PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Purpletuce]

Damn elloeddy, do you want a higher post count or something?

 

[Vixen]

@Elloeddy: SO MUCH HYPE. <3 Can't wait to see Shelly again. c:

To the falco bros I played with at Zenith: You're all awesome. :3

 

[JU4N]

and stop light shielding so much please.... its useful but for certain situations... as falco you should not block that much anyway ...im working on it myself

Thanks for the (many!) replies.

It's definitely possible that my mentality changed, I may have become more defensive. I was light-shielding partly out of nervousness and partly on accident >_>. Good observation about the jumping into his off-edge nairs (and needles), that got me more times than it should have. I'll be careful about u-tilts and will try to work around Sheik's shield better.

I would go out to events in Nassau and stuff, but I actually left NY already to go move down south...but maybe I'll see ya around some time anyway.

 

[ElloEddy]

Damn elloeddy, do you want a higher post count or something?

idk how to muti quote =/ honestly lol .

 

[Vixen]

i usually open a new quote in a new tab, then cut/paste the quotes in to one post, haha.

 

[BTmoney]

idk how to muti quote =/ honestly lol .

if it's on the same page just push reply on every post you want to quote

 

[stabbedbyanipple]

Damn elloeddy, do you want a higher post count or something?

post count > how many b1.tches u fuccked

Random two things I now like to do vs samus now that I picked up from playing secondaries

Dair -> dair over and over again. Got this idea from continually stomping samus as Falcon. Easiest way to rack up significant damage off a hit vs her imo

SHFFL Fair -> Uair or Dair (LOL). If you do the fair right at higher percent it will pop her up into a perfect spot for uair/dair. Not 100% on the uses for this but it's hilarious and stylish. Thought of this while messing around with fox. It's way more useful with him though imo cuz it actually kills at good percent.

 

[Vixen]

I got to do the dair thing vs Nut at Zenith. It works if you alter the dair timing. :3

 

[BTmoney]

Can you out prioritize/space Fox's FH nair (on the falling half) after the hitboxes have been out for a while with your own (SH) nair?

Or do you just have to avoid it or utilt?

 

[KP17]

up tilt has much less risk of trading or losing. fox and falco's nair doesnt really cover the top part of their hurtboxes that well. If you look at the hitbox thread you can see what I mean, and that is even with the hitboxes being stretched upwards due to falling. I would either avoid it and punish fox's landing or try to beat it with uptilt.

 

[BTmoney]

Well I'm not assessing the risk right now. It is a lot easier to nair to protect your dash dance/space rather than pivot up tilting because realistically you won't be standing still or walking to be able to utilt everything you want to utilt. You also can probably stuff Fox's FH nair on reaction with this, if this does beat it.

Yeah I understand that the hitboxes are stretched since you're falling but either way there is some slight disjoint above Falco's foot and you can see Fox isn't very well protected underneath him as he comes down with nair

The most important thing I am trying to see is whether or not a Falco nair that is just coming out has more priority than a Fox nair that has already been out.

 

[Strong Badam]

you can outspace it if that's your question. there's not some constantly changing variable that determines priority; it's entirely based on hitbox placement relative to hurtbox placement. using nair is probably a bad idea though. shine would do better.

 

[BTmoney]

you can outspace it if that's your question. there's not some constantly changing variable that determines priority; it's entirely based on hitbox placement relative to hurtbox placement. using nair is probably a bad idea though. shine would do better.

Then I suppose it's just perceived, and not actually true, that the weaker hitboxes on moves seem to have less priority

 

[Purpletuce]

SB, I believe I've noticed that priority changes by strength of the move(staleness), or which hitbox is out (strong/early vs weak/late). Are you saying this isn't true? I'm going to retract my previous claim until I understand what you're saying.

 

[Bones0]

you can outspace it if that's your question. there's not some constantly changing variable that determines priority; it's entirely based on hitbox placement relative to hurtbox placement. using nair is probably a bad idea though. shine would do better.

Shining to outright beat their nair from above will basically never work. The hitbox is awful. Only Fox can pull off that **** unless you're talking about CC shine, but that wasn't really the question. I think the best course of action vs. nair is to trade with utilt or bair if it's in your favor (if they are at KO percents and/or you won't get knocked down). Otherwise, just avoid the nair. Avoiding FH nairs isn't even that hard. Just WDDD backwards (or forwards, under them if they have dash momentum) and be ready to punish their landing with an aerial, laser, or grab.

