even what is banned, is how heavily MUs are affected on stages.

FD MUs are skewed more than other starters, so as I result i dont think it should be a starter.

@9K+1: What? I said he doesn't have a projectile so he can't just sit back throwing stuff at you the whole match and actually has to get in range of you lol.

@Matt: Admittedly I'm not well known but I have more experience. My logic is, there isn't a single character that straight up turns FD into a full on CP without already having the MU be bad on other stages. Which character can camp so hard on FD that it turns into a CP?


In fact that argument is directed at neko as well,

Which character turns FD into a CP?

pretty much any character with a long distance camp game (samus, link, toon link, zelda, rob(maybe), snake, pit, d3, olimar can turn FD into a CP from the fact that they're good and they're good at camping.

 

[9Kplus1]

I was agreeing with you, Neko...

 

[GHNeko]

OH. My bad. LOL.

 

[iLink]

IC's, anyone else who ends up having a particularly good chain grab game, any character with decent projectiles (especially if they are a character that can cover ground quickly), characters with excellent ground control. Not going to list many specific characters as most of them are up for revision but a couple very likely ones are Diddy, Samus, and Tink.

Which chaingrabs are we even talking about?

The only one's worth mentioning are the ones against Fox/Falco and those balance themselves out considering those characters have the ability to camp. Not sure why you are mentioning diddy at all. It's debatable that Samus and TLink make the stage a CP at all.

 

[GHNeko]

you're underestimating how well these characters can camp with all their buffs and how their moves work lol.

if these characters wanted to, they could easily camp the **** out of FD.

 

[9Kplus1]

Falco does pretty bad against Sheik, Marth, and Fox on FD, btw

 

[robosteven]

Oh no someone challenged tradition. BURN THE WITCH.

It's like saying that Battlefield is CP. It just doesn't make any sense and never will. Certain characters can camp on FD, but those characters can generally camp on ANY stage.

tl;dr Ban MK

 

[MonkUnit]

so how do you guys feel about lylat cruise?

 

[9Kplus1]

Ban Squirtle, and Lylat

 

[GHNeko]

You're missing the point robosteven.


and I hate lylat cruise. That whole stage is anti-recovery. I want to freeze it with all m being.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Any opportunity to Chain Grab a Spacie on FD that is halted by platforms on other stages simply becomes a tech chase game, or, depending on the stage, even more useful for the character since they are under you and you're on a platform.

YS Marth for CP.


Lylat is CP liberal/Banned conservative

 

[kaizo13]

one of my pet peeves against the competitive smash scene :/
so much focus on stages

either outplay your opponent, or lose
i'm not the type to blame stages for my wins/losses

 

[GHNeko]

lol i'm the most liberal PMBR member, and I cant stand lylat. It's a legitimate stage outside it's leaning bull****/Melee BF ledge.

****. if it didnt have melee bf ledge or tilting, I'd play on the stage.

It's a combination of the 2 that make me ban this stage forever.

and i use sonic.

that's how much i hate that ****.

one of my pet peeves against the competitive smash scene :/
so much focus on stages

either outplay your opponent, or lose
i'm not the type to blame stages for my wins/losses

stages are a huge part of smash. i feel like knowing stages is a big part of be coming a great player because it allows you more tools to work with in order to surpass your opponent.

when you successfully abuse a stage's unique properties to beat your opponent, that's outplaying them.

You need to be able to play well on stages, as well as play yourself. If you're a good player, but fail to consistently utilize the stage to win, you're not really outplaying your opponent imo.

 

[Cubelarooso]

I'd like to consider making the stage tilting predictable before removing it.
But definitely make it not random, and remove the Melee BF lip thing that screws recoveries.

 

[standardtoaster]

I wish lylat didn't suck so much. I have great music on it.

 

[iLink]

you're underestimating how well these characters can camp with all their buffs and how their moves work lol.

if these characters wanted to, they could easily camp the **** out of FD.

I think you might be throwing your hands up at the fact that you hate dealing with projectiles in general. I haven't seen reason to believe MU's would be so radically different because of FD. If your character is getting camped so hard that you think it's a CP, chances are the MU is bad in general anyway.

Wasn't I getting beef for saying that powershield shouldn't be more lenient and that it's not hard to do? Well all you gotta do is powershield through the camp.

 

[robosteven]

I just wish Lylat didn't tilt like a *****.

I feel like it wants to be a good stage. Would the removal of the tilting change the stage all that much, or is it not easy to do?

 

[9Kplus1]

I have all of my good (anime) brstms on Lylat as well, ST. I can understand your pain =/

 

[GHNeko]

I think you might be throwing your hands up at the fact that you hate dealing with projectiles in general. I haven't seen reason to believe MU's would be so radically different because of FD.

Wasn't I getting beef for saying that powershield shouldn't be more lenient and that it's not hard to do? Well all you gotta do is powershield through the camp.

