PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Vixen]

Because I have a tendency to lose to falcos who are less solid than me as a whole. I'm really that bad at the ditto. XD

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

ive asked this probably before but does buffered spot dodge beat marth fthrow regrab while a normal control stick spotdodge does not
some one link a clip of buffering and **** cuz i hear commentators bein like "clutch buffered roll by scar" and i dont understand it

 

[Xyzz]

Buffering just allows you to do it on the first possible frame without actually being good at timing.
You could just as well hit the control stick away and press shield on the very frame you are actionable again... but if you input it too early you'll just stand there angling your shield away from Marth, which makes you look kinda unimpressive as he regrabs you.
With the c stick you can just have the action you want to take buffered to take place as soon as possible (this also applies to shield pressure where if you want to roll away frame perfectly you could either input the roll frame perfectly or just slam the c-stick over any time during shield hit lag (is this the right term? I keep forgetting :D)).

 

[BTmoney]

Shield stun :] but yeah good post, saved me an explanation and probably said it better lol

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

w

Buffering just allows you to do it on the first possible frame without actually being good at timing.
You could just as well hit the control stick away and press shield on the very frame you are actionable again... but if you input it too early you'll just stand there angling your shield away from Marth, which makes you look kinda unimpressive as he regrabs you.
With the c stick you can just have the action you want to take buffered to take place as soon as possible (this also applies to shield pressure where if you want to roll away frame perfectly you could either input the roll frame perfectly or just slam the c-stick over any time during shield hit lag (is this the right term? I keep forgetting :D)).

wait so your saying i can input a roll during stun and the game reads my input on the first frame

thats ****ing broken as ****

 

[Xyzz]

Yeah, getting to have at least some frame perfect OOS responses is pretty cool... Well, they can't be spammed too hard, because if you get predictable with rolls / spotdodges no amount of perfection in execution is going to safe you from getting punished, so keep that in mind and don't overdo it.
But if you do decide to roll out of shield pressure in a given situation, you really should buffer it.

 

[BTmoney]

w
wait so your saying i can input a roll during stun and the game reads my input on the first frame

thats ****ing broken as ****

it's not THAT much better than normal rolling, sometimes it might not even make a difference. but it is good.

 

[S.D]

I have a couple of questions.

1/ When I played Mango a while back now in Falco dittos, he got a lot of shine OOS > combo on me when I did early aerials. Does anyone know when this is possible/reliable to do? And do you have to shield upward to absorb the hit stun earlier? Any light that could be shed on this would be nice.

2/ Whenever I play Marth I find some new situation I suck at. Most recently what to do when caught in shield on the fringes of stages (esp small stages) against a close spaced Marth (in range of say Fsmash). I tend to get stuck there occasionally after maybe shielding a spaced forward b... if you try to laser you can get hit, roll in you get grabbed, go to platform isn't so great. I've tried WD out for ledge and go from there but it's not so great either.. what do other people do here? Just hold up shield and take a grab if they want it?

 

[Xyzz]

1) I assume he managed to shine you before you shined him after your aerial? And what exactly are "early" aerials? Do you hit him while still rising? Then it's possible without angling the shield upwards or anything. The closer you get to a perfectly late aerial, the harder it obviously gets to get something in between your aerial and shine.
Angling the shield upwards can certainly help (especially if it causes the other guy to miss his fast fall or sth, then shine OOS gets pretty easy to time ), but mostly it's as usual the question who of you two is closer to frame perfection with his timings... You might actually be advantaged depending on how "not too early" your aerial was placed, but if you really jump and start a aerial as soon as possible, you're at a huge frame disadvantage.

2) If the stage and your position allows it, fulljump > side-b cancel on the top platform > drop off that one > waveland off the side platform > turnaround laser (or a simple bair, depending on the Marth's position) is tons of fun :D But really, just fullhopping is rather good to get out of some tough spots, because Falcos fulljump is totally broken :D (you can get to the top platform, or just fade back towards your initial spot again, you could land on the side platform instead, you can attack from it or try to air dodge through his attempts to catch you coming down, you have the option to fast fall or not to fastfall... it's really a lot of things, that can be a lot harder to cover than desperate attacking OOS options or rolls which can't even travel the full distance).


edit: oh and I learned both simply shine OOS in the first place and waveshine OOS today <3
I don't really get what's harder for people to do waveshine than simply any kind of grounded shine OOS. I'm not perfect with the later or anything (far from it), but if I get it, I manage the wavedash out of it part every time.

