Project M Social Thread

[ETWIST51294]

I guess because this isn't about Brawl+?

I dunno, what did you get infacted for? Trolling?

 

[Kink-Link5]

HEY. SHHH!



o.o I could've sworn Roy had the slashing B.

Oh, if its just Marth's FSmash, I can fix that.

-DD

He had Marth F-smash for shield breaker, and one of the side-B slashes- Upward fourth hit?- as F-smash, if memory serves.

 

[zxeon]

I guess because this isn't about Brawl+?

I dunno, what did you get infacted for? Trolling?

Having a sense of humor/irony.

 

[Buuman]

I guess because this isn't about Brawl+?

I dunno, what did you get infacted for? Trolling?

Unfortunately yes. I was by no means trying to troll

 

[Shell]

Drop the L-canceling argument. It will be included in the standard release. If you don't like it remove it.

This is the last warning. Future offenders will be reported. Cheers.

Shadic, why don't you start on Ganon's jump animations or finish camelots work on U-smash? I'll tweak the tilts and work on running and aerials.

 

[Octave]

DD, want to take a request for a character? :>

 

[Kix]

I have an alternative(s) that me and my friend Fred were talking about during when the Brawl+ project was arguing about using L canceling or not, so maybe this post will be okay. (Still L cancel but has more depth to regular)

Now the alternatives that were brought up were cool. I don't remember exactly what they were, but I think they went something like this; there has to be some kind of reason you'd specifically want to do or not do an L cancel. In my mind, it is fine even if you'd preferably do it most often. I'm not sure how annoying this would be for programming but considering something like

-L cancel for even more reducing of lag, but having the next attack slightly weaker.
-Don't L cancel for slightly more lag but no power decrease.

Or maybe something stranger like

-With L cancel you can cancel into B moves only much quicker.

I could see people not liking these at all, but I think they add strategic depth with L canceling. There are other possibilities as well.

 

[CloneHat]

That's an interesting thought, I like the idea of not always wanting to L cancel.

 

[shanus]

Some moves still have auto cancel windows. By attempting to L cancel them you put yourself in shield. Good enough reason.

Buuman, most of the P:M team spent countless hours developing Brawl+, I dont think your suggestion adds any value to this thread other than serving as a source of flamebait. Posting that is only asking for an infraction since it really contributes... nothing?

 

[ETWIST51294]

Having a sense of humor/irony.

wut??

Unfortunately yes. I was by no means trying to troll

I didn't take your post that way either. But I can see how it could be taken like that.

 

[highfive]

Impressive work. I'd be honored to try and make a Melee-esque loading screen for this.

If I fail I will still keep myself updated on this.

 

[bleyva]

DD, want to take a request for a character? :>

every character that was left out of melee is being recreated in one way or another, theres no characters left to request

 

[Octave]

Put Isaac in and I would probably pay you. Seriously.

Edit: Dies a little inside because of the post above me.

 

[GPDP]

Ok, there is one thing I'm not too sure about: why all the effort to recreate character animations?

Not that I have a real problem with it or anything, but shouldn't efforts be directed toward more pressing matters first, so that we can get a working build out faster?

Well, I do suppose having lots of people working exclusively on animations that don't have expertise on other areas such as coding makes that point moot.

Nevertheless, I dunno. Something just bothers me when people are suggesting we completely turn Ganon into his Melee self, going as far as to suggest he have Captain Falcon-esque animations, such as his Melee dtilt. Is that really necessary? Do we really want to turn back the clock on his decloning to such an extent?

 

[ETWIST51294]

Yeah I get what you mean^^.

I agree with changing his fair and jab but we don't really NEED to change anything else(except his run xD) but I don't really mind.

 

[Kix]

Some moves still have auto cancel windows. By attempting to L cancel them you put yourself in shield. Good enough reason.

So you know what those are and don't do it. What percentage of moves are those anyway? Again, I'm not the programmers and this could be a pain in the *** but I think it would be a neat experiment if it worked out. This is a total system thing that effects all of the characters regardless of moves like that.

