Purpletuce
Smash Lord
I said it is overrated, not unnecessary. As in people make a bigger deal of it than they need to. Sorry Rocketpowerchill, but that is wayyy to true. I laughed too much.
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PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Dr Peepee
- Start date
Rocketpowerchill
Smash Ace
lol stab i uploaded a video of westballz as a reference to shining people in shields and how hit stun nd that stuff works
no where did i say i want to ride westballz ****
this is why people think falco boards suck when random n00bs come in and say "i wanna do this quadruple shine pressure"
whatever
i thought you did a pretty nice job on the mic this weekend stab ggs no salt
no where did i say i want to ride westballz ****
this is why people think falco boards suck when random n00bs come in and say "i wanna do this quadruple shine pressure"
whatever
i thought you did a pretty nice job on the mic this weekend stab ggs no salt
Bones0
Smash Legend
If you're getting stuck in shine, it's because you are jumping too soon, not too late. You have about half a second to jump out of shine before you it automatically "unshines" and your jump input gets lost. You can jump from a shine held even longer than that, but you can't let go of B, so for most people that means you have to jump with the control stick or claw. So yeah, just delay your jump a little to make sure you are jumping after shield stun is completely over (but still as fast as possible), and make sure you aren't turning around by accident because that can also cause you to get stuck.
Cummings
Smash Apprentice
How can turning around get you stuck? It doesn't cause any lag does it?
Bones0
Smash Legend
Not sure. I could be confusing cause and effect now that you made me think about it, but people who get stuck in shine definitely tend to just shine turn around (like Mango did a while back when his controller was messing up). That might just be a result of them trying to jump back or bair or something though. Someone should test (I'm too lazy atm).
ElloEddy
Smash Journeyman
as in tech reasonable falco tech skill stuff lol ..like falco wise ..shine grab , double shines , westshine , shield... drop shine bair etc ...fast movment platform stuff all that ...im not being cocky or nothing ..... i been tryna slow it down so i can learn better cause being technical lead to alot of flubs and bad things for me since im not experienced , and PC drops are amazing lol
ElloEddy
Smash Journeyman
practice.....i can do it as well am a good amount of others , i literally practice some of those things for 2+ hours every day and still think i mess up to much to try it alot ... just practice lol these things didnt happen overnight for wes he put that work in thats why he's the most technical falco
ElloEddy
Smash Journeyman
aww smucker your far to kind....i choke alot of Shield drops though like when it counts ...ill be able to shield drop all amazing for like 30 mins then just mess them up in tourney
oukd
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2010
- Messages
- 1,464
pc hogging isnt that technical and its a pretty good option vs edgestalling. lots of sheik stocks have been lost to sneaky pc hogs
on the other hand if the opponent just goes back on stage it means you're being edgeguarded
but usually that doesn't happen, and if they do theyre usually forced to upb into landing lag for free punish
@elloeddy westshining is a far cry from 'reasonable' tech lol
on the other hand if the opponent just goes back on stage it means you're being edgeguarded
but usually that doesn't happen, and if they do theyre usually forced to upb into landing lag for free punish
@elloeddy westshining is a far cry from 'reasonable' tech lol
ElloEddy
Smash Journeyman
thanks for the advice , ...imma get to working on thing .....i get told i play to scared , and should just go in ....i need to get over my fear of getting grabbed / gimped hopefully that will help my approach , it sucks playing in the defensive ny place where ppl just wait there hardest for a spacie to mess up lol ......and i just suck at comboin'g shiek/ floaties ..... only good at comboing fastfallers its thanks to cpu' faox/falco/falcon . thanks again you give great adivice
BTmoney
a l l b e c o m e $
Lol no well don't exactly go in I think that's an equally bad mindset. When I first started I had an issue with giving my opponent too much respect. Now I don't respect any opponent until they display the ability to deal with certain things. (just for an example, don't think anything like "oh this guy is really good so I won't pressure his shield" whether he's good or not we are all playing with the same frames in the same game)
Just be confident
If you're getting grabbed from shield then try switching up to pressure strings that cannot be grabbed or shine grabbing earlier
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
Yeah, 'westshining' is just proving my point.
