Prepare to be Astounded One Last Time: Wiseguy’s Brawl Predictions THE FINAL VERSION!

[Numa Dude]

I KNEW IT! I knew that Aether was his up B. I laugh at anyone thinking it was his Final Smash.

 

[Phaazoid]

I KNEW IT! I knew that Aether was his up B. I laugh at anyone thinking it was his Final Smash.

i still haven't gotten to the part where he gets aether... what chapter is it?

 

[Numa Dude]

i still haven't gotten to the part where he gets aether... what chapter is it?

You don't get it in a chapter. You have to give him the occult skill while he is a lord. Occult skills are pretty rare though.

 

[OysterMeister]

Haha, I knew there was no chance of Ike being similar to Math. Heavy character, huh?

On that note, seeing as I play quite a few heavy characters, I can say that I am pleased as a very pleased thing to hear that the heavy characters in Brawl can muscle through moves without flinching sometimes. Man, that's going to come in so handy...

 

[Phaazoid]

You don't get it in a chapter. You have to give him the occult skill while he is a lord. Occult skills are pretty rare though.

ok, how many are there total? (i want one for brom also)

 

[Numa Dude]

ok, how many are there total? (i want one for brom also)

I don't know. I know that you can get one in the level where you meet Astrid and I think Taureno (A general you can recruit) comes with one but other than those two I don't know where to find them.

 

[Wiseguy]

@ wiseguy

since this thread has morphed into an all out prediction discussion in every aspect of brawl

can you add a "how characters will fit in subspace emissary" zone

and do you think all characters in the plot will be an assist trophy or playable becaues if not that is yet another way to add runner ups (my guess is paletuna will only be in cut scenes)

It's an interesting idea. It should be fascinating to see how Sakuarai makes all 35+ characters fit in a story. I'll give it some thought.

This is a bad azz thread. Good ish, Wiseguy.


-Kimosabae

Thanks, I think.

I've decided to come up with a possible moveset for Isaac, full of psynergy moves from the game. It might be a bit gimmicky though.

===Newcomer: Isaac===

Isaac is the lead character from Camelot's Golden Sun series, "arguably be one of the best 2D-based Japanese RPGs created for any system. And yes, that includes Final Fantasy" (from IGN's review of the first game).

Let me preface with something on djinn in Golden Sun's battle system.
Djinn has three statuses during battle: set, standby, recover. When set, the djinni increases the character's stats, and the player is able to use its unique attack. After using it for an attack, it is set to standby. The character's stats go down, but the player is now able to use a summon, depending on how many djinn there are also on standby, and what elements they are. After summoning, the djinn are set to recover, and are unuseable for a certain number of turns. For example, if I summoned Judgment, which requires 4 djinn, one would take one 1 turn to recover, the next would take 2 turns, the third 3 turns, and the last 4 turns.

My idea is to implement that into Brawl in a way that would fit. Isaac would have four Venus djinn floating around him in the game, and they would slightly increase his speed and the power of his regular A moves, but primarily his smashes. Djinn can either be set or in recovery. When set, they float around Isaac and give him a slight stat boost. They can also increase the power of his final smash. For recovery, if Isaac used a final smash or a smash attack, one of djinn is put into recover mode and appears as a weakly glowing yellow sphere (to symbolize that it's recovering).

The more djinn Isaac has recovering at a time, the weaker and slower he is. Each djinni takes 4 seconds to recover. If a djinni is placed into recover and other djinn are already recovering, its recovery time becomes the recovery time for the last djinni in recovery mode plus 4 seconds. This would resemble the recovery system in the game after a summon, so they don't all recover right away. This becomes a disadvantage for Isaac as he can't spam smash attacks with impunity.

At full strengh, Isaac's neutral A, tilt A, dash A, and arial A moves are 1.5x as strong as they are when he has no djinn set, and he is 1.5x as fast. His smash moves are 2x as strong as they are when he has no djinn set.

Of course, you could remove the djinn element and still have a viable moveset.

===Stats (out of 10)===
Height: 5
Weight: 4
Attack Power: 3 to 7
Grab Range: 4
Running Speed: 4 to 6
Jump: 4
Falling Speed: 4
Traction: 6

===Neutral A===
A:
Isaac performs an angled, downward slash (as if he were writing 'X' in front of him). Low damage.

AA:
Isaac follows up with an angled, downward slash from the opposite direction (to finish the 'X'). Low damage.

AAA:
Isaac follows up by casting Push from his free hand. Low damage and knockback.
It would look something like: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Arteen/golden_sun/taiyo_psynergyart.jpg

Dash A:
Isaac runs at his opponent and performs a slightly angled downward horizontal swipe with low range. Low damage, decent knockback.

===Tilt A===
F-tilt:
Isaac performs a quick downward strike. Mediocre damage, slight stun, no knockback.

D-tilt:
Isaac thrusts his sword low to the ground. Mediocre damage, slight stun, small knockback.

U-tilt:
Isaac performs an overhead sweep with his sword. Mediocre damage, slight stun, some knockback.

===Smash A===
His smash attacks send one of his djinn into recover each use. If he uses them when he has all his djinni recovering, his attacks are significantly weaker.

