PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Purpletuce]

You could always try using my super-duper Falco ditto strat (from a Yoshi main who is really bad at Falco.)

Step 1: Do awkward defensiveish things like WD back F-tilt, jump off stage and then land with B-air or running away on platforms -> your shield for no reason. (Generally put them in situations they aren't accustomed to/prepared for)

Step 2: Wait for the Falco to overextend/botch spacing/be bad.

Step 3: Shine and stuff.

Bonus points: Intentionally mess up tech skill to make them think you're bad and make them frustrated for losing. (shine without jumping out or standing lasers.)

Repeat.

 

[Vixen]

http://www.twitch.tv/vmundimizuki/b/360045803 Friendlies with Silly Kyle. Any critique?

 

[ruhtraeel]

Hi,
Long story short: I like playing against Marth, but I suck at it, and no matter how much I study PP videos, I still can't do it.
It feels like this is the only matchup where I don't learn anything by watching people play.

We held a charity MM event, and I got 3-0'ed by a Marth.

There were a couple things I know I did wrong, like turn around laser into immediate approach predictability as well as double jumping when I shouldn't have, but can I get some critique plz

http://www.twitch.tv/calgarysmash/b/360368391
The matches start at 1:53:10

I realized that I rolled very predictably.

Also, my main problem, I crack really really easily during tournaments and such. What are some tips to not get nervous before matches that count?

 

[genkaku]

Hi,
Long story short: I like playing against Marth, but I suck at it, and no matter how much I study PP videos, I still can't do it.

We held a charity MM event, and I got 3-0'ed by a Marth.

There were a couple things I know I did wrong, like turn around laser into immediate approach predictability as well as double jumping when I shouldn't have, but can I get some critique plz

http://www.twitch.tv/calgarysmash/b/360368391
The matches start at 1:53:10

I realized that I rolled very predictably.

Also, my main problem, I crack really really easily during tournaments and such. What are some tips to not get nervous before matches that count?

make sure that you aren't reacting in ways that let the other guy convert a stray hit into your stock for free. That happened a lot. You get nicked and then all of your decisions are super unsafe for like 3 seconds.

 

[Bones0]

Hi,
Long story short: I like playing against Marth, but I suck at it, and no matter how much I study PP videos, I still can't do it.
It feels like this is the only matchup where I don't learn anything by watching people play.

We held a charity MM event, and I got 3-0'ed by a Marth.

There were a couple things I know I did wrong, like turn around laser into immediate approach predictability as well as double jumping when I shouldn't have, but can I get some critique plz

http://www.twitch.tv/calgarysmash/b/360368391
The matches start at 1:53:10

I realized that I rolled very predictably.

Also, my main problem, I crack really really easily during tournaments and such. What are some tips to not get nervous before matches that count?

Watch Unknown vs. M2K. Even with Fox, he does a lot of stuff you can incorporate with Falco. Most people who suck vs. Marth are missing a lot of simple options like dash away, WD towards them with utilt, or they try to laser in positions where they should be DDing. It's also a matchup where you absolutely must pay attention to them when you're DDing. If you just DD and get faired OoS, it's because you weren't paying attention to your spacing well enough. Stay out of tipper fair range, and pounce on him when commits (and whifs). If he just stays on the ground, then that's your cue to use more lasers to push him back and limit his space until he either has to jump or rush you. Marth's horrible at both of those, so just pick your favorite broken Falco hitbox (dair/bair) and use it. I'll critique your actual gameplay in a minute.

 

[Bones0]

Whoops .

 

[Life]

Also, my main problem, I crack really really easily during tournaments and such. What are some tips to not get nervous before matches that count?

I'm a music major, so I perform on stage pretty frequently, so I know a thing or two about this.

First, performing is easier when you're well-practiced. In Smash terms, show up early and get a whole bunch of friendlies in before the tournament. Try to do as many casual smashfests as you can. Work on techskill whenever you get a few free minutes. Basically, play a lot--same way you'd improve at everything else.

Second, try to channel your nervousness into a positive benefit. I can't really explain how to work on this, it's just a mindset to adopt.