If you really want to try outprioritizing it with something other than utilt or bair, you should try usmash or fair. FF your aerial before he reaches you to increase its priority, and hard-press your L-cancel so you will at least tech in place if you trade. Missing techs vs. Fox leads to hella stupid usmash kills from tech chases.

 

[BTmoney]

**** falco, I'm playing Fox now

edit:
So maybe I'll change my avatar to Rigby since he's more Fox like than Mordecai

 

[Dr Peepee]

Reverse shine is actually pretty good at stopping FH Nair from Fox. Uptilt works better but shine can combo more so do what you can get in position for lol.

Otherwise I'd probably just laser his landing and get him.

 

[Bones0]

How in the world is this going to stop a FH nair? lol

 

[stabbedbyanipple]

Definitely out right beat falling nair/dair with shine before. Only done it a few times, and I honestly don't know the timing for it but Fiction once told me DEHF could do it consistently, so I guess it's possible. If it's nair you could just CC shine a falling one anyway I think

 

[Bones0]

Definitely out right beat falling nair/dair with shine before. Only done it a few times, and I honestly don't know the timing for it but Fiction once told me DEHF could do it consistently, so I guess it's possible. If it's nair you could just CC shine a falling one anyway I think

Yeah, I mentioned before that CCing FH nair is a great choice if you're not too high of a percent to do it. If you are too high and need to beat it straight up without trading, you probably have to be frame perfect. Even with the hitbox drag on a FF nair, it is still probably more disjointed than shine.

 

[Voltz]

yo


pops- peach (gay)

What?

 

[Dr Peepee]

lol bones I can't explain it I've just done it and seen it done(back part of shine helps tho)

Nair does get smaller after it stays out too so that helps.

 

[Bones0]

lol bones I can't explain it I've just done it and seen it done(back part of shine helps tho)

Nair does get smaller after it stays out too so that helps.

It does? >.>

I thought about it more, and I wasn't taking into account that Falco can crouch below the nair and then, upon shining, immediately raise his hitbox higher than his hurtbox the frame before (not unlike Jiggs resting grabs after she crouches under one). I was imagining Falco shining from a standing position which obviously means the timing would be a lot tighter. I guess I'll try it out next time I play.

 

[Voltz]

I think SH Upair to FH Upair is a good string on floaties.

And I also feel like bair spam can screw with them as well.

 

[Bones0]

You usually won't land two uairs on a floaty because they can DI it, but if they don't you can uair after a SH uair, but also FH uair into DJ uair.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Well I really thought it did......wtf

it sure SEEMS like it lol

this game is weird

 

[Bones0]

Well I really thought it did......wtf

it sure SEEMS like it lol

this game is weird

Don't feel bad, no one knows everything about Melee.

I just watched a match earlier today that Hbox was commentating on, and he was asking if anyone knew how Falco's dair worked and whether or not you could DI it. lol

 

[BTmoney]

^^that's actually funny

 

[unknown522]

lol yeah that really is funny

 

[Divinokage]

It does? >.>

I thought about it more, and I wasn't taking into account that Falco can crouch below the nair and then, upon shining, immediately raise his hitbox higher than his hurtbox the frame before (not unlike Jiggs resting grabs after she crouches under one). I was imagining Falco shining from a standing position which obviously means the timing would be a lot tighter. I guess I'll try it out next time I play.

Ya Fox can do it too actually to many aerials. It's a good trick to stop momentum and start yours, I use it every opportunity I get, it's quite good for setups. Have you been paying attention to Javi at Apex 2012? He uses it too.

 

[Purpletuce]

Not sure, but this might be why Fox/Falco can stuff aerials with shine. . . Shine gives invincibility and puts out a hitbox on one frame, and if you're trying to beat a Fox falling late N-air, Fox will be falling pretty fast. I believe the game doesn't register anything that happens between frames, so when you're dealing with something like a falling Fox, Fox might have a teleport effect, so on one frame his hitbox is still above the opponent, and on the next frame, he is far in enough that his hurtbox is within the hitbox range of the shine, and because of the invincibility, loses the trade. . . Naturally, as Bones pointed out, crouching would make this easier to pull off, even if it is only crouching a frame before you shine.

