Little England
Smash Master
I like to dtilt a lot against ICs. It's safe all the time and does wonders splitting them up. Other than that just split up Nana and don't miss L-cancels like you said. You will lose fast if you miss L-cancels lol.
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PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Dr Peepee
- Start date
Swann
Smash Journeyman
Offhand...
DD a lot, try and stuff their movement options by threatening with spacing and lasers
Control the ground because that's what they want to control
Dtilt more
Kill nana as fast and effectively as possible
Don't do laggy stuff that will put you in a position to get grabbed
Use upthrow instead of fthrow (ICs don't have good hitboxes below them in the air)
DD a lot, try and stuff their movement options by threatening with spacing and lasers
Control the ground because that's what they want to control
Dtilt more
Kill nana as fast and effectively as possible
Don't do laggy stuff that will put you in a position to get grabbed
Use upthrow instead of fthrow (ICs don't have good hitboxes below them in the air)
stabbedbyanipple
Smash Master
Some stuff that has helped me a lot vs ICs
- You don't have to hit Nana way off the stage to kill her. It's way easier to hit her off a medium distance and just edgehog her predictable double jump to the ledge.
- Abuse platforms. Make them come at you in the air and it's easy to maneuver around it and shine them.
- Take advantage of the fact that Falco's shine will always send them far away from each other when they're too early percent for other moves to do it
- No matter how aware the IC player is, if you catch Nana slippin' then you can run up shine and ruin their stock right there lol. Honestly, run up shine invalidates like the bottom 80% of IC mains if you do it right hahaha
- a little specific trick: when they're recovering in laser range, try and snipe nana because the hitstun will cause them to not do their recovery together.
- Despite what the d00d above me just said about grabs, fthrow is perfectly fine and dthrow is definitely one of the best options imo. However if you grab Nana instead of Popo when they're together, none of your throws are actually safe, but unless you're playing an amazing IC player then you can usually get away with it
- When ICs are separated but still close, you want to quickly get Popo out of the way (grabs/shines/tilts work well here), then push nana in the OPPOSITE direction towards the ledge with like a bair or some ****. From that point, you want to alternate between pushing nana to her death and putting popo in positions that will take him a while to come back from.
- When you're just fighting Popo, main thing to watch out for is WD dsmash or fsmash
- You don't have to hit Nana way off the stage to kill her. It's way easier to hit her off a medium distance and just edgehog her predictable double jump to the ledge.
- Abuse platforms. Make them come at you in the air and it's easy to maneuver around it and shine them.
- Take advantage of the fact that Falco's shine will always send them far away from each other when they're too early percent for other moves to do it
- No matter how aware the IC player is, if you catch Nana slippin' then you can run up shine and ruin their stock right there lol. Honestly, run up shine invalidates like the bottom 80% of IC mains if you do it right hahaha
- a little specific trick: when they're recovering in laser range, try and snipe nana because the hitstun will cause them to not do their recovery together.
- Despite what the d00d above me just said about grabs, fthrow is perfectly fine and dthrow is definitely one of the best options imo. However if you grab Nana instead of Popo when they're together, none of your throws are actually safe, but unless you're playing an amazing IC player then you can usually get away with it
- When ICs are separated but still close, you want to quickly get Popo out of the way (grabs/shines/tilts work well here), then push nana in the OPPOSITE direction towards the ledge with like a bair or some ****. From that point, you want to alternate between pushing nana to her death and putting popo in positions that will take him a while to come back from.
- When you're just fighting Popo, main thing to watch out for is WD dsmash or fsmash
Bones0
Smash Legend
I was testing with ICs the other day and noticed Nana will always DJ back to the ledge right as her head dips below ledge height. Knowing this can make gimping her with a laser a lot easier since you can time it perfectly, and if she was far enough out then you have avoided having to edgehog her (which often leads to Popo being able to up-B save her).
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
Maybe it is just me, but I've had trouble focusing on Nana too much (thinking you can throw in a quick D-air to kill her) and Popo can catch you quickly and in the case of Falco, kill you before you realize that you're stock is under threat.
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Going after Nana all the time, contrary to popular belief, is not good. Good ICs will use her as bait and punish you. You don't want to go after her, only to have Popo WD downsmash you and end your stock (so what stab said about keeping tabs on popo while pushing Nana away is very smart).
Remember, though Nana is 90% of their damage, killing Popo ends the stock.