F-smash:
With at least one djinni set: A djinni assumes its ethereal form and envelops Isaac's sword in an aura as he performs a sweeping horizontal strike with his it. The aura gives the sword essentially a slightly larger width and length, making it stronger and giving it more range. As an effect, the ground under the sword rumbles as Isaac swipes it, with an effect similar to energy balls in in anime when they graze the ground and separate it, except on a much smaller scale. Medium damage, medium knockback.
With no djinn: There is no aura or rumbling ground, resulting in lower damage and knockback.

D-smash:
With at least one djinn set.
A djinni assumes its ethereal form and envelops Isaac's swordless hand and Isaac opens his palm towards the ground and casts Spire. Stalagmites erupt out on either side of Isaac, and taper off after two swordlengths. The stalagmites do mediocre damage with small knockback and a slight stun.
With no djinn:
The stalagmites are slightly smaller, taper off sooner, and do less damage.

U-smash:
With at least one djinni set: A djinni assumes its ethereal form and envelops Isaac's sword in an aura as he lunges his sword vertically up. The aura gives the sword essentially a slightly larger width and length, making it stronger and giving it more range. As an effect, similar to Gaia in the game, tiny rocks, stones, and Venus energy are unearthed and flung into the air around Isaac as he lunges the sword. This slightly injures and stuns any opponent standing very close to Isaac.
With no djinn: There is no aura or rumbling ground, resulting in lower damage and knockback, and no damage or stun near Isaac.

===Arial A===
N-air:
Isaac performs a neutral arial kick similar to many other characters' neutral air attacks. Low damage, mediocre knockback.

F-air:
Isaac swipes his sword vertically in front of him, starting 45 degrees above to 45 degrees below the horizontal. Mediocre damage, low knockback.

D-air:
Isaac lifts up his legs and his swordless hand glows with energy, and after a half-second delay, he then he thrusts that hand down to cast Pound. It is a low damage meteor smash.

U-air:
Isaac thrusts his sword vertically up, for medium damage and mediocre knockback.

B-air:
Isaac quickly regrips his sword so he's holding it backwards and thrusts it backwards, then regrips it properly again. It does medium damage and medium knockback.


===B Moves===
B-neutral:
Isaac casts Ragnarok. He swipes angled downward in unison with an ethereal glowing red sword. Small knockback with a small stun an medium damage. It would take about a second overall with a short delay between allowed uses.
It would look like: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Arteen/golden_sun/1078007828_gs_lost3.jpg?t=1186084978 except that the angle of the sword would be shallower and the sword itself would be a little smaller.

B-forward:
Isaac uses Hover. It's essentially a more versatile wavedash. In the air, the player can quickly float staight horizontally either forwards or backwards a decent distance. The player is able to use it nearly instantly after jumping from the ground, allowing it to behave like a longer-length wavedash. On the ground, he rapidly slides forward a distance. Players can use A moves during it or escape it with a B move. It can be done once in the air, and the player isn't disabled after using it (unlike after using a B-up move), allowing the player to follow it up with B-up for help with recovering. If the player tilts backwards or forwards for a moment during the hover without
attacking, Isaac will turn that way.

B-down:
Isaac casts Growth. Thorny vines launch out in front of him, undulating in and out of the ground and kicking up dirt. The vines go up to 7 sword-lengths in distance and stop when reaching an edge. The move does nothing in the air. The vines do mediocre damage and no knockback, but they momentarily stun.

B-up:
Isaac's Sol Blade let's out a howl! Megiddo! Isaac's sword glows as he leaps up into the air with his sword out above him. If he doesn't hit anyone by the time he reaches the top of his jump, Isaac's sword loses its glow, and he lowers his sword while he falls, still going slowly forward initially due to momentum. If he does intercept someone, a glowing molten sphere of flame quickly forms and grows at the tip of his sword as he swipes it down on his opponent. While the flames engulf his enemy, his swipe gives him some extra momentum and he finishes his leap upward, then falls. The leap is relatively slow and somewhat parabolic, and can be angled slightly.

===Throws===
Grab:
Isaac reaches out with one arm to grab his opponent. He has a low reach.

Jab:
Isaac knees his opponent.

Forward:
Isaac uses Force with his swordless hand to launch the opponent forward in an arc. Medium knockback, mediocre damage.
It would look something like:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Arteen/golden_sun/taiyo_battle.jpg

Down:
Isaac throws his opponent down in front of him and uses Tremor to shake the ground below him, unearthing dirt and rocks. His opponent gets injured by the move and is knocked back. It does mediocre damage with low knockback.

Up:
Isaac opens his palms and uses a lifting motion to cast Lift on his opponent. Opponent accelerates upwards. If the enemy isn't at a very high % or if he hits a solid ceiling, he'll quickly decelerate and float helpless in the air for a short delay before falling, with almost no delay at 0% and it increase steadily in length to about 40 frames at 100%. It has low knockback and damage, but lift always goes a minimum of twice Isaac's height until it goes beyond that at around 50%.
It would look something like: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Arteen/golden_sun/taiyo_robinart.jpg

Back:
Isaac uses Carry to swing his opponent around to the other side, then casts Burst on him, causing him to fly back in a low arc. Mediocre but quick knockback, medium damage.