Not sure. . . seems to make sense to me.

 

[Bones0]

Ya Fox can do it too actually to many aerials. It's a good trick to stop momentum and start yours, I use it every opportunity I get, it's quite good for setups. Have you been paying attention to Javi at Apex 2012? He uses it too.

Yeah, I've seen Foxes use it quite often, but Fox has WAY more priority on his shine than Falco.

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

actually a little history behind javi

when javi had just started to become the player he is today, he was in GF at a local,
fox dittos
no items
final destination
set went 2-2 and then in game 5 last stock, javis opponent messed up a ledge dash, then rage quitted, picked up javis controller and slammed it on the ground. smash career ended that day. GGs no hand shake doe

javi picked up his controller and his shield button was hella jammed in and he was ****ed. this man thought he cudnt roll, shield or even l cancel

javi switched to l for his lcancels but he lacked his shield. and thats where the shine's intended purpose came in.
ever since javi has been shining more than anyone and thats why you here so many clanks at apex.

 

[The Business]

actually a little history behind javi

when javi had just started to become the player he is today, he was in GF at a local,
fox dittos
no items
final destination
set went 2-2 and then in game 5 last stock, javis opponent messed up a ledge dash, then rage quitted, picked up javis controller and slammed it on the ground. smash career ended that day. GGs no hand shake doe

javi picked up his controller and his shield button was hella jammed in and he was ****ed. this man thought he cudnt roll, shield or even l cancel

javi switched to l for his lcancels but he lacked his shield. and thats where the shine's intended purpose came in.
ever since javi has been shining more than anyone and thats why you here so many clanks at apex.

mexico will beat your controller down?

 

[Vixen]

I usually just usmash to anti air fair.

Sent from my SPH-L300 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

thats actually part of the reason why javi tried to use his shine as a shield
i was amazed at the credibilty of this story but i heard it on stream from CT_zero, dont know why melee south of the border is so full of secrets
and considering ctzero is like in chile? no? javi the man though

 

[PCwizCube]

I have a question about one of the moves Dr PP does in his combo video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyoPeoMRBE8&t=1m42s

At 1:45, when Falco and C. Falcon are on the right platform, PP does a dair immediately from the platform. What is that and how do you do it? I've seen a lot of falcos do this, and I thought it might've been a shield drop aerial, but when I looked at it frame by frame all I saw was crouch -> dair.

 

[The Business]

I have a question about one of the moves Dr PP does in his combo video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyoPeoMRBE8&t=1m42s

At 1:45, when Falco and C. Falcon are on the right platform, PP does a dair immediately from the platform. What is that and how do you do it? I've seen a lot of falcos do this, and I thought it might've been a shield drop aerial, but when I looked at it frame by frame all I saw was crouch -> dair.

you just fall through the platform and dair. pp did it pretty much frame perfect in that video though.

 

[BTmoney]

I have a question about one of the moves Dr PP does in his combo video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyoPeoMRBE8&t=1m42s

At 1:45, when Falco and C. Falcon are on the right platform, PP does a dair immediately from the platform. What is that and how do you do it? I've seen a lot of falcos do this, and I thought it might've been a shield drop aerial, but when I looked at it frame by frame all I saw was crouch -> dair.

you just fall through the platform and dair. pp did it pretty much frame perfect in that video though.

Not exactly, that is not frame tight at all. Dair is simply low range horizontally and if you can't do this then you either aren't close enough or you're being super slow. But yes he simply crouched to fall through the platform and dair'd.

 

[PCwizCube]

Not exactly, that is not frame tight at all. Dair is simply low range horizontally and if you can't do this then you either aren't close enough or you're being super slow. But yes he simply crouched to fall through the platform and dair'd.

Oh okay, thanks. It's just that when I looked at the video frame by frame, he started dairing above the platform, at the same position where he had been standing (so his head was higher than it was when he was crouching). I didn't know if you did it quick enough it would look like that. Thanks.

Also what buttons do most people use for shine out of shield? I do shield > x > down b (x and down b with my thumbs), but I don't do it fast enough so instead of shining during or like a frame after jump squat, I shine when I'm already a significant distance in the air (and I'm using falco). Is my thumb just moving too slow or do people usually use other buttons (like up for jump)?