Prepare to be Astounded One Last Time: Wiseguy’s Brawl Predictions THE FINAL VERSION!

[Yokoshima Metsubo]

I swear to god if they nerf the knee imma be pissed. thats his KO man, he only has one so why would u take it from him?

 

[Phaazoid]

I swear to god if they nerf the knee imma be pissed. thats his KO man, he only has one so why would u take it from him?

try reading the posts before you first next time, that was a little random.

as for Ike, i see his over b as sort of a long range sword attack (sonic blade) and his dowm b as a hp/health regeneration move. man, Ike rocks.

 

[Devastlian]

I swear to god if they nerf the knee imma be pissed. thats his KO man, he only has one so why would u take it from him?

If they do, they'd probably give him new moves to compensate or buff one/some of his other moves in more or just as viable KO moves.

 

[OysterMeister]

Hmmm, lots of people are wondering about that temporary "invincibility" in Ike's move. After reading the update a few times, I figure it's until he grabs his sword. I mean, if you throw an important part of your moveset into the air and then get knocked away, what would happen to the sword?

At least that's the way I saw it.

I think the idea of a heavy character with temporary invulnerability came first, and paved the way for moves like Ike's up special second.
The invulnerable thing seems to be a way for the game to mimic real-life momentum. I mean, if ten tons of Bowser was REALLY falling on you, I don't think you'd be able to stop it with a turnip. So this seems more like a way to prevent faster characters from sucker-punching heavy characters out of their strongest attacks.

You see, Roy being a Marth clone they both have similar movesets anyway. It wouldn't be a stretch of the imagination to have both movesets combined into one blue-haired lord that has a fiery sword and a tipper at the end. Just a thought.

It isn't impossible, but it seems unlikely. So far, we've seen all the indications that Ike might replace Roy, as Ike is strong and has at least some command of fire. But where's the evidence that he's like Marth? His blue hair? That's just silly. His frail, girlish frame? Not really too frail if he's acting like a heavy character. And his supposed 'tipper', the Ragnell? Questionable at best. Swords that widen at the end of the blade are almost always used for hacking, not stabbing. The extra weight at the end allows the sword to pick up more momentum on a swing, but you only get the full effect if you hit with the center of the blade.
Besides, both Marth and Roy's movesets were the same, set apart only by differences in speed and strength. This means that, if we want to guess at who he's replacing, it's Ike's strength and speed we should be watching, not his moves. And as I said, so far all out clues hint at Ike being as strong and slow, if not stronger and slower, than Roy.

 

[xianfeng]

While K. Rool is still a posibilty, let's be brutally honest: the character brings nothing new to the roster since we have our resident giant lizard villian in the form of Bowser. I could definitely see him as an Assist Trophy, however.

So throwing crowns, shooting cannonballs and boxing is nothing new for Brawl?
The Donkey Kong series is like the 4th or 5th best selling series and it's pretty big having quite a few games with 2 new ones being released soon so 2 characters is a real injustice.

 

[Pieman0920]

Throwing crowns is idiotic. Shooting cannonballs isn't needed. Boxing should be given to Little Mac. No matter what though, King K is a horrible character, being dull, boring, and generic. It's not a matter of DK's popularity, it's matter of how horrible he is.

 

[Chibirobo]

Throwing crowns is idiotic. Shooting cannonballs isn't needed. Boxing should be given to Little Mac. No matter what though, King K is a horrible character, being dull, boring, and generic. It's not a matter of DK's popularity, it's matter of how horrible he is.

I have to agree with him,he would be a very bad PC,and I would REALLY like to know why anyone would even consider giving him a spot.

 

[Viroxor]

Better reptile villains include:

Ridley
Kraid
Bowser
Leon Powalski

One of whom is confirmed, another of whom lots of people believe will eventually be confirmed, one of whom was only a background, and one of whom is a minor villain with little chances, but regardless, still a pretty good villain.

K Rool just doesn't cut it.

 

[Chibirobo]

Better reptile villains include:

Ridley
Kraid
Bowser
Leon Powalski

One of whom is confirmed, another of whom lots of people believe will eventually be confirmed, one of whom was only a background, and one of whom is a minor villain with little chances, but regardless, still a pretty good villain.