===Final Smash===
Isaac has 4 djinn around him, resulting in 5 levels of final smashes. For each of his four summons, he initiates it by slamming his fist into the ground, causing it to crack, while the necessary djinn rapidly revolve around him until they dissipate and the appropriate summon appears. Consequently, Isaac must initiate his final smashes from the ground.
It looks similar to: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Arteen/golden_sun/taiyo_procne.jpg

Four Djinn Set:
Judgment: Judgment appears above Isaac, aims his cannon down, then launches an energy blast into the ground causing a large spherical fiery explosion on the ground with a shockwave that extends out horizontally along the ground. The blast causes large damage and knockback (similar to the Bullet Bill in Peach's Castle in Melee), and the shockwave does small damage, quick stun, and no knockback.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Arteen/golden_sun/SummonJudgment.jpg

Three Djinn Set:
Cybele: Thorny vines sprout up all around Isaac, causing high damage with stun and little knockback.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Arteen/golden_sun/SummonCybele.jpg

Two Djinn Set:
Ramses: Enemies near Isaac are stunned while Ramses rains down boulders, and ends the attack with an explosion of psynergy. Medium damage, medium knockback.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Arteen/golden_sun/SummonRamses.jpg

One Djinni Set:
Venus: The Venus djinni appears in a large ethereal form and strikes the ground at Isaac's feet, causing an explosion of psynergy. Causes mediocre damage, mediocre knockback.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Arteen/golden_sun/SummonVenus.jpg

No Djinn Set:
Nothing: Nothing happens. Maybe you shouldn't have spammed those smash moves so much. If the player is presented with a smash ball but no djinn, he can either fend off opponents until he recovers djinn, or he can waste it to prevent others from using it.

I don't know what to do about taunts or victory screens, but those aren't quite as important.

Yet another awesome Issac moveset taunts me for not finding a place on my list for him yet....

Toad

Height: *
Weight: **
Attack Power: ****
Grab Range: **
Running Speed: *****
Jump: *
Falling Speed: ***

Basic Attacks:
A: Double Kick
Toad nearly topples backward by using a high kick. Pressing twice results in a double kick with powerful knockback, but Toad falls on his back in the process.

F-tilt: Flail
Toad flops forward, driving his mushroom head into the opponent. Good damage and knockback.
U-tilt: Defense Mechanism
Toad crouches down and releases spores above him, much like he does when defending Peach in SSBM. While the move doesn't pack much power or knockback, the move does have high priority.
D-tilt: Sweep Kick
Toad flattens out and performs a sweep kick. Damage is average and knockback is low, but the opponent is stunned.

Dash Attack: Last Resort
Toad runs forward frantically, flailing his arms about like Luigi. Knockback is low, but the damage can rack up with consecutive hits.

Smash Attacks:
FSmash: Game-Set-SMASH
Toad pulls out his rainbow racquet from Mario Tennis 64 and delivers a powerful slice, creating a flurry of bubbles and sending the opponent backward. The longer the Smash is charged, the higher the damage and the further the knockback.
USmash: Star Hammer
Toad pulls out his hammer from Mario Party 3 and swings it in an arc over his head. Low knockback but good damage.
DSmash: Victory Dance
Toad busts out his breakdancing skillz by spinning around on his head; think his post-goal dance from Mario Strikers Charged, or just Sheik's DSmash. The damage is good, but the move truly shines if the opponent is just above Toad at the time of execution. In such a case, the opponent is sucked down into a vortex-of-sorts and struck multiple times for exceptional damage.

Aerials:
Nair: Aerial Flail
Toad extends every limb in his body with a burst of energy, looking as if he were parachuting sans parachute. This flailing movement has two hitboxes: one at Toad's feet and another at his head and fists.
Fair: Fire Meteor
Toad emulates his Skillshot from Mario Strikers Charged, Fire Meteor. He kicks the opponent, setting him or her ablaze, and sending him or her off as a fireball at a very slight downward slope with good damage.
Uair: Star Wave
Toad pulls a star out of his pocket and raises it high above his head--or as high as his little arms can reach. This move has low knockback but fairly high priority and a minor electric shock effect.
Dair: Head Drill
Toad dives headfirst for the ground in a drill attack. Can deliver a few consecutive hits for low damage.

Special Moves:
B : Star Toss
Toad pulls a star out of his pocket (à la Mario Party and SM64) and lobs it. A simple tap launches a star with a high, skinny arc that ends close to Toad. The longer the move is charged, the flatter the arc and the further the star will travel.

Side B: Mushroom Kart
Much like Wario, Toad can pull his own vehicle out of thin air and put it to good use. Toad can turn around with a flick of the control stick. By pressing B, Toad uses a Golden Mushroom for a huge burst of speed. The boost can be utilized more than once, but a small pause occurs between each use, preventing uber-boosts. When Toad is hit, he is ejected from the kart, and the kart slows to a halt. Only one kart can appear onstage at the same time.