 

[S.D]

I'm more interested to know when shine OOS becomes possible on a shielded aerial (before shine) and whether it is a reliable response to shield pressure. I've played around with it but generally can't get it out between aerial and shine. Whether this is because there aren't enough frames to do it or I'm too slow or w/e.

By early I mean just not really delayed aerial to shine. Not rising just standard shffl.

 

[BTmoney]

I'm more interested to know when shine OOS becomes possible on a shielded aerial (before shine) and whether it is a reliable response to shield pressure. I've played around with it but generally can't get it out between aerial and shine. Whether this is because there aren't enough frames to do it or I'm too slow or w/e.

By early I mean just not really delayed aerial to shine. Not rising just standard shffl.

http://www.smashboards.com/threads/shield-pressure-frame-data.278616/
http://www.smashboards.com/threads/...roject-updated-8-13-07-now-with-color.109595/

those should help

And Falco has 4 (or 5, can't remember) frames of jump squat and shine hits on frame 1 of 1. so yeah

 

[Bones0]

Buffering just allows you to do it on the first possible frame without actually being good at timing.
You could just as well hit the control stick away and press shield on the very frame you are actionable again... but if you input it too early you'll just stand there angling your shield away from Marth, which makes you look kinda unimpressive as he regrabs you.
With the c stick you can just have the action you want to take buffered to take place as soon as possible (this also applies to shield pressure where if you want to roll away frame perfectly you could either input the roll frame perfectly or just slam the c-stick over any time during shield hit lag (is this the right term? I keep forgetting :D)).

Actually, buffering after throws is a frame late because you have to get your shield up before the roll/spotdodge/jump is inputted. You can theoretically just roll on the first possible frame with the control stick without shielding. Also, rolls, spotdodges, and jumps OoS have a 3-frame buffer with the control stick so they aren't even that bad if you're comfortable with the timing. That being said, I'll still take the buffer every day of the week, especially because it leaves my control stick to tilt my shield or DI (stuff I mention a lot, but I think it's important).

As far as shield hit lag, that's not a thing. I mean I guess you could specify shield hit lag as being hit lag while in shield, but it's kind of irrelevant. But yeah, you can input a buffered roll any time your character is incapable of rolling, whether that's landing lag, attack cooldown, or in the case you described, hitlag or shield stun from an opponent's attack.

2/ Whenever I play Marth I find some new situation I suck at. Most recently what to do when caught in shield on the fringes of stages (esp small stages) against a close spaced Marth (in range of say Fsmash). I tend to get stuck there occasionally after maybe shielding a spaced forward b... if you try to laser you can get hit, roll in you get grabbed, go to platform isn't so great. I've tried WD out for ledge and go from there but it's not so great either.. what do other people do here? Just hold up shield and take a grab if they want it?

It sucks, but you just have to play chicken with him. Light shield so your shield lasts longer and any attacks will push you onto the ledge. If you think you have a chance to FH to freedom, go for it, but just be ready to DI (I recommend FHing OoS with the control stick so if he just happens to fsmash right when you jump you will already be DIing up). If you see him make a move towards you like he is going to grab, you will either have to spot dodge or roll. People tend to really commit to grabs when they see you light shielding because most people who light shield bank on their opponent attacking and won't react to run up grabs. Don't be most people. Make sure you use the C-stick any spotdodges or rolls so if he does land a hit on you, you are free to DI with the control stick. You will want to roll in much more often than spotdodge at the ledge because even if he catches your roll, oh well. From there he can either uthrow you into a combo where you'll be able to at least fight for your life with platforms, or he'll usually dthrow in which case you should always be going for a slideoff onto the ledge. If you spotdodge and he fsmashed or did a bunch of other stuff at just a slightly different timing, suddenly you are being pushed off stage. WD back onto the ledge is really good, but of course if they call it you'll get destroyed with horrible DI. Even if they dtilt you are pretty screwed. Despite that, most Marths don't like to attack Falco's shield right as he stands up from a knockdown near the ledge, so I will often WD onto the ledge immediately and just be ready to DI asap.