Remember, though Nana is 90% of their damage, killing Popo ends the stock.
ElloEddy
Smash Journeyman
when you separate them..remember nana comes to you if you stay in the middle and she's free ...only go for safe nana punishes and wait in the middle when you separate them and keep knocking her away
KP17
Banned via Administration
stab I definitely agree with you there. Im just racking my brains for any possible movement option to add to my positioning game because the main marth that I play is well ahead of me in skill level (Druggedfox). Although I lose to him not just because of predictable movement, its a huge huge factor, esp when playing someone who is quite literally just faster than you in every aspect of the game.
Bones0
Smash Legend
I played Druggedfox at Apex. His Marth is definitely ridiculous.
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dtilt is safe vs IC's? that sounds ridiculous lol am I missing something?
Bones0
Smash Legend
They slide pretty far from it, and I don't think they can WD OoS fast enough to grab you that way. I'm sure they could grab you if they shield DIed in though, which is why I don't feel particularly good about relying on it.
I like Dtilt vs ICs but it can't be the only answer. Make them fear a laser opening or make them jumpy with your lasers(grabs and movement and good spaced pressure can help with this) and Dtilt gets opened up and it makes life easier.
BTmoney
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Let me take this a step further, why isn't dtilt as viable in other MUs what makes it good specifically against ICs? Or is it viable and no one I know uses it?
KP17
Banned via Administration
most other characters with higher traction will punish you OOS
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
D-tilt is one of my favorite moves, esp. against floaties, and on lower ceiling stages. WD back D-tilt and laser D-tilt are two of my favorite tools against Puffs. I think it shines most whenever they have you pinned against the edge, because all of your other kill moves would send them across stage, D-tilt sends them to the ceiling, so it is a constant threat. You have to use it sparingly though, because she can jump over it.
ruhtraeel
Smash Ace
Alright, I noticed that Doc is my only matchup where I feel absolutely helpless as Falco. Does anyone have any tips for this matchup? I believe tournament videos got recorded so I will be posting here shortly
Especially the pills. I really don't know how to deal with them, and when I run in, I just get grabbed
Considering switching to Fox for this
Especially the pills. I really don't know how to deal with them, and when I run in, I just get grabbed
Considering switching to Fox for this
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
Nobody really needs to switch from Falco. He has the tools to beat any character, just try new things.
Regarding Doc specifically:
If he is caping you: If you have to SideB, vary your heights so he can't cape you. When you UpB, vary how high you go, he usually has to commit to covering a few angles, and the move has enough lag that if he guesses wrong, you'll be fine. Don't UpB too close to the stage so he can't get too close to you (the closer he is to you when he capes, the more options he can cover), if he does reach you, straight up usually is safe, since you can move toward the stage after your UpB. You should only die to capes maybe once, maybe less, per game.
If he is going for B-airs(or N-airs), you need to weave with your double jump, shine stalls, and sideB. Usually you don't want to be in your UpB. A old, but good trick is to jump in, fade back then SideB in. Try creative areas to land in (like on platforms) and don't be afraid to occasionally mix up an air-dodge(remember how fast you fall, so air dodging to the ledge usually isn't a good idea).
To deal with pills: while he is recovering, you can just B-air right through them, or go for invincible D-airs. If he is doing it as an approach, you can do several move to beat them, although they lag most of your moves, so it is best to do it with B-air since he can't just run in against it (it stays out). You can B-air into him to cover several options, or fade out if you think he is wanting you to fade in.
Lasers are amazing, as always, but if he already has some pills coming at you, don't go for them. You might want to use them for stopping him from getting momentum on you. You can also use them to poke at him whenever he is trying to get in, except him to try WD in, often.
You have much better vertical movement than he does. His maximum DJ height is about the height of BF's top platform, you FH height is just as high. So taking the top platform is very strong for you, since his only options are to go for an attack at the tip of his jump, go to a side platform, or simply land on the platform. Figure out what he wants to do, and you can punish accordingly. If you're just trying to get to neutral (after being pinned at the ledge or something), this platform is a good friend.
Beware he has a CG on you, so keep that in mind for your bans/strikes, etc. I personally would strike FD and FoD (I also simply dislike those stages), and would ban FD. Probably CP to PS or YS, whatever he didn't ban.
My only experience in this MU is against 2 state level players(around 10-15th best in Oregon), so if your opponent is good, he might have some tricks that I don't account for. (I also have some Falco vs Mario experience, against Eggz, but that was just him destroying my bird)
If there is anything specific, I can try to help.