 

[Octave]

Put Isaac in and I would probably pay you. Seriously.

Edit: Dies a little inside because of the post above me.

After talking to DD for a bit on AIM, please disregard my post. I understand things better now...

Ganon should be decloned completely IMO

 

[P. O. F.]

This is ****ing awesome.

 

[Smoom77]

I am SOOOO excited for this!!

 

[Zantetsu]

Wow, this thread moves quicker then I thought. I was hoping to be able to keep up but this will be a little hard.
Anyway, bringing up the 5 dropped characters again.. Wouldn't it be easier to have a code to load a specific pac file while holding a certain button after pressing start on the CSS then to add extra slots? For example, select Mario, hold Z and press start will load a special pac from the SD card allowing you to play Dr. Mario.

I have no knowledge on ocarina codes or anything, but this is just a thought I had.

Another thing, if the 5 dropped characters came back, would they be exactly the same as their melee counterparts or would they be less cloneish? In my personal opinion, I'd love to see their original states come back since this is trying to be melee. There's already PSA's of the 5 with movesets that didn't match melee so why not have actual melee clones again? Any classic competitive melee player could tell you that even though their movesets were the same, they played so very differently.

Sorry for the rant, just trying to bring up some topics

 

[ETWIST51294]

How is Squirle in this? He should be a combo machine. And can Lucas DJC?

 

[S l o X]

I don't care how many characters are in this but the idea is **** . Good luck guys D: i want to see this set off and begin big later in the year.

 

[Sterowent]

Wow, this thread moves quicker then I thought. I was hoping to be able to keep up but this will be a little hard.
Anyway, bringing up the 5 dropped characters again.. Wouldn't it be easier to have a code to load a specific pac file while holding a certain button after pressing start on the CSS then to add extra slots? For example, select Mario, hold Z and press start will load a special pac from the SD card allowing you to play Dr. Mario.

well, there is almas's clone engine code, and it does this, but two things: one, it's very buggy, and pinning down why this is has been very difficult, and, two, this doesn't enable another person to play the original character. if one person chooses roy, the other person can't choose marth, basically forcing dittos and messing up teams. in other words, it's far from usable as is.

Another thing, if the 5 dropped characters came back, would they be exactly the same as their melee counterparts or would they be less cloneish? In my personal opinion, I'd love to see their original states come back since this is trying to be melee. There's already PSA's of the 5 with movesets that didn't match melee so why not have actual melee clones again? Any classic competitive melee player could tell you that even though their movesets were the same, they played so very differently.

if a new version of a character is agreed to be superior in gameplay, i cannot agree to this. i mean, the only reason a clone played differently was because of a swap of options via hitboxes and trajectories in a very direct way. why not add something like a murder choke or, at the least, a falco fsmash animation to further differentiate and add to their experience?

the roy PSA allows for him to use the tipper, the idea behind marth, but in a way not so ridiculous like the phantom tip in melee. it puts the opponent in a position to be comboed even more. in this sense, learning to DI versus this Roy is key, though a good Roy will mix up attacks that generally would force your opponent to DI the wrong way. the PSA Roy forces Pro DI situations then! it's brilliant and gives reason to make roy's recovery continue to blow.

now, i'm not for the extra spikes and meteors he's got left and right, but that's a much more provocative premise for a character than melee roy, isn't it?

Sorry for the rant, just trying to bring up some topics

cool

 

[Kix]

I forgot to ask this. For Mario's cape, is it going to be made so it flips the opponent around while guarding and knocks down when someone tries to grab?

 

[Zantetsu]

well, there is almas's clone engine code, and it does this, but two things: one, it's very buggy, and pinning down why this is has been very difficult, and, two, this doesn't enable another person to play the original character. if one person chooses roy, the other person can't choose marth, basically forcing dittos and messing up teams. in other words, it's far from usable as is.