I hate dealing with projectiles sure, but I have very strong tools to get around projectiles. I use Sonic and Zero Suit. Getting around projectiles is the least of my worries, if anything, i get around all forms of projectile camping, except falco, because he's a *****, but he doesnt skew MUs on FD to the point of being a CP so it's all good.

You might not have seen reason, but I assure you, characters I mentioned, except possibly rob.

*****s can really camp hard.

oh

forgot to add ivy to that list.

 

[MonkUnit]

would it be better if it still tilted but it tilted slower and / or less than it does currently

 

[Mattnumbers]

Banning Temple doesn't make sense and never will.

See, I can make baseless claims too.

 

[GHNeko]

I just wish Lylat didn't tilt like a *****.

I feel like it wants to be a good stage. Would the removal of the tilting change the stage all that much, or is it not easy to do?

The ledges and the tilting are the only reasons why it's a liberal CP/conservative banned stage.

Real talk.

More so the tilting than anything else.

If the tilting were gone completely, that stage would be liberal starter/conservative CP no problem.

 

[Cubelarooso]

Wait, is it random? I can't really tell. Which is just as bad as being random…
Maybe if it had flashing turn signals on the back of the ship to indicate when it's going to accelerate the tilting?

 

[GHNeko]

SO.

Because Cubelarooso is a cool guy.

I'd like to bring back up my CP System and everyone's thoughts on it.

 

[MonkUnit]

im sure i could make lylat tilt on a time based system. yay?

 

[Mattnumbers]

Neko repost your stage list please I don't want to go back and look for it.

 

[iLink]

would it be better if it still tilted but it tilted slower and / or less than it does currently

I think the fact that the stage is slanted at all is what people don't like.

@Neko: I still need to see it in practice, because it just sounds like theoryfighting to me.

Regarding your CP system, I still think there is a correct grouping issue but I would probably use it considering the huge amount of stages playable.

 

[GHNeko]

Spoiler

Group 1
Battlefield
Pokemon 2
Smashville
Dreamland 64
Yoshis Story

Group 2
Final D
Halberd
Warioware
Yoshi;s Island Brawl
Pokemon 1
FoD

Group 3
Kongo Jungle
SSE:J
Delfino
Skyworld
Rumble Falls
Pictoplus

Group 4
Metal Cavern
Green Hill
Temple:M
Onett
Corneria
Hyrule 64

 

[MonkUnit]

Mattnumber's, Neko's stage list

[colla--

well fine post that before me.

 

[Cubelarooso]

I would love to see players who've truly learned a predictable LC, and use the tilting to their advantage before their opponents even know which way it's going. They CP there not because of character matchup, but player matchup. Like Isai on Pokéfloats.

And Neko, I definitely like your system more than the traditional stage ban one. Obviously, as seen here, there'd be some discussion of what to put in the groups, though.
I liked a similar one I saw once where, rather than having preset groups, the loser just chose 3 or 4 stages and the winner picked from those.
As an active authority for PM, the PMBR really has a unique chance to dictate a more universal rule system. You should make the best of it.

lol Monk. We Sonic players have a saying…

 

[GHNeko]

+1 ninja neko

 

[Mattnumbers]

What changes make Onett a CP instead of banned Neko?

 

[GHNeko]

I think the fact that the stage is slanted at all is what people don't like.

@Neko: I still need to see it in practice, because it just sounds like theoryfighting to me.

Well, we'll probably see it in the future because I know every one else will have FD as a starter.

And that's if and only if someone decided to camp the **** out of FD

 

[MonkUnit]

Onett hasn't received any changes at all, so I'm also wondering why Neko doesn't have it banned.

 

[9Kplus1]

He wants to experiment with it, because he believes that the arguments against it in the past were too lacking and vague -- overall not strong enough -- to warrant a ban.

 

[MonkUnit]

inb4someone-brings-up-Grim-Tuesday's-onett-should-be-legal-thread

the - makes it easier to read

and to think i oculd be sleeping instead of having some stage discussion

 

[GHNeko]

What changes make Onett a CP instead of banned Neko?

He wants to experiment with it, because he believes that the arguments against it were pretty lackluster and vague.

^^^

Essentially, i believe the reasons against onett in melee was

1. Waveshine infinites (no longer capable in P:M)
2. Walk-offs

I think that with half of the reasons for banning onett gone, Onett could use another chance.

After talking it over with SoVa, we pretty much realized that blast-zone camping in Onett is around as strong as in DP/Siege simply because you can't just sit there any wait for them to approach as cars force you to take action, which the second player can use as an opening against you.

If anything, you're potentially in a worse position sitting in the street on the right/left side of Onett while the opponent is on the house as you have to either shield the car (decent amount of shield stun) or you have to jump.

You can only really get by that by powershielding, and if the cars dont deter it to the point of it being a valid CP, the easist fix would be to speed up the cars.