Project GENO - MarioDK Demo out

[Xyless]

I should probably try out Shadic's as well.

 

[Yunior597]

All i have to say is that both are good but indigo's geno is overpowered and shadic's geno too weak.

I think you guys should work together to make the perferct geno, and make it balanced so people can accept it.

Shadic's geno is outdated i hope he releases a new version and review it. it need a lot of fix.
and it needs to remove every sword animation left. sometimes when you play you see the sword. I hope you guys take this advice seriosly and make a good geno, like project metwo or roy, even the pichu psa is good enough. Geno should be too.

 

[...:::VILE:::...]

Im willing to make a geno model if this gets more serious.

 

[Shadic]

I'm sure we'll have a pretty decent Geno combined before too long, Vile. I think using Toon Link's animations is the one thing holding us back.

 

[Xyless]

Yeah, the current Geno texture and using TLink is actually spot on, and really shouldn't need a new texture.

Also, I'll have a summary of Shadic's new Geno soon. Just gonna say, it's looking sexy.

 

[...:::VILE:::...]

Well, if this geno becomes properly balanced, i will make a model for it.

 

[IndigoFenix]

I'd like to see more opinions on specific moves in order to see trends of likes and dislikes. Most of the non-specials can be changed pretty easily if I have an idea of exactly what to do, unfortunately the throws will be the hardest thing to fix - especially since I suspect they might work differently in Brawl+ and VBrawl (I think it could be that they are escapable in VBrawl but not in Brawl+).

 

[Shadic]

Indigo - Have you looked at the DownB reflection yet? It's still stumping me.

 

[NovaRyumaru]

After playign around with geno in both balanced Brawl and + I'd havce to saym, great work. Though the Up B ont he ground, does it even have a purpose?

 

[Chileno4Live]

No offense, but i likd Indigo's Geno a lot more. Because it feels better. The moves aren't so akward either zo yeah. The only thing i dislike is the UpB, what purpose does it have? Maybe make it so it does damage? Because it doesn't do damage on my PAL wii, which sucks in every way.

 

[Xyless]

Believe me, Shadic's new Geno feels a lot better now.

Also, Indigo's Up B (when done in the air) boosts his aerials, even giving his fair a Falcon Knee if sweetspotted.

 

[Fatmanonice]

*completely stunned* I can think of a few old members of the Geno Alliance who would crap their pants if they saw this.

 

[PK-ow!]

I'm sure we'll have a pretty decent Geno combined before too long, Vile. I think using Toon Link's animations is the one thing holding us back.

You can use his taunts, right?

Downtaunt looks good for Star Gun or something...

You gotta get at least three different "rocket punches" (Sudai) in there, though. You just gotta.

I'm somewhat miffed at the up-spinning and down-spinning. I guess it sorta connects with things Geno actually did, but. . .


Well, this is awesome. You're awesome.

 

[IndigoFenix]

Making Geno Boost have a greater impact - good idea or bad idea?

I'm thinking of weakening some of his stronger aerials when non-boosted and strengthening his weaker ones when boosted (making his FAir sweetspot easier to hit, making his DAir a weak spike when not boosted and a strong, killing one when boosted, weakening his non-boosted BAir to prevent spamming). Currently, it hardly matters whether or not he's boosted, but would raising the difference make him too weird to play as? That's what I'm asking.

Oh, and Shadic - my idea for the reflection fix didn't work, after all. Why don't you release the PAC as it is, with potential for future changes? I'd like to see if there's any other good ideas I can take from it .

 

[Shadic]

Well shoot.

Also, I think I may look into yanking some of your stuff (I love the graphic effects on the specials) for this release. I'll see what I can do by tomorrow.

Edit - How did you remove the Zair, along with the grapple? You told me before how to remove it for the grab, but not the Zair and tether moves.

 

[IndigoFenix]

Oh, that's easy - just go to his AirCatch subaction and copy the data from the EscapeAir subaction over it.

 

[Shadic]

Awesome, thanks!

Should be looking at a quick release, then. I'm not changing any of the throws yet due to their apparently buggy nature. (Also, I was having CPUs escape the moves fairly easily when I tried yours, Indigo)

 

[IndigoFenix]

Awesome, thanks!