I wasn't sure what the clone engine was. But I'm glad something like this is in the works. Hopefully it'll be usable in the near future.

if a new version of a character is agreed to be superior in gameplay, i cannot agree to this. i mean, the only reason a clone played differently was because of a swap of options via hitboxes and trajectories in a very direct way. why not add something like a murder choke or, at the least, a falco fsmash animation to further differentiate and add to their experience?

I can understand your statement but wouldn't something like that be more fitting for brawl+? This is a melee hack after all, shouldn't we keep it as melee-like as possible? I'm not saying we should have the characters be exactly the same because a few changes here and there won't hurt. I just don't think we should abuse characters with changes. Leave most of them the same. The ones that are changed the most should stick to brawl+. But then again, this is just my personal opinion. I'm a real big fan of melee and I'm just trying to help out with what I can.

Anyway, I won't be able to reply to anyone who quotes this post. I'm off to bed. If anyone quotes me, I'll most likely reply sometime between 6:30 - 7:30 tomorrow morning so just expect a late reply. I'll be back

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

Changing animations and giving them their proper effects is child's play. Since most animations can just be copypasta'd.

 

[Shadic]

o.o I could've sworn Roy had the slashing B.
Oh, if its just Marth's FSmash, I can fix that.

I swear they just keep swapping back and forth between the middle third hit of his SideB and Fsmash.

Shadic, why don't you start on Ganon's jump animations or finish camelots work on U-smash? I'll tweak the tilts and work on running and aerials.

Camelot didn't post the Usmash, and I'm not sure what you're going for in regards to the jump animations. More like Falcon's, I'm assuming?

 

[Shell]

More or less. You can work with what's there and try to make it look more agile or just go back to the falcon. Camelot hasn't posted the usmash yet, but the Usmash start and Usmash charge could be started independently.

 

[Buuman]

Some moves still have auto cancel windows. By attempting to L cancel them you put yourself in shield. Good enough reason.

Buuman, most of the P:M team spent countless hours developing Brawl+, I dont think your suggestion adds any value to this thread other than serving as a source of flamebait. Posting that is only asking for an infraction since it really contributes... nothing?

Why take a step back in history to replicate the advanced techniques that us melee players mastered years ago, and adjusted to brawl. Why make it so you have to spend countless hours learning new advanced techniques when you already have auto canceling and whatnot. Not having to worry about advanced techniques, while keeping the game at a fast competitive pace, will allow progression in prediction and overall play. Players can focus on learning new combos, and player patterns.

My point is, we already have a perfectly good product out (Brawl+) that is constantly being tested and worked on, with nearly a full balanced roster and allows comboing like in melee, but without the countless hours that one must practice on tech skill. I played both melee, brawl, and am currently playing brawl+ competitively, and I feel the brawl+ is ultimately taking the best of both worlds.

 

[shanus]

Why take a step back in history to replicate the advanced techniques that us melee players mastered years ago, and adjusted to brawl. Why make it so you have to spent countless hours learning new advanced techniques when you already have auto canceling and whatnot. Not having to worry about advanced techniques, while keeping the game at a fast competitive pace, will allow progression in prediction and overall play. Players can focus on learning new combos, and player patterns.

My point is, we already have a perfectly good product out (Brawl+) that is constantly being tested and worked on, with nearly a full balanced roster and allows comboing like in melee, but without the countless hours that one must practice on tech skill. I played both melee, brawl, and am currently playing brawl+ competitively, and I feel the brawl+ is ultimately taking the best of both worlds.

I still play it too, as I said originally, I'm not planning on publicizing this like Brawl+ nor do I want to do anything to damage.

I spent tons of time on brawl+ and started this as a project of personal enjoyment when life picked up and I didnt have the time to dedicate to leading Brawl+ development. I think you see this as a direct stab at brawl+ when its funny that a bunch of the changes I've made/dsicovered while making this I have directly added into Brawl+ (a la samus bomb explode on contact as an example).

Some people have been itching for something like this for a long time given how 95%+ of the feedback in this thread is positive and this is something I do because I enjoy the programming side of things. Personal enjoyment is serious business.