Down B: Pluck
Toad takes a page from Peach's book and picks an item from the ground; however, he performs the task with almost no lag, unlike the Princess. Toad's turnips are relatively strong, but the "Sad Turnip" does not appear, nor do the Bob-ombs, Mr. Saturns, or Beam Swords. Instead, Toad can randomly pick other SMB2 vegetables (pumpkins and radishes). Likewise, Toad can also randomly pluck a few other items from the ground: Bombs (from Wario's Woods), Hearts (SMB2 ones, which restore a middling amount of health, but nothing substantial), Mushrooms, Starman, Koopa Shells, and POW Blocks. The most elusive of items, however, is the Magic Potion, which allows Toad to enter a door into Subcon and move freely about the background of the stage invisibly for a few seconds. Toad can neither give nor receive damage, but his movement is unhindered while in Subcon. A few seconds later, he will reenter through another door where his hidden movement came to an end. To compensate for the huge benefits that this move could bestow upon our favorite mushroom, Toad occasionally will dig straight into the ground for a moment, leaving him open to attack.

Up B: Super Jump
Once again, Toad recalls a special ability from SMB2. He charges up briefly, glowing, and then leaps skyward with a burst of power. The vertical leap's horizontal movement can be controlled slightly. By charging even longer, Toad begins to flash and the move's height increases substantially.

Final Smash: Party Time!
Toad's Final Smash is an homage to his work as host for so many of Mario's "exclusive" parties. Everything comes to a halt with a spotlight on our beloved retainer. Toad pulls a dice block out of his pocket and--no, wait, two--no, three! The player selects which dice block will correspond to which opponent; an opponent can also fall victim to more than one block. Toad then hits the dice block, and confetti bursts across the screen with each hit. The following comprise the effects that correspond to each randomly-selected number:
1 - Dice Block. It drops down from above the opponent's head for small damage.
2 - Poison Mushroom. The opponent takes periodic damage for a few moments until the effect wears off.
3 - Fire Flower. The opponent is blasted with flames, racking up small but continuous damage.
4 - Tanooki Suit. The suit falls onto the opponent and he or she is instantly transformed into the Tanooki statue. He or she is frozen for a few moments.
5 - Lightning, the bane of Mario Karters everywhere. Strikes the opponent for noticeable damage. He or she is also stunned temporarily from the electric shock when play resumes.
6 - Chain Chomp. This crazy creature drops from the sky and sinks its teeth into the opponent. Strong damage.
7 - Bullet Bill. The notorious projectile veers down from the sky, swirling around the opponent before finally making explosive contact, causing substantial damage and knockback.
8 - Dizzy Dial. The opponent's control scheme is completely rearranged (ex: A -> Down, Up -> B) for a few moments.
9 - Toad Stampede. Many denizens of Toad Town and a collection of other assorted Toads crash the stage and trample all opponents for heavy damage.
10 - Bazooka! Toad pulls out his infamous weapon from SMRPG and blasts the opponent into the stratosphere. Instant KO, but quite rare.

Grabs:
Toad jumps and grabs onto the opponent's chest--or at their face, etc. The idea is that Toad latches onto the opponent.

Jab: Noggin Bash
Toad smacks the opponent with his sizable noggin.

Fthrow: Rolling Toss
Toad tips the opponent over, rolls forward, and tosses him or her forward.
Uthrow: Juggle
Toad falls backward, taking the opponent with him. In the process, he pops him or her up into the air with his fists. This is Toad's only weak throw, but the small knockback is useful for juggling.
Dthrow: Frenzy Stampede
Toad pushes the opponent over and stomps on them a few times in a frenzy, each successive stomp becoming more powerful.
Bthrow: Bicycle Kick
Toad falls backward, taking the opponent with him. He then kicks him or her backward.

Taunt:
Toad giggles and holds up the V for Victory. "Yeah!"

Winning Poses:
Winning pose #1:
Toad runs around screaming in a frenzy, frantic and frightened. He trips and appears shocked. After a moment, he realizes that he is all right and smiles at the camera. "*giggle*"
Winning pose#2:
Toad speeds into sight on his Mushroom Kart after a burst of glowing speed from the Golden Mushroom. "I'm the best!"
Winning pose#3:
Toad holds up a star and basks in its radiant aura. "Ooooh..."

I'm not too keen on Toad's chances, given his someon limitied importance in the recent Mario games, but I could definitely see this movset working if Sakuarai deemed him worthy of being of being included as a playable character.

This kid is so biased that this topic isn't even worth reading.

Don't tell me. Let me guess....

Marth player? Sheik main? Pokemon fan? A I getting warm?

On the subject of Fire Emblem characters..

with the latest evidence of Ike having a decidedly different moveset as well as being considered a 'heavy' character, I personally believe Marth's chances of staying in have improved dramatically. Thoughts?

I don't think it changes a whole lot. The replacements don't have to fill the character archtype they're filling in for.

I agree with Devastalian. Ike could still replace Marth as the Fire Emblem representative, eve if his moveset isn't a carbon copy of Marth's. Still, I'll admit that Ike seems different enough that Marth's inclusion is still a possibility.

It does look like Ike now has Roy's B attack, however.

sothe:

he is a rogue in fe 9 and fe 10

he have a main in fe 10

At first, I thought Sothe was a contender when he was shown as apparently the main character in Goddess of Dawn. However, since he is not a lord I somehow doubt if he will be that important to the story of GoD.