K Rool just doesn't cut it.

While I agree with first three,I think K.Rool will get in before Leon. Leon would more than likely be a clone of either Wolf or Fox. K.Rool would at least have (semi)original moveset.

 

[the grim lizard]

Throwing crowns is idiotic. Shooting cannonballs isn't needed. Boxing should be given to Little Mac. No matter what though, King K is a horrible character, being dull, boring, and generic. It's not a matter of DK's popularity, it's matter of how horrible he is.

While I do think DK kind of deserves 3 reps, I really think they'll just get 2 for this very reason.

Anyway, I know what doesn't suck: giant freakin robots! For what it's worth, I think Ray would be a fine addition. I wouldn't call him a shoe in, but he's definitely a contender.

The Custom Robo robots are like 1 ft. tall. They aren't exactly "giant"...

 

[Chibirobo]

While I do think DK kind of deserves 3 reps, I really think they'll just get 2 for this very reason.



The Custom Robo robots are like 1 ft. tall. They aren't exactly "giant"...

Captain Oilmar isn't that tall either,and he has a pretty good chance.

 

[Hong]

In regard to the post earlier about Ike getting a restorative move for his B-down, well...

Now I know it's not stated in the description we have so far, but if anything would have healing/life stealing properties, it'd be Aether. Aether is composed of two attacks. The first is the jump slash, known as Sol. Sol steals life from the enemy. The second is Luna, the attack Ike uses after Sol. He raises his sword, delivering a vertical blow and then hops away. Luna ignores defense, but such wouldn't exist in Smash Bros. If they didn't have the life stealing component, then it'd be called Luna and not Sol. So either Aether can restore life or nothing does. Other than Counter (which would fit nicely, mind you), there are a variety of more viable techniques to assert to Ike's B-down. Between his B-forward and B-down he could have Ragnell's ranged magic attack, the critical animation where he slashes through the enemy to the other side or perhaps an Armor Slayer which would have a heavy impact on shields but high lag. The possibilities are broader than one may think. There are four possible critical animations to draw from the game, as well as skills. (Such as the already present Aether.)

 

[the grim lizard]

Captain Oilmar isn't that tall either,and he has a pretty good chance.

I realize that, but Wiseguy referred to them as "giant robots," which they aren't.

 

[DonkeySmasher]

erased to save face

"don't worry it is in dynamism's post"

 

[O D I N]

The more I watch that 15 second clip, the more impressed I am with the game.

 

[Dynamism]

that's new

i just noticed that there is a chainchomp in the bottom right of the Yoshi stage during the 15 sec clip

also you can see it in the second trailer but it's farther away

therefore i'm guessing that the support ghost comes out in the left side for help and the chain chomp periodically returns in the right side as a hazard

if this is true it's safe to say that sakurai is hiding a lot of info inside the updates to give us a taste without wasting all the surprise elements

the obvious ones include rumble falls (what's on top, and what does the buttons do)
but this chain chomp one has absoluteley no clues in the actual YI update

so unless it's just a background art one must wonder what is sakurai intentionally not revealing

darn now i'm even more excited

lol, glad you finally noticed!

The more I watch that 15 second clip, the more impressed I am with the game.

yeah really...

In regard to the post earlier about Ike getting a restorative move for his B-down, well...

Now I know it's not stated in the description we have so far, but if anything would have healing/life stealing properties, it'd be Aether. Aether is composed of two attacks. The first is the jump slash, known as Sol. Sol steals life from the enemy. The second is Luna, the attack Ike uses after Sol. He raises his sword, delivering a vertical blow and then hops away. Luna ignores defense, but such wouldn't exist in Smash Bros. If they didn't have the life stealing component, then it'd be called Luna and not Sol. So either Aether can restore life or nothing does. Other than Counter (which would fit nicely, mind you), there are a variety of more viable techniques to assert to Ike's B-down. Between his B-forward and B-down he could have Ragnell's ranged magic attack, the critical animation where he slashes through the enemy to the other side or perhaps an Armor Slayer which would have a heavy impact on shields but high lag. The possibilities are broader than one may think. There are four possible critical animations to draw from the game, as well as skills. (Such as the already present Aether.)