Really though, you should be able to avoid this scenario most of the time. Really focus on sliding off onto the ledge any time Marth is doing his fthrow/dthrow shenanigans. Usually when you land by the ledge, you could have just slid off and prevented the whole scenario. If you couldn't go far enough to slide off, then you probably should have DIed towards the center of the stage to stay away from the ledge, and that would give you some retreat options out of the chicken scenario (roll back, primarily, but all of the other options are less risky simply because you are further from the blast zone). Overally, just be patient with your options when you're forced to play chicken, but also don't hesitate. If your gut tells you to do something, just go with it and your gut will adjust to what's working and what isn't. Just be careful you're not developing any habits based on a not-so-smart opponent. You don't want to hold shield forever vs. someone in tournament because your training partner always throws out an fsmash right away.

I'm more interested to know when shine OOS becomes possible on a shielded aerial (before shine) and whether it is a reliable response to shield pressure. I've played around with it but generally can't get it out between aerial and shine. Whether this is because there aren't enough frames to do it or I'm too slow or w/e.

By early I mean just not really delayed aerial to shine. Not rising just standard shffl.

You just have to get the feeling for when you have enough time to shine OoS. Fyi, shine OoS is only 1 frame faster than shield grabbing, so any time you feel like you have enough time to grab, you have enough time to shine. There isn't really a "standard" SHFFL timing. People frequently alter the timing of their aerial, FF, and spacing (which affects how high they are when they make contact with your aerial in the first place). That's kinda what's so cool about Melee though. There's a million tiny variations of everything.

 

[S.D]

Yeah I've found it's kind of a feel thing when they miss their fast fall... I'll try upload a recent GF set vs Marth for critiquein a couple of days time.

 

[stabbedbyanipple]

HEY PEEPEE!

I've been trying to contribute more and help out all the other birds, so please do me a solid and give me some critique vs Peach LOL

This is the most recent set I have vs Peach. I do win, but the first match I get pooped on and the rest of the set is extremely close.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CTWOr9dTRg - vs Baka4moe

Peach is definitely my least favorite matchup. I've had decent results vs her lately, but I'm not confident going into a set vs basically any Peach worth their salt. So any general things I could do, or any specific stuff I'm not doing, I'm down to hear it all.

If others want to take a crack at it too, go ahead. I'm all ears.

 

[BTmoney]

HEY PEEPEE!

I've been trying to contribute more and help out all the other birds, so please do me a solid and give me some critique vs Peach LOL

This is the most recent set I have vs Peach. I do win, but the first match I get pooped on and the rest of the set is extremely close.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CTWOr9dTRg - vs Baka4moe

Peach is definitely my least favorite matchup. I've had decent results vs her lately, but I'm not confident going into a set vs basically any Peach worth their salt. So any general things I could do, or any specific stuff I'm not doing, I'm down to hear it all.

If others want to take a crack at it too, go ahead. I'm all ears.

well firstly why did you strike to FoD, already curious about that lol. Lucky for you peach is eons away as my best MU but too bad for you I play Marth or Fox against peach lol. Don't really know ish about it as Falco, I'm still learning that. I'll watch though and give you my opinion, which you should marginalize although I will try to be sincere and objective.

 

[stabbedbyanipple]

I don't like dreamland cuz if I **** up early, then the lead feels insurmountable because of how long she can live. Don't like FD cuz chaingrabbing. FoD I'm never really sure about, but I struck there vs him in winners of the same tourney and won on it, so there's that.

 

[Prince_Abu]

shine grab is good vs peach

 

[BTmoney]

I don't like dreamland cuz if I **** up early, then the lead feels insurmountable because of how long she can live. Don't like FD cuz chaingrabbing. FoD I'm never really sure about, but I struck there vs him in winners of the same tourney and won on it, so there's that.

Here's a few things.