Should be looking at a quick release, then. I'm not changing any of the throws yet due to their apparently buggy nature. (Also, I was having CPUs escape the moves fairly easily when I tried yours, Indigo)

Actually, it isn't the throws themselves that are buggy - it's the multiple hitboxes after the throw. You can use a simple instant-throw technique with whatever animation you want and it'll work perfectly, it just won't look like a real throw move. If you can come up with a normal sequence of hitboxes that will always hit every character in the same way regardless of size, weight, damage, or DI, it'll work as a throw. Maybe you could make it work, because you got pretty close with your FSmash (which is why I used it as a FThrow).

 

[Shadic]

Got some mostly minor stuff to change that I can hopefully finish today. Basically, I'm taking Indigo's Ledge Attacks, Getup attacks (What's the subaction for that? E7? B0? B9? You messed with all of them, and I can't figure out what is what), and minor grab stuff, then I should have a new set out.

Gonna have to update the OP and the second post as well. Lotsa changes, and I'm going to make the main post easier to read and get some character info outta. So slightly less Sakuraish.

 

[Oni K4ge]

No offense, but i likd Indigo's Geno a lot more. Because it feels better. The moves aren't so akward either zo yeah. The only thing i dislike is the UpB, what purpose does it have? Maybe make it so it does damage? Because it doesn't do damage on my PAL wii, which sucks in every way.

I agree with every word of that.

 

[BurningCharizard]

I downloaded and tried out Shadic's Geno, and I'm really liking it. He plays WAY differently than the other characters, which is really cool, and his attacks are flashy and powerful.

Though I do have some gripes.

-Geno Beam is practically useless in actual battle. It takes too long to charge up, it doesn't seem to hold charges, and the inability to use it in the air is a real liability.
-His Fair has a REALLY tiny hitbox.

Other than those, well done! Just need to figure out how to apply everything to only one texture and Geno will be ready to Brawl!

 

[Shadic]

Indigo - You seem to have cut Geno's invincibility during his Getup Attack Subaction E7. Was that intentional?

 

[woopyfrood]

Doesn't Geno have rocket fists of fury?

 

[IndigoFenix]

Indigo - You seem to have cut Geno's invincibility during his Getup Attack Subaction E7. Was that intentional?

Hmm...Nope, I don't remember doing that. I probably changed it into something else in order to keep the action ID the same (on rare occasions, changing the ID of an action can cause problems, so I like to avoid it when possible).

Doesn't Geno have rocket fists of fury?

While we'd both like Rocket Punches, we're limited by the fact that Toon Link never removes his hands. I settled for giving him punches with fiery animations.

I'm gradually fixing up his throws (the subtlety of trying to make it fit with everyone at every damage % makes it take a lot of testing). Still no luck at making his grab range bigger, though...

 

[Shadic]

Hmm...Nope, I don't remember doing that. I probably changed it into something else in order to keep the action ID the same (on rare occasions, changing the ID of an action can cause problems, so I like to avoid it when possible).

Well, I kept it in mine, and it works.

Shame about the grab range though, I was just looking into how you did yours.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Just for thought, I believe the grab range "hitbox" is ovular and elongated instead of spherical like a normal hitbox. I believe increasing the range is really like a multiplier for how elongated it is.

Although this is just a guess...

 

[IndigoFenix]

I think the problem originates with the fact that characters with a ranged grab (the Links, Samus) have a different type of coding for their grab than other characters, since they have to draw in the opponent after latching on to them. Originally, when I tried to get rid of the Hookshot altogether (instead of just having it in for one frame, as it is now), the grab itself worked fine but he couldn't throw them afterwards. I've tried increasing the catch collision size (at least, I think it's the size) attached to the hookshot itself, but it didn't seem to help. There should be a way to fix it - I mean, a catch collision is just a catch collision, right? I just can't figure out how.

 

[Shadic]

You try copy and pasting from another character?

 

[IndigoFenix]

That was my first idea, it didn't help.

By the way, I found the SFX for the Star Rod:

1F8F = Star Rod swing (weak)
1F8E = Star Rod swing (strong)
1F8D = Star Rod swing (smash)

Could be helpful, I think!