The third thing is about facing someone better than you. Nobody in this game is invincible, remember that. If you're a mid-level player, it's entirely possible that somebody that you built up as a top-level player in your mind isn't one. And if it's really a large skill gap (me vs. M2K for instance), then you know the ultimate outcome--why worry about it? Just set a goal of taking a certain number of stocks off of them (more than the last time, if it's not your first time playing that person--so you can work your way up). Don't worry about winning against the best until you're winning against everyone else. Sorting Algorithm of Smashers, if you know what I mean. Set up a hitlist of sorts--a list of people you want to beat, roughly in order of least to most difficult.

And on that note, get a rival or two. Someone who usually places similarly to you, someone who plays a character that gives you trouble, someone you practice with, a friend you met outside of Smash--basically, anyone of similar skill level that you have a reason to want to be better than. Instant motivation--and motivation trumps nervousness every time.

 

[Bones0]

Instant motivation--and motivation trumps nervousness every time.

Hmmm, this gives me the idea to put the Pokemon theme song on my MP3 and listen to it before every tournament match now. How can you not be motivated after hearing that? :D

 

[Wenbobular]

I can't believe stack it up doesn't refer to catfish

 

[SK919]

Yo, guys I'm trying to sort out my options in the falco ditto. At the moment I just try to react to moments where I can get my laser out and combo as effetively as I can.

Though I am very ignorant of the neutral position; I was wondering you guys could help me by pointing out all the key tools that take priority in this match up. I know the basics.. shine out of shield and aerials out of shield if they hit your shield too high. Though in terms of counter attacks i'm ignorant.

 

[Voltz]

Hmmm, this gives me the idea to put the Pokemon theme song on my MP3 and listen to it before every tournament match now. How can you not be motivated after hearing that? :D

It would not help AGAINST a Pokemon, though.

 

[Life]

There aren't any good Pokemon in this game anyway (Jiggs excepted, as well as Axe-achu and one or two Mewtwos).



Mars from Holst's The Planets is a good motivator (don't like classical? Too bad, listen anyway, it's hardcore)

 

[Vixen]

Yo, guys I'm trying to sort out my options in the falco ditto. At the moment I just try to react to moments where I can get my laser out and combo as effetively as I can.

Though I am very ignorant of the neutral position; I was wondering you guys could help me by pointing out all the key tools that take priority in this match up. I know the basics.. shine out of shield and aerials out of shield if they hit your shield too high. Though in terms of counter attacks i'm ignorant.

I began to learn this just recently from talking with Axe and studying him and West play.

When in neutral, sometimes you can just run up to them, and crouch in their face when they try to attack you. At low percent, you can shine anything they do short of grab.

When they are lasering you, and you're already in your shield, you can throw out a hitbox, like a short hop nair, or full jump away. (c stick up makes this easier)

When in neutral and you're not shielding, but there's a laser out and you can't retreat, I still go for the counter attack. I either ftilt, or do a short hop nair and space depending on where they're headed with their attack.

PP mentioned earlier that putting out attacks to make your opponent rethink their offense can give you the edge you need in a match up where being on the offense is generally advantageous.

 

[Bones0]

It would not help AGAINST a Pokemon, though.

Why not? To catch them is my real test. To train them is my cause.

 

[ruhtraeel]

Wow, I lasered to n-air a LOT.

That's uncharacteristic of me, I almost always laser to grab

 

[Voltz]

Why not? To catch them is my real test. To train them is my cause.

Well, that would motivate the opposing player, because they are training a Pokemon.

 

[Stevo]

Wow, I lasered to n-air a LOT.

That's uncharacteristic of me, I almost always laser to grab

I think lots of it was your nerves getting to you cause it was a "money match" against a player you lose to a lot.

 

[Voltz]

Falco's (and Fox's) shine is so broken as a deflector.

 

[knightpraetor]

So i practiced falco dittos a lot and have a lot of footage to share, soon.

I've been taking the axe approach to falco dittos. lots of counterattacking. if they have a laser out, put out a hitbox for them to think about. If you're at low %, crouch a lot, even run at them and dash cancel. WD shines as a counter attack the way Javi does, etc. It works so well, that I was beating the local players just by spamming technical skill. It's pretty absurd, and I started to practice it in other situations vs better players.