• As a space animal, the peach MU is won or lost at the low percent game (and on the ledge but that's not important right now). Or at least a lot of the MU comes down to that. I saw a few bad nairs and dairs at low percent (like 0-12%) that got CC'd into a dsmash or were punished due to bad spacing by dsmash. I say never ever nair peach at low percent but hey, people do it. You might as well just dair since it can't be CC'd. Now there were a couple times when you did dair peach at low percent but you dair'd through her and either shined too far away or went for a utilt, or did nothing because you were just kind of behind her in an awkward spot lol. And you got dsmashed for it, I believe you had your utilt CC'd once as well into a dsmash. I think when you want to play at the highest level and be comfortable in a MU you want to take away all options or make the game as unplayable as you possibly can for your opponent. At low percent, you have lasers, dair, shine, and grab. Those can't be CC'd and those are your tools. Stick to them. Now when you do dair peach at low percent. you want to dair ON her. If you dair through her at low percent she can get you with dsmash further than you might think even though you crossed her up (which did happen a few times in the match, but I suppose if you do dair through peach and wind up behind her at low percent then you should shield or dash away because a dsmash is coming). If you dair on her and she shields it then just shine grab imo. You really just want to get out of that low percent battle. If she's in the air, you can nair her and stuff, I'm not that comfortable speaking on the ground to air game versus peach yet so yeah.
• You didn't opt for a shortened illusion until the second game on FD. If the ledge is open, you want to get to it. Don't allow peach to edge guard you on reaction (i.e. high up B) because she can cover a LOT on reaction or at least tip the odds heavily in her favor. If the ledge is open, I'm going to keep on shortening it until they do something different. It is sort of strange because shortened illusion really only works a lot of the time because it is a coin flip that makes you give up option coverage. Usually when you shorten, you either fake side B'ing onto stage or you are in a position to go for a high up B but you shorten to the ledge instead and they were not expecting that. I am having a hard time communicating how good shortening is in a lot of situations lol but I know that you left that option on the table a lot although I can't articulate it.
• You didn't punish a dsmash with wd OOS once
• You CC'd a bunch of dsmashes
• You jumped into one dsmash on PS during a transformation while she was on a platform which is a no-no
• There were some strange moments when peach was floating and you fired lasers repeatedly and none hit her (because she's floating lol) and all you really accomplished was having her encroach your space. Once again with Falco I'm not comfortable with the anti-air game and grounded footsies versus peach's float but as Marth I either fair or run underneath the float or with Fox I just run away (because peach won't ever catch you lol) or FH nair peach when she is in the air. Not sure what Falco has in that situation.

Yeah that's my attempt. Don't know a ton about Falco versus Peach I can explain more if you want

shine grab is good vs peach

looool gtfo abu uglyass space animals :]

 

[Bones0]

You might as well just dair since it can't be CC'd

I hate when people say this. I don't know where it comes from either. Yeah, dair is better than nair vs. CCing, but you'll still get CC dsmashed if you don't late dair them at lower %s. That just stuck out to me. I'll read the rest and critique the set later. I've been looking forward to watching some more Falco vs. Peach because I feel like I've had a bit of a breakthrough with it recently. Only major thing I feel like I'm missing vs. Peach and other floaties is my throw game, so I'm eager to work on that the next time I get to play.

 

[BTmoney]

I hate when people say this. I don't know where it comes from either.

Well, what is the point of nair'ing a grounded peach at low percent? I think it comes from that.

 

[Xyzz]

If Falco only tries to dair grounded Peach at low percent, I like jumping into them with nair. If he does it early, he'll win, but I just get re-grounded without needing to tech because of the low percent and proceed to downsmash, which usually is out faster than anything he can do. If he does it late, my nair will clip him.
So that's kinda why I personally feel nair has its merits against low percent peach, because it'll beat her jumping into Falco.