Haha, I knew there was no chance of Ike being similar to Math. Heavy character, huh?

On that note, seeing as I play quite a few heavy characters, I can say that I am pleased as a very pleased thing to hear that the heavy characters in Brawl can muscle through moves without flinching sometimes. Man, that's going to come in so handy...

Don't celibrae just yet, Oyster. All we for sure is that Ike has incredible endurance an (awesome) new triple jump and Roy's B move. He might still possess moves re-worked from Marth's moveset.

Still, I think we can all agree on one thing after today's update: Ike owns!

 

[Legolastom]

Wow have you noticed how high their up B's are? LOOK HOW HIGH HE THROWS HIS SWORD!!! Cant wait to try out the Mid air game in Brawl! (Seeing as Sakurai said he wanted that...).

But Ike is my favorite FE character by far! (Only one close is the Black Knight)...(Yes i am a Path of radiance fan)...(But i lost about 6 characters before the end of chapter 10 XD).

Cant wait to see how hgih the other characters jump as well.

 

[Masque]

I'm not too keen on Toad's chances, given his somewhat limited importance in the recent Mario games, but I could definitely see this moveset working if Sakuarai deemed him worthy of being of being included as a playable character.

I agree with Devastalian. Ike could still replace Marth as the Fire Emblem representative, eve if his moveset isn't a carbon copy of Marth's. Still, I'll admit that Ike seems different enough that Marth's inclusion is still a possibility.

It does look like Ike now has Roy's B attack, however.

Don't celibrae just yet, Oyster. All we for sure is that Ike has incredible endurance an (awesome) new triple jump and Roy's B move. He might still possess moves re-worked from Marth's moveset.

Still, I think we can all agree on one thing after today's update: Ike owns!

Glad you like the moveset! I really hope Sakurai sees the light and realizes that Toad has been around long enough to warrant his inclusion. It's just sad that he has been cast away in recent adventures. At least the Party and Kart series still acknowledge him.

I don't deny that Marth still has a chance; the only problem that I have is that I really don't see FE getting more than two reps in Brawl. The series itself just isn't big enough to necessitate that kind of representation. I would expect Ike and Black Night OR Marth OR Sigurd OR whomever.

I wouldn't say that Ike has Roy's B attack, either. Eruption looks more like a fiery version of DK's Hand Slap (Down B). Notice in the screenshot that his sword is firmly planted in the ground. (I guess this pretty much seals Roy's fate to Melee-only, huh? We really don't need another fiery swordsman...).

It can certainly be agreed upon, though: Ike looks pretty cool.

(Now just give us Peach already!)

 

[Ferro De Lupe]

Hmmm....

With Aether as his Up B, I wonder what Ike's Final Smash will be.

Also, Aeris, I absolutely love that Toad moveset.

 

[RBinator]

Marth player? Sheik main? Pokemon fan? A I getting warm?

Actually, he mains space animals and rarely plays as Sheik or Pokémon except for Pichu for the lulz. You're a bit warm on Marth however.

Now that we have something new that's character related to discuss, I don't think the screen shot of Ike's B move is clear enough to say it works like Roy's Flare Blade. The only other hint toward that is that it can be charged up.

On the other hand, Aether does favor Ike not being a Marth clone, but that doesn't automatic mean Marth is more likely to return. From what I'm seeing, Ike looks like he'll be a bit wide open which while he won't suffer any knock back, I can easily see him getting hit by a move like Yoshi's dair or Peach's (should she return of which I have little doubt) down smash. Hmm... unless Peach's down smash gets really toned down, Ike's weak point could easily eat the entire move for massive damage.

 

[Masque]

Hmmm....

With Aether as his Up B, I wonder what Ike's Final Smash will be.

Also, Aeris, I absolutely love that Toad moveset.

Gwahhh, well thanks!

(Er, I forgot to give him a BAir! Silly me...I should fix that.)

About Ike, though: I'm not at all familiar with the FE series. Perhaps GoD will include some new special skill for Ike to utilize...?

 

[RBinator]

As for Ike's B move, does he have anything of the sort in FE: GoD? I don't remember such a move being in FE: PoR. If the move isn't in GoD, that proves they can still make up moves for characters.

There isn't by any chance Ike is gonna be a combination of Marth and Roy's move set with some of his own moves thrown in? That's still not to say Ike will be a Marth clone or Marth is automatic getting the boot, I just randomly kinda thought of that.

 

[Legolastom]

Isnt explosion a fire type magic spell? But they can take moves from other characters as well.

 

[LukeFonFabre]

While it could be roughly based of one of the fire type anima spells, I certainly don't recall one called 'eruption', though that might be because it isn't a direct take of one. It's kind of odd that Ike uses it though, seeing as he's earth affinity and rarely uses fire based attacks (which were blue if I recall anyway), so it I'm not too sure where Sakurai got the idea from. Still, it isn't really replacing Roy's Flare blade, as besides 'teh phire' and charging aspects they seem to work quite differently.

What I am wondering though is if Aether allows you to aim the sword somewhat, because at the moment it doesn't look like Ike would handle recovering horizontally well at all.