Thank You! I don't know enough about Ike so had no idea what he could do for the SM remaining.

Captain Oilmar isn't that tall either,and he has a pretty good chance.

He's in, there's no "chance" involved here, he's in!

 

[DonkeySmasher]

@ dynamism

i guess people discovered it before i joined and no one talked about it ever since

or i somehow I missed everyone talking about it

i feel sad now

luckily i still have my 40 man list that noone disagreed with

 

[Dynamism]

@DS: Where's your 40 man list? I wanna see it!!!!
Now I feel sad

 

[DonkeySmasher]

never none shall see it unless they go through this great long thread

kidding i'll show it to you when i come back

if anyone asks i'm going to mexico to help an orphanage for a week (not kidding)

 

[Dynamism]

k cool, have fun!

I hope you included BANJO lol

 

[Psychemaster]

Banjo is owned by Rare, his chances are practically zero. However, that minute chance is still there.

 

[Dynamism]

RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He "was" on nintendo!!!!!!!!!!!! RRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HE BETTER BE!!!!!!!! RRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
lol
jk

I'm not really a big fan of Banjo but I do think he would be cool, wouldn't you like him in Brawl? He's worthy and unique as anyone. And I think nintendo "still" has some rights to him because he was there once. What ever.

 

[O D I N]

Banjo is owned by Rare, his chances are practically zero. However, that minute chance is still there.

RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He "was" on nintendo!!!!!!!!!!!! RRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HE BETTER BE!!!!!!!! RRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
lol
jk

I'm not really a big fan of Banjo but I do think he would be cool, wouldn't you like him in Brawl? He's worthy and unique as anyone. And I think nintendo "still" has some rights to him because he was there once. What ever.

There's still a hefty chance. Not large, but a bigger chance than most, considering Rare is now putting games out on the DS and have been putting Banjo games on the GBA for the last couple of years, even though they're owned by Microsoft.

 

[Chibirobo]

There's still a hefty chance. Not large, but a bigger chance than most, considering Rare is now putting games out on the DS and have been putting Banjo games on the GBA for the last couple of years, even though they're owned by Microsoft.

One can also always hope....

Here's a question for every one:Which(any how many) retro characters do you want for Brawl?

 

[O D I N]

Define how many. Do you mean 'who'?

 

[xianfeng]

Delete This Post, Accidental Double Post

 

[xianfeng]

I have to agree with him,he would be a very bad PC,and I would REALLY like to know why anyone would even consider giving him a spot.

Because he's popular he could have a very fun, weird and creative moveset. He is the ONLY main DK series villain and the DK series is pretty big for a nintendo series. He doesn't repeat himself in the games (aside from the Land games) he always tries something different, unlike Bowser who will now and then try something different but he will mainly do the same thing (Kidnap peach). In DKC he stole DK's Banana hoard, in DKC2 he kidnapped DK, in DKC3 he kidnapped DK and Diddy. In DK64 He kidnapped some of DK's friends and stole his banana hoard so he could distract him while he destroyed DK island, in DK:KoS he stole the medalians to piss of DK and his friends. See he tries new stuff.

And I think nintendo "still" has some rights to him because he was there once.

Nope, his new game is coming out on the 360.

considering Rare is now putting games out on the DS

Only two and the chances are the other one will be an enchanced DK64 port.

and have been putting Banjo games on the GBA for the last couple of years

Only two and because they were being made before the sellout, just released after it.

 

[Wiseguy]

I'd pretty much be reiterating everyone here (with exception to a few) if I said that Marth and Ike are different enough to warrant both of them being in the game. I'm not saying that Marth is coming back, but he has a sporting chance, especially after the Ike update. Besides, even though we have yet to see the other half of Ike's moveset, I highly doubt that the remaining two will mimic Marth's. My reasons for such are:

1) His Aether attack (like others have mentioned) looks to be a very vertical attack, meaning that his smash B will most likely be an attack with some horizontal movement, similar to Fox/Falco/Captain Falcon/Ganondorf.

I have wondered how Aether is going to work in the air. If he throws his sword, it's going to have to be done very quickly, unless he just floats there until he jumps up after his sword.