 

[Buuman]

I still play it too, as I said originally, I'm not planning on publicizing this like Brawl+ nor do I want to do anything to damage.

I spent tons of time on brawl+ and started this as a project of personal enjoyment when life picked up and I didnt have the time to dedicate to leading Brawl+ development. I think you see this as a direct stab at brawl+ when its funny that a bunch of the changes I've made/dsicovered while making this I have directly added into Brawl+ (a la samus bomb explode on contact as an example).

Some people have been itching for something like this for a long time given how 95%+ of the feedback in this thread is positive and this is something I do because I enjoy the programming side of things. Personal enjoyment is serious business.

Amen to that brutha. That's good to know. Keep it up then, I hope you continue offering aid to brawl+ because it's come along so great already.

 

[camelot]

Camelot hasn't posted the usmash yet, but the Usmash start and Usmash charge could be started independently.

I'll do this today.

 

[shanus]

I'll do this today.

IRC is now online for discussion:

brawlplus.net/irc/

Type /join #ProjectM

 

[Buuman]

Are you still on the Brawl+ team Shanus?

 

[shanus]

Are you still on the Brawl+ team Shanus?

I haven't been actively participating in balance discussion for a fair amount of time now, I occasionally chime in here and there. I generally help with some of their coding here and there too, but they are mostly just altering small stuff here and there and don't need many large reworkings.

Cape was active behind balance for GSH1 and GSh2 and now transferred to Veril. I'm sure some of this stuff I've been working on might find its way over if it does perform well since we all talk pretty frequently.

 

[V-K]

I believe this is a great idea.
Some people don´t like wavedash and L cancel but that´s what it will make it more competitive than B+.

 

[bleyva]

not sure if this has been asked, but are fox's lasers gonna get their melee distance back? they seem way too short in brawl

 

[Blank Mauser]

The trailer for this should have the Melee announcer.

A NEW- MELEE!

etc.

Looking forward to trying this out I suppose. I really would like to see Sonic's instant homing attack, because I thought that was super awesome, and added much more to him with the cancel. But wavedashing out of spindash will already be nice.

I think this has the potential to be sharper then Brawl+ in a few areas, even if its just a fun side project.

 

[DarkDragoon]

not sure if this has been asked, but are fox's lasers gonna get their melee distance back? they seem way too short in brawl

We did discuss this briefly, and we found that keeping them with their brawl distance is probably the most conductive to not-camping and spamming like some melee foxes liked to do.

The trailer for this should have the Melee announcer.

A NEW- MELEE!

etc.

Looking forward to trying this out I suppose. I really would like to see Sonic's instant homing attack, because I thought that was super awesome, and added much more to him with the cancel. But wavedashing out of spindash will already be nice.

I think this has the potential to be sharper then Brawl+ in a few areas, even if its just a fun side project.

I'm the recording guy, so we'll see what I can come up with .
-DD

 

[cubaisdeath]

I have an alternative(s) that me and my friend Fred were talking about during when the Brawl+ project was arguing about using L canceling or not, so maybe this post will be okay. (Still L cancel but has more depth to regular)

Now the alternatives that were brought up were cool. I don't remember exactly what they were, but I think they went something like this; there has to be some kind of reason you'd specifically want to do or not do an L cancel. In my mind, it is fine even if you'd preferably do it most often. I'm not sure how annoying this would be for programming but considering something like

-L cancel for even more reducing of lag, but having the next attack slightly weaker.
-Don't L cancel for slightly more lag but no power decrease.

Or maybe something stranger like

-With L cancel you can cancel into B moves only much quicker.

I could see people not liking these at all, but I think they add strategic depth with L canceling. There are other possibilities as well.

yeah, you're right. this idea is really stupid. I have a better strategy as to why you should L cancel. its because it reduces half of the lag of your aerials. why would you want to make it so you're faster but weaker? that just makes the game run FOREVER and then no one would l cancel unless the move has 100000 frames of lag. and canceling into b moves faster would be ******** as well. fox would break shields every time