@Stab: If you're interested in my opinion:
I feel you should work on getting consistent punishes on dumb stuff he does. He got away with whiffing downsmashes and even dash attacking your shield a few times (DA on shield is such a free punish, you really shouldn't miss that EVER).
Also a rather fundamental approach to the matchup: Try to be as safe as possible; Peach strives on your mistakes if you don't feed her any, she'll have to work really hard to beat you (e.g. make sure she can't move out of the way of your approach and downsmash to punish your whiffing aerial too easily; make sure you only shoot safe lasers (a hitting one doesn't get you much, but a bad one will easily lead to 30-40% extra percent on you if nothing worse); or general decisions like the edgeguard attempt at 11:08 (sure that can work out quite fine, but you really risk losing your stock for nothing. Baka really would've had an easy time to bair you out when you tried to come back in, so the actually good situation would've easily been turned around on you)).

Speaking of stuff like that edgeguard: Some specific things I just feel like pointing out:

11:36 He's committed to float, and you firefox straight into the path of his fair. I'd rather see whether he really can catch you buffering a roll after you go straight over his head. But it's of course Peach, and she's really good at covering a lot of things, so it's probably mostly a question of what you deem him most likely to screw up and the up b to the ledge can be tricky to hit indeed.
12:32 That f smash is you trying to throw the game. For no reason. It wouldn't even have killed or anything and could've easily cost you the game... I feel like repeating it: Be safe. She can't do too bad things, if you don't give it to her. And that one was just you asking to get CGed to up smash kill / nair > edgeguard.
12:37 DA on shield. Sure, you're probably breathing a big sigh of relief that you get to live, but that's no excuse to not punish her for doing it
14:00 It's grounded Peach. She is crouch canceling; always, always, always. I'd really recommend against trying that kind of up tilt.
15:00 He has already shown you three times before in your set that he is air dodging out of that kind of up b attempt. So I'd much rather try jumping at him (maybe after faking to do so) and trying to catch him with an uair / bair. If you can get him to try and airdodge against those you can easily punish him afterwards.

I'll stop here because I'm the laziest person ever and not sure if you're even interested in those in the first place.

 

[Mogwai]

Actually, buffering after throws is a frame late because you have to get your shield up before the roll/spotdodge/jump is inputted. You can theoretically just roll on the first possible frame with the control stick without shielding. Also, rolls, spotdodges, and jumps OoS have a 3-frame buffer with the control stick so they aren't even that bad if you're comfortable with the timing. That being said, I'll still take the buffer every day of the week, especially because it leaves my control stick to tilt my shield or DI (stuff I mention a lot, but I think it's important).

as far as I remembered it was only a frame late for jumping since rolling and spotdodging are actions that can only be done out of shield, but it's been a long time since I cared about that **** soooo I would double check before taking my word for it.

 

[BTmoney]

If Falco only tries to dair grounded Peach at low percent, I like jumping into them with nair. If he does it early, he'll win, but I just get re-grounded without needing to tech because of the low percent and proceed to downsmash, which usually is out faster than anything he can do. If he does it late, my nair will clip him.
So that's kinda why I personally feel nair has its merits against low percent peach, because it'll beat her jumping into Falco.

I understand that and I've thought about that actually but that seems to just be more of a conditioning and guessing game, I wouldn't call nair a safe mix up.

 

[Xyzz]

It's a weighted RPS like almost everything... I mostly wanted to say that you cannot count out nair completely.

 

[ElloEddy]

nair a low % peach and you will get down-smashed. and eat 20-40 dmg maybe more....lol .

this works for me though since alot of peachs will wreck you with a d smash for a nair on her at low %

DAIR HER at low % then grab f-throw ...GUARANTEED unless you dont l-cancel then you will get down smashed and be sad =[

- dair again / shine grab if she block ( react in case she buffer a roll )

if shine hits dair her then uptilt /etc/ pillar .... or proceed to start a combo how ever you like ..

or just f-throw into nair shine ..cause by then she should be floating a bit and not land right away


just what i do ..it works..i play peaches alot sadly =/ ..lol like 5-6 of them and there solid above average players

also things i do if you get peach with a dair around 30-40 ....late fair ...F-SMASH works as a off guard thing send her of stage at a low angle so maybe you can get an early kill off the fact they didn't expect it ...

and at high dmg since its annoying to kill peach i would try to get her blocking and bait a nair out..d-tilt = DEAD peach under 50835% lolits so hard to kill her i hate that mu cause of that

 

[ElloEddy]

shine grab is good vs peach

its a life saver lol ..cause you will get wrecked for playing on peach shield

 

[Bones0]

as far as I remembered it was only a frame late for jumping since rolling and spotdodging are actions that can only be done out of shield, but it's been a long time since I cared about that **** soooo I would double check before taking my word for it.