2) If his smash B is a horizontal recovery attack, that leaves his down B with the potential to be just about anything, as long as it is stationary. Theoretically, Counter could be used here, but with one special in the works that already negates attacks for a short period of time, I don't think Sakurai's going to give Ike another special that prevents him from taking damage/knockback. If he did, Ike could basically just spam these two moves and nearly never get knocked away or take damage (well, when playing someone of below or average skill level).

I think Sakurai will opt for a move with some more utility, such as a temporary buff to his damage, defense, or health pecentage. It seems that down B moves are usually the ones with some sort of "perk" attached.

These are all valid points, but I think I should bring this up:

Now granted, what Ike is doing in this screen could be anything. Maybe it's a guard move that will replace the bubble shield. Or maybe it's another new technic we are unaware of. Nut to me, it looks like it might be a counter move in the same vein as Marth's down B.

Or perhaps not. Granted, there is still a chance Marth will appear - but Sakurai's choice to reveal a newer (and you must admit to a certain extent, similar) Fire Emblem lord first sort of points to Marth being cut, since he was is the veteran character.

As for whether Ike will replace Marth, I think it more likely that he will be a kind of replacement for both he and Roy. In the sense that his might have Marth's "tipper" sword Roy's firey attack(s?) combined with greater endurance and slower attacks to make him more balanced.

Bear in mind it's only a theory, but one that I think fits the circumstances.

I swear to god if they nerf the knee imma be pissed. thats his KO man, he only has one so why would u take it from him?

Would you still be mad if they compinsated for this change by, say, removing most of the delay off the Falcon punch or by by adding extra power to his other aerials?

I suspect it would take some getting used to, but Sakurai did say that many characters would have a "slightly different flavor" this time around.

So throwing crowns, shooting cannonballs and boxing is nothing new for Brawl?

Hey, it's Xianfeng. Cool, I haven't seen you in this hive of scum and villiany for many a moon. Since I was but a smash noob, in fact.

Anyway, to answer your question: I don't really think so.

Crowns and cannonballs sound original on paper, but I'm not sure that they would make for a terribly unique moveset in practice. His crown would probably work similarly to Link's boomerang (at least how I envision it) and cannon ball are just bombs that can be thrown.

As for boxing, but that would work ever better for someone like Mac (from Puchout) or Mii (from Wii Boxing).

The Donkey Kong series is like the 4th or 5th best selling series and it's pretty big having quite a few games with 2 new ones being released soon so 2 characters is a real injustice.

It depends on how much the other series get, really. If Metroid gets only Samus/Zamus and Ridley, Fire Emblem gets Ike and one other (please be Black Knight, please be Black Knight) and lesser series like F-Zero and Easrthbound get one each, then I think two reps is for the DK series is fair.

The Custom Robo robots are like 1 ft. tall. They aren't exactly "giant"...

Shows how much I know. Thanks, I'll make the necessary change.

Because he's popular he could have a very fun, weird and creative moveset. He is the ONLY main DK series villain and the DK series is pretty big for a nintendo series. He doesn't repeat himself in the games (aside from the Land games) he always tries something different, unlike Bowser who will now and then try something different but he will mainly do the same thing (Kidnap peach). In DKC he stole DK's Banana hoard, in DKC2 he kidnapped DK, in DKC3 he kidnapped DK and Diddy. In DK64 He kidnapped some of DK's friends and stole his banana hoard so he could distract him while he destroyed DK island, in DK:KoS he stole the medalians to piss of DK and his friends. See he tries new stuff.

Is K.Rool really that popular? Granted, every knows who he is (as his series of origin is so popular) but I haven't run into too many K.Rool fans in my day. Yes, he is important enough that he COULD be included but I doubt if too many people would be outraged if he were MIA - unlike characters such as Diddy, Olimar, Ridley and Ike.

 

[Vali]

So Wiseguy, what is your take on this apparent "Sheik confirmation" that's been posted on IGN (along with Ganondorf)? I myself am still very much doubting that she/he/it/potatoe is confirmed yet since Brawl news has been very, very well kept and tight-lipped and I doubt that 2 Zelda characters would be allowed to be said before even a hint comes from Smash Bros. Dojo.

 

[Viroxor]

It's not unthinkable. Even the best contained systems have leaks.