Regarding Doc specifically:
If he is caping you: If you have to SideB, vary your heights so he can't cape you. When you UpB, vary how high you go, he usually has to commit to covering a few angles, and the move has enough lag that if he guesses wrong, you'll be fine. Don't UpB too close to the stage so he can't get too close to you (the closer he is to you when he capes, the more options he can cover), if he does reach you, straight up usually is safe, since you can move toward the stage after your UpB. You should only die to capes maybe once, maybe less, per game.
If he is going for B-airs(or N-airs), you need to weave with your double jump, shine stalls, and sideB. Usually you don't want to be in your UpB. A old, but good trick is to jump in, fade back then SideB in. Try creative areas to land in (like on platforms) and don't be afraid to occasionally mix up an air-dodge(remember how fast you fall, so air dodging to the ledge usually isn't a good idea).
To deal with pills: while he is recovering, you can just B-air right through them, or go for invincible D-airs. If he is doing it as an approach, you can do several move to beat them, although they lag most of your moves, so it is best to do it with B-air since he can't just run in against it (it stays out). You can B-air into him to cover several options, or fade out if you think he is wanting you to fade in.
Lasers are amazing, as always, but if he already has some pills coming at you, don't go for them. You might want to use them for stopping him from getting momentum on you. You can also use them to poke at him whenever he is trying to get in, except him to try WD in, often.
You have much better vertical movement than he does. His maximum DJ height is about the height of BF's top platform, you FH height is just as high. So taking the top platform is very strong for you, since his only options are to go for an attack at the tip of his jump, go to a side platform, or simply land on the platform. Figure out what he wants to do, and you can punish accordingly. If you're just trying to get to neutral (after being pinned at the ledge or something), this platform is a good friend.
Beware he has a CG on you, so keep that in mind for your bans/strikes, etc. I personally would strike FD and FoD (I also simply dislike those stages), and would ban FD. Probably CP to PS or YS, whatever he didn't ban.
My only experience in this MU is against 2 state level players(around 10-15th best in Oregon), so if your opponent is good, he might have some tricks that I don't account for. (I also have some Falco vs Mario experience, against Eggz, but that was just him destroying my bird)
If there is anything specific, I can try to help.
stabbedbyanipple
Smash Master
Falco ****s doc way harder than fox. Possibly one of doc's worst matchups. Shroomed always complains about it lol
Take advantage of the fact doc is not very good out of shield. By putting him in his shield with lasers you've given him a death sentence. Just don't early aerial directly on top of his shield or you will get usmashed lol
Edgeguarding is honestly very tough if they recover correctly. Best bet is grab ledge and invincible bair.
Shine isn't that good for comboing doc because it launches too far, you want to dair and utilt mainly.
For pills, try jumping over them or nairing through them.
Utilt pwns everything he can come down with except lateeee nair. Same with bair too actually.
Ban FD. No matter what.
Pretty simple matchup as long as you put him in his shield and catch him trying to act out of it. And don't drop simple combos.
Also, I finally beat eddy mexico today. Been getting closer with each set but at last was able to overcome this barrier.
ElloEddy
Smash Journeyman
http://www.twitch.tv/greenlightlive/b/401946041
would anyone mind watching some games and helping me out?
watch the matches between the green falco and shiek ..it start at .... 5:33:50
could i get some advice guys..... just tips and help vs sheik
would anyone mind watching some games and helping me out?
watch the matches between the green falco and shiek ..it start at .... 5:33:50
could i get some advice guys..... just tips and help vs sheik
It's better against ICs because their traction is lower, they have to stay grounded so it can catch them even if they move away, and it's a good alternative to typical shield pressure which is harder vs them.
It's safeish but not that great vs other characters because of the lag on Dtilt but vs ICs the reward of connecting or even pushing them away is pretty good.
KP17
Banned via Administration
Ive never played a good doc before but as far as edgeguarding:
can you grab ledge, drop down and rising nair/bair to beat pills then wd back to the ledge? Or if he is closer can you shine stall under the ledge then dj over pills then ff back to the ledge? And in theory would perfect firestalling beat his recovery? I feel like when falco's try to laser doc's recovery they give up the time they need to grab the ledge before they are in danger of getting up-B'd.
can you grab ledge, drop down and rising nair/bair to beat pills then wd back to the ledge? Or if he is closer can you shine stall under the ledge then dj over pills then ff back to the ledge? And in theory would perfect firestalling beat his recovery? I feel like when falco's try to laser doc's recovery they give up the time they need to grab the ledge before they are in danger of getting up-B'd.