 

[Shadic]

Oh nice. Right when I was about to do a release, haha.

I'm going to do a big overhaul of the first post, with descriptions of both of our movesets, move by move.

You wanna take a few pictures of your Geno? (Maybe whatever you have that most differentiates our characters?)

 

[IndigoFenix]

Urg, I was so close! I'll just release this one now, because it doesn't look like I'm going to get a chance to test anymore tonight. The only thing left is his Back throw, which is almost complete as it is, I just haven't gotten that last hitbox in place correctly. Shadic, if you'd like, you could probably finish it in about five minutes.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/tntninmvgmg/CosmicGenoVersion1.18.pac

Anyway, an overview of the main changes:

The dynamics of overcharging Geno Beam and Geno Blast are now different. Instead of firing immediately if you hold the button past the 3-charge limit, they will 'fizzle' and gradually lose power over the course of about half a second, dropping down to a single charge if you don't let go fast enough. While this diverges a bit from SMRPG mechanics (in which case a failure to land a timed hit was simply a failure) it slightly increases Geno's options by allowing him to hold at least a partial charge a little longer than usual.

Geno Beam and Geno Blast now look slightly different at different charge levels, which should help people who aren't familiar with Geno's SMRPG mechanics.

The aerial Geno Blast becomes stronger if Geno has used Geno Boost.

The turning invisible when stunned glitch has been fixed, and he no longer dies if his shield breaks.

The difference between his Boosted aerials and his non-Boosted ones has been increased. Specifically, his Bair and Dair are both much weaker when not Boosted. These two attacks have also been given slight starting lag increases and significant ending lag increases.

His Fair's hitbox properties have been changed a little, making it easier to sweetspot on purpose and harder to do so by accident (basically, it will sweetspot if and only if you hit with the end of the dash alone).

Fair, Bair, and Dair all have graphical differences when Boosted.

His Nair still has a small hitbox, but the starting lag has been decreased and the hitbox stays out longer. It is also much more powerful when it comes out. Basically, it's comparable to Pikachu's Nair. It does get stronger with Geno Boost, but since it is already a high-risk/high-return attack, its Boost is not nearly as significant as Fair, Bair, and Dair. His Uair, being a kill move in its own right, does not receive any Boost.

Ftilt's KBG has been lowered significantly.

Utilt's hitboxes hit at slightly different angles.

His grab range has been lengthened, and all of his throws, with the exception of his currently incomplete back throw, should now work in all circumstances. Let me know if any bugs are found.

I think that's it. Here's a few pictures of some of his moves:

Bowser getting nailed by a fully charged Geno Beam. Geno Beam is best used as a 'trap' move. You usually won't land a fully charged Beam, but it has great damage and knockback if you do.

Geno Whirl! Hit A right before the attack hits the enemy for OVER 9000 DAMAGE!!! No, not really (that wouldn't be fair, now, would it?), but it can kill at around 100% damage. It takes some practice to land the attack, and isn't too hard to dodge, but never stay still too long when fighting an expert Cosmic Geno player...

...or you'll get HURT.

Geno Boost is Cosmic Geno's recovery move. Besides letting him rise upwards, it has a lengthy super armor period at its initiation, making Cosmic Geno particularly tough to gimp. It doesn't put him into free-fall, in fact, it raises the attack power of his aerial moves after he uses it.

As broken as it might seem on paper, Geno Blast isn't actually that useful a move in practice. Its ridiculous charge-up time and tendency to leave you wide open at close range more than makes up for its massive damage potential, and it's lack of knockback doesn't even give it the satisfaction of landing a Falcon Punch. Spam it, and you'll just get punished.

But, used properly, Geno Blast does work to round out Cosmic Geno's arsenal of long-range attacks. As you can see from this picture, it covers a lot of ground and can deal a lot of damage. It's also good for racking up damage on an opponent while they're off-stage, although Cosmic Geno's lack of strong horizontal knockback means that you won't be in such a situation very often. In a free-for-all, you can sometimes stand off to the side and Blast everyone while they're busy with each other. Just don't do it too much, or they'll all come after you!

You can also use Geno Blast in the air, but since it's slow, has no knockback, and puts you into free-fall, it probably isn't really worth it except in certain rare circumstances. It sure looks cool, though. THAT'S IT, I'M BLOWIN' UP JAPAN!