But seriously, I don't think K. Rool would make it. Like I said, Ridley, Bowser, Kraid, and Leon are all better, even though two have virtually no chances of making it.

 

[RBinator]

As soon as I saw that one screen shot of Ike doing a move that kinda looked like counter, I just knew someone would say it's indeed counter and another step toward saying Ike would de-confirm Marth and Roy.

I don't think so. Sakurai said that the period of no knock back starts after Ike throws his sword. This means (most likely) that Ike can't be stopped once he starts the attack. So he'll only really be vulnerable if he misses or something, in which case he deserves to get hit anyway.
Personaly, I like this new addition to heavy characters, as certain heavy moves like Bowser's down B being stopped by weak stuff like a fan always seemed odd and unfair to me.

While my wording may not have been very clear, I never meant it to sound like my wording suggested that Ike would be unmovable at any given period. I followed that bit up right after the sentence where I mentioned Aether, believing that whatever I mention in the next sentence would have carried on without me repeating what I just said. I also didn't quite mention Ike being left open in a way that "it's cheap and shouldn't be done!", but rather, if he left himself open, then yeah, he deserves to get punished. Anyway, make no mistake about it, I read the updates carefully to make sure I get the details correct without making up something that isn't there or getting the details wrong. Thing is, if someone believes I get my information wrong, others can believe I think that same thing and thus, I'll look like some n00b who isn't looking at the updates carefully when that isn't really the case.

 

[OysterMeister]

These are all valid points, but I think I should bring this up:

Now granted, what Ike is doing in this screen could be anything. Maybe it's a guard move that will replace the bubble shield. Or maybe it's another new technic we are unaware of. Nut to me, it looks like it might be a counter move in the same vein as Marth's down B.

I think so too. Or, at least, I hope it's a counter move. The counter was a fun move both for Marth and for Roy in melee, and I've always felt that it perfectly fits the FE series for some reason. I'd be disappointed to see Ike or any FE character without a counter.
The only snag is that the centurion appears to just be, I dunno, sort of... bouncing off Ike's sword. Shouldn't Ike have already, you know, countered by this point in the picture?

Or perhaps not. Granted, there is still a chance Marth will appear - but Sakurai's choice to reveal a newer (and you must admit to a certain extent, similar) Fire Emblem lord first sort of points to Marth being cut, since he was is the veteran character.

It takes more than blue hair to be similar.

As for whether Ike will replace Marth, I think it more likely that he will be a kind of replacement for both he and Roy. In the sense that his might have Marth's "tipper" sword Roy's firey attack(s?) combined with greater endurance and slower attacks to make him more balanced.

Bear in mind it's only a theory, but one that I think fits the circumstances.

So the list of traits is tipper, fire, endurance, and slower attacks? Sorry to say, but most of those sound like Roy, not Marth. Roy was the one with the fire and the slower attacks. I wouldn't say either had great endurance, although Marth had a nice recovery (which Ike might not have, seeing as his third jump sends him crashing down).
The only thing that really sounds like Marth is the tipper, and that's only based on the widened end of the Ragnell. And that's only based on videogame logic; real swords with widened ends are used for cutting, since the weight from the larger tip allows for greater momentum, and even then you can only get the full effect of the cut if you use the middle of the blade.

I think a more likely theory is that Ike is a replacement/upgrade of Roy, seeing as it's with Roy that he seems to share the most traits. Hopefully, this won't hurt Black Knights chances too much, seeing as he'd have to be a third character in this scenario, but them's the breaks.

Crowns and cannonballs sound original on paper, but I'm not sure that they would make for a terribly unique moveset in practice. His crown would probably work similarly to Link's boomerang (at least how I envision it) and cannon ball are just bombs that can be thrown.

As for boxing, but that would work ever better for someone like Mac (from Puchout) or Mii (from Wii Boxing).

I think everyone seems to have the wrong focus when it comes to K. Rool. It's not that he's a boxer, or a pirate, or whatever temporary identity he's put on; it's that he's a crocodile that makes him appealing. Just as Bowser managed to grab quite a few shell attacks in Melee because he was a Koopa, so could Rool grab quite a few crocodile abilities. And what do crocodiles do? Crocodiles snap, they do that death roll thing, they attack with brutally quick lunges. That's cool stuff, right there, and I imagine in the hands of a heavy character these moves would translate into an awesome first-strike based moveset. I picture Rool having great openers with plenty of lag behind them. He'd have to hit with every attack, or he'd be left open to retaliation, just like in the games.