Gotta learn to fit in those options with my more consistent playstyle.

this is offtopic, but your post made me think about how amazingly good this works in marth vs falco. If i hadn't switched mains i would be experimenting with more of this rather than stupidly shielding like most marths do

 

[stabbedbyanipple]

So how do you guys deal with Foxes that are tricky with how they get off platforms and don't commit easily to any given option? This honestly doesn't feel like a problem vs most foxes, but good foxes that vary how they get off the platforms, and know how to avoid the many simple baits that will get them punished make it feel like having center stage is not as beneficial of a situation as it should be

I guess worded differently, I'm asking how you get smart foxes to fall into your Utilt LOL

Hi,
Long story short: I like playing against Marth, but I suck at it, and no matter how much I study PP videos, I still can't do it.
It feels like this is the only matchup where I don't learn anything by watching people play.

We held a charity MM event, and I got 3-0'ed by a Marth.

There were a couple things I know I did wrong, like turn around laser into immediate approach predictability as well as double jumping when I shouldn't have, but can I get some critique plz

http://www.twitch.tv/calgarysmash/b/360368391
The matches start at 1:53:10

I realized that I rolled very predictably.

Also, my main problem, I crack really really easily during tournaments and such. What are some tips to not get nervous before matches that count?

you don't combo him at all, and need to apply simple stuff like dair -> utilt more

you shoot a million lasers, but only really cover the roll, and never deal with the dash attack they do to try and catch you when you're dashing away

You almost always elect to dash away and laser instead of interacting with his shield and applying pressure. I'm NOT telling you to extend yourself and jump at him like a dumbie (because that is what marth wants most), but if you pay attention you can often find times to get onto marth's shield and apply pressure.

Patch up your tech skill. You need it for tighter shield pressure, smoother movement and more consistency on your punish attempts

 

[Bones0]

Your move, Kevin Nanney.

 

[Dr Peepee]

So how do you guys deal with Foxes that are tricky with how they get off platforms and don't commit easily to any given option? This honestly doesn't feel like a problem vs most foxes, but good foxes that vary how they get off the platforms, and know how to avoid the many simple baits that will get them punished make it feel like having center stage is not as beneficial of a situation as it should be

I guess worded differently, I'm asking how you get smart foxes to fall into your Utilt LOL

First of all, learn the options and figure out ways to counter multiple ones at once. Best way to handle these broad problems.

I like mixing between feigning some Utilt, FH'ing to keep them from moving, shine waveland/DJ to catch them moving or push them away when you move in, or SH/DJ Bair to keep the Fox moving from the platform. Any aggressive play makes them more apt to move next time and that leads you back to Utilt. Don't be afraid to press your advantages Falco has big moves esp vs Fox.

Your move, Kevin Nanney.

LMFAO

I've made this stupid name for myself why change it now?

But I mean if I gotta change it you all will certainly get something good

 

[Vixen]

inb4 terrible name #2.

 

[Xyzz]

Do you mean stabbedbyanipple#2? :D

 

[genkaku]

where did stabbedbyahippie even come from?

 

[Bones0]

h looks like n, and i looks like l.

 

[genkaku]

no, I mean originally
it's a very strange cool name, haha

 

[Xyzz]

Iirc Stab got told by a friend he'd get 5$ or something if he abandoned his high postcount acc called stabbedbyahippie and created a new one (which is the one he uses right now) and afaik he has never been looking back ever since :D

 

[ElloEddy]

heya falco's ...i was wondering if i could get some advice ...how to shine oos better =/ since it would be super helpful for falco dittos which i suck at :-{..... and shine oos is the most important thing in that matchup in my opinion ..i haven't been playing for to long so i might be wrong but shine oos really ****s me up

( imma make this a thread cause i think some more falco help ...matchup discussions would be nice )

btw rate/comment/help my falco i could use the tips heres some matches

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2GDjr1e-Iw

2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A40HLNV29wc

 

[Bones0]

Critique

I have videos of my worst tournament performance in a long time. Ironically, I didn't actually lose any games as Falco... I won 4 games of Falco vs. Fox, and I went Fox/Marth vs. Peach and Fox vs. ICs, and lost all 4 of those games. I think I may just start going all Falco regardless of the matchup, at least until I get better. I honestly am not sure at this point.