Here's the Star Gun, Cosmic Geno's side smash. It's tricky to use, since you have to hit the A button a right after launching the first attack to use the more powerful secondary blast, and it isn't even particularly powerful. It does have good range, though, and its double-hit nature can make Cosmic Geno unpredictable.

Cosmic Geno's Fair, the Rocket Rush, lets him swoop in quickly and nail opponents. It can 'push' opponents forward on contact, making for some crazy combos, but it's strongest if you hit right at the end of the attack. After using Geno Boost, it becomes an extremely powerful kill move...

...as you can see.

Triple Blast is one of the more unique Bair's, hitting in a wide, long-distance arc but leaving Cosmic Geno vulnerable at close-range. No longer as spammy or as powerful as it once was, using Triple Blast effectively requires some planning. It's best used after a Geno Boost.

Cosmic Geno's DTilt resembles Samus', as it pops opponents into the air. It's a particularly useful move, especially since Cosmic Geno has such great aerial capabilities. DTilt to Uair is one of his better kill options.

As is befitting a being from the Star Road, most of Cosmic Geno's good kill moves hit opponents straight upwards. His UAir, USmash, and UTilt, which is shown here, are all some of the most powerful attacks in Cosmic Geno's arsenal. This means that, without a lucky hit from Geno Beam, a timed Geno Whirl, or a Boosted aerial sweetspot, you're going to have to rack up quite a bit of damage to actually land a KO. Fortunately, Cosmic Geno's aerial combos are more than up to the task.

 

[xepherthree]

-looks at title-
OMG MEGAHYPE FOR UPDATE
-drools-

Also, on a side note, I realized that Cosmic geno can **** someone with dair on a spring.
lol80damagein5seconds
Also, dair spam+co-op boss battles on Veryhard=no heart run IF my friend doesn't get killed by the wings XD
Dair is broken.

 

[Yunior597]

Yes it is, its a awesome spike but broken.

 

[Shadic]

OP UPDATED, NEW FIGHTER GENO!
​

Seriously, the new OP should be a lot better for information. Editing the second post for screenshots and whatnot.

 

[IndigoFenix]

Loving the new look! But you said you used my Down Throw... Are you sure it works on Ganon? The reason I took it away was because it caused freezing...

 

[Shadic]

I'm 99% sure it's because you have something to do with removing the sword/shield on Toon Link's DownThrown, or something. I've not had any crashes with it.

(You would have also seen Mario's hat disappear and stuff)

 

[Mr. Escalator]

I so need footage of these beasts; I saw Shadic's a while back but I don't know if he's got a super recent one. Indigo's really intrigues me, so get on recording it!

<3 Geno

 

[Shadic]

The Geno footage is quite old. It was my the first release, which is utterly inferior to this one in every way.

 

[Eldiran]

Sweet deal. These are both rather well refined. Some notes and comments:

- Cosmic Geno has a fast grab without the hookshot, but the range is still hookshot-length. Probably broken.
- From my first impression, Cosmic Geno's Dair appears broken. 16% is a lot.
- Fighter Geno's back air moves him in a really wonky, uncomfortable way.
- I really, really love what you guys did with Geno Whirl. I prefer using it with Cosmic Geno's falling speed better though.
- I find I prefer Fighter Geno's moves overall -- the graphic effects are nicer and cleaner in most cases. There are a few exceptions.
- Alternately, I prefer Cosmic Geno's attributes (falling speed particularly.)

These observations are all from just trying out each move in training. I don't mean to be derogatory in any way when I compare the two -- those comments are made keeping in mind your future goal of combining the two (are you still planning to do that?).

By the way, the shield should be able to be removed altogether if you want it to be. Just change the 2nd parameter of the shield's model changer code to 2.

 

[xepherthree]

Like the new OP, still need try out the new updated versions.

Also, indigo: Fsmash doesn't work as you intended, at least in the old version; Youcan hit A for the second hit, but if you hit the c-stick right/left twice in a row you get the second hit without A. I don't know if you intended, but it makes it alot easier to get the second hit, I don't know if this is good or bad in your mind, just wanted to point it out.