Is K.Rool really that popular? Granted, every knows who he is (as his series of origin is so popular) but I haven't run into too many K.Rool fans in my day. Yes, he is important enough that he COULD be included but I doubt if too many people would be outraged if he were MIA - unlike characters such as Diddy, Olimar, Ridley and Ike.

Well, I have run into a fair amount of Rool fans, but yeah I'd agree that most wouldn't lose sleep over his absence in Brawl.
Still, that doesn't mean he doesn't have a chance, or that he wouldn't be a great addition to the roster. Sure, Diddy, Olimar, and Ridley should get in first, but that doesn't mean K. Rool can't get in after them. Besides, the DK series might be worth a paltry three character slots.

 

[Dynamism]

Ridley? boo!!!!
Rool? whooooo!!!!
jk
seriously though, K.Rool would be a bran new style of fighting. And any new "style" (lunging quiclkly with lag IS probably the best option for Rool Msets) will simply add to Brawl, and K.Rool has STYLE!

 

[O D I N]

No offense to anyone here (and no one in particular), but I'm getting fed up with these, "Marth/Roy is confirmed/deconfirmed" posts (seriously, it's not just here. EVERY @#$%ing website I go to...). I can understand, that you want your favorite character back, and in new sexy Brawl graphics. But nothing has confirmed, or deconfirmed, anything. Until Sakurai or the game comes out and more or less says, "Marth/Roy will not be in Brawl", there is nothing to confirm them or not.


Again, not directed at anyone, but I needed to vent... :BREATHE:

 

[the grim lizard]

Newcomer:King DeDeDe
...

Sorry, I like mine better:

http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=2628367&postcount=177

 

[Bassoonist]

No offense to anyone here (and no one in particular), but I'm getting fed up with these, "Marth/Roy is confirmed/deconfirmed" posts (seriously, it's not just here. EVERY @#$%ing website I go to...). I can understand, that you want your favorite character back, and in new sexy Brawl graphics. But nothing has confirmed, or deconfirmed, anything. Until Sakurai or the game comes out and more or less says, "Marth/Roy will not be in Brawl", there is nothing to confirm them or not.


Again, not directed at anyone, but I needed to vent... :BREATHE:

Finally somebody that agrees with me!

I see a bunch of people saying "Marth will be gone for sure." and it's getting really annoying because it hasn't be confirmed.

 

[Copperpot]

Why stop there? This has been going on well before Ike was confirmed. Might as well say the same about Sonic, Megaman, Ridley, and virtually every other character that hasn't been announced yet.

 

[O D I N]

Why stop there? This has been going on well before Ike was confirmed. Might as well say the same about Sonic, Megaman, Ridley, and virtually every other character that hasn't been announced yet.

I'm not saying they don't have a shot, but nothing has been confirmed or deconfirmed. Just wanna clear that up a little (not particularly at you Copper).

But I agree, there's too little information saying whether or not a character has been confirmed or not yet.

 

[Creo]

Ahem...Tingle fits in there very, very, very well. K.Rool as well. If you people don't know to many K. Rool lovers than find the K. Rool for Brawl support thread. A Diddy isn't replacing a K. Rool that was a Mad Scientist, Boxer, and a Pirate. That is just too awesome. I personally say K. Rool > Diddy but don't get me wrong, I like Diddy...maybe both for Brawl. Wow, easy solution there.(don't critisize me if you took that wrong ODIN)

 

[O D I N]

Ahem...Tingle fits in there very, very, very well. K.Rool as well. If you people don't know to many K. Rool lovers than find the K. Rool for Brawl support thread. A Diddy isn't replacing a K. Rool that was a Mad Scientist, Boxer, and a Pirate. That is just too awesome. I personally say K. Rool > Diddy but don't get me wrong, I like Diddy...maybe both for Brawl. Wow, easy solution there.(don't critisize me if you took that wrong ODIN)

?

I'm not quite sure what you're saying there, Creo.