You might be right because I don't know for sure, but I think if you are frame perfect it works the same as grabs. People who use L/R to grab can still grab without shielding first, so I'd imagine it's the same for rolling and spot dodging. Jumping is definitely different because you can't input shield and jump on the same frame (though I'm not sure which would occur, I'm guessing you would jump). Splitting hairs either way. I shouldn't have bothered bringing it up.

 

[Dr Peepee]

HEY PEEPEE!

I've been trying to contribute more and help out all the other birds, so please do me a solid and give me some critique vs Peach LOL

This is the most recent set I have vs Peach. I do win, but the first match I get pooped on and the rest of the set is extremely close.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CTWOr9dTRg - vs Baka4moe

Peach is definitely my least favorite matchup. I've had decent results vs her lately, but I'm not confident going into a set vs basically any Peach worth their salt. So any general things I could do, or any specific stuff I'm not doing, I'm down to hear it all.

If others want to take a crack at it too, go ahead. I'm all ears.

Aight I respect that Stab haha.

I watched the first 5 seconds and decided that a good starting matchup overhaul would benefit this critique more, then I could go to specifics lol.

Okay, so Falco wants to get Peach on the ground, shoot her, and ideally get that Dair/Shine into combo or at least rack some damage until she's launched and then you can Bair/Utilt her. Peach avoids this with dash attacking your lasers, floating, and occasionally PS'ing. Sometimes shielding. Mostly floating. Your job is to keep her grounded or catch her when she lands and punish/control her for being grounded. You are faster than her.

I think most Falcos kind of freak out when Peach floats and then even if they avoid the inevitable Fair they just want to hit her when they finally have some control. You just need to remember that Peach is slow and usually wants to at least stall the pace of the match somewhat.

When she floats, just remember that the easiest way to counter her float is to go high like a top platform. Peach can't really affect you there unless she super calls it. Once there, you can fall and laser and attempt to re-establish control again but don't go in super hard always even if you get control because Peach likes counterattacking and Falco likes attacking(usually with less payoff for doing so) so you have to be smart about it sometimes lol.

Using platforms is actually kind of good in this matchup because it lets you shoot Peach's ideal float height. I suggest playing around there since you're safe there mostly anyway.

If you find yourself without platforms or think Peach is catching on, then clever use of DD/WD and lasers(and sometimes Utilt/Bair but I couldn't tell you EXACTLY how best to use those so I'll leave that out) can force her to Fair early and you could shoot her and get control/damage. If Peach comes in too hard you can counter her with the aforementioned moves and even on her landing you can shoot it or attack it as long as you're intelligent about it. Challenging the float directly is just usually the problem. You have to manipulate that and force her to come into your move or give up stage space when she's doing it.


That all said, let's do some specific moment critiques....

0:48- Dair at that low percent is bad because of what happened. Just Nair or don't do any damage immediately and you can be safe and set up a better punishment.

0:59- I understand why, but you didn't really have to do that grab. Laser control is fine here.

1:02- I know it's hard, but you have to try and move because holding shield vs Peach is the WORST thing you can do lol. The only other worst thing is doing the same thing over and over when you realize this lol.

1:20- No need to go up so quickly. You would have gotten very little reward anyway. Threaten with Bair and Utilt and see if you can keep hitting her until she tries an airdodge or attack option that gives you a Dair/shine opportunity. There's no reason to go in so hard just because you had an opportunity. Patience, even in small doses, goes a long way vs floaties.

1:48- Double jump? You were high enough from a FH.

2:19- Gotta wait for Peach to lean back up a little before shining....this is why you can't really afford to go nuts vs her(or anyone really but we could argue that's more true vs Peach.) If you're worried about your timing then just double Dair or grab.