Stream
2:14:25 - Bones (Falco) vs. HeyIt'sYo (Fox)
3:03:25 - Bones (Falco) vs. Cyrain (Falco) [friendly]
3:09:45 - Bones (Fox/Marth) vs. DoH (Peach)

 

[knightpraetor]

the vs peach i can understand..but why switch vs IC, that's really weird

 

[stabbedbyanipple]

Thanks a bunch pp

And pretty much what xyzz said

 

[Bones0]

Lasers don't seem to help me at all in that matchup, and I just die from every single hit. I don't think the matchup's super bad or anything, but Fox just seems much more straightforward which makes a huge difference since I have no idea how to play the matchup in the first place. It just seems way easier to plat camp and fish for shine spikes and Nana gimps than it is to avoid all 10 million gimmicks straight up as Falco, and then I still have to punish consistently once I do get a hit. I thought this switch was pretty common. I had more than few people agree with my decision to go Fox instead (both vs. ICs and Peach). Ideally I'd just learn the matchups with everyone, but I just don't have the opportunities to practice 3x more than I would if I went Falco, and I refuse to just stop practicing Falco in a matchup because then I'm liable to get cped and won't know what to do. If I win game 1 and someone goes Peach or some other character, I don't want to just think "well, I lost this game because I have never played Falco vs. Peach".

 

[Life]

heya falco's ...i was wondering if i could get some advice ...how to shine oos better =/ since it would be super helpful for falco dittos which i suck at :-{..... and shine oos is the most important thing in that matchup in my opinion ..i haven't been playing for to long so i might be wrong but shine oos really ****s me up

Can you double shine? It's the same thing, but while holding shield. Once you can do that it's just a matter of being able to react/think fast enough to make use of it. Check the multishine guide for more info.

 

[ruhtraeel]

Can you double shine? It's the same thing, but while holding shield. Once you can do that it's just a matter of being able to react/think fast enough to make use of it. Check the multishine guide for more info.

I found that you need to pay attention to the hitstun on your shield as well, at least when you shine oos without leaving the ground, as I can do it with no pressure on shield but end up buffering a spotdodge when there is

 

[Life]

Generally I find I can't react quickly enough where shield hitlag would cause a problem but that will probably come with practice.

 

[Xyzz]

I found a fun problem why I have trouble getting grounded shine OOS (I'm pretty consistent with double shine stuff)...
I shield with the right trigger and change my hand-position on the controller a little when pressing the tigger, which causes me to either go too slow or hit the 'a'-button on the way to 'b' (JC grab oos = best move!).
Well, I wanted to get comfortable with shielding with the L trigger anyways for a variety of reasons, so I guess here's one more to actually start working on that ...

 

[ruhtraeel]

I found a fun problem why I have trouble getting grounded shine OOS (I'm pretty consistent with double shine stuff)...
I shield with the right trigger and change my hand-position on the controller a little when pressing the tigger, which causes me to either go too slow or hit the 'a'-button on the way to 'b' (JC grab oos = best move!).
Well, I wanted to get comfortable with shielding with the L trigger anyways for a variety of reasons, so I guess here's one more to actually start working on that ...

I found the easiest way for me by far to doubleshine and grounded shine oos since I use X to jump is to claw and move my index finger from Z to Y and using the side of it to press Y

 

[SK919]

Anyone got any tips on using downsmash invincibility to edge gaurd marth?

I'm not sure if this is legit. I've been told that downsmash can be used as a consistent edge gaurd on some stages.. if someone could elaborate for me that would really help me. I'm really inconsistent with this tool if it's real

 

[Bones0]

Dsmash is a good edgeguard, but not because of the invincibility. At low percents you can simply CC dsmash, and at higher percents you can just walk up as his up-B peaks and dsmash. You just have to be slow enough to avoid the hitbox, but fast enough to hit him before he grabs the ledge.

Grabbing the ledge is still better if you can do it fast enough, though. Dsmash is prone to teching, plus if they space far away from the ledge you have to walk really far up, which then leaves you open for them to curl the up-B into you to hit you. The Marth-killer edgeguard (where you shield DI his up-B onto the ledge) is usually much better for any situation where you would want to dsmash. Again, it's largely based on how much time you have to get to the ledge. I would prefer grabbing the ledge, Marth-killer, and simply trading with a dair all before walk up dsmash. Dsmashing is just often way easier for pretty much the same effectiveness (key phrase being "pretty much").