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I'll give you more later but just from watching a few minutes, I saw a lot of early dairs on shield which are punishable on reaction (then you'd get nair'd OOS or grabbed). I for the most part feel that you should never be grabbed out of your opening sequence (i.e. your first hit on shield) so dair or nair lower to the ground and make sure to fast fall, I can't tell if you are really because of the frame rate on stream and I'm too lazy to rewatch right now, you probably are. I like how you switched to low lasers once he displayed the ability to power shield, that's always good. You did miss some fast falls from rising FH dairs and DJ rising dairs, yeah It's awkward but actively try not to miss them. And did you do that pivot turnaround-falloff edgeguard on purpose haha? that's so smooth and around 5:35:30 ish that was a really bad dair to return to stage, I'm sure you know that now though since you lost a stock for it. also hit your fast falls when you ledge hop dair. you looked pretty uncomfortable on his shield as a whole though
also can you shorten your illusion? it's sooo good (and easy once you can)
Rocketpowerchill
Smash Ace
ay i got some questions about shining on shields
when you double shine, how fast can you get your 2nd shine off cuz i want to avoid getting destroyed by shield stun
so here is an example of really fast shines and i was wondering how quick you gotta be to not get caught in your shine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=UAZYGgnKlA8#t=287s
when you double shine, how fast can you get your 2nd shine off cuz i want to avoid getting destroyed by shield stun
so here is an example of really fast shines and i was wondering how quick you gotta be to not get caught in your shine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=UAZYGgnKlA8#t=287s
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
That is flashy and all, but generally you have better options that are easier to perform.
(from memory, so only 90% sure)
If you shine, you can jump out of it on frame 4. After another 6 frames (for falco, 4 for Fox), you're out of jumpsquat, and need to shine again. Repeat. This is for doing them without hitting anything, hitlag, hitstun and shield stun mess with these.
The biggest problem with multishining is that you have to be frame perfect for it, and if you hit something vs. don't hit something, the timing changes based on the hitlag/shieldstun etc. These stats will also change based on how stale the move is.
You're probably better off with shine grab, shine -> early, spaced aerial, or shine -> late aerial.
Multishining is overrated and a waste of your time IMO. (which is backed by results, large scale and small scale)
(from memory, so only 90% sure)
If you shine, you can jump out of it on frame 4. After another 6 frames (for falco, 4 for Fox), you're out of jumpsquat, and need to shine again. Repeat. This is for doing them without hitting anything, hitlag, hitstun and shield stun mess with these.
The biggest problem with multishining is that you have to be frame perfect for it, and if you hit something vs. don't hit something, the timing changes based on the hitlag/shieldstun etc. These stats will also change based on how stale the move is.
You're probably better off with shine grab, shine -> early, spaced aerial, or shine -> late aerial.
Multishining is overrated and a waste of your time IMO. (which is backed by results, large scale and small scale)
FrootLoop
Smash Lord
If you are getting stuck in shine only on shields it means you're inputting jump too early while you're still in hitlag. You can practice this alone a number of ways: max handicap min damage ratio bowser is good. Giving stars to ganon in training mode is fine too.
There's way more useful stuff to learn than double shines on shield though, but moving asap out of shine is a must.
There's way more useful stuff to learn than double shines on shield though, but moving asap out of shine is a must.
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Just to chime in, starman invincibility gives more hitlag than hitting a shield or person
Rocketpowerchill
Smash Ace
yea thats why i just stick to standard dair shines but i will throw in a slow double shine or waveshine behind them as a good options too
just wondering how westballz is able to get a double shine then waveland down so quickly without getting stuck
just wondering how westballz is able to get a double shine then waveland down so quickly without getting stuck
G
genkaku
Guest
wetballz has insane techskill, that's how
[edit] not even going to change it to west
[edit] not even going to change it to west
Cummings
Smash Apprentice
I know a couple fox players with well above-average tech skill and it actually hinders their game at times. options are not better or worse depending on how difficult they are to execute. Multishines are a great example of that. As long as you can execute options that work, and do it consistently, you should be fine.
Also thanks to everyone who gave advice on the ICs matchup! really great stuff. I took notes and everything haha.