I think that shine turn around takes one frame, so if you input a jump on that frame, nothing happens. I think.
I think that shine turn around takes one frame, so if you input a jump on that frame, nothing happens. I think.
Xyzz
Smash Champion
Friend of mine recently advanced frames in the emulator to test a few things; this was among them. Shine turnaround takes 3 frames. So if you try to jump within three frames of shieldlag (i always confuse that terminology... I mean the time you and your opponent can't do anything after your move hits his shield) being over, but accidentally input a turnaround, that'll eat up the jump.
I think the most common cause is trying to jump back and moving the stick earlier than entering jump squat and the best practicing thing imho is to just do that lvl1 handicap9 50% damage bowser shield pressure training a bit.
Bones0
Smash Legend
Can you clarify? Does it actually take 3 frames for Falco to turn around in shine? Because immediately after that you begin talking about hitlag (when you and your opponent are frozen in place). You can't JC ANY shine until frame 4, so if turning around simply ran through those first 3 frame animations again, that would make sense.
Xyzz
Smash Champion
It takes Falco three frames to complete turning around in his shine and be able to act again.
If that's due to not being able to JC shines before frame 4 in general and being stuck in that animation again or due to some special turnaround animation I don't know (it doesn't really matter though, does it?).
If that's due to not being able to JC shines before frame 4 in general and being stuck in that animation again or due to some special turnaround animation I don't know (it doesn't really matter though, does it?).
Rocketpowerchill
Smash Ace
how come you can jump out of a shine before hit lag? so you can do things out of shine if you beat lag?
Swann
Smash Journeyman
You... can't? That's why it's hitlag.
Xyzz
Smash Champion
Gah, let's have a sample breakdown:
What you want to do:
0 stuff (like dair l cancel lag ends)
1 Shine, Hitlag
2 Hitlag
3 Hitlag
4 Hitlag
5 Hitlag
6 jumpsquat
7 ...
What can happen is:
0 stuff
1 shine, Hitlag
2 Hitlag
3 Hitlag
4 Hitlag
5 Hitlag
6 turnaround
7 turnaround
8 turnaround
9 you could jump here
If you happen to input your jump during the turnaround lag, because you don't expect it to happen, the input will get lost, and you'll sit in your shine looking pretty.
(Don't quote me on the number of hitlag frames. That shine is stale, mkay? :D)
What you want to do:
0 stuff (like dair l cancel lag ends)
1 Shine, Hitlag
2 Hitlag
3 Hitlag
4 Hitlag
5 Hitlag
6 jumpsquat
7 ...
What can happen is:
0 stuff
1 shine, Hitlag
2 Hitlag
3 Hitlag
4 Hitlag
5 Hitlag
6 turnaround
7 turnaround
8 turnaround
9 you could jump here
If you happen to input your jump during the turnaround lag, because you don't expect it to happen, the input will get lost, and you'll sit in your shine looking pretty.
(Don't quote me on the number of hitlag frames. That shine is stale, mkay? :D)
KP17
Banned via Administration
what are yall's opinion on teching fox's shine? in which specific situations is it useful?
Cummings
Smash Apprentice
I wonder what Falco looks like on that second frame of the turnaround. Is he just staring straight at you? lol.
Rocketpowerchill
Smash Ace
good stuff and thanks, i will link some matches soon, feel like my worst mu is shiek lol, most awkward char to combo and ****
Bones0
Smash Legend
That's not correct because shine is out for 2 frames after hitlag.
Rocketpowerchill
Smash Ace
this frame data and stuff is good but i wanna play melee so badd, so i guess where do you go from now, i guess pm me md smash or something?
Bones0
Smash Legend
You should have went to Sypher's on Saturday... Idk when I can play because I'm finishing up school, but join the FB group and I'm sure you can find people to play with (ones who will be closer than me anyway).
Rocketpowerchill
Smash Ace
whats it called? md/va smash?
Bones0
Smash Legend
It tends to work pretty well in "option select" type defensive situations like Fox hitting you with Dair or hitting your shield with an aerial and is close to you.