 

[RBinator]

What I am wondering though is if Aether allows you to aim the sword somewhat, because at the moment it doesn't look like Ike would handle recovering horizontally well at all.

If that's the case, I guess Ike would kinda have a Luigi style recovery, minus the green missile. From those screen shots, it does look like he jumps pretty high in the air. Hmm... that could be one of Ike's weaknesses, lack of horizontal recovery after using up B. But then again, we're not in charge of this, but there might actually be some basics behind this.

 

[OysterMeister]

On the other hand, Aether does favor Ike not being a Marth clone, but that doesn't automatic mean Marth is more likely to return. From what I'm seeing, Ike looks like he'll be a bit wide open which while he won't suffer any knock back, I can easily see him getting hit by a move like Yoshi's dair or Peach's (should she return of which I have little doubt) down smash. Hmm... unless Peach's down smash gets really toned down, Ike's weak point could easily eat the entire move for massive damage.

I don't think so. Sakurai said that the period of no knock back starts after Ike throws his sword. This means (most likely) that Ike can't be stopped once he starts the attack. So he'll only really be vulnerable if he misses or something, in which case he deserves to get hit anyway.
Personaly, I like this new addition to heavy characters, as certain heavy moves like Bowser's down B being stopped by weak stuff like a fan always seemed odd and unfair to me.

And while Ike not being a Marth clone doesn't really mean Marth will return, it does mean that the argument that Ike can replace Marth as a character is now invalid. Maybe Ike will replace Marth as a FE rep, but that's the same as saying that Marth won't return, so there's really no point to saying it anymore. With what we know (or can infer) now, Marth being cut would rob Smash bros of both a popular character AND a popular moveset (like it or not Wiseguy, you know it's true). It's the oddity of such a choice that is Marth's biggest practical reason for returning.

 

[Vali]

Wow, Wiseguy is such a tool for having Captain Olimar on his predicted character list.

And now for something completely different. I noticed that your list of runners up is a bit mangled Wiseguy, hopping from like 6) to 12) or something like that, could fix that for a bit of continuity. Your character list is still going strong (despite the er...Deoxys mistake ^^), here's hoping for the Black Knight to pop up now eh?

 

[Wiseguy]

And while Ike not being a Marth clone doesn't really mean Marth will return, it does mean that the argument that Ike can replace Marth as a character is now invalid. Maybe Ike will replace Marth as a FE rep, but that's the same as saying that Marth won't return, so there's really no point to saying it anymore. With what we know (or can infer) now, Marth being cut would rob Smash bros of both a popular character AND a popular moveset (like it or not Wiseguy, you know it's true). It's the oddity of such a choice that is Marth's biggest practical reason for returning.

Call me crazy, but I'm not totally convinced of that. All we've seen are two moves. For all we know, the rest of the moveset could be inspired by Marth's, or at least be similar enough as to be called a replacement. I'm sorry if I sound pig headed, but that's just what I think.

One point in Marth's favor, however, is that Ike is much heavier - so there might just be a niche for Marth to fall into.

Wow, Wiseguy is such a tool for having Captain Olimar on his predicted character list.

Wait.. your not Vali! What have you done with Vali?!?!?!

And now for something completely different. I noticed that your list of runners up is a bit mangled Wiseguy, hopping from like 6) to 12) or something like that, could fix that for a bit of continuity. Your character list is still going strong (despite the er...Deoxys mistake ^^), here's hoping for the Black Knight to pop up now eh?

Fixed. I know, I know my beloved thread is is dire need of a facelift.

 

[Vali]

Wait.. your not Vali! What have you done with Vali?!?!?!

I hadn't filled my quota of sarcasm for the day, needed to lay it on pretty thick as I'm sure you can tell. *Goes back to oiling the giant Olimar robot*.

Fixed. I know, I know my beloved thread is is dire need of a facelift.

You ain't doing too badly considering it's almost 5-6 separate threads combined. I'm just wondering what you're gonna do when you run out of space. Pretty sure you can't overflow without reserved spaces :x.

Seems a lot of people are taking the invincibility thing as for the entire move. However as Oystermeister did, they're omitting the "right after" part of the entire sentence, which indicates that it's very limited invunerability, and I should think that it lasts only as long as it takes to get Ike into the air (since he seems to be posing at either the beginning or end of a jump and I'm betting on the former). I'm also betting on so far Ike being a Roy replacement, but as Wiseguy said that doesn't mean that Marth is in (even though I do hope so). You see, Roy being a Marth clone they both have similar movesets anyway. It wouldn't be a stretch of the imagination to have both movesets combined into one blue-haired lord that has a fiery sword and a tipper at the end. Just a thought.

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

hey wise guy shouldnt you add the stsges that have been confirmed your list?

 

[OysterMeister]

Call me crazy, but I'm not totally convinced of that. All we've seen are two moves. For all we know, the rest of the moveset could be inspired by Marth's, or at least be similar enough as to be called a replacement. I'm sorry if I sound pig headed, but that's just what I think.

One point in Marth's favor, however, is that Ike is much heavier - so there might just be a niche for Marth to fall into.