Also thanks to everyone who gave advice on the ICs matchup! really great stuff. I took notes and everything haha.
Xyzz
Smash Champion
Haha, I also kinda still have that problem with Falco.... there's just sooo many things to choose from, and then I sometimes end up overthinking it, doubting myself for a split second, which is well... far too long in melee :D
But I guess with enough practice having everything available to you will surely be beneficial. While it's indeed irrelevant how technically demanding a option is in terms of how good it is, the most technical might just be the most appropriate at times... and then I for one do want to be able to consistently do it (:
But I guess with enough practice having everything available to you will surely be beneficial. While it's indeed irrelevant how technically demanding a option is in terms of how good it is, the most technical might just be the most appropriate at times... and then I for one do want to be able to consistently do it (:
Rocketpowerchill
Smash Ace
it doesnt take insane tech skill to win, its just the stuff like advanced techs and double stick di that i havent learned yet, so much to learn and so many different mus and playstyles and thats why melee is loved
yo but wtf is with fox/falco dthrow? is it good
yo but wtf is with fox/falco dthrow? is it good
ElloEddy
Smash Journeyman
yeah
yeah im actually pretty technical lol. i can do it all shorten ..etc and i just suck at fastfalling full hop some times...i just dont like to play on sheiks shield though....since her nair out is like a shine outta shield , and if i mess up a bit imma get grabbed and im telling you this shiek is GOOD lol he;s top 3 sheik in tristate probably ..and shorten illusion is easy i just forget about it at times
oh the PC chris drop
yeah im actually pretty technical lol. i can do it all shorten ..etc and i just suck at fastfalling full hop some times...i just dont like to play on sheiks shield though....since her nair out is like a shine outta shield , and if i mess up a bit imma get grabbed and im telling you this shiek is GOOD lol he;s top 3 sheik in tristate probably ..and shorten illusion is easy i just forget about it at times
BTmoney
a l l b e c o m e $
honestly it looked like you would have beaten him if you were a tad more consistent, and yeah make sure to shorten more when you can. it's super hard to cover the shortened illusion to the ledge while covering everything else, if they do cover it then you can just choose to go high on reaction. be sure to not respect the opponent too much meaning don't be afraid of their shield, them being in shield is a good thing for you. if you don't want to open up with a low aerial (or shine) and fade away or cross up with an early aerial than just shine grab fthrow and laser them in the corner or uthrow and try to combo off it.
stabbedbyanipple
Smash Master
5:34:07 - to pillar combo sheik at zero, you want to immediate double jump above sheik after the shine and then fast fall the dair through her into shine/utilt. Don't full hop dair like that
The sheik landed on stage with whiffed aerials from the ledge at least a few times. You played it too conservatively and lasered or jabbed instead of going in on her (it was 100% open). Just be more aware of punishing whiffs, and don't be afraid just because you're playing a character with decent gimps near the ledge.
5:34:15 - Generally teching in place near the ledge is not the best idea unless you're comfortable DIing the follow ups into a position where you won't die or you're like 90% sure he wants to get your roll. Also, don't up B in horizontal needle range. I can't think of situation where that won't kill you
5:34:30 ish, he is doing literally the most unsafe sheik ledge stalling I've ever seen LOL. You could definitely apply some more pressure there or try to take the ledge
5:34:40 ish, lots of dropped combos. If you knock sheik onto the ground with dair, you can follow up with easy tech chase dairs/grabs or even immediately dash attack/turn around utilt
Yeah, like Tachi said, you shield pressure with pre-historically early aerials hahaha. You also overshoot a lot of aerials. That can definitely be a good idea sometimes but in this case you weren't really getting any thing. Try more run up shine when they're shielding in a close range, and also try more shinegrab. Shine grab is OP
5:34:50 - nice PC ledgehog. Dair/shine/utilt/run past -> dsmash/bair, just don't dtilt at that early of percent lol
5:35:05 - It feels like ur not 100% confident in applying pressure to him, because you default to running away and lasering a lot. Just gotta recognize when u can go in and lay a smackdown, because it's strictly better than going back to neutral when you don't have to
5:35:10 - When you throw them off at very early percent like that, you can basically expect a double jump aerial back onto the stage and catch it with bair. If they don't do that, the worst that will happen is that they'll just regrab the ledge, which is quite safe for sheik anyway.