3:52- You keep doing those Bairs pretty close to Peach's shield. Either swing early to hit her landing or swing late to pressure(or swing farther away so you can't be grabbed lol.) Bair is pretty risky vs Peach because of her dash attack so I don't recommend it often when you're both grounded.

4:09- LMAO heck yeah

You have a strange tendency to keep trying something when you get close or do lots of moves. There's really not a need for that. You're much safer after connecting a move than you think. Example is at 4:15. Had Peach dashed back there instead of trying to force her way in(wtf) with jab then you would have been combo food.


Most of the issue seems to be you trying to hit Peach the second you think there's an opening and you die for it. I suggest patience and also probably learning some "untrue" combos that work well vs her. Things like Utilt walk Utilt when Peach is at a lower percent and she's airborne or something.

 

[Vixen]

Hey stab, if you're ok with me commenting on it, I have years and years and years of silly kyle experience if you want my feedback.

 

[stabbedbyanipple]

Thank you very much PP & others! Wrote down and internalized all the advice.

Also I think I could definitely extrapolate at least some of the stuff you said about Peach to the other floaties as well. I'm decent vs Puff/Samus but they're certainly not my forte haha

 

[S.D]

DR PEEPEE and other Falco peeps. Hoping you can provide some feedback for me on a recent vs Marth set. Not too concerned with random tech flubs, more just overall play/strategy vs Marth. Anything appreciated, knowledge will be used to spank people at Evo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bBI0NhY3oA

 

[Bones0]

That all said, let's do some specific moment critiques....

Hey doctor, how much for a 30-minute session on day 1 of Zenith? I have a Zenith curse that needs curing. Symptoms include getting exposed by spacies and Sheik.

 

[Vixen]

I have a out of state curse myself: Losing to Falcos.

PP, I've been to like 3-4 tournaments you've been to, but we've never spoken/played. Would you like to correct that? ^_^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB8uxZW5c8o new vids vs jetfour. super need critique.

 

[BTmoney]

Any insight on dealing with Fox platform camping?

 

[Bones0]

Any insight on dealing with Fox platform camping?

I mainly laser, wait in the center to utilt/avoid and punish bad approaches, and FH rising aerials onto the top plat. I don't have much nuance with these tactics, unfortunately. I'm still working on how to do them properly.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Any insight on dealing with Fox platform camping?

Why is Fox platform camping? What does he want from it? How is he trying to bait you into some stupid ****?
Answer those questions and then do the exact opposite.

 

[Squirt]

Hey guys I was wondering if anyone has some insight on how to do this shield pressure thing I've seen mango do to a lot of marths. He approaches and hits them with a dair, shines on their shield and hops out of his shine into retreating nair. This baits a grab which he punished with an fsmash since he is out of range. I just can't seem to move backward while nairing after shining on the shield, I can nair but I usually get shield grabbed before I can get another shine off. Can anyone give me advice on how to do that, I'm sure this technique would greatly enhance my shield pressure game.

 

[Xyzz]

nair -> shine -> press x -> hold away before jump squat finishes (but make sure it's AFTER pressing x so you don't get the awkward shine turnaround) -> release x before jump squat finishes (we don't want fulljumps now, do we?) -> after the jump begins move the control stick to the middle and hit a -> move it back away so you get maximum fading distance.
You can practice the retreating part without shining before if that's easier to you (it probably is), or use dair instead of nair so you can hold away the whole time (nair somehow makes people attempt more badly spaced OOS responses for some reason though).
Also: Falco does some backflip when he does a backwards jump, so you can easily see if you have succeeded in doing one. And they are probably necessary most of the time to get out of shield grab range; just neutral jump -> fadeaway usually is not enough, especially against Marth.

 

[S.D]

Generally you won't fastfall the fadeaway nair (or dair/bair they all work) which is what prompts them to grab, when people see/feel you 'miss' the fastfall their immediate response is to grab, especially near the ledge, which makes this so effective.

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

Any insight on dealing with Fox platform camping?

yo

mordecai wud main falco
rigby play a fox
skips- dk
pops- peach (gay)
benson aka Wobbles the phoenix (ics)

this list is pretty debatable but honestly i think i got it right