Yeah, it's pretty pig-headed, but no one ever said you weren't allowed to be stubborn.
Truth be told, I'm kinda hoping that Ike DOES have a few moves adapted from Marth. The counter worked well (if slightly cheaply) for Marth, it worked for Roy, and I hope it will work for Ike, since it just seems like such a perfect move for a FE character to have. And, sure, Ike could have completely new sword attacks, but vertical slices work so well in a 2 and 1/2 -D game like Smash Bros...
But I don't think that Ike having these moves would change anything, as the final nail in the coffin came with the hint that Ike was (or would act like) a heavy character. A heavy character (or one that acts like a heavy character) can't act as a replacement for a not-heavy character; no more so than Roy or Ganondorf could substitute for Marth and Captain Falcon in Melee.

You ain't doing too badly considering it's almost 5-6 separate threads combined. I'm just wondering what you're gonna do when you run out of space. Pretty sure you can't overflow without reserved spaces :x.

Open up a new thread. Call it Wiseguy 2: Secret of the Ooze or something.


...
Also, can I just take this time to say once again how happy I am that some heavy moves can now just muscle their way through attacks? Seriously, that's really great news for all of us who like to play heavy characters.

 

[Devastlian]

But I don't think that Ike having these moves would change anything, as the final nail in the coffin came with the hint that Ike was (or would act like) a heavy character. A heavy character (or one that acts like a heavy character) can't act as a replacement for a not-heavy character; no more so than Roy or Ganondorf could substitute for Marth and Captain Falcon in Melee.

Is it really such a requirement to fill up the SSBM archtypes, though? I mean, if they take out ten characters would everyone just burst into tears if ten of the newcomers didn't fall neatly into that gap instead of, maybe, 24 new types of characters. The returning characters are changing anyway, so it's almost pointless to think we'd just be able to slip into the same or a new replacement with much adjustment.

 

[OysterMeister]

Is it really such a requirement to fill up the SSBM archtypes, though? I mean, if they take out ten characters would everyone just burst into tears if ten of the newcomers didn't fall neatly into that gap instead of, maybe, 24 new types of characters. The returning characters are changing anyway, so it's almost pointless to think we'd just be able to slip into the same or a new replacement with much adjustment.

What? No, I wasn't saying that at all. I'm just saying that Ike can't replace Marth, and thus the suggestion that Marth won't be coming back because Ike can replace him is a fallacy.

I don't WANT characters to be replaced, that seems like a waste of both an older character and a newcomer. Which is why I'm against the idea that Ike is somehow the new Marth. I'd much rather have the new Ike AND Marth. That's my stance on this.

 

[Viroxor]

On an unrelated note, I'm going to have to request that everyone who wants Wolf O'Donnell in Brawl, and has him listed as "Star Wolf" in their sig list, change it right now. One of my pet peeves is people referring to Fox and Wolf themselves as Star Fox and Star Wolf.

Star Fox=Fox, Falco, Slippy, Peppy, Krystal
Star Wolf=Wolf, Leon, Pigma, Andrew, Panther

PLEASE get that right.

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

lol all right virox i get it, ill change it

 

[YosterDragon]

Also, can I just take this time to say once again how happy I am that some heavy moves can now just muscle their way through attacks? Seriously, that's really great news for all of us who like to play heavy characters.

A-freakin'-men! I always thought it was unfair that characters like little Jiggs could out muscle the likes of DK and Bowser. Ah, Brawl, you cannot come soon enough.

 

[Devastlian]

What? No, I wasn't saying that at all. I'm just saying that Ike can't replace Marth, and thus the suggestion that Marth won't be coming back because Ike can replace him is a fallacy.

I don't WANT characters to be replaced, that seems like a waste of both an older character and a newcomer. Which is why I'm against the idea that Ike is somehow the new Marth. I'd much rather have the new Ike AND Marth. That's my stance on this.

Oh...Well, I guess my arguement was more for the people arguing that reason. If Ike is intended to replace Marth, he's replacing him as the primary FE character, not the somewhat light and floaty swordsman whose sword gives him good range, is most effective at maximum range, and has a good a grab range. Likewise he'd replace Roy out comparitive relevence to the FE series and his popularity, not because one of his moves causes his sword to create flames or he has a fast freefalling speed.

Spoiler

Ya know...if he's slow and strong, wouldn't that imply he's a replacement for the slower and stronger one (Marth) instead of the faster, weaker one (Roy)?

 

[Super Smash Master]

There won't be clones or Bowser Jr. o_O Your list isn't that great. I don't see why it got so many views.

 

[Elysium]

There won't be clones or Bowser Jr. o_O Your list isn't that great. I don't see why it got so many views.

I hope that doesn't start a clone stampede discussion.....

Oh and smashboards wouldn't let me post since friday.. wtf

 

[Inkslinger]

Because he updates them daily (ish) and is stubborn, thus causing controversy and debate. So little by little ppl got used to debating here hence high number of views.

 

[Shuma]

It's the best list i've seen, well... it has my most wanted characters .