5:35:20 ish - more approach anxiety lol. You get thrown off and double jump dair back onto the stage and die for it. That dair was bad because sheik was kinda far from you, and there was really not anything she could do there that would get her hit by that. Also in that position, you could have safely regrabbed the ledge. DJ dair is more for situations where the opponent is close to the ledge and you're relatively sure the opponent will come try to punish a jump back or a shine stall.
After that, you come back, you do another early dair, get thrown off for it but recover a bit better this time. You get some back airs but don't really get any big damage. If you late dair or shine them off the ground from standing then you'll set your self up much better for dair/shine or dair/utilt combos. With falco you really gotta maximize your punishes, he CAN win a poke war because he is good but it's harder and he often dies faster than most other characters so it's an uphill battle if you can't put big damage on them from combo starter
When you are getting tech chased and briefly get out, you gotta be smart about the evasive actions you take. You got out for a little bit on last stock but kept shielding and spot dodged when she walked up to you. That was pretty clearly a bad idea but it's not always so obvious what's a bad move and what isn't. Honestly it just takes experience and a little luck when you're getting tech chased but remember you have full hop/roll/wd oos as defensive options and a plethora of quick offensive options you can do
You don't have to incorporate all this **** at once (in fact that's probably not a good idea lol), but keep it in mind and try to work on it one at a time. Big overall problems I'd identify that probably carry over to other matchups would be your combo game needs work, your approach not so good and your shield pressure suffers because of it since you can't initiate in a safe way
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
Double stick DI isn't a huge deal, Dthrow sucks because everyone can react and tech it, and it has enough lag that you can't do much with it after they tech.
Tech skill is overrated.
Ironic that ElloEddy is talking about pivot ledgegrab while we're talking about how sometimes technical options aren't always the best option. Also, I think 'I can do it all' is a little cocky.
Tech skill is overrated.
Ironic that ElloEddy is talking about pivot ledgegrab while we're talking about how sometimes technical options aren't always the best option. Also, I think 'I can do it all' is a little cocky.
Rocketpowerchill
Smash Ace
when should you shield drop as the best option oos on plats
Captain Smuckers
Smash Journeyman
Actually, from my experience he's probably like the 2nd best shield dropper in NYC. He's not perfect at it, but compared to most people that play the game, he's good at it
Edit: ninja edit lol, yeah it probably was cocky
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
Whenever you think they don't want you down there. If you're shielding because you think they'll come up with an aerial, you can drop down, and now you're below them with the stage control, and they're trying to get down. If they poke at the bottom of your shield(with aerials), you can do it to hit them on their way back down. If you're on a side platform and they're poking you with tilts or something, you can then come down with an aerial or simply land.
For Falco, this is one of his greatest tools against Marth IMO. Since he can't do anything from above you really, and he benefits so much when you're above him, it is great to change positioning. It also forces him to be more cautious against your shield on platforms. (He can't simply spam U-tilt hoping for a poke).
Once you get better at it you can use it even more situations, like when they're on your level. Shield drop B-air is a cool punish that is sometimes better than SH B-air. (It is faster and ends with you being lower than the opponent.
For Falco, this is one of his greatest tools against Marth IMO. Since he can't do anything from above you really, and he benefits so much when you're above him, it is great to change positioning. It also forces him to be more cautious against your shield on platforms. (He can't simply spam U-tilt hoping for a poke).
Once you get better at it you can use it even more situations, like when they're on your level. Shield drop B-air is a cool punish that is sometimes better than SH B-air. (It is faster and ends with you being lower than the opponent.
stabbedbyanipple
Smash Master
WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH, hold up there. That is waaaayyyyy too big of a generalization!
While you may not need perfect turn around platform waveshines or perfect shai drops, tech skill is still very important. Not missing your ledge wavedashes, not getting stuck in your shine, not lasering in the wrong direction and many other things both obvious and subtle require tech skill. Simply put, the less you **** up, the better off you are.
Now do you need axe-status shield drops, or wes-status double shine wavelands? Not necessarily but they do add more options to your game, and if you have the tech skill to do these things without ****ing up then that's an edge you have on your opponent!
I think a more apt and true statement is that n00bs care about learning all these really specific technical things more than they care about learning the actual fundamentals of playing Falco lol.
edit: Perfect example of this = Rocketpowerchill. There are a lot more people like this on the boards, but I've literally only ever seen him post here about westballz shines and shield drops LMAOOOOOOOOO