I wouldn't try it by the edge too much because you can die, but teching Fox's shine is pretty awesome often if you can because then you don't get tech chased and die.
KP17
Banned via Administration
Ok. if you do it by the edge and slide off the stage instead of grabbing the ledge, are you always in a worse position than on the ledge? because wouldnt you then have the option to DJ immediately and try and get to a side platform (esp on yoshis)? Idk just wondering, although i feel like fox and falco have advantage at the ledge because of invinc. ledgedashes
It's mostly because you could press the button wrongly and airdodge offstage and die lol. Even if you don't tech you usually still grab the edge so it's okay.
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
kevin your shine techs are too good. i can't try any of the fun thunders **** against you because you somehow end up behind me shining me after i shine you. it's bull****.
also, you ain't good boy.
also, you ain't good boy.
no idea what ur talkin about man =)
FrootLoop
Smash Lord
there's a fox around here that just tech chase grab on reaction if you tech back towards fox. I'd recommend teching away if possible or in place to try to get a head start on the situation
Yeah tech in place is usually what happens when I do it and it's what I recommend too. Tech away is pretty easy too if you can remember to (shield) DI Fox's stuff away anyway.
Bones0
Smash Legend
I did these in Training Mode, so they were done with no DI, meaning all the lasers hit, and there's no DI on the lasers either.
PEACH:
- Uthrow uair combos from 10% - 200%.
JIGGLYPUFF:
- Uthrow uair combos from 0% - 189%.
- Bthrow dair combos from 44% - 73%.
- Dthrow turn around utilt combos from 0% - 155%.
- Fthrow ftilt and fthrow dash attack combo on Puff at 0%.
PEACH:
- Uthrow uair combos from 10% - 200%.
JIGGLYPUFF:
- Uthrow uair combos from 0% - 189%.
- Bthrow dair combos from 44% - 73%.
- Dthrow turn around utilt combos from 0% - 155%.
- Fthrow ftilt and fthrow dash attack combo on Puff at 0%.
Were the throws all fresh?
Bones0
Smash Legend
I did some stale and just continued lowering/raising the percent because I figure if it combos stale then it will combo fresh, but I always made sure to attempt a fresh throw before confirming I had the smallest or largest percentage that comboed. I will go back and double check real quick.
Okay, I was definitely off by a lot for the low end of uthrowing Peach (I had 18%, but I just comboed it at 10%). Idk if that was me going too slow or if I forgot to check it fresh. What's weird is I can combo at 10% with a stale uthrow, but not with a fresh one... It might just be me being inconsistent though.
Thanks.
Don't think Dthrow turnaround Utilt really combos on Puff they all know to hold away at this point and the throw takes forever. I'd sooner Usmash out of Dthrow if they weren't DI'ing.
It's good info to have, but I'd like to also test it with DI on throws and lasers and mixing in no DI on one or the other lol. There's a lot of opportunities for shenanigans rofl.
Don't think Dthrow turnaround Utilt really combos on Puff they all know to hold away at this point and the throw takes forever. I'd sooner Usmash out of Dthrow if they weren't DI'ing.
It's good info to have, but I'd like to also test it with DI on throws and lasers and mixing in no DI on one or the other lol. There's a lot of opportunities for shenanigans rofl.
Bones0
Smash Legend
Yeah, I realize they can just DI away or tech, but Training Mode considers it a combo so I just figured I'd throw it in there. Jiggs is so light that you can actually get away with it sometimes. Or at least I was able to do a bunch of dthrow shenanigans on Mahone, but he did say no other Puff would miss the tech. lol And yeah, I usually usmash after dthrow anyway.
Apparently bthrow dair combos on Jiggs (no DI of course, but still). I'm gonna update the first post.
Apparently bthrow dair combos on Jiggs (no DI of course, but still). I'm gonna update the first post.
Yeah Bthrow Dair is a sweet trick vs Puff on no or in Di starting around 60%. Super good trick.
Bones0
Smash Legend
Yeah, I use it vs. Marth a lot because when he DIs in, he DIs off the lasers and stays close enough for you to dair him past the ledge.