 

[Dark Sonic]

While it could be roughly based of one of the fire type anima spells, I certainly don't recall one called 'eruption', though that might be because it isn't a direct take of one. It's kind of odd that Ike uses it though, seeing as he's earth affinity and rarely uses fire based attacks (which were blue if I recall anyway), so it I'm not too sure where Sakurai got the idea from. Still, it isn't really replacing Roy's Flare blade, as besides 'teh phire' and charging aspects they seem to work quite differently.

Well, there is the Bolgannone spell.

ok, how many are there total? (i want one for brom also)

There are 4 Occult Scrolls. I normally use them on Ike, Oscar, Gartrie, and Astrid.

 

[LukeFonFabre]

That does seem the most similar technique, but why it's called eruption then is sort of confusing.

 

[Wiseguy]

I hadn't filled my quota of sarcasm for the day, needed to lay it on pretty thick as I'm sure you can tell. *Goes back to oiling the giant Olimar robot*.

You ain't doing too badly considering it's almost 5-6 separate threads combined. I'm just wondering what you're gonna do when you run out of space. Pretty sure you can't overflow without reserved spaces :x.

Seems a lot of people are taking the invincibility thing as for the entire move. However as Oystermeister did, they're omitting the "right after" part of the entire sentence, which indicates that it's very limited invunerability, and I should think that it lasts only as long as it takes to get Ike into the air (since he seems to be posing at either the beginning or end of a jump and I'm betting on the former). I'm also betting on so far Ike being a Roy replacement, but as Wiseguy said that doesn't mean that Marth is in (even though I do hope so). You see, Roy being a Marth clone they both have similar movesets anyway. It wouldn't be a stretch of the imagination to have both movesets combined into one blue-haired lord that has a fiery sword and a tipper at the end. Just a thought.

Yeah, that's pretty much my opinion in a nutshell.

hey wise guy shouldnt you add the stsges that have been confirmed your list?

Urgh... yes I should CFM, yes I should. Unfortunately, I have a rare condition that makes it difficult to work. It's called "lazyness"

Seriously, I'll get around to it soon enough.

There won't be clones or Bowser Jr. o_O Your list isn't that great. I don't see why it got so many views.

I'll tell you what, give me a valid reason for why Baby Bowser won't be playable and why not a single clone will appear, and I will edit my list accordingly.

 

[O D I N]

Random thought, that I'm sure was brought up...

Sakurai's update stated that some heavy characters won't "flinch" when they're hit using their special up move.

Does this mean I can't Nazi stomp(Ganondorf's Dair) noobs anymore???

 

[Archyp Cosh]

Hmmm, lots of people are wondering about that temporary "invincibility" in Ike's move. After reading the update a few times, I figure it's until he grabs his sword. I mean, if you throw an important part of your moveset into the air and then get knocked away, what would happen to the sword?

At least that's the way I saw it.

 

[O D I N]

Hmmm, lots of people are wondering about that temporary "invincibility" in Ike's move. I'd like to say that I figure it's until he grabs his sword. I mean, if you throw an important part of your moveset into the air and then get knocked away, what would happen to the sword?

At least that's the way I saw it.

Good observation. That makes perfect sense, actually.

 

[Copperpot]

I'd pretty much be reiterating everyone here (with exception to a few) if I said that Marth and Ike are different enough to warrant both of them being in the game. I'm not saying that Marth is coming back, but he has a sporting chance, especially after the Ike update. Besides, even though we have yet to see the other half of Ike's moveset, I highly doubt that the remaining two will mimic Marth's. My reasons for such are:

1) His Aether attack (like others have mentioned) looks to be a very vertical attack, meaning that his smash B will most likely be an attack with some horizontal movement, similar to Fox/Falco/Captain Falcon/Ganondorf.

I have wondered how Aether is going to work in the air. If he throws his sword, it's going to have to be done very quickly, unless he just floats there until he jumps up after his sword.

2) If his smash B is a horizontal recovery attack, that leaves his down B with the potential to be just about anything, as long as it is stationary. Theoretically, Counter could be used here, but with one special in the works that already negates attacks for a short period of time, I don't think Sakurai's going to give Ike another special that prevents him from taking damage/knockback. If he did, Ike could basically just spam these two moves and nearly never get knocked away or take damage (well, when playing someone of below or average skill level).

I think Sakurai will opt for a move with some more utility, such as a temporary buff to his damage, defense, or health pecentage. It seems that down B moves are usually the ones with some sort of "perk" attached.

 

[Ferro De Lupe]

1) His Aether attack (like others have mentioned) looks to be a very vertical attack, meaning that his smash B will most likely be an attack with some horizontal movement, similar to Fox/Falco/Captain Falcon/Ganondorf/Luigi.

2) If his smash B is a horizontal recovery attack, that leaves his down B with the potential to be just about anything, as long as it is stationary. Theoretically, Counter could be used here, but with one special in the works that already negates attacks for a short period of time, I don't think Sakurai's going to give Ike another special that prevents him from taking damage/knockback. If he did, Ike could basically just spam these two moves and nearly never get knocked away or take damage (well, when playing someone of below or average skill level).

I think Sakurai will opt for a move with some more utility, such as a temporary buff to his damage, defense, or health pecentage. It seems that down B moves are usually the ones with some sort of "perk" attached.

I'm thinking that the Smash B will be the wave of energy that Ragnell releases when it attacks at a distance.